447 réponses à ce sujet

[alwaysquestions]

That's the question, isn't it? First the quality is subject to preference. And also, just because it matters to you NOT to have content, it might matter to others to DO have content. General quality one,  because they don't suck (well, some do, like bottles, but I think I expressed my gripe with them enough, however there are people who just love collectibles and achievements like that). This game tried to appease various people and maybe (just presumption) they thought, if you get what you like, you won't mind if things other people like, but you don't, are in the game at an optional level.

When we say: skip the part you dislike, we don't say: don't dislike it, we say: focus on the good things which appeal to -you- and don't let the ones that are aimed at others take from your fun. And maybe they enjoy their part and don't focus on the things that they dislike and are fun for you.
Of course if you dislike the game as a whole, then that's a different cake.

 

That's a question I can't answer, but it would be interesting if they polled people to see how many people enjoyed collectibles quests

[Realmzmaster]

Well, it's actually about the quests too not just the way it's handled. The example you gave. Ruck. You find this upset woman praying and you ask her what's going on. She tells you about her son and if you want, you can offer your help. Even if you don't feel sorry about the woman, you're going into the Deep Roads either way, so why not? Then eventually you find him while you're on your way to do the main quest and find out he's alive but lost his mind because of the darkspawn taint. You can talk to him and you can either intimidate, persuade or kill him. Then you can lie or tell the truth to his mother. Tell me one DAI sidequest that is as big and developed enough to give you the amount of dialogue and choices the Ruck quest has. (here's a link just in case you don't remember that quest very well)

 

I'm not sure what you mean by quest design. I mean, if they create a quest where the only purpose is to retrieve a ring, tell someone person X is dead, hunt 10 rams, claim spots for watchtowers, etc. etc. of course there's no depth to them to actually give you a proper story, dialogue and choices. So in the end, DAO has indeed better sidequests just because they are more complex.

 

The quest to give 10 ram meats is on the level with the Ruck quest IMHO. The Inquisitor meets the hunter who says the refugees are hungry but he is unable to hunt because of fighting between mage/ templars and the demons.The Inquisitor who is out in the Hinterlands anyway can hunt for those 10 ram meats while the Inquisitor is doing parts of the main quest.

 

The Inquisitor brings back the ram meat to the hunter who then gives his thanks and states that he had his doubts about the Inquisition, but now he has seen first hand that the Inquisition is there to help and in fact are the only ones helping the under trodden. The quest plays into the theme of the game which is to gain power and influence. The Inquisitor by doing this simple act has gained influence among the refugees.  The gamer can even hear in passing conversation about the help that the Inquisition is providing. I got far more satisfaction out of the ram meat quest than the Ruck quest.

[Adeph]

I think the way side quests are done is brilliant, I feel a real sense that my character and the inquisition has accomplished something by the time I finish a zone. The way you see your actions represented in the game world is very satisfying.

People talk about the blanket quest but today I was in the Hinterlands and I came across a family camped out. The father was saying he had gotten blankets while his wife asked what did he have to trade for them, nothing he said the Inquisition had just given them. No way is that a throw away quest for me.

I was exploring when I came across an Inquisition out post I was sure wasn't there before then I realised it was one of the watchtowers I had built. Same with the wolf quest, now I sorted that out you can see the farmers have returned. For me things like that are worth more than any cut scene, your actions are changing the world, just look at the difference those side quests make in the Hinterlands.

[In Exile]

As another example, I'm not emotionally attached to or invested in any NPC that I only spend 5 total minutes talking to. Even in Origins I didn't get attached to somebody like Ruck or any other side quest NPCs.

My attachment is to the characters that stick with you, which are mainly companions and a few others.

But how would you get attached Dagna? She's very much like a Ruck. To be honest, Anora isn't much removed from that. I think she features less than Krem if we count conversation and screentime.

[alwaysquestions]

The quest to give 10 ram meats is on the level with the Ruck quest IMHO. The Inquisitor meets the hunter who says the refugees are hungry but he is unable to hunt because of fighting between mage/ templars and the demons.The Inquisitor who is out in the Hinterlands anyway can hunt for those 10 ram meats while the Inquisitor is doing parts of the main quest.

 

The Inquisitor brings back the ram meat to the hunter who then gives his thanks and states that he had his doubts about the Inquisition, but now he has seen first hand that the Inquisition is there to help and in fact are the only ones helping the under trodden. The quest plays into the theme of the game which is to gain power and influence. The Inquisitor by doing this simple act has gained influence among the refugees.  The gamer can even hear in passing conversation about the help that the Inquisition is providing. I got far more satisfaction out of the ram meat quest than the Ruck quest.

 

I had exactly the opposite emotional reactions, but that's preference even though I'm really struggling to see how you prefer the Ram quest

 

The point remains though that A Mother's Hope has 2 different decisions points with a couple of significantly different decisions each, which are both emotional involvement points and ways to shape your character. With Rams it's take it or don't take.

[Realmzmaster]

You know all that Inquisition "power and influence" means jack **** because the areas are pretty much one and the same regardless of whether or not you get 10 ram meat? If the "power and influence" resulting from the quests is your only point of reasoning for thinking the quest is the same- if even superior-, then it's not a very good one.

 

You gain no "influence" among the refugees. The state of existence of the area before you did the quest and after you completed it is exactly the same. We are told that we are spreading "power and influence" by helping these people, but we're never actually shown the results of our spoils. Thus, that "power and influence" doesn't mean jack if it's only spoken of, and is even worse if there is no visible indication of such power and influence, especially if you're told you did have an impact, when visually you did not.

 

This is actually the most inane post I've ever read. Try making a game full of as bare-bone as possible quests that go Kill 10 X/Collect 10 X under the pretense that you are spreading your "influence" and see how many raving reviews you'll get.

 

I was responding to the post that said the Ruck quest in DAO was a good quest when in essence it is no better or worse than the ram meat quest in DAI. The helping of the refugees plays into the overall theme of the game. Where does the find Ruck quest play into the theme of DAO? Both quests can be done while the protagonist is doing the main quest. The poster I was responding to stated that the Ruck quest was better? How so? I was pointing out that essentially the quest is the same.

 

The only point of Ruck in the Deep Roads is to be a merchant unless you kill him. So tell me how is the Ruck quest any better than the collect 10 Ram meat quest when they both have basically the same structure?

 

Also you will notice that after you do the Ruck quest that the mother never leaves the spot in front of the ancestor. So she does not actually go to Ruck, because you never see her in the Deep Roads. So tell me where was the change there?  

[In Exile]

Probably not. My impression is that the open-world aspect is going over pretty well. I'd probably be better off if it hadn't, since I've never been a huge fan of exploration in RPGs. My impression is that going to a lot fewer maps wouldn't satisfy the people who really like the exploration aspect.

I hate exploration heavy RPGs. Yet somehow I really liked DAI. I'm not sure what it is about it. I think it's because I really like the combat.

[In Exile]

YOU asked for personal opinions on what people liked or didn't like about NPCs. Of course someone is going to like one character over another. It's...very draining debating with you. I honestly feel like there is no point to this argument. I stand by my original point. I'm not changing ;my mind. So, this is all rather aimless.

I'm not trying to debate. I'm honestly asking. I apologise if you feel as if I'm attacking you. I'm genuinely curious what drives people's preferences when the content is similar or similarly executed.

What did Bioware do right with Dagna for you but failed with Ruck or Harding? I think that's a conversation worth exploring.

I sincerely apologise if my manner gave offence. It wasn't my intention to conduct an inquisition.

[In Exile]

I think the way side quests are done is brilliant, I feel a real sense that my character and the inquisition has accomplished something by the time I finish a zone. The way you see your actions represented in the game world is very satisfying.

People talk about the blanket quest but today I was in the Hinterlands and I came across a family camped out. The father was saying he had gotten blankets while his wife asked what did he have to trade for them, nothing he said the Inquisition had just given them. No way is that a throw away quest for me.

I was exploring when I came across an Inquisition out post I was sure wasn't there before then I realised it was one of the watchtowers I had built. Same with the wolf quest, now I sorted that out you can see the farmers have returned. For me things like that are worth more than any cut scene, your actions are changing the world, just look at the difference those side quests make in the Hinterlands.

In the Emerald Graves you can come across a family of refugees camping out. They're talking about Redcliffe, and now the Inquisition brought peace. One or two want to go back. A third says that she wants to go somewhere else - to take advantage of the chance the Inquisition gave her. I found that quite powerful.

[In Exile]

You know all that Inquisition "power and influence" means jack **** because the areas are pretty much one and the same regardless of whether or not you get 10 ram meat? If the "power and influence" resulting from the quests is your only point of reasoning for thinking the quest is the same- if even superior-, then it's not a very good one.

You gain no "influence" among the refugees. The state of existence of the area before you did the quest and after you completed it is exactly the same. We are told that we are spreading "power and influence" by helping these people, but we're never actually shown the results of our spoils. Thus, that "power and influence" doesn't mean jack if it's only spoken of, and is even worse if there is no visible indication of such power and influence, especially if you're told you did have an impact, when visually you did not. There is no representation of the "power and influence" we are gaining from 10 ram meat. Saying it's better because it fits into the game's "theme" and because you're gaining such "influence" is faulty, because in reality you aren't any more or less powerful irregardless of whether or not you did collect 10 ram meat - you're just told you are. It's very weak reasoning to argue that this ineptness makes that type of quest have any quality at all.

This is actually the most inane post I've ever read. I've never before seen anyone that performs the mental gymnastics required to argue that the most simplistic and lazy form of fetchquests in DA:I are better than the more detailed quests in DA:O. Try making a game full of as bare-bone as possible quests that go Kill 10 X/Collect 10 X under the pretense that you are spreading your "influence" and see how many raving reviews you'll get.

In DAO major choices like Bhelen vs. Harrowmont are entirely cosmetic. There is absolutely NO difference in any in-game content. The only quest that has any echo at all in Orzammar is choosing to save or destroy the anvil because of the golems.

Is the entire Paragon of Her Kind quest line worthless because it doesn't change the game at all? That's absolutely ridiculous.

To criticise DAI for the lack of reactivity in comparison to DAO is ridiculous.

[Realmzmaster]

I had exactly the opposite emotional reactions, but that's preference even though I'm really struggling to see how you prefer the Ram quest

 

The point remains though that A Mother's Hope has 2 different decisions points with a couple of significantly different decisions each, which are both emotional involvement points and ways to shape your character. With Rams it's take it or don't take.

 

The Mother's Hope quest also depends on which companion is in the party because if you lie some will rat on you. I liked the ram meat quest because it changes a person mind about the Inquisition. As far as the mother's Hope quest you can take it or leave it also.  The quest is not part of the main quest.

 

A lot of posters also talk about the poet tree, but that is not a side quest. It is on the critical path of the main quest because the party cannot get to Witherfang without passing the barrier. The party cannot pass the barrier without getting the acorn for the tree or killing the tree.

 

The other problem with DAO is that it put puzzles and riddles on the main questline (with no alternate way to get around them), which DAI does not do. The puzzles in DAI are optional.

 

I like all three of the DA games. I know the flaws and strengths of all three. I like many of the quests in DAI and feel they have a purpose whether other posters think that is inane I really do not care.

 

I roleplay my characters as I see fit.  I am having fun and that is all that matters. I like DAI and have no problem discussing the game. I also would not call what people think or their opinions inane as some posters have, but  to everyone else YMMV.

[MyKingdomCold]

I don't know. Giving the meat to the hunter along with other quests allowed me to recruit Corporal Vale and his irregulars

[alwaysquestions]

The Mother's Hope quest also depends on which companion is in the party because if you lie some will rat on you. I liked the ram meat quest because it changes a person mind about the Inquisition. As far as the mother's Hope quest you can take it or leave it also.  The quest is not part of the main quest.

 

No sorry, that's not the same. One quest has a two level deep decision tree of choices and the other has none. Whether you care about those choices or find them meaningful is a different issue and a matter of preference. But lots of people in this thread like the availability of such choices in their side quests.

 

This thread is about whether people feel there's something missing in DAI quests compared to DAO quests, and that's one of the things I wish there was more of in DAI quests.

[pinkjellybeans]

The quest to give 10 ram meats is on the level with the Ruck quest IMHO. The Inquisitor meets the hunter who says the refugees are hungry but he is unable to hunt because of fighting between mage/ templars and the demons.The Inquisitor who is out in the Hinterlands anyway can hunt for those 10 ram meats while the Inquisitor is doing parts of the main quest.

 

The Inquisitor brings back the ram meat to the hunter who then gives his thanks and states that he had his doubts about the Inquisition, but now he has seen first hand that the Inquisition is there to help and in fact are the only ones helping the under trodden. The quest plays into the theme of the game which is to gain power and influence. The Inquisitor by doing this simple act has gained influence among the refugees.  The gamer can even hear in passing conversation about the help that the Inquisition is providing. I got far more satisfaction out of the ram meat quest than the Ruck quest.

 

 

Honestly, trying to make people understand something on these forums is an impossible task. Do you really think a quest where you literally only have to kill 10 friking rams is better than a quest where you can actually make different choices and have 10 minutes worth of interactions with the NPCs? Okay then...

[Elhanan]

Honestly, trying to make people understand something on these forums is an impossible task. Do you really think a quest where you literally only have to kill 10 friking rams is better than a quest where you can actually make different choices and have 10 minutes worth of interactions with the NPCs? Okay then...

Only speaking for myself, but as far as the effect in game, it is on par with it. While having another merchant that sells unlimited Deep Mushrooms is cool, gaining positive feedback from the refugees and certain members of the Inquisition is also great. Having to kill seven Red Lyrium Lt's was less rewarding than helping those that were starving due to the war. IMO, of course.

[Nefla]

I should clarify that I'm talking about the characters on the maps.

The part of the game I LOVE is the story missions and and the guys hanging around Skyhold.  I've said this in another thread, it feel like there were two different developers of this game.  The people in charge of the maps and all of that content and the developers in charge of Skyhold and story missions, the parts of the game that I actually really like, that actually feel like they were developed by the Bioware team I know and love. Problem is, most of this game revolves around the maps.  It's where we spend 70 % of the game.

That's a good point, and I wonder if they did pass off all the non-central quests to a different team or maybe even outsource it? The main story and companions are good as always but there's such a massive divide between (for example) making Cole more human-like or more spirit-like and running around a statue 3 times so you can fight an undead.

[Realmzmaster]

 

Honestly, trying to make people understand something on these forums is an impossible task. Do you really think a quest where you literally only have to kill 10 friking rams is better than a quest where you can actually make different choices and have 10 minutes worth of interactions with the NPCs? Okay then...

 

Yes trying to make people understand that their opinion is not my opinion is an impossible task. Yes the quests are on par for me, because the net effect is the same. You either let ruck live and be a merchant or kill him. You then go back to his mother and either tell the truth or lie. The effect is that the mother is still at the same spot whenever the party comes back. 

 

I would rather have a quest where I help people and gain some influence with the refugees. Also you can run across a group of refugees and over hear a conversation about how the Inquisitor helped them when they were hungry. Some actually want to go back, but one refugee states that the Inquisition gave them a second chance to do something better. That person was going to make good on that second chance.  That group was part of the refugees feed from those 10 ram meats. That to me was more fulfilling but YMMV.

[pinkjellybeans]

I would rather have a quest where I help people and gain some influence with the refugees. Also you can run across a group of refugees and over hear a conversation about how the Inquisitor helped them when they were hungry. Some actually want to go back, but one refugee states that the Inquisition gave them a second chance to do something better. That person was going to make good on that second chance.  That group was part of the refugees feed from those 10 ram meats. That to me was more fulfilling but YMMV.

 

You keep saying that, but honestly you gain nothing. Like submerged24 already said, if you don't do the ram quest, people will still love you and worship you. Nothing changes. Those groups of refugees are seen all across the map regardless if you do the ram quest or not. Just because some of them happen to mention that you gave them food while you're passing by it makes that quest better? I'm trying to understand your logic, but I just can't. Besides, I'm talking about the complexity of the quests, not the impact they may or not have in the world.

[Goldark]

I can only speak for myself, but I would have loved to see more characters to interact with throughout the various zones.

 

I actually really like the look of the zones and think the artists did a great job in that regard.  But the lack of any converstations to be had with both allies and enemies leaves me feeling disappointed.  I mean, I am still somewhat enjoying the experience, but it could have been so much more.

 

For example, I just finished up The Western Approach earlier today.  Throughout the zone, you keep finding notes left by this Servis guy, but you never actually get to talk to him.  I think you actually fight him towards the end of the zone, but I didn't even realize it was him.  I just thought it was another group of random Venatori.  After I defeated that group, I looted all the bodies and left the area to change my party because I needed Blackwall for a quest.  When I got back to the area, I finally noticed Servis laying on the ground.  That is how meaningless he was to me...I beat him and didn't even know about it, lol.

 

Why not give us some interesting conversations with him throughout the zone as we chase him down?  Have us talk with him, but let him send his minions at us as he escapes or set off a trap to distract us, etc.  Anything to help add a face to the mindless fools we keep cutting down ad nauseum.  Same with Sister Costeu in Emerald Graves or The Hand of Korth in Fallow Mire.  There are other named guys that I faced throughout the zones, but they were so forgettable I can't even racall their names.

 

So yeah, I am hoping that they can build upon this game by keeping the great looking zones, but add some great npc interaction and dialogue to the mix.  I don't see why having larger zones automatically makes it impossible to have decent quest dialogue as well.  Then again, I don't develop games for a living, so I could be missing something.  Oh well, here's hoping...

[Maverick827]

 

Honestly, trying to make people understand something on these forums is an impossible task. Do you really think a quest where you literally only have to kill 10 friking rams is better than a quest where you can actually make different choices and have 10 minutes worth of interactions with the NPCs? Okay then...

 

It really is just a willful ignorance at this point.

[outlaw1109]

You keep saying that, but honestly you gain nothing. Like submerged24 already said, if you don't do the ram quest people will still love you and worship you. Nothing changes. Those groups of refugees are seen all across the map regardless if you do the ram quest or not. Just because some of them mention that you gave them food it makes that quest better? I'm trying to understand your logic, but I just can't. Besides, I'm talking about the complexity of the quests, not the impact they may or not have in the world.

While you're talking about the complexity of the quests, he's talking about the impact they have on the world.  Ram's meat quest is a poor example (because the impact is low) but I agree that I'd rather have quests/decisions that impact the world around me VS. long dialogue that has no effect other than what I assume happens after I leave.

The impact is small, but it's there.  Whereas in Origins specifically:  if I get the Lothering Healer a bunch of poultices, nothing changes.  In DAI, I get the healer things, ask her to help and she MOVES to the Cross Roads.  No big cutscene.  No conversation that does nothing for my game.  Short conversations that are easily missed, but impact what I see in the game.

People aren't just calling me "Herald", they're talking about things I've done.  Sometimes, instead of saying the "herald" did it, they'll say the Inquisition did it, but regardless, my influence can be seen and heard and felt.

If I choose NOT to do those things, then people don't talk about them.  They call you the Herald because of what's on your hand, not because you do nice things, so OF COURSE they'll still call you the Herald/worship you.  Not doing those things doesn't change what happened.

Ever played a game where you did something nice for someone only later to hear them bad-mouthing the order to which you belong?  As if your help didn't matter?  I have...

[dragonflight288]

She was incredible. I'm kind of looking forward to my Josie romance play through to see if the chat changes up and I can really poke fun at Josie a bit.

 

The dialogue does change! And it is hilarious. 

[In Exile]

The dialogue does change! And it is hilarious.

I'm so looking forward to it!

[In Exile]

That's a good point, and I wonder if they did pass off all the non-central quests to a different team or maybe even outsource it? The main story and companions are good as always but there's such a massive divide between (for example) making Cole more human-like or more spirit-like and running around a statue 3 times so you can fight an undead.

I think it's more a result of the main criticism of Bioware games compared e.g. to Bestheda back in the day: the cutscenes and dialogue are all mandatory. Even if you skip them, they're there. All this talking.

[dlux]

 
Honestly, trying to make people understand something on these forums is an impossible task. Do you really think a quest where you literally only have to kill 10 friking rams is better than a quest where you can actually make different choices and have 10 minutes worth of interactions with the NPCs? Okay then...

It really is just a willful ignorance at this point.

Either that, or they just simply can't grasp the concept of what filler content or fetch quests are.