25 réponses à ce sujet

[fwb]

So in the main campaign my dual dagger rogue *needs* guard on hit to be viable at high levels. Are there guard on hit items available for the assassin class in multiplayer? Or should I just stop leveling one now?

[Chaz Darkbane]

Can you explain to my why the guy who is supposed to turn invisible needs guard? Use stealth to creep on enemies, stab them for an instant kill and have your stealth reset instantly. If you need more stealth use the flank attack perked out to get stealth after it hits.

 

Personally I run Stealth, Twin Fangs, HIdden Blades and Flank Attack.

[fwb]

Can you explain to me whether or not there's any rogue equipment in multiplayer that provides guard on hit? I don't care how you play your assassin. I like my rogue being able to self heal. So if you have any insight into that, please share.

[Sephlezar]

Can you explain to me how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

I haven't seen any guard on hit daggers or items for the rouge class in 100+ hours. The multiplayer was very role based so I doubt you will see anything like this in the future because traditionally rouges rely on stealth for survivability not guard, that is more of a melee/tank thing.

[Torkelight]

+10 or +5 heal on kill ring. Or both.

Other than that assassins are supposed to use stealth and avoid aggro. If you do it right, you will rarely take any damage. Having guard doesnt really suit assassin, and doesnt fit the actual gameplay at all. Lots of weapons give guard but they are warrior only. I'm pretty sure there will never be a weapon or item that gives assassin guard.

[TheThirdRace]

No, there's nothing with "guard on hit" for Assassins.

 

The reason one would like "guard on hit" is to avoid bursting into flames when a little demon shoots you. As long as you have guard or barrier, you won't take damage for those effects. Even if Stealth allows you to shed those status effect, the reaction time won't be fast enough to avoid damaging your HP. Guard on hit will give you that leeway, it has nothing to do with "tanking"... And who would be dumb enough to say no to having free guard or barrier on his character?

[russ4ua16]

I promoted my archer nine times before I got tired of having no survivability. Now I play an elementalist. With some cool down reduction I can keep an entire group protected with barriers non stop.
Rouges need more survival. Parry should be a passive for all rogue classes. Also the dodge passive needs to be better.

[TheThirdRace]

Rouges need more survival. Parry should be a passive for all rogue classes. Also the dodge passive needs to be better.

Rogues are plenty fine when you're not the first to draw aggro and position yourself correctly. Also, when you finally are geared correctly the enemies will die before getting to you. No need for any more "survival", even on Perilous.

The dodge passive is really bad though and should be buffed to at least 20%, it's not like being hit 5 times could kill you right!

[russ4ua16]

Rogues are plenty fine when you're not the first to draw aggro and position yourself correctly. Also, when you finally are geared correctly the enemies will die before getting to you. No need for any more "survival", even on Perilous.The dodge passive is really bad though and should be buffed to at least 20%, it's not like being hit 5 times could kill you right!

Hate to sound childish but - isn't it unfair for mages to be nearly immortal while rogues have to wait on the fight to start and hope they don't get flanked?

[Trickshaw]

Can you explain to my why the guy who is supposed to turn invisible needs guard?

 

I could.

 

But I fear it would be an exercise in futility given your posting history.

[TheThirdRace]

Hate to sound childish but - isn't it unfair for mages to be nearly immortal while rogues have to wait on the fight to start and hope they don't get flanked?

Nah, it's not childish, you just want it like you'd like it to be and it's normal. Doesn't make it right, but it's normal.

Mages are far from being immortal, just let everything go at them and they'll drop like flies. Except the Arcane Warrior of course, but that's because the character is built to have aggro.

It's more about what are the roles of each classes and you'll see this distinction more on Perilous than any other difficulty.

Warriors are usually there to attract attention and hold the line. Legionnaires do it by being defensive, Reavers do it by being all out offense. They're built to survive the front lines, but it's a dangerous job and some Warriors are better suited than others. The Templar is a pretty good mix of offense and defense, the Katari is grey... were you looking for a good word?

Mages are usually there to crowd control and deal damage to large groups. The great majority of their spells applies to groups, they're usually pretty weak against single target. Since mages aren't built to deal a lot of damage to a single target, they're somewhat lower aggro priority than they should. If Chain lighning is only hitting for 100 damage 6 targets, it's a small amounts to each enemy so it's normal they might not take them as seriously as they should. If Mages wait till Warriors get aggro, they should never die unless the Warrior let one slip by. That's why Mages seems so "immortal", all the conditions are perfect for them. The crowd control abilities are really what makes them shine, even Firestorm is more efficient at CC than as damage... at least if everyone's doing its job that is.

Rogues are usually the high DPS class. Assassins and Archers have killer single target DPS and can take out small groups. When Warriors hold the line and Mages crowd control, it's the Rogues that deal devastating damage. It's not rare on Perilous that my Assassin has over 50 kills in a good group (more than 70 on a bad one), I've seen Archers do the same with Bow of the Griphon. Rogues can literally drop any target on the field in an instant if they have the right equipment. It's no wonder they're the priority targets. You do exactly the same when you see a Stalker, everybody tries to kill it first. Hunters and Alchemists are a bit more challenging, but over the last few days we see more and more builds that are working for them. Hunters can really decimate things with Stealth and Leap Shot while Alchemist seems to have potential with less single target DPS but with more crowd control.

When you understand this, you realize it's normal for Rogues to wait for Warriors or Mages to draw aggro. Both are more suited to shed damage, Rogues are more glass canon than anything. But Rogues particularly shine in the split moment between the aggro taken by Warriors/Mages and the moment where they reach their target. Your role is to prevent any target to reach Mages and to a lesser extent, Warriors. As an Assassin/Alchemist you can backstab the **** out of things as long as they got aggro somewhere else. As an Archer/Hunter you can shoot them before they reach you. Rogues are really the masters of the "in between", if the enemy reach you you're done. That's why it's good for you to not get aggro as a Rogue, because you're not playing to your strengths.

Ultimately, it's not childish to want to deal damage. Everyone has a favorite character and everyone would want him/her to dominate with damage. Unfortunately, every character has its own strengths and weaknesses. While it's not impossible to overlook them and play however you want, the higher the difficulty, the higher the need to stick to those roles to really shine out there.

[russ4ua16]

I agree that dagger rouges have enough dps to warrant a risk vs. reward argument but not archers and hunters. As for playing what I like - I like my elementalist better but only because he's so OP. My groups have not failed a perilous since I swapped over. 15% cool down amulet and the passives that affect CD = constant barriers.

[Chaz Darkbane]

If you want survivability as a Rogue there is a probably a problem with how you are playing your rogue. But that aside I do have some good news for you, there is no "Guard on hit" daggers currently in the game, however there is a unique dagger titled "Lady Jocasta's Revenge" which gives you 1% of your maximum health back on every hit, it the proc does effect hits with either dagger so this would give your rogue that little bit of survival you crave. 

[russ4ua16]

I know how to make the classes work in this system but I think the system needs tweaking. Rogues shouldn't be forced to stand on hot coals while mages sip iced tea in the shade.

[Torkelight]

I promoted my archer nine times before I got tired of having no survivability. Now I play an elementalist. With some cool down reduction I can keep an entire group protected with barriers non stop.
Rouges need more survival. Parry should be a passive for all rogue classes. Also the dodge passive needs to be better.

I have no idea how you were able to promote archer 9 times and still have problems surviving.  Are you building it wrong? Do you have a good bow? Do you stand in the frontlines.? Whatever it is, you are doing something wrong. 

Stand far away in the back of the group and remember that it's not your job to engage really. Use covers for what its worth and leaping shot if desperate.

I leveled an archer from 1 to 20 a few days ago, and I think I died once - on the demon commander on perilous.

[Torkelight]

I know how to make the classes work in this system but I think the system needs tweaking. Rogues shouldn't be forced to stand on hot coals while mages sip iced tea in the shade.

Just to comment lightly on this, I think that built correctly assassins have really good survivability, but its not that much surviving, it's killing and then hiding, rince repeat. You are not a tank and should not try to be one.

[Chaz Darkbane]

Just to comment lightly on this, I think that built correctly assassins have really good survivability, but its not that much surviving, it's killing and then hiding, rince repeat. You are not a tank and should not try to be one.

 

This. Here is my Assassin build.

 

Stealth: Obvious choice is obvious, get the perk to make it so stealth is instant and breaks crowd control to escape demon commander or stalker enemies. Get the perks "Knife in the Shadows" and "I was Never Here" to get instant criticals out of stealth and allow your kills to instantly reset the cooldown.

 

Hidden Blades: The strongest burst skill in the Assassin's arsenal. Perk it for more hits and then use it out of stealth to instantly crit on every single hit from the skill. This should kill pretty much any enemy instantly aside from bosses and minibosses.

 

Twin Fang: Debatable skill but after some testing it seems to do more actual damage then any other move out of stealth for some reason (including death blow and shadow strike). It has a low cooldown and does a ton of damage, use it to instakill most regular enemies like archers and infantry, take the perk for extra damage and the sunder bonus.

 

Flank Attack: Use this as an escape or dodge skill. A properly time flank attack will land you behind the enemy, allowing you to dodge strong blows and give you stealth when perked. Use this mostly as a method of restoring your stealth if your failed to kill the enemy on the first try and find yourself standing in the middle of 20 archers.

 

 

Basically what you want to do with this build is rely completely on stealth to perform actions. An assassins melee dps is high on it's own, but you shouldn't be out there hacking and slashing if every enemy is focusing on you. Use your stealth to slip ahead of your group and use Hidden Blades to instantly kill large threats like the stalker or shadow. This kill will reset your stealth and allow you to either slip away or continue ambushing archers with Twin Fang while your party closes in to engage. Keep in mind if you fail to kill your target on the first hit (sometimes a Templar Knight or Behemoth might survive Hidden Blade for example) then you need not panic. Use your flank attack to instantly stealth again and slip out of your enemies focus. This will give you your chance to finish what your started with the main threat, or refocus to another enemy if you are not confidant in your ability to one shot them.

[russ4ua16]

Same build I use and basically the same strategy. I'm not saying that I find it impossible to play the rogue classes. I am saying there is no balance between mage and rogue classes. Assassins are better off than archers and hunters.
That being said, I've been playing mmos longer than most of you have been alive and I'm no stranger to forum lurkers who never share a complaint with anyone. Why? Epeen

[Chaz Darkbane]

Same build I use and basically the same strategy. I'm not saying that I find it impossible to play the rogue classes. I am saying there is no balance between mage and rogue classes. Assassins are better off than archers and hunters.
That being said, I've been playing mmos longer than most of you have been alive and I'm no stranger to forum lurkers who never share a complaint with anyone. Why? Epeen

 

Mages are the people who nuke down groups, assassins are single target. Works the same way in this game as well. Archers can pull off stupid ridiculous damage at a range and I would say they have much higher burst potential than the sin. 

[Torkelight]

Same build I use and basically the same strategy. I'm not saying that I find it impossible to play the rogue classes. I am saying there is no balance between mage and rogue classes. Assassins are better off than archers and hunters.
That being said, I've been playing mmos longer than most of you have been alive and I'm no stranger to forum lurkers who never share a complaint with anyone. Why? Epeen

Don't be that guy. I've tried that before myself and failed. There are a lot of people that has been gaming since the early days, myself including. I was one of the first people that entered one of the servers of Ultima Online, so your statement kinda falls flat on its arse.

Assassins could in most cases rack up more kills and score more points than any mage, and archers and hunters should even outkill and outscore assassins and everyone else. I have played threatening games where my archer has racked up over 7000 points. It might say more about my teammates than me, but then again - it was quite easy. I just stand in the back and spam long shot, explosive shot and take out larger minions with mark of death.

If anything survives the onslaught leaping shot is your friend. If someone shoots at you from distance, hug cover.

When I die in this video is a perfect example of when I actually SHOULD have gone for cover and stayed there a few seconds. Other than that a not so great but ok example of how to play an archer.

[FLASH--JOHNSON]

at least one dagger has heal %1 on hit. 

 

Mages are the people who nuke down groups, assassins are single target. Works the same way in this game as well. Archers can pull off stupid ridiculous damage at a range and I would say they have much higher burst potential than the sin. 

 

sin will outdamage archers on single targets every time. archers have good burst damage but not as much as the sin, the trade off is that they can hit multiple targets more easily

[russ4ua16]

I was in the UO beta. Proud member of [FL] - the guild that owned Pacific for years before shard transferring around the world to own everyone. Thing is, I mentioned how long I'd been gaming online because I've been giving feedback to developers for exactly that long.
I wanted to make the point that some people never share a complaint with anyone because it doesn't make them look "pro" to admit that they ever have any problems.

I'm asking for two changes to rogue skills: 1) Parry is changed to a percent chance, returns no damage and becomes a passive skill 2) the dodge passive is reworked to have 100% up time with a percent chance to dodge.

The "rogues are fine, l2p" comments are unavoidable so this will be the last time I smack this particular dead horse. I don't even play the rogue classes anymore and typing on this tablet is a PITA

[Chi_Mangetsu]

I have noticed now and then a Mage that has occasional Walking Fortress. Anyone have an idea what they might be using?

[caino221]

Hey I recently got 2 of those Lady Jocasta's Revenge. I'm rubbish at number crunching trying things out...using them both would give me more hp? Or same? Are they bugged so it's only worth using one?

Anyone's knows please let me know