440 réponses à ce sujet

[Livi14]

Nah the Templars never attack because there was never going to be an attack. The villages talk about the imminence of attack but it never happens. It was a ruse by Alexius to get Fiona to side with them. After Val Royex both parties go to their respective strongholds and sit there waiting for you. The Templars go to Therinfall, they never leave until either you arrive or they get turned and part of them dies fighting.
 
Edit: unless you are talking about small attacks in Hinterlands where rogue groups of Templars and Mages attack each other and you. They attack everyone else as well and are irrelevant to the plot. The main force that Fiona fears is happily sitting in Therinfall and waiting for Quizzy to arrive.

The herbalist's tasks in Redcliff. The quest giver tells the inquisitor that she ran out of supplies treating people in Redcliff who were injured in a templar attack.

[Boost32]

Fiona breaks off her alliance with Alexius when he says he wants her Mages to fight Qunari. Do you really think she would agree to fight the Inquisition in her right mind? Add to that there's a Codex that explains that the Venatori plans to brainwash the Mages at Redcliff to serve Corypheus.

I played the templar side twice and never saw this codex, do you have a link to it or you are only writing what others told you?

[Ascendra]

The herbalist's tasks in Redcliff. The quest giver tells the inquisitor that she ran out of supplies treating people in Redcliff who were injured in a templar attack.

 

They were probably referring to small groups in Hinterlands rather than a large force, because the convo seems so minor. I know I heard several people talking about imminence of attack. The whole debate about Fiona started with her being duped by Alexius into believing in attack which wasnt there and what arguments he could use to convince her to join. And even Fiona herself mentions it if you ask her why the hell she joined Tevinter.

[RedIntifada]

I ended up doing the mage quest just because it felt more urgent... Tevinter had enslaved the mages and they needed the Inquisitions help, where as the templar quest simply indicated that we were going to get the nobles to organise a meeting with the templars.
 

[thesuperdarkone2]

I played the templar side twice and never saw this codex, do you have a link to it or you are only writing what others told you?

Did you go to the Hissing Wastes? There's a codex entry in the Venatori camp during the tomb quest that explains this.

[Hurbster]

The herbalist's tasks in Redcliff. The quest giver tells the inquisitor that she ran out of supplies treating people in Redcliff who were injured in a templar attack.

The same templars that are specifically mentioned as rogues that ignored the call to go back to Therinfall ?

[Boost32]

Did you go to the Hissing Wastes? There's a codex entry in the Venatori camp during the tomb quest that explains this.

Yes I did, do you have a link to this codex?

[Sommo James]

Have you noticed that if you do the templar quest, when you arrive in Skyhold the first time your advisors try to persuade you to do not accept Cole in the inquisition, even if we already agreed to keep him in Haven? Shouldn't they talk about the opportunity to keep/not keep Dorian, a mage from Tevinter whom we do not nothing about?

[Merlik]

I hate recruiting Dorian later but his entrance during the attack on Haven more than made up for it cause he totally stole the spotlight moreso than Cole's appearance in the same scenario. I think Cole's character shines during the Templar quest and his appearance in the war room after wards.

 

 

Yeah, Dorian at the gates of Haven is a must. I love that scene.

[TobiTobsen]

The same templars that are specifically mentioned as rogues that ignored the call to go back to Therinfall ?

 

Heh... those renegades weren't even capable of purging the mage supremacist that roam the Hinterlands, yet somehow were enough "prove" for Alexius to convince Fiona that their doom is coming.

[Amirit]

Not another thread about the morality of mages versus Templars - all my canon runs are pro-mage.
 

Spoiler

But I've done both pro-Templar and pro-Mage now, and I'm kind of glad I did the Templar run first.  I think I understand and appreciate the story better because of it.
 
The reasons:

• Nemesis: Samson had a one-game head start on Calpernia, so he should have had the advantage where this stuff is concerned.  But I didn't understand Samson's motives at all until he was giving testimony at his trial.  I found myself sympathizing with ex-slave Calpernia, to the point where my pro-Templar templar Trevelyan pardoned her to return to Tevinter and make it better.  When we last saw Samson he'd been sorely disillusioned with the mage cause, and now he was sided with the biggest-baddest mage of them all and his army of Tevinter cultists.
• Ally: Fiona was a known quantity too.  I liked her from The Calling, many hated her.  Her understated appearance in DAI didn't really change anyone's opinion of her.  Some of the things she was doing seemed hard to fathom too, and when you get her she just kind of hangs out in the library.  Ser Barris, meanwhile, has quickly become a fan favourite, and you can send him out on missions.
• Recruitment: The pro-Mage mission takes you into Redcliffe castle, which is a fairly standard dungeons in spite of the Fade rips.  Much of it is carried by Dorian's sparkling personality.  The central and interesting drama with Alexius and his son is not heavily developed.  It also introduced time travel, which is an element most fans seemed to react badly too.  The pro-Templar run was tense, exciting, and dramatic, and the dive into the Fade gave you insight into the darker side of Cassandra's character.  The Fade was a pretty safe place to bring players (safer than time travel) and the battle against the Envy demon was epic.
• Corypheus: When I first got to the forums, I was surprised to see how many felt Corypheus was a complete nonentity, a blank.  It took me awhile to realize most people had never set foot in the pro-Templar version of the Temple of Dumat, where you can find Corypheus's journals.  His agony over the silence of his old god.  His surprising respect for Calpernia, and his regret at using her for a vessel.  Suddenly this alien, monstrous villain had an emotional complexity.  The most interesting thing in the pro-mage run was a Tranquil who'd chosen to side with Samson of his own free will.

So am I way off on this...?  Irrespective of which choice is "right," does the Templar path make the better story in DAI?

 

 
It's just you Hydwn. Well, obviously NOT just you - there are many here who thinks the same way - but there are plenty reasons to disagree. And not all of them are matter of taste. Let's look at your criteria:
 
Nemesis: pure matter of taste. I remember Samson from DA2 and was excited to find him here. His story of expelled templar who lost his - well, everything! - because of compassion is touching enough. No less than slavery for Calpernia. The only thing where it's might be worse for some of us is inability to talk him out of his path. And, btw, he did not sided with a mage, he sided with a GOD (as he thought, of course) because he was fed up with all in-between-ers.
 
Ally: really, another matter of taste. Fiona is a hero for many who read the books and love the fact she is Alistair's mother. And even her total diminish from a biggest writer's love and wonder of Thedas to a lunatic still does not place her lower than an ordinary soldier Ser Barris, who did not dare to interfere until all his officers were proven to be demons.
 
Recruitment: (where you placed everything from companion in the event to boss fight). Another question of taste. Fade was interesting - no doubts, but the dark future was painted perfectly. And I personally much prefer tragic figure of Alexius as a boss to just another demon, even with a new ability to exist out of the mortal body. Not to mention the very final scene with companion sacrifice - tragic and beautiful. 
As for recruitment part in case of mages it's a big serious question - free or back to circle, a meaningful decision, while for templars all you get is leaderless bunch of soldiers. Whatever you do with them they remain just that - soldiers to fight mages and the reason to keep them without official Order status is the fact that there is no Order as for now - ALL leaders are dead, so they can be reassigned, like any military unit. They are not bound by circle (and were not), they did not loose any rights or something. No drama in decision at all.
 
 Corypheus: you get some more information. Any pro-mage who played DA2 or read codex will tell you that Corypheus was and remain interesting without it.
 
 
As to fitting the general plot I did not see any indication of a "better story". More like "why on earth the option to go to templars even here"? For me to make it - not better but making any sense - the story should include one more mission giving insides of what is going on with templars like we could see in Redcliff for mages. may be with Cole as a guide.  Otherwise the very idea is a plot-breaker for me.

 

Oh, and the argument "I hate time-travel, so I side with templars to never see it" fails too unless you completely ignore a big mission on your war table and never ever visit Redcliff.
 
So, no, it's you and your perception of the story.

[Ashagar]

Its one of those things that becomes a matter of opinion, to me my investigation into Redcliff village was enough to make me not meet at Redcliff castle and go get the Templars.

 

The alliance with Tevintor that some of the mages fully supported was enough for me even without going into messing with magic that warps time and the murders of the tranquil to make shard finding skulls. To me it was why would I go into such a pit without the warriors trained to deal with such vileness.

 

 But to me what make getting the Templars a better choice is that with the Templars you have a group seeking redemption opposed to a group that willful committed treason against the rulers that gave them shelter and protection and allowed the helpless tranquil be killed without a word. That's without going into rebel mages killing other mages for not siding with them.

[sylvanaerie]

Having done "Champions of the Just" today, I have to say, OP, it's just you.

 

1) This quest wasn't exciting or dramatic, it was just a PITA to endure, especially the timed portion.  The Mages may be idiots but the urgency of the future seen added to the drama of the overall story.  Watching my companions and Leliana sacrifice themselves was so much better than anything on templar side.

 

2) Dorian > Cole as a companion.  Though i like both, and keeping Cole made a helluva lot more sense on Templar playthrough than it would for mage side, Dorian has some good moments with Felix and Alexius which you miss out of on the other side.  For that matter, Alexius was a much more complex villain than Envy, with the overall impression he's doing this to save his son, making him far more interesting.

 

3) After three playthroughs siding with the mages, Redcliffe without Connor felt strangely empty, despite having people there.  I had to head canon he was just in the castle with his uncle instead of miserable on the docks.  Hoping he's not with the attacking force at Haven later.

 

I've done it to see new stuff, and thanks to this thread I actually got up the oomph to try it at least, but the only thing that would redeem this storyline for me at this point is if you can get them off the Lyrium.  Otherwise, not repeating this again.

[Ryzaki]

I do admit the one part of COTJ I didn't like was the timed portion. It drags it down. But it also did add to the sense of urgency and since there's an actual punishment for failing that lasts the entire game it was fitting.

 

Still annoying though.

 

Though I have to strongly disagree about Dorian beating Cole as a companion. No way.

[sylvanaerie]

I do admit the one part of COTJ I didn't like was the timed portion. It drags it down. But it also did add to the sense of urgency and since there's an actual punishment for failing that lasts the entire game it was fitting.

 

Still annoying though.

 

Though I have to strongly disagree about Dorian beating Cole as a companion. No way.

 

Nothing happens if you get back in time, so there was no 'urgency' at all to it, just an annoyance factor because you have to keep backtracking.  

 

In Cole vs Dorian I have to strongly disagree with you. While I like Cole, and he has qualities I do enjoy in a companion, I find his speech pattern and penchant for saying stuff I just can't understand annoying at times.  Dorian beats Cole hands down IMO.

[Ryzaki]

Nothing happens if you get back in time, so there was no 'urgency' at all to it, just an annoyance factor because you have to keep backtracking.  

 

In Cole vs Dorian I have to strongly disagree with you. While I like Cole, and he has qualities I do enjoy in a companion, I find his speech pattern and penchant for saying stuff I just can't understand annoying at times.  Dorian beats Cole hands down IMO.

 

Nothing happens if you get back in time no. If you don't  get back early enough however you lose a resource. That's my point. That's the sense of urgency.

 

See I adore Cole and honestly the insight he gives in every other companion is invaluable to me and far more interesting than Dorian period. But you know YMMV and all that

[sylvanaerie]

Nothing happens if you get back in time no. If you don't  get back early enough however you lose a resource. That's my point. That's the sense of urgency.

 

See I adore Cole and honestly the insight he gives in every other companion is invaluable to me and far more interesting than Dorian period. But you know YMMV and all that

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this, because I didn't feel any urgency to the timed portion of the quest.  At all.  Only annoyance that I had to keep backtracking so I wouldn't have to start over again.

 

I am looking forward to gutting Fiona, but I get the feeling it's going to be less interesting than watching King Alistair telling her she wasn't welcome in Ferelden anymore.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Having done "Champions of the Just" today, I have to say, OP, it's just you.

 

1) This quest wasn't exciting or dramatic, it was just a PITA to endure, especially the timed portion.  The Mages may be idiots but the urgency of the future seen added to the drama of the overall story.  Watching my companions and Leliana sacrifice themselves was so much better than anything on templar side.

 

2) Dorian > Cole as a companion.  Though i like both, and keeping Cole made a helluva lot more sense on Templar playthrough than it would for mage side, Dorian has some good moments with Felix and Alexius which you miss out of on the other side.  For that matter, Alexius was a much more complex villain than Envy, with the overall impression he's doing this to save his son, making him far more interesting.

 

3) After three playthroughs siding with the mages, Redcliffe without Connor felt strangely empty, despite having people there.  I had to head canon he was just in the castle with his uncle instead of miserable on the docks.  Hoping he's not with the attacking force at Haven later.

 

I've done it to see new stuff, and thanks to this thread I actually got up the oomph to try it at least, but the only thing that would redeem this storyline for me at this point is if you can get them off the Lyrium.  Otherwise, not repeating this again.

Don't forget that the Envy Demon fight is annoying as hell. That damn jump and scream attack is just plain annoying.

[MelissaGT]

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this, because I didn't feel any urgency to the timed portion of the quest.  At all.  Only annoyance that I had to keep backtracking so I wouldn't have to start over again.

 

I am looking forward to gutting Fiona, but I get the feeling it's going to be less interesting than watching King Alistair telling her she wasn't welcome in Ferelden anymore.

 

If you don't get back in time you lose Ser Barris. He actually has a pretty in-depth round of war table missions, and you can promote him later. 

 

Fiona just stands around in the library....

 

I like both quests. I prefer Ser Barris as my resource and I also don't care for helping Fiona. BUT I really regret missing out on Samson's quest-line. Out of six playthroughs, I've split it 50/50. 

[Ryzaki]

Gonna have to agree to disagree on this, because I didn't feel any urgency to the timed portion of the quest.  At all.  Only annoyance that I had to keep backtracking so I wouldn't have to start over again.

 

I am looking forward to gutting Fiona, but I get the feeling it's going to be less interesting than watching King Alistair telling her she wasn't welcome in Ferelden anymore.

 

Fair enough. Losing Barris because he was getting worn down to demons felt plenty urgent to me.

 

Sadly it is. There isn't even a mention of it being her. Even just Vivi going "what a waste" would've been something. But I can say she certainly brought that inglorious death on herself.

[Ryzaki]

Don't forget that the Envy Demon fight is annoying as hell. That damn jump and scream attack is just plain annoying.

 

Meh I don't get the complaints. I just did that fight with a melee heavy party. (S&S Cass, 2HD Bull and DWR PC with Solas as mage on hard). It's perfectly beatable.

 

Hell I had a worse time at Haven because those Ventaori bastards spamming that mine attack and I didn't have evade yet.

[sylvanaerie]

If you don't get back in time you lose Ser Barris. He actually has a pretty in-depth round of war table missions, and you can promote him later. 

 

Fiona just stands around in the library....

 

I like both quests. I prefer Ser Barris as my resource and I also don't care for helping Fiona. BUT I really regret missing out on Samson's quest-line. Out of six playthroughs, I've split it 50/50. 

 

 

Fair enough. Losing Barris because he was getting worn down to demons felt plenty urgent to me.

 

Sadly it is. There isn't even a mention of it being her. Even just Vivi going "what a waste" would've been something. But I can say she certainly brought that inglorious death on herself.

 

I am aware you lose Barris if you take too long but come back before the timer runs out.  But since you can just keep going in and out of the great hall (and the companions will even warn you with banter when you are gone too long), there isn't any real urgency to it.  Any urgency felt is contrived since you can back track as often as you want to forestall this.  

Since i was trying to save him as well, that was one reason I had to keep backtracking over and over.  But there is no 'feeling' of urgency for me, because that contrivance existed.  Had I not had the option to go back in and 'rescue' them, it would have been a different story (and in all likelihood he would have died because i suck), then yes, there would have been urgency.  But i find it hard to attribute urgency to it when I know I can just keep going back in and help them, even in an RP sense. 

 

And crapola...was hoping there would have been something, ANYthing to being able to kill Fiona, even just a comment by Viv...*sigh*.  

Well, here's hoping Barris proves to be a better/more interesting resource than Alexius.

[Ryzaki]

I am aware you lose Barris if you take too long but come back before the timer runs out.  But since you can just keep going in and out of the great hall (and the companions will even warn you with banter when you are gone too long), there isn't any real urgency to it.  Any urgency felt is contrived since you can back track as often as you want to forestall this.  

Since i was trying to save him as well, that was one reason I had to keep backtracking over and over.  But there is no 'feeling' of urgency for me, because that contrivance existed.  Had I not had the option to go back in and 'rescue' them, it would have been a different story (and in all likelihood he would have died because i suck), then yes, there would have been urgency.  But i find it hard to attribute urgency to it when I know I can just keep going back in and help them, even in an RP sense. 

 

And crapola...was hoping there would have been something, ANYthing to being able to kill Fiona, even just a comment by Viv...*sigh*.  

Well, here's hoping Barris proves to be a better/more interesting resource than Alexius.

 

As you say it's a YMMV situation. I felt this was urgent you didn't. Much like you were touched by the sacrifices in the future version where I was yawning. (Or rolling my eyes).

 

Sadly no. I really did want someone to comment on it but they act like they've never even seen her before (which is odd because they bother to have Dorian react to whether or not he met you before you sided with the templars but Fiona's death? Nothing.)

[Gambit458]

The mage path was definitely better. You really see how important your Inquisitor is when you go the mage path when Alexius tosses you and Dorian into the future. Without the Inquisitor, you see the world falls to chaos. Not only that, but it makes more sense from a story standpoint because of how much they involved red lyrium in DA 2. You really see the full effects of it and the dangers it poses by siding with the mages because of how it affects the templars. I didn't really care for Corypheus so learning more about him didn't really appeal to me. You didn't really need to know more about him than you already did. He was one of the old magisters that tried to go to the Golden City. Another pro of the mage side was that it felt very personal for Cullen with how the templars fell. I always felt like we didn't get to see much of Cullen in the previous games so getting to see him involved with that story was pretty interesting for me. I could kind of feel for Alexius too. He just wanted to save his son but went about it all wrong. Another perk of siding with the mages is that, if you made him king, is that you get to see Alistair And if I'm not mistaken, isn't Fiona Alistair's mom? Think I read that somewhere..

 

Besides, the templars cause more problems than the mages do imo. Templars like Meredith reinforce my feelings towards them

[Catastrophy]

I have to confess that I skip much of the pop up reads, but the fights were ok. The defense of the big hall (where you need to return to every now and then based on a timer) did well for trying out several skill rotations. I also liked to have Venatori as enemies at Haven.