440 réponses à ce sujet

[Lee80]

Honestly I felt like siding with templars was the the less developed path.  While the quest to find out more about Calpernia was interesting, it was really short-and you can even talk her out of fighting all together.  

 

I felt like it left the end game a bit more dry, because with the mage side of the story you have to push into emprise Du Lion which is one of the highest leveled areas in the game (only topped by Hissing wastes) to complete the samson side quest.  

 

I guess if you prefer not to do a lot of end game side quests though, it's pretty even.  Still-low level side quest that's over early game, an enemy that can be talked into giving up-meh I like Samson's content a lot more!

[Aramintai]

Hmm, seems a lot of people like templars quest more but for me it was the other way around. Except for better (and creepier) Cole introduction it was boring. Fiona may be a backstabbing ****** to the mages but I liked that time travel twist, the real sense of urgency that you need to help the rebeles, Dorian's quirky banter and Leliana there was just awesome, reminded me of the Sacred Ashes trailer in DA:O.

But I do see why it seems inferior to the templars - devs seem to have taken their side as the default one. You can see it by all the dissaprovals you'll be getting by voicing your support for mages freedom. And they haven't even bothered to make a different animation and sounds for mages during Breach closing. I sometimes wonder why they even gave us this choice since the game just intends to punish players for it. I suppose some stupidity like rampant use of blood magic and abominations followed by forceful jailing of all mages back into Circles will be used to write off this bold and progressive choice in the next DA installement, just like OGB was. 

[Lulupab]

Alexius' trick was very good though. Many people actually left the village in fear of a Templar invasion (which is a Alexius's trick, there is no invasion), an invasion which Ferelden or the Arl is doing nothing to stop.

 

Almost everyone in Redcliff is fooled by Alexius that Templars are going to burn down Redcliff, Fiona is one of this majority and she accepted the only help offered. If Templars actually attacked, this was the wisest decision she could make.

 

[TK514]

From a gameplay perspective, the Mage quest is certainly less interesting than the Templar one. There nothing that mirrors the 'find the captains while defending the great hall', or even the Flag ceremony decision leading to a potential agent. There's never any sense that you could actually lose something important by failing. It's just another standard dungeon with nothing unique about it.

A shame, really.

[Ieldra]

@OP:

I like "In Hushed Whispers" better than "Champions of the Just". No matter the gameplay mechanics, I found the the story aspects of the mage mission way more interesting than those of the templar mission, and Alexius a way more interesting antagonist than the envy demon, which left me completely cold.

 

However, for the rest of the game I agree that the pro-templar version makes for a better story. So much better, in fact, that I regret not having it for my main Inquisitor.

[kyles3]

I'll go pro-Templar next playthrough (just to try it once - I'll dismantle the order), but maybe it's just me but I think that in that particular quest, pro-Mages feel more relevant. Ok, some didn't like the time travel thing... but I felt more urgency in the main story afterwards, knowing first-hand what's at stake! I had seen it. I had seen Leliana and the others suffering, and how the world was torn asunder. I needed to fix that. I couldn't let him win. And maybe it's because I am a fan of Leliana, but I thought the end of In hushed whispers was more exciting and emotional. I cried when she looked at me desperately a moment before the venatoris were going to kill her and I was waiting for the portal to open! (and that music). I guess I'm too pro-mages then! xD

 

Totally agree. Darkest Timeline Leliana's sacrifice might be my favorite part of the story. The Templar branch has its share of interesting content, for sure, but nothing that good.

[SgtSteel91]

From a gameplay perspective, the Mage quest is certainly less interesting than the Templar one. There nothing that mirrors the 'find the captains while defending the great hall', or even the Flag ceremony decision leading to a potential agent. There's never any sense that you could actually lose something important by failing. It's just another standard dungeon with nothing unique about it.

A shame, really.

 

You're stuck in the future where the bad guys win that will happen if you don't find a way to get back. The entire environment is your reminder, not some gamey timer-till-failure, and the epitome of 'show, don't tell' for what happens to the world and the people living in it if you fail in your quest.

[Ryzaki]

Eh dark future Leliana bored me.

 

I knew it ultimately meant nothing because I'd go back in time and all that crap wouldn't have happened.

 

Big whoop.

[kyles3]

Eh dark future Leliana bored me.

 

I knew it ultimately meant nothing because I'd go back in time and all that crap wouldn't have happened.

 

Big whoop.

 

Meant something to me. She was a person who actually lived through some ****, even if we only meet her briefly. I felt the game got this across pretty well.

 

The envy demon's cornball nightmare world is what bored me. It was obvious immediately what was going on and I just wanted to get it over with. Cole's part was cool, but overall I think In Hushed Whispers told a better story.

[Kieran G.]

You can unlock it by a War Table mission fairly late in the game.  It unlocks in either pro-mage or pro-Templar, but it's completely different inside.

 

I unlocked it before i even met stroud. i think you have to be a certain level to start it, not be at a certain point in the story.

[Hydwn]

I unlocked it before i even met stroud. i think you have to be a certain level to start it, not be at a certain point in the story.

 

Weird.  I kept wondering why the Cullen mission didn't op in my second playthrough and when I read the Prima guide it turned out it was because I hadn't done wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, only Into the abyss.  Maybe the mechanics of the Calpernia missions are different...?

[Milan92]

Yeah, its nice to be able to choose a side but not necessarily agree with them. Still, I can't in good faith condemn the mages

Its not like they condemned each other when they sold themselves into servitude to Tevinter.

Oh wait.

[Kieran G.]

Weird.  I kept wondering why the Cullen mission didn't op in my second playthrough and when I read the Prima guide it turned out it was because I hadn't done wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, only Into the abyss.  Maybe the mechanics of the Calpernia missions are different...?

Yeah i don't quite know, i just know i was already helping Cullen track samson to his Lair before i did Wicked Eyes.

 

Though that playthrough was buggy since right after i acquired skyhold before i even met hawke i could venture to the Western Approach, so it could easily just be that my game was bugged.

[SurelyForth]

Meant something to me. She was a person who actually lived through some ****, even if we only meet her briefly. I felt the game got this across pretty well.

 

The envy demon's cornball nightmare world is what bored me. It was obvious immediately what was going on and I just wanted to get it over with. Cole's part was cool, but overall I think In Hushed Whispers told a better story.

 

Yeah, this is how I feel about it. In In Hushed Whispers, you see the people you brought with you actually reduced to shell versions of themselves after having endure a year of torture/imprisonment/apocalypse. Even knowing I can undo the world state, I find it to have an emotional impact that nothing in Champions of the Just can touch. Plus, the Herald doesn't know they'll succeed in getting back to the present, nor are they assured a victory even if they do. That horrible future is a possibility until Corypheus is officially dead- even as they deal with the assassination plot and the demon army, there is always a chance Corypheus will get ahead of them and find a way to get what he wants.

 

With Champions of the Just, it's just too disjointed (the whole noble thing came out of nowhere and felt incredibly forced) and the nightmare hinges too much on scenarios that don't really matter because they're clearly manufactured to illicit a reaction for Envy to study and use. The only bright spot is Cole's introduction (to the Herald and to the Inquisition), and while I really love that part of it, the rest just is either meh or annoying (timed events are the devil's work).  

[Ryzaki]

Meant something to me. She was a person who actually lived through some ****, even if we only meet her briefly. I felt the game got this across pretty well.

 

The envy demon's cornball nightmare world is what bored me. It was obvious immediately what was going on and I just wanted to get it over with. Cole's part was cool, but overall I think In Hushed Whispers told a better story.

 

that's why I love branching paths. We both get to win.

 

And I feel the exact same way but replace envy demon with Alexius dark future and Hushed Whispers with Champions of the Just

 

Leliana looking like a zombie did nothing for me but make me lol. Her slitting Felix's throat anyway was more annoying than anything. The drama of them dying again is lessened by the whole "well this is just a bad future and this will never happen anyway" bit. And I guess I should've felt more...something towards Dorian and Alexius but all I felt was aggravation about Fiona being dumb enough to side with Alexius in the first place. Alexius following that up by derping and thinking it's a good idea to side with Corypheus made it worse. I just rather side with the templars and let the mages stupid lead them to it's inevitable conclusion. Especially since I can get rid of most of the templar stupid myself.

 

Also it really doesn't help that I can't call the mages out on what they did to the tranquil. That was just one more annoyance to the pile.

[TK514]

You're stuck in the future where the bad guys win that will happen if you don't find a way to get back. The entire environment is your reminder, not some gamey timer-till-failure, and the epitome of 'show, don't tell' for what happens to the world and the people living in it if you fail in your quest.

Not really. At no time during the entire mage mission did I feel one iota of concern that I might actually fail to achieve anything. It was a forgone conclusion that I would return to the past and deal with Alexius and steamroll the entire thing, just like every other so-called 'tense moment'. The Mage quest is a linear slog through a poor attempt at shock visuals. Oh no, my companions are all red and sparkly and say they're going to die! Oh no, Leliana is all tortured and prematurely old looking. Shocking (yawn) revelations that I know the moment they are revealed will have exactly zero lasting effect. There are no secondary objectives, hidden or orherwise, and no chance of anything you do in that future actually mattering, because it isn't going to exist when you're done.

At least the Templar side actually allows you the potential to fail at secondary objectives, with consequences, and does so twice. You actually have to make decisions and work effectively, or you will absolutely lose an advisor and some of the better war table missions. Important NPCs can die on the Templar side, changing available future actions in the game. What does the Mage side offer that is even remotely comparable?

[Ruairi46]

Who is Ser Barris, I feel like I must of missed him on my templar playthrough? As I was wondering myself why there was no equivalent of Fiona for the Templars.

[Ryzaki]

Who is Ser Barris, I feel like I must of missed him on my templar playthrough? As I was wondering myself why there was no equivalent of Fiona for the Templars.

 

D:

 

How did you miss blessed Ser Barris?

 

 

He's the templar you first meet the one the noble's a massive douche too.

 

If you want to keep him alive just keep going back to the hall when your companions start complaining that Barris needs backup.

[Ashagar]

Yes Sir Barris, like some of the Templars you meet in the previous games lives up to what the Templars are supposed to be and you can make him the leader of the Templars after a series of war table missions involving him.

[Eggplant Hell Princess]

I don't really see why we couldn't have done both missions outside of the devs wanting to create artificial replay value. The main story could have used some extra quests anyway.

 

Anyway, I honestly liked both. It really depends on what you're into. Calpernia is my bby girl though.

[Lulupab]

Meant something to me. She was a person who actually lived through some ****, even if we only meet her briefly. I felt the game got this across pretty well.

 

The envy demon's cornball nightmare world is what bored me. It was obvious immediately what was going on and I just wanted to get it over with. Cole's part was cool, but overall I think In Hushed Whispers told a better story.

 

Me too, she survived a year of torture and sacrificed herself to help you. That's why she'd make a damn good divine. She has proven hardships does not break her.

 

Ser Barris is a good templar but ultimately uninteresting as a character and irrelevant to story.

[Shark17676]

I preferred siding with the mages myself.

 

The gradual implosion of the Templars, driven mad and turned into monsters by red lyrium (for which Meredith was a precursor), made for some really great drama.

 

I was very "meh" with the Venitori.

 

Also:

 

Red Templar fall of Haven final boss >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Venitori fall of Haven final boss

[Shark17676]

Me too, she survived a year of torture and sacrificed herself to help you. That's why she'd make a damn good divine. She has proven hardships does not break her.

 

To be fair, though, Cassandra and Vivienne prove the same if you took them along on the quest.

 

Although Liliana probably suffered more torture than most.

[Shark17676]

I don't really see why we couldn't have done both missions outside of the devs wanting to create artificial replay value. The main story could have used some extra quests anyway.

 

Word.

I'd have enjoyed doing the Templar quest later in the game when, for example, you've established a romance.

 

The throat-slitting scene in Envy's nightmare would've had so much more impact if the victim had been your LI.

[Hydwn]

Word.

I'd have enjoyed doing the Templar quest later in the game when, for example, you've established a romance.

 

The throat-slitting scene in Envy's nightmare would've had so much more impact if the victim had been your LI.

 

You can't really lock in an LI by that point, so it wouldn't quite have worked.

 

I would have liked an opportunity to find Corypheus's journals in a pro-Mage run too, though they would have altered somewhat.  I doubt he cared about Samson like he cared about Calpernia, and there would have been less angst in them.  Maybe we could have seen things in the Envy's demons patch of the Fade?