You can't really lock in an LI by that point, so it wouldn't quite have worked.
Did you read the second line of my post?
It's all under the assumption that the mission would work out a bit differently if you had already sided with the mages, doing it significantly later in the game (at the point where you are able to establish a romance), but the overarching plot was still the same.
Did you read the second line of my post?
It's all under the assumption that the mission would work out a bit differently if you had already sided with the mages, doing it significantly later in the game (at the point where you are able to establish a romance), but the overarching plot was still the same.
Yeah, if you could do the templar missions after locking in your LI, that scene would have had more of an impact.
That said, I love in hushed wisphers, such a creepy atmosphere and I have no problem with a time travel mission. I thought it was cool. And I felt it revealed Cory's intention to kill the empress in a more impactful way than the Templar mission. Not to mention you got to side with the mages to get the college of enchanters ending so its must for me.
Eh dark future Leliana bored me.
I knew it ultimately meant nothing because I'd go back in time and all that crap wouldn't have happened.
Big whoop.
I disagree, watching my companions die for me, watching Leliana sacrifice herself, not for a second chance but for a hope of a second chance was one of the most impactful moments of the game for me. Up to this game, I felt Bioware didn't do a very good job with death (and they still missed the mark with some of the death in the game), but that moment was epic. Whether it happens or not, It was a future she lived and suffered through, even if you work to prevent it and adds urgency to the quest to stop Corypheus.
But then, admittedly, I haven't been able to force myself to do the templar side yet.
To each their own.
I missed a lot of what other people were talking about online by going pro-Templar the first time around. I was like...what?! Time travel? When did that happen?
Then I did my second playthrough, chose the mages, and understood.
But honestly, having played both now, I think I liked the Templar side better. No creepy time-travel doom scenario, I do agree the setting was more dynamic, got to see more of and understand where Cole initially came from, fought alongside Ser Barris...yep. If I ever go for a third playthrough, I think I'd go for the Templars again. Choosing mages was just...meh after that. (Although I was heartbroken when I found out that since I'd chosen the Templars, it meant I wouldn't get to see the ONE King Alistair cameo and in my second playthrough, I decided to import a save where he'd stayed with the Wardens so... 
)
D:
How did you miss blessed Ser Barris?
He's the templar you first meet the one the noble's a massive douche too.
If you want to keep him alive just keep going back to the hall when your companions start complaining that Barris needs backup.
When I first saw Barris in Val Royeaux, he reminded me of the blue-haired Misfit. (Does anyone here get that reference?) He is clearly the guy who is going to be on your side if you pick the Templars, because he's all reasonable and "What if she is sent by the Maker?" and "Hey! Don't hit old ladies!"
When I first saw Barris in Val Royeaux, he reminded me of the blue-haired Misfit. (Does anyone here get that reference?) He is clearly the guy who is going to be on your side if you pick the Templars, because he's all reasonable and "What if she is sent by the Maker?" and "Hey! Don't hit old ladies!"
Stormer? She was one of my favorite characters in the series, even over some of the Holograms.
Thats how I RP-ed it as well, that scene hurt my character, I thought it was good.I played it through again last night with my dual-dagger fireball rogue and up til this point she didn't particularly care for Cullen. Seeing what Envy played out in her head did hit home (from what I've read Cullen says the same thing to everybody), so I will use that as a RP jumping point.
I perfectly understand your reasoning, being a fangirl myself.I just really like the resolution you can give Cullen with the Samson line. The convo you get with him where he contemplates what could have been and how if things had happened differently, he could have been a red templar...that's one of my favorite scenes in the game. Because of this, I usually end up picking mages by default (even though I would love to throw dirt in Fiona's face). It's probably not the best way to RP though, which is why for my current characters (2h warrior goddess and dual-dagger fireball) I'm going to end up picking the Templars because that's what they would do given the situation.
i think you've just given me a solid reason to go through with the mage story-line. I was pretty determined not to side with mages ever. 
Damn, i wish Fiona just wasnt such an idiot and Barris didnt have to die. At least Viv really calls Fiona out on her idiocy if you take her to Redcliff. Small comfort. And I liked the whole Calpernia/Leli questline because Leli is easily one of my favorites in Inquisition.
Thats how I RP-ed it as well, that scene hurt so my character, I thought it was good.
I perfectly understand your reasoning, being a fangirl myself.
Well, watching her son tell Fiona she wasn't welcome in Ferelden anymore was the most satisfying part of that quest. I hate that ****** and wish there was an option to just gut her, or at least slap her for being stupid.
Word.
I'd have enjoyed doing the Templar quest later in the game when, for example, you've established a romance.
The throat-slitting scene in Envy's nightmare would've had so much more impact if the victim had been your LI.
Well, watching her son tell Fiona she wasn't welcome in Ferelden anymore was the most satisfying part of that quest. I hate that ****** and wish there was an option to just gut her, or at least slap her for being stupid.
When I first saw Barris in Val Royeaux, he reminded me of the blue-haired Misfit. (Does anyone here get that reference?) He is clearly the guy who is going to be on your side if you pick the Templars, because he's all reasonable and "What if she is sent by the Maker?" and "Hey! Don't hit old ladies!"
A truly outrageous reference.
I disliked mostly the part that she felt she was right all the time, and then apparently she just hangs around skyhold without doing anything to restore mages. At least Barris gets his hands dirty and takes the blame.
But maybe this is good writing - creating a character that you absolutely hate. I know ive been asking for a darker undertone to the game, maybe this is what Fiona is supposed to be, a very bad entitled leader who people follow surprisingly.
It's a wonder anyone even talks to her once you get to Skyhold, much less follows her, considering she botched the rebellion and sold them all into slavery.
Word.
I'd have enjoyed doing the Templar quest later in the game when, for example, you've established a romance.
The throat-slitting scene in Envy's nightmare would've had so much more impact if the victim had been your LI.
I supposed they could have done it the other way around as well for those who preferred to get the Templars first.Picture going to the future and seeing your lover helpless with red Lyrium growing out of them like Fiona was.
Thats how I RP-ed it as well, that scene hurt my character, I thought it was good.
I perfectly understand your reasoning, being a fangirl myself.
Next time I run a mage I will likely recruit the mages first. I will have to take your suggestion and bring Viv with me! My first PT was a human mage and it was so rushed because I just wanted to see the main story - I skipped A LOT. I ended up going pro-templar because I didn't know it would lock me out of Cullen's nemesis questline. I believe I will need to re-roll my human mage now that I can slow down and do more of a completionist run.
I supposed they could have done it the other way around as well for those who preferred to get the Templars first.Picture going to the future and seeing your lover helpless with red Lyrium growing out of them like Fiona was.
HA! When I saw Fiona like that I actually had to snicker and say "serves you right..." 
Interesting...2 play throughs so far to the mages, but next time I'll give Templars a try.
Is there a difference between allying or conscripting them? I allied with them since I wanted to see the order rebuilt and not become slaves for the inquisition, they aren't mages.
Is there a difference between allying or conscripting them? I allied with them since I wanted to see the order rebuilt and not become slaves for the inquisition, they aren't mages.
It changes the epilogue and party reactions - so roleplay primarily. Most people in the party will want you to ally with one side and conscript the other - anti-magers prefer conscripting mages and recruiting templars for instance. Varric's preferences match Hawke's in DA2. Blackwall always prefers "ally."
And the ending alters a bit too, in the slideshow.
No I'm asking cause I see a lot of people who agree that conscripting them is the best solution, why?
I agree with your assessment.
In DA:O I only did one play-through pro Templar just to see the content. I also did only one play-through that was pro Templar in DA2 again just to see the content. In DA:I i will also be doing another play through just once to see the content and this time it will be the pro mage side. i don't think I will ever again pick the mages for all the reason listed and because of the following...
I would also add that the Templar side of the game does a better job at bringing cole and Dorian into the inquisition. Meeting Dorian in Redcliffe and then again outside the gates of haven is a great two prong introduction. He already warns you that you are in danger in the chantry and when he appears at your front gates before the assault it is believable that he is on your side. With the pro mage play through you get cole appearing just as you are under attack saying ' came to warn you of the attack.' And i am suppose to just let him into the gates? A guy appearing at the gate just as the enemy arrives saying let me in I am on your side, and i am suppose to believe him? This introduction for cole just isn't believable.
Yet if you meet cole at the redoubt castle you have every reason to trust him as he helps you defeat the envy demon in the fade and in the battle. he shows why he is a valuable member of the inquisition and you really believe he wants to help people. So when you talk to him in skyhold and he wants to kill the suffering soldier you have context and you can see he's not a dangerous lunatic with a knife. That conversation is far more creepy if you pick the mages. Why would anyone honestly trust cole in a pro mage game if you didn't already know he was a companion and have some idea of this backstory?
On a side note i found that seeing how the mages responded to their freedom did make me not so pro mage like I was in the past two games. i really don't want to see a world with no circles. I could get into a whole list of things that changed by view but that isn't really the purpose of teh thread.
The truth is the story arc is better written on the pro Templar side. I do find it funny that many pro mage people are upset about this but if they recall the pro Templar sides in DA:O and DA2 where pretty hollow in comparison to the pro mage story in both of those games. I don't recall them complaining then about it being unfair.
Well, watching her son tell Fiona she wasn't welcome in Ferelden anymore was the most satisfying part of that quest. I hate that ****** and wish there was an option to just gut her, or at least slap her for being stupid.
I agree...
DA:I REALLY made me look at the mages and go WTF? This is what you do with your freedom? You spent years claiming you are not a danger to people and what happens when you are leave the circles?
1) You get apostates that ritually murder people in their basement (storm coasts)
2) You get people who really don't have the ability to stop demons from possessing them (grand mother's cabin hinterlands) seems that isn't propaganda but a real danger not something invented to keep mages down.
3) A bunch of you strike out to become as gods according to a note in the hinterlands (the apostates in the hinterlands)
4) Ocularum skulls, when you find them in redcliffe there is a note about how they are killing tranquil to make them. Who is doing it? It can't be venetori putting them up in the hinterlands as their number are not high enough to put them all over ferelden yet And if trevinter mages are doing this it would be noticed, a bunch of trevinter soldiers or mages putting put these post all over ferelden would cause a reaction. yet free mages that have been given leave to stay in your country COULD move around relatively unnoticed putting up the Ocularum. Even if the mages don't know it is tranquil being killed (which I highly doubt as that many tranquil that go missing from your number is going to be noticed) you are putting Human/elf skulls on posts that means SOMEONE had to die. But no need to take a moral stand?
5) So many mages refused to stand up when they KNOW siding with trevinter is the wrong course of action. Its all 'well my leaders said we should do something i know is wrong so I am just going to do it.'
6) You encounter a mage summoning demons in a cave in the hinterlands
7) I don't know about anyone else but if you claim that there is no need to lock you up and you are granted leave to come to a fortified location for your protection as guests you don't show everyone you are not a danger by kicking you host out and siding with an enemy nation who are heretics in a very religious society. All those actions just proved you can't be trusted that you will turn on non magic users as people are taught because your first acts of freedom are to attack the very people who gave you sanctuary.
These are things just in the game I don't see the templar crimes equal to the mages. (Which is not to say I don't think the Templars need reform or that many of their number don't need to be tried for their crimes.)
All the things people were told about mages and why they can't be left to their own devices but must be monitored is proven true in DA:I. I could view the multiple blood mages in DA:O and DA2 as aberrations and I could gloss over the fact that in both the kirkwall circle and the Ferelden circles the very top member of the leadership were corrupted as.. well... a coincidence but after DA:I I just want to arrest and try the mage leadership for their actions.
When I compare things with the Templars i see a vast gulf, their leadership was either killed, corrupted by red lyrium or replaced by a demon and even then they HAD to cull so many Templars because too many of them had a moral compass that would NOT go along with things. (Even siding with the mages you see this with a chargers war table mission). There is no great mage culling because they wont make a stand when things go too far. They just ****** about their leaders while obeying what they tell them to do.
I once was firmly in the pro mage camp but always view them a potentially dangerous now i see that their freedom is not the answer. i never would have thought I would be pro Templar after DA:I as all my games i always went pro mage in DA:O and DA2 except once for each game just to see the content.
I disagree, watching my companions die for me, watching Leliana sacrifice herself, not for a second chance but for a hope of a second chance was one of the most impactful moments of the game for me. Up to this game, I felt Bioware didn't do a very good job with death (and they still missed the mark with some of the death in the game), but that moment was epic. Whether it happens or not, It was a future she lived and suffered through, even if you work to prevent it and adds urgency to the quest to stop Corypheus.
But then, admittedly, I haven't been able to force myself to do the templar side yet.
To each their own.
Yeah that lost all it's impact for me because time travel plot. In the end it doesn't matter. Where's Barras can actually die and stay dead so I find myself hurry to get the materials needed because that's an actual consequence that will stick with me for the rest of the game.
But to each their own agreed
I agree...
I disagree.
Your first meeting with Fiona is her inviting you to talk with her about an alliance in Redcliff. Everything after that was changed by the Venatori and their Time Magic. The Mages had no hope of resisting Alexius and the Venatori with their ability save scum until they got the right words and actions to all but force Fiona into thinking allying with them is her only choice. The Rebel Mages, including Fiona, don't like this decision but think it's either that or death because of Alexius' and his Venatori sleeper agents within the Rebellion manipulating them. And even then the Venatori's plan was to brainwash the Rebels into working for Corypheus.
It is exactly like the Templars, the Mages want to do good but are subverted by outside forces that will force them to serve the Big Bad or be killed without the Inquisition's help. And when you do ally with the Mages, nothing goes wrong. They help you, and in the best case scenario, rehabilitate their image and enjoy acceptance throughout Thedas.
Fiona is a old women, do you really expect her to go out into the fields fighting Demons and Red Templars?
She's managing the Inquisiton's Mages at Skyhold like your advisors do with your soldiers, scouts, and diplomats. She's the one who gives you the location of other Mage hideouts to bring into the fold in the Wartable mission Reclaim the Mage Rebllion.
Um, I think I probably shouldn't go into this discussion but this is a very bad argument. Wynne is much older in DAO and she kicks some serious butt, so does Loghain and he has no advantage of a spirit inside him but a taint that is killing him. Age in not an issue in DA universe.
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