32 réponses à ce sujet

[Exalus]

I've started my second run, this time on nightmare from the get go but I have found the game becomes vastly less challenging after reaching skyhold due to 2 things:

-lootable tier 3 schematics from hissing wastes

-the incredible power of certain specializations like rift mage and tempest

 

How do I make a run in NM that is challenging in the right ways without purposely over gimping myself?
So far I have kept from buying any schematics and relying on drops and static loot alone, absolutely not exploit respawning chests to farm t3 schematics and amulet of powers and not using flask of fire+ thousand cuts oversight. But even then I was able to kill Highland Ravager at level 17 with a modest gear setup and while it was very challenging and rewarding, I doubt it will be when im level 20-23.

 

Somethings I considered:

-limiting myself to tier 1 gear only (makes fights take forever)

-limiting myself to tier 2 gear only (makes fights take much longer)

-Limiting myself to only x amount of tier 3 gear for the party 

-Not using any warrior tank (not sure if its possible and it would be a lot of micromanagement)

-Having only 3, 2 or even only 1 party member (detracts from the fun and banter)

-Not using specializations at all (detracts from a lot of the fun)
 

 

Basically, I want to be able to optimize my skills and gear as much as possible but still have the game be a challenge past skyhold.

[DiscoGhost]

i like the gear limitations idea for tier1 or 2. maybe no buying anything? only use crafted gear. allow each member a tier3 piece and then all tier 2?

dont take perks that give you more flasks/potions. dont use potions at all?

dont take the upgraded versions of active talents? or limit yourself to only 5 talents per tree?

no runes on weapons?

no weapon or armor additions?

a non sword/board warrior tank is also a good idea. 

take a full party, taking less detracts from the fun of the banter and story. 

 

or who ever you make your inquisitor, do an all (x class) run thru. all mages, warriors, or rogues. 

[GuyNice]

http://forum.bioware...re-challenging/

[ashwind]

Err... I simply cant stop looking for schematics. I simply dont make them with the best materials. I have never exploited the Amulet of Power. It is silly... really silly.

 

However, my biggest nightmare is looking ugly so I got to find them schematics. 

[GuyNice]

Someone around here suggested not crafting weapons, only armor, which I really liked. Combine that with whatever material/masterwork limitations you think are necessary. It let's you customize your looks but removes alot of the OP gear from the equation.

[teks]

The problem wih that is how it hurts dual wield rogues.
dual wield rogues kinda depend on fast kills since they have such poor survival. Using crappy weapons on a rogue is like casterating them.
a mage retains control and barrier.
a warrior retains his guard and shield wall.
the rogue suffers.

[Madrict]

It shouldn't be up to players to invent fake ways to find challenge on the hardest difficulty setting.

 

Nightmare is too easy once you get some decent gear and certain specs. It should remain challenging throughout. That is the point of playing on nightmare and I feel it is missing

 

Bioware should work on ways to increase the difficulty on nightmare, otherwise entire zones just become grey and pointless with no challenge

[Pacman]

It shouldn't be up to players to invent fake ways to find challenge on the hardest difficulty setting.

 

Nightmare is too easy once you get some decent gear and certain specs. It should remain challenging throughout. That is the point of playing on nightmare and I feel it is missing

 

Bioware should work on ways to increase the difficulty on nightmare, otherwise entire zones just become grey and pointless with no challenge

 

I dont even remember the last time I played a game where I actually had any problems with difficulty. I always create my own restrictions to make a game hard. I see no problem in that as long as I enjoy the gameplay. While I would love some difficulty additions from developers, creating your own difficulty can be just as fun.

[ashwind]

It shouldn't be up to players to invent fake ways to find challenge on the hardest difficulty setting.

 

Nightmare is too easy once you get some decent gear and certain specs. It should remain challenging throughout. That is the point of playing on nightmare and I feel it is missing

 

Bioware should work on ways to increase the difficulty on nightmare, otherwise entire zones just become grey and pointless with no challenge

 

Matter of fact is, certain gear and specs makes certain characters unkillable. How could they "increase" that difficulty?    If something can hurt a well build champion, it will vaporize anything else it touches. 

 

[p/s]

Want a challenge, you have to place some limitation on yourself. No game developer will make a difficulty for the minority. The same goes for other game. I still remember Bioshock Infinite 1999 mode... significantly increases difficulty. Yet nothing can hurt me (including handyman) and everything dies in a hit... 

[GuyNice]

Matter of fact is, certain gear and specs makes certain characters unkillable. How could they "increase" that difficulty?    If something can hurt a well build champion, it will vaporize anything else it touches. 

They could cap damage reduction at 75-90% so your tank takes more than 1 damage... Or make the damage reduction passives in the W&S tree calculate after armor, instead of before, which makes them insanely powerful even compared to gear mitigation. Not that complicated is it?  

[ashwind]

They could cap damage reduction at 75-90% so your tank takes more than 1 damage... Or make the damage reduction passives in the W&S tree calculate after armor, instead of before, which makes them insanely powerful even compared to gear mitigation. Not that complicated is it?  

 

This will require them to rebalance and retest everything; balancing is ALWAYS complicated. Anyone who has written a few lines of game code will tell you that. If tanks could not tank the damage, I fully expect a mage to die in a hit and a rogue in 1.5. 

 

Even if they do make those changes, there will always b those who complain that it is too easy or too hard. Nobody knows your limit better than yourself, hence placing restriction on yourself is the best way to go.

[GuyNice]

This will require them to rebalance and retest everything; balancing is ALWAYS complicated. Anyone who has written a few lines of game code will tell you that. If tanks could not tank the damage, I fully expect a mage to die in a hit and a rogue in 1.5. 

 

Even if they do make those changes, there will always b those who complain that it is too easy or too hard. Nobody knows your limit better than yourself, hence placing restriction on yourself is the best way to go.

If they change the W&S passives it will have no effect on rogues on mages. If a rogue/mage passed 90% damage reduction the game was probably too easy for them.

 

If people complain the game is too hard they should play on a lower difficulty setting than nightmare. If the game becomes trivially easy on nightmare there is a balance problem which should be addressed.

[ashwind]

If they change the W&S passives it will have no effect on rogues on mages. If a rogue/mage passed 90% damage reduction the game was probably too easy for them.

 

If people complain the game is too hard they should play on a lower difficulty setting than nightmare. If the game becomes trivially easy on nightmare there is a balance problem which should be addressed.

 

80% damage reduction can be done without W&S passive. Mages have barrier spam, wimp that as well or people will cry again KE is easy. Give enemies more perceptive trait so that rogues can walk around unseen forever?

 

Out of the millions of copy sold, how many are complaining that nightmare is trivially easy? Probably the same amount of people who complain that casual is too tedious.

 

Not putting on a piece of equipment or not clicking a skill is easily as easy. Sometimes I wonder, why do people have this logic - If it is in the game, I must absolutely make use of it and when I absolutely use everything and the game is easy, there is a problem with balancing. How hard is it to NOT use something? 

 

People who are asking for balance basically cannot fathom what they are asking for: 100 players asking for "challenging" -YET- each of them have a different standard of what is "challenging". It is basically an impossible task. I have been there, listen to all these requests and tried to entertain them. It was a time when I was naive.

[GuyNice]

I actually impose alot of self restrictions to keep the challenge. On my 4th playthrough I'm doing: no weapon crafting, tier 2 schematics or tier 3 schem tier 1 mat armor max (minimum level required for tier3 schem: 18), 8 potions cap, no hidden blades MW, no guard on hit MW, no fade cloak etc. etc. So I AM enjoying the game and I haven't quit because of the issues. I just think the developers have a responsibility to make the hardest difficulty called NIGHTMARE actually challenging. I mean taking 1 damage on your tank, which can be achieved at level 8~, is just stupid!

 

About KE, that's a separate issue and requires a balance pass as well, has nothing to do with damage reduction. You could adjust the barrier regen per damage done passive, nerf Fade Cloak+ damage/invul duration etc.

 

Just because we can balance the game ourselves to make the highest difficulty challenging doesn't mean the developers did everything perfectly and we shouldn't criticize or expect improvements. There's a reason why there are 4 difficulty levels, they should mean something, the game should never be trivial on nightmare.

 

I mean there's a whole list of abilities/passives that don't even work, or not the way the tooltip suggests, or just plain suck, or are clearly OP. So we should just ignore them because "you can't please everyone with balance"?

[ashwind]

I actually impose alot of self restrictions to keep the challenge. On my 4th playthrough I'm doing: no weapon crafting, tier 2 schematics or tier 3 schem tier 1 mat armor max (minimum level required for tier3 schem: 18), 8 potions cap, no hidden blades MW, no guard on hit MW, no fade cloak etc. etc. So I AM enjoying the game and I haven't quit because of the issues. I just think the developers have a responsibility to make the hardest difficulty called NIGHTMARE actually challenging. I mean taking 1 damage on your tank, which can be achieved at level 8~, is just stupid!

 

About KE, that's a separate issue and requires a balance pass as well, has nothing to do with damage reduction. You could adjust the barrier regen per damage done passive, nerf Fade Cloak+ damage/invul duration etc.

 

Just because we can balance the game ourselves to make the highest difficulty challenging doesn't mean the developers did everything perfectly and we shouldn't criticize or expect improvements. There's a reason why there are 4 difficulty levels, they should mean something, the game should never be trivial on nightmare.

 

I mean there's a whole list of abilities/passives that don't even work, or not the way the tooltip suggests, or just plain suck, or are clearly OP. So we should just ignore them because "you can't please everyone with balance"?

 

I am simply recommending self-impose challenges. Glad your own restrictions are providing you with the challenges you seek.

 

As for balancing this game, leave it to the professionals. It is never even remotely close to what you can imagine.

[GuyNice]

As for balancing this game, leave it to the professionals. It is never even remotely close to what you can imagine.

Sorry this is just a poor argument and logical fallacy (ad verecundiam to be exact). If you don't wish to discuss something or have nothing to add that's fine, but don't claim to know the limits of my comprehension.

 

The fact is, much of the combat system/encounter design lacks polish and/or feels rushed, which results in uneven difficulty (pre-skyhold is the most challenging, post-skyhold is mostly trivial if you take advantage of the tools at your disposal). Check out the "Stuff the doesn't work" thread for a comprehensive list.

[ashwind]

Sorry this is just a poor argument and logical fallacy (ad verecundiam to be exact). If you don't wish to discuss something or have nothing to add that's fine, but don't claim to know the limits of my comprehension.

 

The fact is, much of the combat system/encounter design lacks polish and/or feels rushed, which results in uneven difficulty (pre-skyhold is the most challenging, post-skyhold is mostly trivial if you take advantage of the tools at your disposal). Check out the "Stuff the doesn't work" thread for a comprehensive list.

 

Those are bugs and have nothing to do with balancing.

 

Right, post skyhold nightmare is none trivial as in I actually have to use a couple of potions. hah

[Feranel]

Turn on friendly fire with a mostly melee party. 

[GuyNice]

Turn on friendly fire with a mostly melee party. 

Friendly fire is another rushed area of the game. Enemies don't have friendly fire (unlike origins), abilities count as friendly fire seemingly at random (firewall does no friendly fire damage, chain lightning is basically useless as it targets your party members for the first time in the series).

 

Face it, this game, despite all of its great achievements, which I'll be first in line to praise it for, is poorly balanced and has a ridiculous difficulty curve. And these problems need to be fixed by the developers not community workarounds or in-house rules. 

[Feranel]

Friendly fire is another rushed area of the game. Enemies don't have friendly fire (unlike origins), abilities count as friendly fire seemingly at random (firewall does no friendly fire damage, chain lightning is basically useless as it targets your party members for the first time in the series).

 

Face it, this game, despite all of its great achievements, which I'll be first in line to praise it for, is poorly balanced and has a ridiculous difficulty curve. And they problems need to be fixed by the developers not community workarounds or in-house rules. 

 

Honestly, I don't think Friendly Fire has been balanced since Origins.  In Origins, health scaled well with player damage, so FF was a danger, but still something you could mitigate.  In DA:2, player health was capped at around 300-400, but player damage continuously scaled into the thousands, meaning friendly fire from, say, Fenris, was a one-shot at later levels.

 

After that, I didn't even bother to try FF in DA:I so I don't even know how it is.

[Exalus]

They cant balance the game due to rng schematic drops and the divergent pathing options after skyhold. They make assumptions based on what they think the player can do and knows. I.E on your first playthrough you don't know you can rush to hissing wastes at level 8, avoid all the level 16 mobs and cherry pick the amazing tier 3 rings in additional to tier 3 masterwork schematics, you can ride these out for the entire game. Even on a blind playthrough, if you found a tier weapon schematic or bought one prior to the battle haven, life would be much easier. Same for getting lucky with a t3 schematic in valamar or much later in exalted plains/emerald graves. 

 

BW seemed to believe the player would progress linearly in power but its actually a hyper exponential curve post skyhold due to specs+t3 crafting.
What they could have done was made the game linearly harder up until haven, then made every post skyhold vastly more challenging but this would explicitly be with the notion that they expect players to mini max like crazy and know where everything is which may go against the spirit of an explorative rpg. Restricting yourself to the point where all youre doing is kiting non stop on a naked solo mage is not something I consider fun or meaningfully difficult and simply cranking up the damage and health numbers of enemies only just moves the scale but its still better than the what we have now. Ideally there would be a mod that dynamically modulates it for you based on your party stats,level and item tiers so difficulty would feel organic instead of forced. 

 

Allowing everything to scale to max level wold be another nice addition. It is almost impossible to meaningfully play through every main area without getting grossly over leveled even without codex perks. 

Modifié par Exalus, 26 décembre 2014 - 07:23 .

[Molohk]

Something I like to do, but may be different depending on you class, is to use unconventional but fun strategies. For instance, while ideal I would rush into a right with my tank so that he catches all initial aggro, then switch to my aggro-free PC and start focusing fire, I sometimes rush in with my PC while I let my tank catch aggro on its own. This makes fights more chaotic and demanding.

 

On a side note, I do agree that difficulty levels are poorly designed. Difficulty levels should provide a way for games to adjust the challenge to their level of skill and their liking, and I believe the game provides too narrow a spectrum of difficulty levels (not a huge difference between normal and nightmare), and also difficulty within a specific level is too inconsistent (you may find one part too easy while others too hard). This is evidenced by the fact that full T3 eliminates any challenge even at highest difficulty.

 

Whether the issues with difficulty are likely or not to be fixed (I personally doubt it, since it implies a chance to chore mechanics and thus likely to break more things than it will fix), it still seems to me like a design flaw. If the first part of the game (tutorial) feels just as hard at normal and nightmare (that's how it felt to me), it's a sign that something is really wrong. Note that I had the same feeling on the later parts of the game, it felt almost equally easy while wearing similar T3 gear.

[zeypher]

these days i try to have no death, meaning every encounter i try so that no one goes down. 

[WJC3688]

Can someone explain the tanks taking 1 damage deal to me? I rushed Turn the Bolt + Turn the Blade on Cass and she's definitely still taking more than 1 damage on level 8..... only playing on normal, and she can still die to strong enemies such as rage demons if they are left unchecked for too long. Do you have to maintain shield wall?

 

Anyways, I agree that the difficulty in the encounters is very inconsisent. I am running around the first area (hinterlands) and there is mostly no challenge, then all of a sudden one of the fade rifts is randomly spewing multiple greater terrors that teleport on top of my party and knockdown + chunk over half their health in one attack. Wtf? I guess that's what my rogue is for, to scout ahead and avoid that crap.......

[myztikrice]

Don't craft anything

 

 

Can someone explain the tanks taking 1 damage deal to me? I rushed Turn the Bolt + Turn the Blade on Cass and she's definitely still taking more than 1 damage on level 8..... only playing on normal, and she can still die to strong enemies such as rage demons if they are left unchecked for too long. Do you have to maintain shield wall?

 

Anyways, I agree that the difficulty in the encounters is very inconsisent. I am running around the first area (hinterlands) and there is mostly no challenge, then all of a sudden one of the fade rifts is randomly spewing multiple greater terrors that teleport on top of my party and knockdown + chunk over half their health in one attack. Wtf? I guess that's what my rogue is for, to scout ahead and avoid that crap.......

Select them to see their levels, Hinterlands has some level 12 mobs