198 réponses à ce sujet

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

I agree.  I know you didn't mean any harm OP, but perhaps you could make it a little clearer?

Edited!

[Grieving Natashina]

Ty for all the understanding. Now that I got my cup of tempered gluhwine world becomes less hostile every minute.

 

It's so easy to forget you're talking to real people out there on forums, ones who have their feelings, too. Your point is taken, ty for kind words.

 

<hug>

No problem.  It can be tough sometimes, especially in this day and age.  

 

Enjoy your wine.  I know Christmas isn't the best day for a lot of people, but from one DA nerd to another, I hope you have a great day.  My mom-in-law got me two of the DA comics, so I'll be geeking out after I get home from dinner later.  

 

 

Edited! 

You're sweet, thank you.  

[Little Princess Peach]

Wow...

 

And here I liked ya...

 

Now I'm heartbroken . 

 

Seriously , there are too many gay ?? Seriously ??

 

Considering that in the whole games market outta there...only Bioware give us anything....while you still get something..it is too much ??? 

 

I have 2 romance and so do ya . Its fair...how is that too much ?? 

 

female hetero get : Blackwall , Iron bull and Cullen . 

Lesbien get : Sera and Josie 

Male Gay get : Dorian and Iron Bull 

Male Hetero get : Cass and Josie 

heck thats a lot of romances Op just be thankful that bioware took the time to give us an extra element to the game most companies don't give us Li's so be greatful

[Calders]

I think there is a way of doing more at less cost (after all its not a relationship simulator so we don't we don't want this to dominate the game... or at least I don't). 

 

Instead of having the companions have defined sexualities make them player sexual but let the player set their protagonists sexuality in the character creator.  This way large parts of the companions romance arc's (and cut scenes) could remain the same you would just need to change the companions dialogue to make them more appropriate to that sexuality.

[Grieving Natashina]

The writers and developers have stated for years that they aren't going to allow any sort of sexuality toggle.    Period.  I'm willing to provide some links from David Gaider to start, and I can try to track ones down from Mike Laidlaw (DG's boss) and Mark Darrah (Executive Produce for the DA series, and one of the higher ups at BioWare) to back this up.  Let me know if you want them.

 

I have to admit...it's odd that you state that this isn't a "Relationship simulator" and then start suggesting something like a sexuality toggle at creation creation and full-blown dialogue changes because a few folks might be a little uncomfortable.  Most of the ones that would be bothered by this aren't acting like it, and I think it's because it's not like Dorian or Sera or Iron Bull or Josie will hit on the player first.   It's an even worse idea as a gameplay mechanic in general.  It shouldn't be done to make everyone pansexual, and it also shouldn't be done for the sake of censorship.  

 

I'd re-examine your post, if I were you.

[DaemionMoadrin]

The writers and developers have stated for years that they aren't going to allow any sort of sexuality toggle.    Period.  I'm willing to provide some links from David Gaider to start, and I can try to track ones down from Mike Laidlaw (DG's boss) and Mark Darrah (Executive Produce for the DA series, and one of the higher ups at BioWare) to back this up.  Let me know if you want them.

 

I have to admit...it's odd that you state that this isn't a "Relationship simulator" and then start suggesting something like a sexuality toggle at creation creation and full-blown dialogue changes because a few folks might be a little uncomfortable.  Most aren't, because it isn't like Dorian or Sera or Iron Bull or Josie will hit on the player first.  

 

I'd re-examine your post, if I were you.

 

I'd love if my companions hit on me. Or just some of the other NPCs in my castle. I rarely make the first step in RL, having to do so in a game feels a bit weird. Especially since I'm not all that interested in my possible LIs anyway.

 

I also don't get why people are upset when gay people flirt with them. Take it as a compliment and move on. You having no interest in them is no different from not having an interest in a straight person who flirts with you. Again, only because the sexuality/gender is compatible doesn't mean that there is attraction or interest.

[Grieving Natashina]

Nothing against the OP, but making everyone pansexual for the sake of the player sits poorly with me.   That would be a great loss of representation for everyone else; straight, gay or lesbian.  Making all companions a romance for the sake of player convenience isn't the best way to approach this content.  It would be nice, but I think that's unfair to everyone all around.   While I'm glad that the LGBT community is a lot more equal in terms of representation, it should be on an equal playing field.   Straight/bi/gay/lesbian/ possibly asexual and possibly more.  It seems like it would be a waste of potential if all those would-be stories were put aside for the sake of everyone getting the same LIs.

 

@Daemion I know that part of it was the rivalry loss.  I've seen posters that are still freaked out about it to this day.  Well, at least as of last week.  No joke.

[Calders]

The writers and developers have stated for years that they aren't going to allow any sort of sexuality toggle.    Period.  I'm willing to provide some links from David Gaider to start, and I can try to track ones down from Mike Laidlaw (DG's boss) and Mark Darrah (Executive Produce for the DA series, and one of the higher ups at BioWare) to back this up.  Let me know if you want them.

 

I have to admit...it's odd that you state that this isn't a "Relationship simulator" and then start suggesting something like a sexuality toggle at creation creation and full-blown dialogue changes because a few folks might be a little uncomfortable.  Most of the ones that would be bothered by this aren't acting like it, and I think it's because it's not like Dorian or Sera or Iron Bull or Josie will hit on the player first.  

 

I'd re-examine your post, if I were you.

 

I must admit I was in two minds to post because I just knew somebody would interpret it this way... this is perhaps a reflection of our hyper-sensitive world.  The purpose of a relationship toggle is not so people don't get offended by other sexualities in game its so you don't need so many LI's.  There are 8 Li's in DAI, that quite a bit of resource going into that when I think it could be better placed elsewhere (we have typically have around 4 in the past).  At the same time I recognised that simply having all LI's bisexual isn't actually representative.  After all there are also calls for Demi-sexual and Asexual romances to be included.  A relationship toggle seems to me to be a cheaper way to reflect more sexualities as you can re-use a fair amount of the resources.  This could be done with dialogue choices as well but that often feel clunky and is probable harder to do for things like Demi-sexual.

 

However, if you think the important thing is that games should expose all players to all sexualities as some kind of 'education' for them then you will disagree, but I really don't think that is what games are for. 

 

p.s. I have no problems with any companions flirting with me.. its just a question of rationing resources so we can put more into things like plot.

[DaemionMoadrin]

@Daemion I know that part of it was the rivalry loss.  I've seen posters that are still freaked out about it to this day.  Well, at least as of last week.  No joke.

 

It didn't even matter in the long run, I managed to get all my DA2 companions to love and admire me, even with taking the occasional hit from making decisions they didn't agree with.

It's also hypocritical in some regard since pretty much everyone flirted with Aveline despite knowing she wasn't interested.

 

*shrugs* People are silly sometimes. There are lots of other issues to complain about.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

I must admit I was in two minds to post because I just knew somebody would interpret it this way... this is perhaps a reflection of our hyper-sensitive world.  The purpose of a relationship toggle is not so people don't get offended by other sexualities in game its so you don't need so many LI's.  There are 8 Li's in DAI, that quite a bit of resource going into that when I think it could be better placed elsewhere (we have typically have around 4 in the past).  At the same time I recognised that simply having all LI's bisexual isn't actually representative.  After all there are also calls for Demi-sexual and Asexual romances to be included.  A relationship toggle seems to me to be a cheaper way to reflect more sexualities as you can re-use a fair amount of the resources.  This could be done with dialogue choices as well but that often feel clunky and is probable harder to do for things like Demi-sexual.

 

However, if you think the important thing is that games should expose all players to all sexualities as some kind of 'education' for them then you will disagree, but I really don't think that is what games are for. 

 

p.s. I have no problems with any companions flirting with me.. its just a question of rationing resources so we can put more into things like plot.

 

 

See, they wanted to do more LIs.   This was up to BioWare and while they listened the fans, they still did what they wanted.  They didn't have the time to do the kind of detailed work that they did for DA:I in DA2.  Also, even though he was DLC, Sebastian was straight.  So there was 5 romances in that game.  

 

If you think they should do less LIs, then that's on you and not them.  They didn't do it just to please the fans.   It doesn't matter what you think the cheaper route is, BioWare has stated for several years now that they don't find a toggle worth it.   They feel, rightly, that it sends the wrong message that being LGBT is somehow something that has to be toggled.  As you've said, this isn't a relationship simulator for the player to custom tailor their romance for.

 

So if BioWare doesn't care about the cost, feels that it's a waste of time, sends the wrong message and has stated for years that they aren't going to do it, then why do you insist that this is what BioWare should do?

 

You think I'm coming from the perspective of treating this as education?  Really?  Just because I think it's fair to ask for equal representation?  Just because I think it's creative and better than seeing the same old archetypes over and over again?  Sorry you feel that way, but I can promise that's not my motivation.  

 

You want to know what people would think of a toggle?  Please start your own thread, because the OP isn't asking for that.   

[FNX Finest]

I thought this thread would be 10 pages long by now.  Nice try op

[Grieving Natashina]

I thought this thread would be 10 pages long by now.  Nice try op

The OP isn't trolling, only offering a suggestion.   I noticed that in the rest of their posts.  So nice try.

[Chari]

1) many

2) IB is pansexual

3) wat r u even saying? Homosexual LIs are but 2. Everyone else is either heterosexual or bisexual or a single pansexual

[Grieving Natashina]

The thread title is a little confusing, but the OP was suggesting going back to the all-pansexual route.

[DaemionMoadrin]

From my perspective romances don't even have to be equal in number. I'd take one brilliantly written gay/lesbian romance over two mediocre ones. (Not sure how those rate in DA:I, haven't tried them yet.)

I wouldn't mind seeing the alternative romances becoming the main romance once in a while. Each time they push for a main/canon LI, it's the straight one...

 

In fact, I'm still waiting for a game with a protagonist who happens to be lesbian. You know, someone along the lines of Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell. It was never a main focus, she simply woke up in bed with two women in one scene. She wasn't defined as "that lesbian cyborg", she had a complex personality, got to be a real badass and was in the center of a great story.

[FNX Finest]

The thread title is a little confusing, but the OP was suggesting going back to the all-pansexual route.

 

either I need to use a search engine or there are some VERY naughty housewives out there.

[Gaesesagai]

Please be a lil bit more honest to others and don't ask gay romance patch advantages over other sexual appearances. Bioware tends to listen.

[UPD] A lot of people got the point of my message wrong due to my stubborness. I didn't mean that gay relationships are somewhat wrong, or that same abusive behaviour from straight people is welcome, or anything like that. Point is that the romancing characters are fine as they are in DA: I and they surely don't need any tweaks.
And again, I'm the one with a hand up for total pansexuality of all romanceable characters from the start. It may take a lot of effort to write all the lines for both gender romances, but it is worthwhile IMHO.

 

 

Sorry for misleading everyone here. I'm not asking developers to do anything.

I'm asking community members to cease excessive promotion of more gay options.

 

As stated above I'm fine with the situation when sexuality options are balanced like in DA:I. On top of that we don't need any, thank you.

 

However I'd live just fine if all romanceable characters would be pansexual like it was in DA2. In fact i liked that system better.

 

 

Good point there, friend. Didn't mean to offend you in any way.
Maybe that's because I'm ignorant straight myself?

Anyways, I'm wrong in this part. By wanting others to be less selfish I became selfish myself.
Won't happen again.

 

Fantastic posts. You're the first I've seen who... oh wait...

 

Now a bit more details.

1. Gay people and their allies asking for representation or variety of representation does not equal "asking for advantages" unless you're an ignorant hypocrite.

2. People aren't idiots who got your brilliant message wrong. You either are incapable of proper language to articulate your ideas or you're simply as stated above.

3. "Excesive promotion of more gay options" Wow. I'm surprised... no, I'm SHOCKED you could refrain from using the ol' "gays shouldn't shove things down my throat" phrase.

4. You really like talking for everyone isn't it? With all the "we" you're using. That or you're royalty and used to talking using the majestic plural.

5. You tried to be clever and witty with the "ignorant straight myself" line, but it turns out you can be accurate about something... Guess about what...

6. So very magnanimous of you to admit you became selfish due to others being oh so selfish with their insane demands. It makes you more human. Really. No sarcasm. Get it?

 

I could go on a bit more, or you know, actually bother to argue against the nonsense that is your topic and silly preconceptions... but it's really not worth the effort. It was worth writting this semi joky post though. I had fun with it... 

[Grieving Natashina]

either I need to use a search engine or there are some VERY naughty housewives out there.

In other words, they are requesting that the romances play out more like DA2, with all LIs available to everyone regardless of gender or race.   

[abr]

The thread title is a little confusing, but the OP was suggesting going back to the all-pansexual route.

 

Yes that's what i got too... and i can even relate cause i QQ'd a little when i figured i cant jump Dorian. But we talked about it and now we're cool.

 

From my perspective romances don't even have to be equal in number. I'd take one brilliantly written gay/lesbian romance over two mediocre ones. (Not sure how those rate in DA:I, haven't tried them yet.)

I wouldn't mind seeing the alternative romances becoming the main romance once in a while. Each time they push for a main/canon LI, it's the straight one...

 

In fact, I'm still waiting for a game with a protagonist who happens to be lesbian. You know, someone along the lines of Motoko Kusanagi from Ghost in the Shell. It was never a main focus, she simply woke up in bed with two women in one scene. She wasn't defined as "that lesbian cyborg", she had a complex personality, got to be a real badass and was in the center of a great story.

 

Lil confused... since my character is dating Jo, isn't she now a lesbian "badass and was in the center of a great story"?

[FNX Finest]

Fantastic posts. You're the first I've seen who... oh wait...

 

Now a bit more details.

1. Gay people and their allies asking for representation or variety of representation does not equal "asking for advantages" unless you're an ignorant hypocrite.

2. People aren't idiots who got your brilliant message wrong. You either are incapable of proper language to articulate your ideas or you're simply as stated above.

3. "Excesive promotion of more gay options" Wow. I'm surprised... no, I'm SHOCKED you could refrain from using the ol' "gays shouldn't shove things down my throat" phrase.

4. You really like talking for everyone isn't it? With all the "we" you're using. That or you're royalty and used to talking using the majestic plural.

5. You tried to be clever and witty with the "ignorant straight myself" line, but it turns out you can be accurate about something... Guess about what...

6. So very magnanimous of you to admit you became selfish due to others being oh so selfish with their insane demands. It makes you more human. Really. No sarcasm. Get it?

 

I could go on a bit more, or you know, actually bother to argue against the nonsense that is your topic and silly preconceptions... but it's really not worth the effort. It was worth writting this semi joky post though. I had fun with it... 

 

"shoving things down someones throat" is a term that does a very good job describing a situation.  There are numerous times it is used and where it fits well or conveys a point perfectly.

 

It has NOTHING to do with gay/homosexuality.  It has to do with being a figure of speech to get a point across in all types of subject matter.

[Gaesesagai]

"shoving things down someones throat" is a term that does a very good job describing a situation.  There are numerous times it is used and where it fits well or conveys a point perfectly.

 

It has NOTHING to do with gay/homosexuality.  It has to do with being a figure of speech to get a point across in all types of subject matter.

 

It's a favorite phrase for particularly nasty homophobes out there. It's also "funny" to think about it when hearing it from someone who advocates gays being put on an island for example.

That's what I was referring to. It's a bit of bizarre, unintended double entendre for homophobic people, and funny because they don't seem to realise it. I didn't think it was necessary to explain this.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Lil confused... since my character is dating Jo, isn't she now a lesbian "badass and was in the center of a great story"?

 

Yes and no. Our Inquisitor is a placeholder, an avatar. It's not a fleshed out personality, we the player decide who they are in the end. In your case it would be true, I guess. Great story and badass is debateable, too.

 

I was more thinking about a protagonist character like Lara Croft, someone you can't change to fit to the player's tastes.

[Calders]

 

 

 

 

See, they wanted to do more LIs.   This was up to BioWare and while they listened the fans, they still did what they wanted.  They didn't have the time to do the kind of detailed work that they did for DA:I in DA2.  Also, even though he was DLC, Sebastian was straight.  So there was 5 romances in that game.  

 

If you think they should do less LIs, then that's on you and not them.  They didn't do it just to please the fans.   It doesn't matter what you think the cheaper route is, BioWare has stated for several years now that they don't find a toggle worth it.   They feel, rightly, that it sends the wrong message that being LGBT is somehow something that has to be toggled.  As you've said, this isn't a relationship simulator for the player to custom tailor their romance for.

 

So if BioWare doesn't care about the cost, feels that it's a waste of time, sends the wrong message and has stated for years that they aren't going to do it, then why do you insist that this is what BioWare should do?

 

You think I'm coming from the perspective of treating this as education?  Really?  Just because I think it's fair to ask for equal representation?  Just because I think it's creative and better than seeing the same old archetypes over and over again?  Sorry you feel that way, but I can promise that's not my motivation.  

 

You want to know what people would think of a toggle?  Please start your own thread, because the OP isn't asking for that.   

 

 

I don't understand the point about Bioware has already stated this and that... isn't this a forum where we discuss Bioware's choices or do you think some subjects should be untouchable.  And what in anything I said makes you think I am against equal representation... I want everybody to have a love story that is fitting for them. And I'm all for fair representation in NPC's (although I could do without the preaching I received when I innocently asked Klem if he was a woman).  Anyway I have given my opinion so I will leave it at that.

[daveliam]

"shoving things down someones throat" is a term that does a very good job describing a situation. There are numerous times it is used and where it fits well or conveys a point perfectly.

It has NOTHING to do with gay/homosexuality. It has to do with being a figure of speech to get a point across in all types of subject matter.

There is a particularly delicious irony about guys complaining about gay content being 'shoved down their throat' all the time, though. It's Freudian in a way that makes me smile every time.

[Grieving Natashina]

There is a particularly delicious irony about guys complaining about gay content being 'shoved down their throat' all the time, though. It's Freudian in a way that makes me smile every time.

I don't know, I'm becoming fond of "blasted in the face" myself.  A lot of that going around lately.