447 réponses à ce sujet

[DameMagpie]

Probably they wanted to get the game released and not take a few more years to bring the fictions up to a  New York Times bestseller list standard.

 

I am glad I love it, must suck for some reason I don't get

[DameMagpie]

BTW Bioware, if you want to open world your Sword Coast I promise i wont pee on the fetch quests

[Realmzmaster]

Either that, or they just simply can't grasp the concept of what filler content or fetch quests are.

 

I have no problem grasping the concept. I simply do not agree with what is being said by some posters. So on that note we will have to agree to disagree. I have told Bioware what I think of DAI and the quests. I like DAI. I like the direction that is being taken. I make no apology for it. I have been telling Bioware what I think since BG1. 

 

Others not liking it does not affect me. I have my opinion and will continue to voice it. I believe that Bioware did a good job on DAI. For everyone else YMMV. 

[AlanC9]

Either that, or they just simply can't grasp the concept of what filler content or fetch quests are.

 

 

Or they get the concept but can't figure out how filler content in the other games doesn't count as filler content because reasons.

[BammBamm]

i think the main problem is that they changed the focus from presentation of quests to impact of quests. this makes totally sense because they changed the focus from a story driven game to a more exploration one too. for people that like to explore there is no need to slam things into their face, they are more satisfied when they discover things (in this case the influence on the world of things they have done). its very impressiv how much feedback you get when you run around with open eyes and ears. people talk about things youve done or change their behaviour, things in the landscapes change or are added, things on the maps influence things in the hq and vice versa, thats pretty impressive. but not for people that doesnt recognize or arent interested in such little tweaks. and additional there is a pretty good epic story, but while in da:o the game was a big main story, in da:i its just a part of the game.

 

its not a matter of good or bad, its just different. to be honest i've never seen so much impact from the players actions in a open world game, so the quests are great in terms of what they are want them to be. sadly some players doesnt like what bioware want them to be. but as said before, it makes totally sense when you look at what kind of game they wanted to make. maybe some people dont like it, but the execution of THEIR vision of da:i to be an open world game is great. and to be honest, i think they nailed it for a lot of customers, the game is a great success even with the many technical problems it has, thats a sign they made things right at least for their target audience, and that is not the story focused kind of player but the explorer.

 

there are a lot of things i wish would be different myself (for example m&kb ui, more tactical combat focus etc), but thats the case in every single game because i dont make it myself and just play a vision of other people. so maybe some people should go away from their ideal conception a game have to be, because when you take a game for what it is and not what you wish it to be, they can be really fun and enjoyable. but its senseless to say this to people that mark a game as unplayable because you cant click to move or scroll with a mouse cursor

[Fandango]

Interesting discussion. So yeah, it appears that not all 'fetch' quests are created equal and some people really don't appreciate (or even notice) the ambient storytelling of Inquisition. Me, I sit somewhere in the middle. For all the fine work of Inquisition, Origins did a much better job of engaging me as a player and I found the overall presentation of its quests to be way more fun, interesting, challenging and memorable than anything managed by this latest game.

But, as others have already stated, this is all a matter of personal preference and a measure of why we come to BioWare.

[outlaw1109]

Either that, or they just simply can't grasp the concept of what filler content or fetch quests are.

So, if a lot of people don't notice the filler content or fetch quests, as you put it, wouldn't you say that's a game well made?

Or, is everyone that doesn't have the problems that you do somehow of lesser intellect?

Could it be that they simply have a different opinion?  Or is this another case of "every one who doesn't share my opinion must be stupid".

Just curious.

[Gilia]

So the "talk to a board, sack, chest and bring 10 lyrium potions etc" quests of origins are better then the sidequests of inquisition ? Not in my books.

[Lianaar]

 

Honestly, trying to make people understand something on these forums is an impossible task. Do you really think a quest where you literally only have to kill 10 friking rams is better than a quest where you can actually make different choices and have 10 minutes worth of interactions with the NPCs? Okay then...

 

It really is just a willful ignorance at this point.

 

  dlux, on 29 Dec 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

    Either that, or they just simply can't grasp the concept of what filler content or fetch quests are.

 

Or all three of you are being just reasonlessly insultive because someone prefers something else then you.

I try to understand why making comments like this is satisfying for people, but I personally fail in it.
Obviously you guys favor something else then others or at times me. That doesn't erally give you the right or moral high horse to call me or others challenged in understanding. Because it works both ways. Why can -you- not see what we are trying to explain? We have also voiced it many times in this conversation. And yet, you fail to see or understand

OOOOR, we can return tot he topic at conversation and skip this insults toward each other. When the other party doesn't understand what you are saying, then try a) asking questions to understand their point of view (provided you actually want to) or b ) try to express your opinion from a different point of view, so they understand.

 

(The rest is undependent from the above three posts)

All DA games are fun for different reasons. There are things I enjoy in DA:O more then DA:I, but it is not the quests, for DA:I offers so much more and the number of good quests and the play value of them is just so much more then that of DA:O.  Still origins was fun, the introduction part and setting the motivation in it was brilliant, better then DA:I-s 5 lines under the character picture telling you who you are and why you are where you are.

 

Many things could have been done in DA:O to make it more alive and interesting and I am sure many things could have been done to DA:I to make it more engaging. Just consider resource limitations which are present in the industry, no matter what you think or say. Making DA:O so long is not necessarily due to the coding of the game or desigining of the quests, but actually making the franchise. Here, there was a new engine what had to be introduced properly and that took time.

 

I don't think it is the designing groups that is so much different, but the target group of the quests and areas, aka their styles and goals. Obviously there are people enjoying how the actual change of the environment reflects your presence and actions, they get their quests. And there are people who prefer more cut scenes and they get their quests too. In each area, the quest outnumber DA:O quests, so people a ) sort and b ) sort both get more of their preferred stíle then in DA:O, for DA:O is considerably smaller. This should be taken into account too.  By no way am I suggesting you should like something that is not your style and that you are in any way less if you prefer something else. But instead of chiding people who like osmething else, you explicitly list what you enjoy in a quest and what you are willing to give up for it, you make a progressive step.

[Lianaar]

Ok, I'll start it, since I made the call:
give up: maps -- I am totally fine with less maps, while my favourite is Hissing wastes, it can be a DLC, doesn't need to come with main game. Though since they promised open world, I see why they used it here

gain: more interaction in Exhalted plains (eg someone refusing to believe the war is over, after all it can be a trick and you needing to actually bring people to peace)

give up: dragons (I don't need to have them all over the place. 2-3 is enough, 10 is superfluous, though again, once they are developed, it is not that resource heavy to place them)

gain: more cut scenes for side quests

 

irrelevant for me : achievement type of quests

[Scerene]

Probably they wanted to get the game released and not take a few more years to bring the fictions up to a  New York Times bestseller list standard.

 

I am glad I love it, must suck for some reason I don't get

or they could have made  4-5 big maps with very solid content, instead of 10 huge empty ones filled with 100's of fetch quests, which wouldnt have taken them "a few more years". Its a matter of priorities. Hell even fewer than than 4-5 would be fine as long as the story-content was well-made.

[Maverick827]

Or all three of you are being just reasonlessly insultive because someone prefers something else then you.
I try to understand why making comments like this is satisfying for people, but I personally fail in it.
Obviously you guys favor something else then others or at times me. That doesn't erally give you the right or moral high horse to call me or others challenged in understanding. Because it works both ways. Why can -you- not see what we are trying to explain? We have also voiced it many times in this conversation. And yet, you fail to see or understand
OOOOR, we can return tot he topic at conversation and skip this insults toward each other. When the other party doesn't understand what you are saying, then try a) asking questions to understand their point of view (provided you actually want to) or b ) try to express your opinion from a different point of view, so they understand.
 
(The rest is undependent from the above three posts)
All DA games are fun for different reasons. There are things I enjoy in DA:O more then DA:I, but it is not the quests, for DA:I offers so much more and the number of good quests and the play value of them is just so much more then that of DA:O.  Still origins was fun, the introduction part and setting the motivation in it was brilliant, better then DA:I-s 5 lines under the character picture telling you who you are and why you are where you are.
 
Many things could have been done in DA:O to make it more alive and interesting and I am sure many things could have been done to DA:I to make it more engaging. Just consider resource limitations which are present in the industry, no matter what you think or say. Making DA:O so long is not necessarily due to the coding of the game or desigining of the quests, but actually making the franchise. Here, there was a new engine what had to be introduced properly and that took time.
 
I don't think it is the designing groups that is so much different, but the target group of the quests and areas, aka their styles and goals. Obviously there are people enjoying how the actual change of the environment reflects your presence and actions, they get their quests. And there are people who prefer more cut scenes and they get their quests too. In each area, the quest outnumber DA:O quests, so people a ) sort and b ) sort both get more of their preferred stíle then in DA:O, for DA:O is considerably smaller. This should be taken into account too.  By no way am I suggesting you should like something that is not your style and that you are in any way less if you prefer something else. But instead of chiding people who like osmething else, you explicitly list what you enjoy in a quest and what you are willing to give up for it, you make a progressive step.

I make no claims of moral or intellectual superiority. "Willful ignorance" is not an insult. Please don't put words in my mouth.

[Scerene]

Whatever else you think about Bioware games post BG2, focused on the main story cannot be one of them. The MQ (crit. path) was always short. You can see that via speed runs.

What DAO did that DAI does not is integrate the MQ and side quests way better. Saving Lothering is technically a not a critical path quest. But it's a good one and includes a lot of what we'd consider side quests (Bella's brother, finding the Smith's daughter, etc)

you can run through a main story as quick or slow as you want, it doesnt mean the main story isnt the focus, I actually left red-cliffe to fend for itself(as part of my later playthroughs where, as an elf, i couldnt be bothered catering to human hypocrisy) and did none of those quests and the main story *still* was longer than DAI, and you basically repeated what i said, that its better to incorporate side-quests as a tie-in to the main quest. Speaking of BG2 im pretty sure ive seen people completing the main quest in like 20 mins or something, so even where the focus is on the main quest( and far better side-quests), a game can be speed-run.

[outlaw1109]

or they could have made  4-5 big maps with very solid content, instead of 10 huge empty ones filled with 100's of fetch quests, which wouldnt have taken them "a few more years". Its a matter of priorities. Hell even fewer than than 4-5 would be fine as long as the story-content was well-made.

See, this was what I had actually thought had happened when I first played the game.  I never pushed the story arch very far because I had no idea how many of those maps there were.

I do want to point out, for those of you who weren't here:  When DAO was released, one of the #1 complaints in the old BSN was all those precious cut-scenes for each convo. the warden had.  I'm talking about how they were "inescapable".  People clamored and complained.  So they changed that in DA2.  People complained again.  (mainly because it wasn't DA:O 2).  Though I don't remember seeing a single thread complaining about the "lack-luster" side quests.  Enter DAI and NOW it's a big deal.

 

[Fandango]

Ok, I'll start it, since I made the call:

I would have swapped out a few of those maps - and all of the tedious ancillary quests contained within - for the opportunity to experience something a little closer to what was demoed at PAX for sure.

[NugHugs]

The side quests don't really need to be related to the main story, cutscenes, choices and dialogue options would be enough for me. Origin's Dalish camp side quest involving Gheyna and Cammen is a great example.

[Poison_Berrie]

I make no claims of moral or intellectual superiority. "Willful ignorance" is not an insult. Please don't put words in my mouth.

It is in how you've used it. 

 

You have put a certain quality to your emotional involvement of the quest and rated it higher and more valid than the quality Realmzmaster put on his reasons for liking a different quest. Then because he doesn't share the same qualities for things to like in quest you claim it to be willful ignorance. 

 

If you really were not trying to be insulting nor claiming superiority, I would suggest trying a lot harder.

[dlux]

Or they get the concept but can't figure out how filler content in the other games doesn't count as filler content because reasons.

Or maybe you just don't understand the discussion in this thread.
 
DA:I has 80% filler content (fetch quests, etc.) while other RPGs like DA:O have substantially less fetch quests or filler content. That is what we are discussing here.
 

Or all three of you are being just reasonlessly insultive because someone prefers something else then you.

I think you are being overly sensitive, because nobody is insulting you.
 
Like simplistic fetch quests and filler content all you want, nobody cares.

[pinkjellybeans]

Ok, I'm not going to quote everyone but I'm just going to say something and I think after this I'm done. This thread is getting nowhere.

 

In all my posts I've been talking about the complexity of the quests, not the actual content in them. In DAI nearly all quests are like the Chanter's board of DAO. Meaning, you get the quest, no dialogue, you do the quest, you're done. The only purpose is to give you money/XP/power and give you the impression you are cleaning up the world and making it better. I always give the example of the 10 ram quest because it's the first one that comes to my mind, but if you look at the other ones, it's basically the same. It's either you retrieving an object and returning it, or finding a dead body and telling someone about it, or claiming spots for watchtowers/supplies, or killing a bunch of bandits or wolves, or finding a note and going to spot X to claim the objects, etc. etc. It's fine if you think some of those "fit" the Inquisitor but the truth is, they are simply. filler. quests. They have no depth, no real story/lore behind them therefore no choices, no different outcomes, no interactions with the NPCs apart from the generic "what do you mean" or "goodbye". Yes, DAO has those quests, Chanter's board, Blackstone Irregulars, Mages Collective all have those quests. BUT the point we're trying to make, which everyone insists in ignoring, is that DAO has OTHER sidequests that are nothing like those. Ruck, Dagna, Cammen and Gheyna, the werewolf wife. DAI has nothing of the sort. It's all simple fetch/kill quests, it's a big Chanter's board. So it's not about a matter of opinions. People keep saying "Yes, but what about the Chanter's board quest number 4?" but they keep ignoring (intentionally or unintentionally) the other ones that are so much better and give you the opportunity to meet interesting NPCs and actually talk to them, know more about the place you're in, and make choices that shape your warden's personality. If you don't like the story of a particular quest, now that's a matter of opinion, and it's fine, but don't tell me you actually think that a simple fetch/kill quest is better than a sidequest with an actual story, choices, dialogue and different outcomes? If you do, then fine, you like fetch quests. I just can't understand why. Unless you're not a fan of storytelling and roleplaying. 

 

And people keep giving the same excuse. Killing 10 rams doesn't make a difference in the world, people won't die because you didn't hunt food for them, the rams won't go into extinction because you killed 10 in the same place, you won't gain any special treatment, nothing. The only thing that happens is, as you're passing by, you HEAR some random NPCs saying it made a difference for them. If that's enough for you to consider that quest is the best, then congratulations, you are Bioware's favorite customer. They certainly made their job right if some people believe they actually have an impact in the world by doing these fetch quests. But hey, if you like DAI quests, I'm happy for you. I'm not trying to be rude or trying to change someone's opinion, I just want people to understand where we're coming from and why we believe they can be better.

 

I'd like to make it clear (before someone jumps at me), I'm not a "nostalgic DAO fan" (like some people like to call) who thinks every game has to be like DAO. I actually fit in the small group of people that likes DA2 despite its flaws. And I like the direction Bioware is going with DAI, I just think that they desperately need to find a balance in their games. DA2 is too small, so a lot of reused areas (even though that didn't bother me much because most of the time I was distracted by the story happening around me), DAI is exaggeratedly huge with very little interesting things. If only they gave us half of the worlds we have now, I'm sure they would find the time to create some good sidequests like I described above. It's not impossible to have a bit of both sides, exploration plus well thought and developed sidequests. And that's what I want for DA4. (Also things like tactics, controls and combat actually improved and not dumbed down, but that's a discussion for another thread).

[Elhanan]

@ pinkytwist - While there are a lot of such quests in DAI, there are a lot of quests overall, and some have the same kind of quality as those mentioned from prior games. One may aid the Dalish, and recruit an agent from them; can speak with him occasionally afterwards. One may aid a merchant guild-leader, and have her continue to aid and support the Inquisition to obtain better goods and influence trade. And there are several relationships one may befriend if desired in the game; guards, refugees, agents, etc. While may not all may result in blissful results, they are present.

And while I cannot recall names, without a score of playthroughs, I doubt if I would have recognized the Dalish lovers either.

[wrdnshprd]

subjective opinions are subjective..

 

i personally enjoyed most of the side missions in DA:I.. and the ones i didnt, i skipped.

[pinkjellybeans]

One may aid the Dalish, and recruit an agent from them; can speak with him occasionally afterwards. 

 

The whole purpose of the Dalish quest is to gain enough favor to recruit the agent. So basically you have to do all the *gasp* fetch quests just to recruit him.

 

 

And there are several relationships one may befriend if desired in the game; guards, refugees, agents, etc. While may not all may result in blissful results, they are present.
 

 

I honestly have no idea what you mean by that, maybe I missed something or we're playing different games. You can barely talk to those people how can you befriend them?

[outlaw1109]

In all my posts I've been talking about the complexity of the quests, not the actual content in them. In DAI nearly all quests are like the Chanter's board of DAO. Meaning, you get the quest, no dialogue, you do the quest, you're done. The only purpose is to give you money/XP/power and give you the impression you are cleaning up the world and making it better. I always give the example of the 10 ram quest because it's the first one that comes to my mind, but if you look at the other ones, it's basically the same. It's either you retrieving an object and returning it, or finding a dead body and telling someone about it, or claiming spots for watchtowers/supplies, or killing a bunch of bandits or wolves, or finding a note and going to spot X to claim the objects, etc. etc. It's fine if you think some of those "fit" the Inquisitor but the truth is, they are simply. filler. quests. They have no depth, no real story/lore behind them therefore no choices, no different outcomes, no interactions with the NPCs apart from the generic "what do you mean" or "goodbye". Yes, DAO has those quests, Chanter's board, Blackstone Irregulars, Mages Collective all have those quests. BUT the point we're trying to make, which everyone insists in ignoring, is that DAO has OTHER sidequests that are nothing like those. Ruck, Dagna, Cammen and Gheyna, the werewolf wife. DAI has nothing of the sort. It's all simple fetch/kill quests, it's a big Chanter's board. So it's not about a matter of opinions. People keep saying "Yes, but what about the Chanter's board quest number 4?" but they keep ignoring (intentionally or unintentionally) the other ones that are so much better and give you the opportunity to meet interesting NPCs and actually talk to them, know more about the place you're in, and make choices that shape your warden's personality. If you don't like the story of a particular quest, now that's a matter of opinion, and it's fine, but don't tell me you actually think that a fetch/kill quest where you only have to kill animals or return an object is better than a sidequest with an actual story, choices, dialogue and different outcomes? If you do, then fine, you like fetch quests. I just can't understand why. Unless you're not a fan of storytelling and roleplaying, in that case, I'm not sure why you even played DAO. 

 

And people keep giving the same excuse. Killing 10 rams doesn't make a difference in the world, people won't die because you didn't hunt food for them, the rams won't go into extinction because you killed 10 in the same place, you won't gain any special treatment, nothing. The only thing that happens is, as you're passing by, you HEAR some random NPCs saying it made a difference for them. If that's enough for you to consider that quest is the best, then congratulations, you are Bioware's favorite customer. They certainly made their job right at making some people believe they actually have an impact in the world by doing these fetch quests. But hey, if you like DAI quests, I'm happy for you. I'm not trying to be rude or trying to change someone's opinion, I just want people to understand where we're coming from.

No, the rams don't go extinct, but their numbers do thin.  (if you hunt from a certain spawn group, they will spawn with fewer and fewer numbers).  I don't have to patience to see how "thin" the population becomes, but I do know if you kill all the nugs in Haven enough times, they will stop appearing.  

As to your statements about Ruck, Dagna and the other, those things are easy to come up with because we've all had a chance to actually play it a thousand times.  Where as, in Inquisition, IMO, many people don't have the reiteration of names via multiple play throughs just yet.  (though I'm sure this statement will be countered by "I remembered Dagna after the first playthrough").  Well I didn't.

An example of someone similar, IMO, would be that Avaar you meet.  I don't want to spoil much, but there are several characters just like him that are well done, but the time you spend with them is dwarfed by the time you spend in other parts of the game, making it easy to forget them.  Hell, if they inserted an EXACT duplicate of, say, the werewolf wife quest from Origins into DA:I, it would be just as forgettable. Because you spend 15 minutes with it...and then there's so much more...

You continue to perpetuate that ALL DAI side quests are "stupid filler" quests.  Yet, despite whoever says otherwise, you instead insinuate that they're wrong and are attacking you.

Personally, I find that I agree that all Bioware games have contained the same "filler" quests.  I think the difference between Origins and...well, any other one, is that Origins applied cinematic black bars and the illusion of choice.

 

[Elhanan]

The whole purpose of the Dalish quest is to gain enough favor to recruit the agent. So basically you have to do all the *gasp* fetch quests just to recruit him. 
 
I honestly have no idea what you mean by that, maybe I missed something or we're playing different games. You can barely talk to those people how can you befriend them?

One possible motive is to gain an Agent. One may also simply wish to aid the Dalish as the victims of another War; reason I was willing to part with some Great bear hides, as those were my first ones.

One could help the Guard find his partner, help parents find children, help reunite lovers, etc, or not; up to that Player. But as mentioned elsewhere, there can be feedback on performing such minor tasks, though that does not have to be present for the motivation either.

One can see these as annoying quests, or as simple tasks that aid others. I prefer the latter, as opposed to some outside mechanics such as Power , though Inq Pts are terrific.

[Realmzmaster]

It really is just a willful ignorance at this point.

 

Willful ignorance usually entails completely disregarding established facts, evidence and/or reasonable opinions. Since no facts or evidence is involved in this discussion I can only assume reasonable opinions. If that is the case my opinion is just as reasonable as yours. I could state that you are engaging in willful ignorance also since you choose not to see my reasonable opinion when others in this thread do. Or are those posters also willful ignorant?