I like how people think that sten will be on thedas side despite pretty much devs said he was brainwashed back to fit qun after blight (good luck if you think they won't do same with iron bull) , he pretty much attacked alistair years after blight.
There can't be peace simple for that reason that qunari don't accept peoples outside qun so either it is convert or die.
Pretty much that alliance is 1 sided and benefit is on qunari side.
I like how people think that sten will be on thedas side despite pretty much devs said he was brainwashed back to fit qun after blight (good luck if you think they won't do same with iron bull) , he pretty much attacked alistair years after blight.
There can't be peace simple for that reason that qunari don't accept peoples outside qun so either it is convert or die.
Pretty much that alliance is 1 sided and benefit is on qunari side.
Yes, as if Sten had needed to be reeducated.
If he had, he wouldn't be the Arishok now, that's pretty obvious, since those who are reeducated aren't granted big role in the society. And the Qun is actually on the side of Thedas, much more than say, Tevinter and its deluded dreams of grandeur. The Qun is no more a hegemonic power than the Chantry, which launch Exalted Marches against those which do not adhere to its creed to force them to convert. At least, with the Qun, a new convert now that he can hope to achieve some position of relative importance; not so much with the Chantry (and especially the Imperial Chantry).
For the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can hate the Qun. Not like it, I can understand, but loath it when you have chitty societies like Tevinter or Orlaïs around...
Yes, as if Sten had needed to be reeducated.
If he had, he wouldn't be the Arishok now, that's pretty obvious, since those who are reeducated aren't granted big role in the society. And the Qun is actually on the side of Thedas, much more than say, Tevinter and its deluded dreams of grandeur. The Qun is no more a hegemonic power than the Chantry, which launch Exalted Marches against those which do not adhere to its creed to force them to convert. At least, with the Qun, a new convert now that he can hope to achieve some position of relative importance; not so much with the Chantry (and especially the Imperial Chantry).
For the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can hate the Qun. Not like it, I can understand, but loath it when you have chitty societies like Tevinter or Orlaïs around...
If he needed or not it is up to you but he was unless you want argue with devs that sten wasn't.So pretty much sten from dao didn't fit to qunari vision.
I want to note that you don't need to be member of chantry or even belive to achieve position in society simple as chantry don't have absolute power in society.Thedas societes offers much more freedom than qunari (well how much it depends on country).
Qunari have many good sides and pretty much i pointed them in qunari threads but in terms of freedom they are worst society and i prefer freedom.And that i dislike A doesn't mean i like B.
It's not like the qunari are going to send you a polite letter "Hey just so you know, we're going to invade next week" merely because you have "alliance" with them. And as long as the alliance operates on the 'we tell you what you need to know, you do what we tell you and you don't get any info on us beyond what we choose to tell you' you're hardly keeping your enemies close by maintaining these ties with them, and you aren't going to know anything about these dreadnaughts beforehand.Even if you're right, which you may or may not be, one must keep one's friends close and potential enemies closer. I'd rather keep the qunari where I can watch them, so should they invade, I'll have a better chance of knowing about it before I hear the sound of dreadnouts bombarding the nearest coastal settlement.
It's not like the qunari are going to send you a polite letter "Hey just so you know, we're going to invade next week" merely because you have "alliance" with them. And as long as the alliance operates on the 'we tell you what you need to know, you do what we tell you and you don't get any info on us beyond what we choose to tell you' you're hardly keeping your enemies close by maintaining these ties with them, and you aren't going to know anything about these dreadnaughts beforehand.
You give the qunari more credit than I do if you think that they can keep Leliana in the dark while our forces are actively working together.
You give the qunari more credit than I do if you think that they can keep Leliana in the dark while our forces are actively working together.
You mean woman that was fooled by blackwall and solas?
You mean woman that was fooled by blackwall and solas?
One person keeping a secret about their lives is easy. A nation keeping an invasion a secret from their allies is far more difficult.
For the life of me, I can't understand how anyone can hate the Qun. Not like it, I can understand, but loath it when you have chitty societies like Tevinter or Orlaïs around...
I'd assume people who loathe the Qun tend to loathe Tevinter as well. Slavery, and all that.
One person keeping a secret about their lives is easy. A nation keeping an invasion a secret from their allies is far more difficult.
A nation pretty much guarded their secrets for centuries not mention pretty much blackwall was amateur mistake players that played dao can smell blackwall BS quickly and leliana was there (or at least could be there).
I'd assume people who loathe the Qun tend to loathe Tevinter as well. Slavery, and all that.
Not necessarily qun pretty much restricts freedom of everyone when tevinter only slaves so your reasons may not be "i want freedom for everyone" but "i want freedom for myself".
A nation pretty much guarded their secrets for centuries not mention pretty much blackwall was amateur mistake pretty much players that played dao can smell blackwall BS quickly and leliana was there (or at least could be there)
Like I said to the other guy, I do believe your opinion of the qunari is even higher than my own.
Like I said to the other guy, I do believe your opinion of the qunari is even higher than my own.
Well they aren't one of most dangerous organized forces (if not most) for no reason.
Well they aren't one of most dangerous organized forces (if not most) for no reason.
An assessment I agree with.
I just know what goes into planning and prepping for an invasion. Is it impossible to hide? No. But if you know what to look for, what should be there and isn't, you can get a pretty good idea of what's coming.
And actively working with them puts me in a good position to see what needs to be seen.
I've been thinking about this a bit, because as I saw it I expected siding with the qunari to have a bigger payoff than what we saw in the game, by pay off I mean an effect on the final outcome of Dragon Age Inquisition, not Dragon Age 4. Disappointed that there is (as it currently stands) appears to be absolutely no consequences to the choice (aside from the personal consequence to Bull), because don't both sides get war table missions?
It's true, up to a point. The Chargers provide several missions if you keep asking Krem for ideas, but most of them can be done before Iron Bull's personal quest. Meanwhile, the Ben-Hassrath provide two operation chains.
The consequences, as you say, are mainly personal for Iron Bull. The Inquisition will win, with or without Qunari support, so in the end is a matter of alliances and personal feelings.
Do you care for Iron Bull? With which decision do you think he's happier? To follow the Qun, his homeland, the people whose values and ideals he shares? Or to save the band, his friends, the people he's been taking care of for years now? If it's a matter of strategy, whose help do you want? An alliance with the powerful Qunari (making history just because of that) certainly pays much better than the services of a mercenary company, doesn't it? We're talking about saving the world. Or do you think that it's only a temporal offer and it's better to trust the mercenaries who have been helping your cause and saving your men long before the Qunari were willing to do the same?
These are the decisions I like in Bioware games. Whatever you choose, you can't help but feeling that you have done something wrong.
An assessment I agree with.
I just know what goes into planning and prepping for an invasion. Is it impossible to hide? No. But if you know what to look for, what should be there and isn't, you can get a pretty good idea of what's coming.
And actively working with them puts me in a good position to see what needs to be seen.
From what i saw that alliance was "we don't tell you anything and we demand you to sacrifice your own forces for us and our own intrests that happen at this moment be the same as yours" not mention it works on both sides and well you are one who give them more when they are shy.
Qunari aren't dumb and they don't accept outsiders so pretty much i doubt they would accept it if they didn't profited from this more than you.
I always save the Chargers. They are Bull's family now, not just fellow mercs. I am always happy to free Bull's mind from the Qun and show him that living as Tal Vashoth is not what he thinks it to be.
From what i saw that alliance was "we don't tell you anything and we demand you to sacrifice your own forces for us and our own intrests that happen at this moment be the same as yours" not mention it works on both sides and well you are one who give them more when they are shy.
Qunari aren't dumb and they don't accept outsiders so pretty much i doubt they would accept it if they didn't profited from this more than you.
And yet, once you get done with that initial mission, your spies work side by side with the ben-hassrath to bring down the venatori. So what you saw isn't the full picture.
I don't blame anyone for passing up the alliance to start with. If you want to be suspicious and/or paranoid, fine, that's your right. As it stands, though, I'm perfectly satisfied with the results of actually going through with the alliance. I think it payed off many times over.
And yet, once you get done with that initial mission, your spies work side by side with the ben-hassrath to bring down the venatori. So what you saw isn't the full picture.
I don't blame anyone for passing up the alliance to start with. If you want to be suspicious and/or paranoid, fine, that's your right. As it stands, though, I'm perfectly satisfied with the results of actually going through with the alliance. I think it payed off many times over.
And yet i doubt you have any informations about qunari after that?
And yet i doubt you have any informations about qunari after that?
At the bare minimum, my agents known their agents. My agents know their methods, their techniques, their mentality. I have an idea of the scope of their network throughout Thedas, the very thing Tallis worked so hard to keep secret in MotA.
That's not nothing.
And that's assuming none of my agents took the opportunity to learn even more than that.
More than that, though, my agents working along side theirs goes towards fostering mutual respect and understanding on both sides. My people see the qunari for what they are; people. Not mindless hive drones. Not an unthinking force of nature. But people. And the qunari agents see that my people aren't so different from them. Maybe some friendships get started. Maybe you have people on both sides who aren't so eager to murder each other.
That's my inner idealist talking, there, though.
At the bare minimum, my agents known their agents. My agents know their methods, their techniques, their mentality. I have an idea of the scope of their network throughout Thedas, the very thing Tallis worked so hard to keep secret in MotA.
That's not nothing.
And that's assuming none of my agents took the opportunity to learn even more than that.
More than that, though, my agents working along side theirs goes towards fostering mutual respect and understanding on both sides. My people see the qunari for what they are; people. Not mindless hive drones. Not an unthinking force of nature. But people. And the qunari agents see that my people aren't so different from them. Maybe some friendships get started. Maybe you have people on both sides who aren't so eager to murder each other.
That's my inner idealist talking, there, though.
Hardly doubt that you will knew more than few names and more than iron bull will explain to you that is best scenario and wouldn't be suprised if that side by side mean they contacted anonymously and providing you with informations.
Not mention you ingore as i said qunari are fanatics they don't accept peoples outside qun lets for example one of them befriend with one of your peoples in such case qunari quickly will brainwash them as they did with sten after blight so good luck with that.
Hardly doubt that you will knew more than few names and more than iron bull will explain to you that is best scenario and wouldn't be suprised if that side by side mean they contacted anonymously and providing you with informations.
Not mention you ingore as i said qunari are fanatics they don't accept peoples outside qun lets for example one of them befriend with one of your peoples in such case qunari quickly will brainwash them as they did with sten after blight so good luck with that.
I don't ignore it, I contest it.
I've seen one fanatical qunari. I've seen dozens of fanatical humans and elves who oppose them.
I haven't seen a single fanatical qunari supporter on these forums. I've seen more fanatical qunari haters than I can count.
So, if you want to use fanaticism as an argument for why I should oppose the qunari, that is an argument you will lose.
I don't ignore it, I contest it.
I've seen one fanatical qunari. I've seen dozens of fanatical humans and elves who oppose them.
I haven't seen a single fanatical qunari supporter on these forums. I've seen more fanatical qunari haters than I can count.
So, if you want to use fanaticism as an argument for why I should oppose the qunari, that is an argument you will lose.
1. Fanatical qunari you mean 1 non-fanatical one? Their culture is pretty much about mindlessly following qun and crushing everyone who isn't part of their culture.Well it is hard to not oppose someone who wants to destroy you.Fanatics and religion is 1 but religion that require you to be fanatic is another...
1. Fanatical qunari you mean 1 non-fanatical one? Their culture is pretty much about mindlessly following qun and crushing everyone who isn't part of their culture.Well it is hard to not oppose someone who wants to destroy you.Fanatics and religion is 1 but religion that require you to be fanatic is another...
The people I see calling for the destruction of an entire culture are the ones who want to destroy the qun. The same people I see advocating genocide. The people I see who want to control and dictate what people believe are the ones who say that anyone who believes in the ideals the qun is either brainwashed or stupid and must be destroyed; "I support free will and choice so long as people agree with me."
Are the qunari perfect? No. They are a horribly flawed culture. Orlais is a horribly flawed culture. Tevinter is a horribly flawed culture. Orzammar is a horribly flawed culture.
I like Thedas being horribly flawed. I would like Thedas to continue on with all of it's horrible flaws, the qunari included.
The people I see calling for the destruction of an entire culture are the ones who want to destroy the qun. The same people I see advocating genocide. The people I see who want to control and dictate what people believe are the ones who say that anyone who believes in the ideals the qun is either brainwashed or stupid and must be destroyed; "I support free will and choice so long as people agree with me."
Are the qunari perfect? No. They are a horribly flawed culture. Orlais is a horribly flawed culture. Tevinter is a horribly flawed culture. Orzammar is a horribly flawed culture.
I like Thedas being horribly flawed. I would like Thedas to continue on with all of it's horrible flaws, the qunari included.
It is like saying that peoples who want destroy darkspawn are fanatics not rly qunari as well darkspawn want destroy every society in Thedas and are threat to them pretty much qunari are aggressors and want control peoples so no wonder that peoples want destroy them and hate them.
For inquisition and inq they are enemies same for rest of thedas and anyone who is outside qun save for inq not inquisition that is ready to convert otherwise qunari are enemies because for them you are outside qun and at best that means enemy they respect.
It is like saying that peoples who want destroy darkspawn are fanatics not rly qunari as well darkspawn want destroy every society in Thedas and are threat to them pretty much qunari are aggressors and want control peoples so no wonder that peoples want destroy them and hate them.
Well... Grey Wardens can be pretty fanatic about killing darkspawn, and one of the main quests in Inquisition is precisely about how their fanatism makes them stupid and pawns of the Big Bad. So even with your example there's a case to be made.
I think if this had been a different game I'd be less inclined to be annoyed about the scope of the consequences of the decision. Whilst I can understand the depth of the personal consequences for Bull, and it does matter to me, I just felt in the grander scheme of things, the outcome, no matter the choice, felt rather hollow. I guess if it's expanded upon in later games (or books) I might in retrospect feel differently, but at this very moment I feel that the choice/consequence on a world/overall story scale was just a bit meh.These are the decisions I like in Bioware games. Whatever you choose, you can't help but feeling that you have done something wrong.
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