Something I found out yesterday is if you refuse to do the flags, the one noble lives and you can send him a special gift in a judgement later.....a certian goat smacking chief.....so pro templar keeps getting better and better.
Modifié par BloodyTalon, 26 décembre 2014 - 12:35 .
Something I found out yesterday is if you refuse to do the flags, the one noble lives and you can send him a special gift in a judgement later.....a certian goal smacking chief.....so pro templar keeps getting better and better.
I feel like this is something I should do on my third playthrough. But I didn't grasp who the 'goal smacking chief' is.....
I feel like this is something I should do on my third playthrough. But I didn't grasp who the 'goal smacking chief' is.....
Goat smacking was a typo on my part.
You remember the avaar chief, you get a 4th option if the noble lives aand can send him to the noble has your envoy basically.
I prefer the templar story but i linger before entering the great hall so baris dies tbh
In my first templar run, I didn't manage to save Barris, guess I was trying to find everything possible and hesitated too long. I've just begun another try at this and hope to salvage him for the Inquisition. I actually really appreciated both the mage & templar stories and would find it hard to choose one as a favorite over the other?
- Corypheus: When I first got to the forums, I was surprised to see how many felt Corypheus was a complete nonentity, a blank. It took me awhile to realize most people had never set foot in the pro-Templar version of the Temple of Dumat, where you can find Corypheus's journals. His agony over the silence of his old god. His surprising respect for Calpernia, and his regret at using her for a vessel. Suddenly this alien, monstrous villain had an emotional complexity. The most interesting thing in the pro-mage run was a Tranquil who'd chosen to side with Samson of his own free will.
So am I way off on this...? Irrespective of which choice is "right," does the Templar path make the better story in DAI?
In the mage fade sequence you find the journal/diary from one of Corypheus' Elven slaves (under the Claw of Dumat if I remember correctly), which gives insight into Cory before he became Cory.
On my first play as a female mage I chose the mages because I typically am pro-mage. I enjoyed the trip into the future with Dorian and because I had planned to make a male Inquisitor on my second play to specifically romance him I also picked the mages on that play, even though I had originally intended to pick the templars on a second play; the decision was entirely motivated by the inclusion of Dorian.
Now that you mention this I am extremely curious and interested to see how Dorian reacts to this, given his own desire to return to Tevinter to change things.
Hm, while Dorian does certainly carry the mission, I do feel that the conflict with Alexius was developed fairly well. Not only do we have Dorian's personal history with him, but also his (Dorian's) interest in Felix's welfare. Taken along with the betrayal by Dorian's father, I tend to feel that Alexius's actions in trying to recruit Dorian for the Venatori -- to which Dorian also seems to regard as a betrayal of everything Alexius taught him -- adds to the development of Dorian's character for the player.
This is the primary reason I will have a difficult time foregoing siding with the mages in favor of the templars. I also really liked the personal connection that Cullen has to Samson and his reaction to everything. And far down the line of considerations is hearing Gideon Emery in yet another Dragon Age game.
However, you do make it sound extremely interesting, so I will definitely give it a try.
Since the confrontation takes place at the Temple of Mythal, I made sure to have Solas along as my token mage, so I don't know how Dorian reacts.
Gideon Emery is, of course, a major reason in the mages' favour. But of my five runs, two are pro-Templar and three (my canon included) are pro-mage. So I get to hear Balthier Fenris Samson in a couple og playthroughs yet 
I still find it funny that apparently the codex merchant managed to go to the bad future, get the codex entries, and have them available to purchase. lol game logic.
Clearly he's Dirthamen, Elven god of Secrets. While Sandal is the Maker.
This is why the gods are absent in Dragon Age. While Fen'Harel was sleeping and Mythal was body-surfing, the rest all went into business 
In the mage fade sequence you find the journal/diary from one of Corypheus' Elven slaves (under the Claw of Dumat if I remember correctly), which gives insight into Cory before he became Cory.
You can get that in a Templar run, too, but it's a codex of a slave thinking about his master. In a Templar run Temple of dumat, though, you get Cory's personal journals since he woke up, providing insight into his characters and views, and even some oddly redeeming qualities.
You know is it safe to say that the pro-templar way may be bioware canon this time instead of mages?
You know is it safe to say that the pro-templar way may be bioware canon this time instead of mages?
I don't know about that, for the simple reason that it feels like the game is pushing toward the mages. You can just walk into Redcliffe where you have to unlock Therinfal, and it requires less power to unlock Redcliffe Castle. Both Leliana and Josephine are pushing you toward Redcliffe, while only Cullen argues for Therinfal. Fiona is a known quantity, and you meet Dorian before you reach Redcliffe castle, whereas the only known character in the Templar run is Cole, and he's a surprise.
It does feel like it's a better story in the end, but I doubt that's something decided consciously in the writer's room.
I'm sure the power requirement for both Redcliffe and Therinfall is the same - 15 i think. Therinfall feels more because it appears later.I don't know about that, for the simple reason that it feels like the game is pushing toward the mages. You can just walk into Redcliffe where you have to unlock Therinfal, and it requires less power to unlock Redcliffe Castle. Both Leliana and Josephine are pushing you toward Redcliffe, while only Cullen argues for Therinfal. Fiona is a known quantity, and you meet Dorian before you reach Redcliffe castle, whereas the only known character in the Templar run is Cole, and he's a surprise.
It does feel like it's a better story in the end, but I doubt that's something decided consciously in the writer's room.
I dislike Fiona, and what happened to the Tranquil on her watch. I like Barris, who seems to be a decent guy.
That said, I just haven't been able to allow myself to side Templars, even just to see it. Considering they have done as much damage to innocent people as the templars have, they are no more 'good guys' than the templars you are fighting to save are 'bad guys'. I side mages only because the mages have children in their ranks. Fiona protests there are children among them when Alexius says he plans on sending them into war.
I'm sure the power requirement for both Redcliffe and Therinfall is the same - 15 i think. Therinfall feels more because it appears later.
I do agree that there is more urgency to do the mage part because you actually realize that you are about to have Tevinter at your doorstep, so it feels more relevant and a more observable threat. While with Templars you go there for no other reason than 'Templars are acting funny'.
You're right. For some reason I was sure Champions was 20. Sorry about that >_<
Clearly he's Dirthamen, Elven god of Secrets. While Sandal is the Maker.
This is why the gods are absent in Dragon Age. While Fen'Harel was sleeping and Mythal was body-surfing, the rest all went into business
and if you are a female elf, fen'harel might have been doing another type of sleeping
I'll go pro-Templar next playthrough (just to try it once - I'll dismantle the order), but maybe it's just me but I think that in that particular quest, pro-Mages feel more relevant. Ok, some didn't like the time travel thing... but I felt more urgency in the main story afterwards, knowing first-hand what's at stake! I had seen it. I had seen Leliana and the others suffering, and how the world was torn asunder. I needed to fix that. I couldn't let him win. And maybe it's because I am a fan of Leliana, but I thought the end of In hushed whispers was more exciting and emotional. I cried when she looked at me desperately a moment before the venatoris were going to kill her and I was waiting for the portal to open! (and that music). I guess I'm too pro-mages then! xD
I dislike Fiona, and what happened to the Tranquil on her watch. I like Barris, who seems to be a decent guy.
That said, I just haven't been able to allow myself to side Templars, even just to see it. Considering they have done as much damage to innocent people as the templars have, they are no more 'good guys' than the templars you are fighting to save are 'bad guys'. I side mages only because the mages have children in their ranks. Fiona protests there are children among them when Alexius says he plans on sending them into war.
Yes, prelly much. I was really exited to meet fiona and work with her, but after In Hushed Whispers I wasn't her biggest fan.
I'm trying to go a Templar playthrough at some point, but it's been super hard, particularly because their introduction in Val Royeaux is what it is. I mean I get Barris is a good guy at heart and he's dedicated to the Order and so on and so forth... but if I saw my superior punching a woman in the mouth just 'cause I'd probably consider not following him. I know he apparently sends you letter later going "S**t's getting weird here." ... you think? No! That can't be...
Whereas you get introduced to mages when Fiona asks for your help. Sure, you later discover Fiona has dunked her head into the deadly punch of desperation mixed with a healthy dose of dumb, but at least she mostly had good intentions. All in all it really comes down to which group you want to save from their leader - and in my opinion, asking help from a Tevinter magister is a step above making a deal with a demon, particularly when Fiona has children under her protection she's trying to take care of.
I still want to try out the Templar path though, but mostly because from what little I've heard, Calpernia sounds a much more interesting side-kick villain than Samson. Also, the Templar recruitment mission sounds like fun. I'll probably have to do a hardcore pro-Chantry, Templar-idolizing "Maker has chosen me" Trevelyan to pull it off role-playing -wise.
I'll go pro-Templar next playthrough (just to try it once - I'll dismantle the order), but maybe it's just me but I think that in that particular quest, pro-Mages feel more relevant. Ok, some didn't like the time travel thing... but I felt more urgency in the main story afterwards, knowing first-hand what's at stake! I had seen it. I had seen Leliana and the others suffering, and how the world was torn asunder. I needed to fix that. I couldn't let him win. And maybe it's because I am a fan of Leliana, but I thought the end of In hushed whispers was more exciting and emotional. I cried when she looked at me desperately a moment before the venatoris were going to kill her and I was waiting for the portal to open! (and that music). I guess I'm too pro-mages then! xD
Comletely agree - and Sacrifice is one of my favourite tracks on the soundtrack! It's really amazing. I wasn't a huge fan of Leliana before (not that I had anything against her either) but DA:I made me love her. Go Lils!
Also, IMO she makes the most interesting Divine.
I prefer the Mages side and the Mages quest.
Wow had no idea about the Cory thing. The only tidbit about him I found was in the Fade during the siege of Adamant written by his Elven slave, and I was super excited. Looks like I'll have to reload an old save and try doing the pro Templar mission once.
Quick question though, apart from the main mission change is there any other major change going pro Templar from pro Mage?
Overall I think I do prefer the Templar quest because playing through it is more interesting but at the same time I may still end up choosing the Mage Quest seven times out of ten. Mostly because I prefer to play elves and, unless Josephine is a miracle worker, I have a hard time believing that ten Orlesian noble families would rally around an upstart Dalish Elf.
Other than that, it's just the fact that it's a Tevinter Magister involved in what's going on at Redcliffe. Time magic and a hostile foreign power right within Fereldan's borders and in one of its more important towns always feels a bit more urgent to me. I mean, I know it's just the Venatori and not a chunk of Tevinter's army sitting in Redcliffe but it still doesn't seem like something you should just leave alone.
Not another thread about the morality of mages versus Templars - all my canon runs are pro-mage.
But I've done both pro-Templar and pro-Mage now, and I'm kind of glad I did the Templar run first. I think I understand and appreciate the story better because of it.
The reasons:
- Nemesis: Samson had a one-game head start on Calpernia, so he should have had the advantage where this stuff is concerned. But I didn't understand Samson's motives at all until he was giving testimony at his trial. I found myself sympathizing with ex-slave Calpernia, to the point where my pro-Templar templar Trevelyan pardoned her to return to Tevinter and make it better. When we last saw Samson he'd been sorely disillusioned with the mage cause, and now he was sided with the biggest-baddest mage of them all and his army of Tevinter cultists.
- Ally: Fiona was a known quantity too. I liked her from The Calling, many hated her. Her understated appearance in DAI didn't really change anyone's opinion of her. Some of the things she was doing seemed hard to fathom too, and when you get her she just kind of hangs out in the library. Ser Barris, meanwhile, has quickly become a fan favourite, and you can send him out on missions.
- Recruitment: The pro-Mage mission takes you into Redcliffe castle, which is a fairly standard dungeons in spite of the Fade rips. Much of it is carried by Dorian's sparkling personality. The central and interesting drama with Alexius and his son is not heavily developed. It also introduced time travel, which is an element most fans seemed to react badly too. The pro-Templar run was tense, exciting, and dramatic, and the dive into the Fade gave you insight into the darker side of Cassandra's character. The Fade was a pretty safe place to bring players (safer than time travel) and the battle against the Envy demon was epic.
- Corypheus: When I first got to the forums, I was surprised to see how many felt Corypheus was a complete nonentity, a blank. It took me awhile to realize most people had never set foot in the pro-Templar version of the Temple of Dumat, where you can find Corypheus's journals. His agony over the silence of his old god. His surprising respect for Calpernia, and his regret at using her for a vessel. Suddenly this alien, monstrous villain had an emotional complexity. The most interesting thing in the pro-mage run was a Tranquil who'd chosen to side with Samson of his own free will.
So am I way off on this...? Irrespective of which choice is "right," does the Templar path make the better story in DAI?
I haven't played Pro-Templar yet (I'm basically re-doing my initial playthrough except with a couple different choices and a much prettier face lol - #couldn'tstandhavinguglyinquisitor) - but this seems pretty compelling. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I also kept seeing Ser Barris mentioned everywhere and how he seemed so memorable but couldn't even remember seeing him. Makes sense now
I disliked the pro-templar quest personally. The dream sequence with Envy was cool, but I very much disliked babysitting Ser Barris. That fool templar should have been able to hold his own. I also don't understand people's obsession with him. He's kind of a coward in my opinion. I mean this supposed KISA watched an old women get punched in the face, and he just buckles under the combined power of authority and peer pressure, remaining silent. Not until everything goes to absolute s**t at Therinfall Redoubt does he think, "Maybe I should stand up against these red templars?"
I think if the Inquisitor goes to meet the mages at Redcliffe and learns of the threat of time magic, then the Inquisitor has more reason to go after the mages than the templars at that point (from a role-playing perspective the player's knowledge is separate from that of the inquisitor's). Time magic is more of a threat than an arrogant Lord Seeker from the the main character's point of view, I'm sure.
But not everyone truly role-plays. Many people self-insert with full knowledge of the game's eventual outcomes. So, in the end... whatever the player thinks is the best quest is the better story.
I think you can RP different characters who would feel different ways. In my first Templar playthrough, I am playing a female rogue/archer Lavellan who is anti-magic in many ways and distrustful of her Keeper and magic in general and who has a few encounters with human society before the conclave, including being saved from a remnant in the woods by a few traveling Templars. She comes to realize, through Mineave, that though she thought her clan had other ways, they were actually sending extra Mages into the woods - not a good system in her eyes, as she looks at the human Circle system and thinks it ideal for containing mages while treating them more humanely than sending them off on their own at 7. Minaeve also shares how Templars gave her food and were helpful. Vivienne shares how they can be helpful. Cullen is nice but mentions abuses that must be stopped. Whenever anyone talks about siding with the mages, all they mention is "freedom." Well, as a Dalish, Lavellan has seen her share of a group grasping at freedom - and she is skeptical that the kind of freedom people fuss about actually exists. Now, she was a bit sickened by the Templars at Val Royeux - they seemed to do their duty poorly. But she has no desire to work with Tevinter, and she is equally sickened by the Mages choices. She met Dorian, but didn't trust him. The clans don't go that far North for a reason. She also worried that mages near the Breach would lead to abominations, something she is terribly afraid of (she's scared of demons and such). I had no trouble with her consulting the Templars even after going to Redcliffe - her plan was to try and convince the Templars to help her take back the Castle. It's not like when RPing, I know I will lose the chance to deal with the other situation entirely - you're just picking who to best help with the Breach, which she felt was the Templars. Her impression of the mages was that even the ones who disagreed with the conscription were going to do what Fiona said, for whatever reason - three complain, none of them give good reasons, and she doesn't understand why they don't just leave the Mage Rebellion and come with the Inquisition if they're so unhappy. A distrust of mages and magic will get you far with RPing, and it's not odd for the universe. And this is a weird example because an Elf admiring the Templars is a bit odd, yes, but it felt natural with the background I had created. Inspired by Mineave.
As for Ser Barris - I think that guy is awesome and he does feel badly about not standing up sooner, but I think people underestimate the power of the chain of command in military forces. It is absolute. That he stood up ever, that he expresses doubts publicly when you arrive and at Val Royeux, these are all brave, considering he's part of a military-like Order. As to running back to the Hall, I think it's dumb enough that your party eventually kills the demon without the Templars there (I headcanon they weakened it) because really it taking 30+ low-level templars, a butt-ton of lyrium, and a few Veterans to hold off a powerful Envy demon for awhile is one of the best representations of how Templars really fight demons and abominations so far, in terms of matching the lore. .
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