I did both sides and so far I prefer the pro-templar run, the time-magic thing was pretty cool but the story felt pretty linear? Hollow? I can't quite put my finger on the word, compared to the Envy Demon and how you had to basically fight your mind and your own self to dispell it.
Plus saving the non-corrupted Templars who still believe in the original goal of the Order is always a bonus. And Ser Barris, he is a BAMF.
The mage quest doesn't make sense because Solas. If you have him with you he's there in the future, corrupted.
It's like they made the quest before they'd decided what to do.
Also Cole is portrayed as having "saved" you somehow but he hasn't actually done anything at all if you play the mage questline - his appearance is pretty strange and it totally makes sense that you'd want to get rid of him.
Like many others, I find this a difficult choice every playthrough, in itself testament to good design.
In terms of gameplay and general feeling I prefer the mages. It feels more personal and has a better introduction, and I also feel the red templars make for better massed opponents than the venatori, as well as preferring Dorian to Cole, though such things are down to personal preference.
What makes me somewhat agree with the OP though, is considering the long-term consequences of this choice:
- If you side with the mages, you help them out, but essentially leave the templar order to get completely wiped out and converted to red templars. You also avert the threat of Alexius's dark future, but that future is caused by the inquisitor getting removed from the timeline more than anything else, so you basically avoid it by not siding with the mages in the first place. Dorian suggests that the influence of Alexius's time magic will spread on its own, but nothing seems to come of it.
- If you side with the templars, you help them out, but doing so also has beneficial consequences for mages in all the areas the inquisition can influence. The mages who are already in Alexius's grasp are by all accounts lost, but beyond them a restored templar order under a capable commander like Barris helps not only the templars themselves (likely to be able to weed out unsuitable elements, etc), but the remaining mages and people in general across Thedas as well, as the war table missions illustrate. It's really a chance to reforge the templars into what they should have been all along.
So in short it seems that saving with the mages = good for them but utterly screws the templars; whereas siding with the templars = greater good for everyone.
This tears at me somewhat as deep down on a personal level I really prefer the mage quest.. so I'm still undecided, every playthrough. I don't really see what people have against the time travel setup, and while I like Barris I also can't really see what makes him that special. But yeah, making my way through the future version of Redcliffe castle and seeing what becomes of everyone and everything really drives the feelings home. Maybe it's related to the quest you did in your first playthrough "sticking with you", but for me it sort of became canon.
My problem with the mage story line is Fiona. Her staying in power and going on to found the college is a near deal breaker for me. She shows no remorse for what happens to the tranquil and learns nothing. She even remarks that she is amazed that you give the grey wardens a second chance when they are victims of poor leadership just like the mages. At least the warden commander saw the errors of her ways and fought back against Cory's dragon.
Also I view it as my inquisitor met with Fiona and Alexius. Then decided to try and get some Templar backup before taking Alexius up on his invitation and facing his cult of mages.
[sighs] It looks like I have to run the game third time...
I went Templar on my cannon run, simply because the mages circle come out of the conflict well no matter who you pick, if you play your cards right.
Just soften Leliana and encourage her to become the next divine. She abolishes the circle and lets them look after themselves.
I've made a similar post on Reddit last week. Basically, I agree that the consequences of the Templar quest make for a better story. It's almost like it was the original story and the mage quest was hastily concocted without much thought. I'm still pissed about Solas being treated the same way as all other companions. No way would he meekly stay imprisoned/tortured for a year. At the very least there should have been a unique line or two.
However, the templar quest, by itself, isn't much fun. Even if "In Hushed Whispers" feels kinda unfinished, the whole concept of time travel is fascinating. Plus, I don't hate Fiona, simply on the basis of her being Alistair's mother (never read the books, though).
However, the templar quest, by itself, isn't much fun. Even if "In Hushed Whispers" feels kinda unfinished, the whole concept of time travel is fascinating. Plus, I don't hate Fiona, simply on the basis of her being Alistair's mother (never read the books, though).
Yeah, I have yet to see how things goe after the Templar-Quest...but as far as the Quests itself, the Time-Travel/glimpse into the future of Thedas was more dramatic in my book. Also Dorian is way cooler to have as Cole...
Though I also like this quasi-look into a future led by an evil possessed Inquisitor...yet overall, it did not thrill me as much. Now I will see if the side-villain/stories are better than Samson...
Can you get the Leliana divine ending if you don't side with the mages? I thought you basically end up with Cass vs Vivienne?
I did both and I prefer the Mage
Getting them in Redcliffe was awesome. The whole seeing the future thing and Leliana's sacrifice was epic.
I prefer the bleak future with Dorian. Some creepy bits there, it's interesting how the companions react to their imprisonment and as a Trekkie i didn't exactly mind time-magic. Alexius is an interesting character too.
I don't know about rainbows and unicorns Leliana, but you can get obey or die Lel as Divine with the Templars.
Hmm, I'm not done with my pro-Templar run yet, but so far all I see is that I gather a lot less hate.
Champions of the Just was a good level, but despite it all seeing the future was somehow more fun (I understand some people don't want time altered in any way, but I think it was interesting).
I'll see how it goes, but I think I'll make another pro-mage next time.
The mage quest doesn't make sense because Solas. If you have him with you he's there in the future, corrupted.
It's like they made the quest before they'd decided what to do.
Why can't Solas get corrupted by Red Lyrium in the future?
Hmm, I'm not done with my pro-Templar run yet, but so far all I see is that I gather a lot less hate.
Champions of the Just was a good level, but despite it all seeing the future was somehow more fun (I understand some people don't want time altered in any way, but I think it was interesting).
I'll see how it goes, but I think I'll make another pro-mage next time.
Love the Templar run. Currently playing as a mage too, which gives my choice that extra impact for my Inquisitor. Love that Dorian crashes through Haven's gates, and that fade bit in Therinfal Redoubt was great.
I've always sided with mages in Dragon Age - this is something different, and it's been pretty cool.
The mage quest doesn't make sense because Solas. If you have him with you he's there in the future, corrupted.
It's like they made the quest before they'd decided what to do.
I'm confused. What is your point? Solas isn't immune to the effects of red lyrium, and he's not truly immortal.
I'm confused. What is your point? Solas isn't immune to the effects of red lyrium, and he's not truly immortal.
What I really like about the way the Mage vs. Templar choice is set up is that both sides are idiots who have brought about their own destruction, but still sympathetic in that they have obviously been manipulated through their biggest weaknesses. Obviously, the Mages taking Tevinter's offer is really stupid, but Alexius hits them at the point where they are the most isolated, playing on their fear and isolation. Meanwhile, the Templar's blind obedience and willingness to use overly extreme measures to achieve their ends allows their entire order to be suborned by a single demon (i.e. number 2 on the list of "Things Templars Are Trained to Fight," right after "Bad Mages").
That said, I agree with the OP that doing Champions of the Just makes for a better story overall.
I think both missions are good, but I'd give a slide edge to the Templar path as well. I thought the struggle against the Envy demon was slightly more interesting than the trip to a future where Corypheus has won, and that the Templar path version of the Temple of Dumat was better. And Calpernia is more interesting character than Samson. Plus you get the whole war table chain with Ser Barris, that leads to one of the better judgement scenes in the game.
It's just you. Both groups are treated poorly by Bioware.
meh, templar run is harder than mage run on nightmare, especially fighting denam over fiona in haven attack. but while the mage run gives you a somewhat interesting story up front in its quest, templar run gives you better story down the line, as calpernia is a way more interesting character than samson...
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