Except that isn't true. You just repeatedly fail to grasp the concept of what filler content or fetch quests are.
Random encounters is what gives the game some life and color to the game. It even gives you the opportunity to craft unique weapons or even sell/buy some gear on the way.
Comparing crafting venom and traps to gathering 10 ram meat is just silly. Granted that both quests are monotonous, there is some significant difference between the two quests. One quest serves as a small tutorial and a heads-up for rogues that they got an unique advantage over other classes. What does killing and gathering 10 rams teach you? How to do fetch quests?
How is recruiting Sten even considered filler content? lol If you want to go down that road, it's no different from recruiting Vivienne, Iron Bull or Sera. They basically show up, "hey, I wanna be on your Inquisition thing" and that's it. You don't know any of them, yet you trust them and welcome them to the Inquisition after meeting them for like 2 minutes.
There is a difference. These guys tell their purpose (and except for Sera, they all have a valid one) to you and it is up to you whether you find it satisfactory. Sten just stands and admits killing innocent people. What if he wakes up at the camp and kills Leliana?
There is a difference. These guys tell their purpose (and except for Sera, they all have a valid one) to you and it is up to you whether you find it satisfactory. Sten just stands and admits killing innocent people. What if he wakes up at the camp and kills Leliana?
There is a difference. These guys tell their purpose (and except for Sera, they all have a valid one) to you and it is up to you whether you find it satisfactory. Sten just stands and admits killing innocent people. What if he wakes up at the camp and kills Leliana?
I'd think the fact that recruiting Sten or not makes you consider things like "what if he kills again?" is a good indication that it's at least better than most of the DA:I side quests where you don't think about it at all and there are no consequences to weigh or choices to make or consider. I can't say I've ever thought deeply on finding "mama's ring," gathering elfroots for the Dalish, or killing a wyvern.
I'd think the fact that recruiting Sten or not makes you consider things like "what if he kills again?" is a good indication that it's at least better than most of the DA:I side quests where you don't think about it at all and there are no consequences to weigh or choices to make or consider. I can't say I've ever thought deeply on finding "mama's ring," gathering elfroots for the Dalish, or killing a wyvern.
Sten isn't as bad as Zevran. He's a contract killer hired to kill you. I have never seen a good in-game rationale to take him along, although I love Zev.
The only good in-game reason for me is 'lack of non-archer rogue in the party' lol. Zevran at least tries to convince us and it is up to us to believe him. Sten does nothing of that sort. Also the fact Morrigan wants him freed makes me question it more
" I can't say I've ever thought deeply on finding "mama's ring," gathering elfroots for the Dalish, or killing a wyvern."
That way I never thought deeply about gathering health poultice for the healer or killing bears in Lothering or returning Deygan to the camp.
You're clearly a steadfast supporter of the DA:I style of sidequests, what is it about them that you like? I truly want to enjoy the sidequests in DA:I but I haven't found a reason to connect with any of them.The only good in-game reason for me is 'lack of non-archer rogue in the party' lol. Zevran at least tries to convince us and it is up to us to believe him. Sten does nothing of that sort. Also the fact Morrigan wants him freed makes me question it more
" I can't say I've ever thought deeply on finding "mama's ring," gathering elfroots for the Dalish, or killing a wyvern."
That way I never thought deeply about gathering health poultice for the healer or killing bears in Lothering or returning Deygan to the camp.
You're clearly a steadfast supporter of the DA:I style of sidequests, what is it about them that you like? I truly want to enjoy the sidequests in DA:I but I haven't found a reason to connect with any of them.
I am not a supporter or anything. I just accept them as they are as I believe such sidequests were always a part of all DA games. If you don't find a reason to connect with them, don't do it. I didn't recruit Sten in DAO because I saw no reason to. Killing the Wyvern will give you good loot and all those sidequest fights lets you experiment with combat styles. Most RPGS (all the popular ones like ES, Witcher) have such sidequests and I won't brood over another RPG having them.
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Can you give some examples of side-quests in DAO that were superior?
I am not a supporter or anything. I just accept them as they are as I believe such sidequests were always a part of all DA games. If you don't find a reason to connect with them, don't do it. I didn't recruit Sten in DAO because I saw no reason to. Killing the Wyvern will give you good loot and all those sidequest fights lets you experiment with combat styles. Most RPGS (all the popular ones like ES, Witcher) have such sidequests and I won't brood over another RPG having them.
No one is saying this type of quest should be cut altogether, but in previous BE games (as well as in TES, Witcher, etc...)there were other types of side quests as well where in DA:I the one solution fetch quests are the only type of side quests. I've never played a game before where fetch quests are the sole offering as far as side content (other than MMO's). Saying "just skip all side contet" isn't helpful because: 1) you can't. There are power requirements to progress the main story as well as no level scaling which leaves you under leveled unless you participate in the slog. Wether we want to or not, at least some of this side questing is required and 2) Many of us would rather give feedback on what we'd consider an improvement and hope it's better in future games and DLC. I don't want to skip the majority of the game, I want a majority that's actually fun in the future.
I am curious to know how many non-fetchy sidequests Witcher 2 had. I do think DAI has as much variety as DAO. Just because it is a much bigger game than Origins, people tend to notice boring ones more and forget the equally good ones. DAO never had anything as awesome as the dragons(they can be considered sidequests) found in Inquisition, companion quests are superior, Astrarium puzzles were a nice break and Origins didn't have anything quite like Crestwood. We all want more quality in everything but to say there are only one type of sidequests would be a bit dishonest imo.
Zevran is good looking and some people like to feel like they're living on the edge; adds to the thrill, also in bedSten isn't as bad as Zevran. He's a contract killer hired to kill you. I have never seen a good in-game rationale to take him along, although I love Zev.
I am curious to know how many non-fetchy sidequests Witcher 2 had. I do think DAI has as much variety as DAO. Just because it is a much bigger game than Origins, people tend to notice boring ones more and forget the equally good ones. DAO never had anything as awesome as the dragons(they can be considered sidequests) found in Inquisition, companion quests are superior, Astrarium puzzles were a nice break and Origins didn't have anything quite like Crestwood. We all want more quality in everything but to say there are only one type of sidequests would be a bit dishonest imo.
I think the difference lies in what aspects you enjoy. I enjoy personal interaction and differing outcomes as well as roleplay opportunities. I do not enjoy combat (well this style of combat at least) so killing dragons does nothing for me (as well as not actually being a quest) and neither does running from place to place killing enemy mobs and reading short notes. The astrariums are fine, but again I get nothing out of them. Maybe if the puzzles were challenging or the rewards were better than random trash it would be different but it's just easy connect the dots. I'm glad that they at least tried something a little different with that but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of the sidequests are "go here, get this, come back" with nothing to spice it up or the fact that none of the quests give choices or roleplay opportunities. I don't know how many Witcher sidequests are longer, deeper, and more engaging but it's more than zero which beats DA:I. (unless you count companion personal quests which I classify as a different thing) if there were quests like "The secrets of Loc Muinne" in DA:I I would be thrilled.
the fact that none of the quests give choices or roleplay opportunities. I don't know how many Witcher sidequests are longer, deeper, and more engaging but it's more than zero which beats DA:I.
Even if you somehow throw out text-dependent story quests for whatever personal preference you may feel, the above is simply inaccurate. Combining the dialogue-based interaction both at the beginning and end (judgments), the main regional quests in Crestwood, Emprise du Lion, and Western Approach (to a lesser degree) have choices, dialogue trees, and roleplay opportunities equivalent to any reasonable standard of the DA:O sidequests.
(unless you count companion personal quests which I classify as a different thing)
That's an extraordinarily convenient omission, given that DA:I companion quests are, on average, significantly more in-depth and open to roleplay than, say, the DA:O equivalents. If people are going to devote so much attention to how they find the sidequests to be lacking, a fair comparison of the companion content to DA:I's peers seems rather pertinent.
I think the difference lies in what aspects you enjoy. I enjoy personal interaction and differing outcomes as well as roleplay opportunities. I do not enjoy combat (well this style of combat at least) so killing dragons does nothing for me (as well as not actually being a quest) and neither does running from place to place killing enemy mobs and reading short notes. The astrariums are fine, but again I get nothing out of them. Maybe if the puzzles were challenging or the rewards were better than random trash it would be different but it's just easy connect the dots. I'm glad that they at least tried something a little different with that but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of the sidequests are "go here, get this, come back" with nothing to spice it up or the fact that none of the quests give choices or roleplay opportunities. I don't know how many Witcher sidequests are longer, deeper, and more engaging but it's more than zero which beats DA:I. (unless you count companion personal quests which I classify as a different thing) if there were quests like "The secrets of Loc Muinne" in DA:I I would be thrilled.
Because I don't care for a quest like the rhyming tree anywhere near as much as the conversation with Krem about his past. When, in another DA game, he'd be a nobody who wouldn't even get featured beyond IBs recruitment mission.
The funny thing is, I loved the rhyming tree tied to the mad hermit quest. I had zero interest asking transgender krem about her past. So she feels that she is a man and had to run away, good for her. I´ll take rhyming tree over her any day.
There is a difference. These guys tell their purpose (and except for Sera, they all have a valid one) to you and it is up to you whether you find it satisfactory. Sten just stands and admits killing innocent people. What if he wakes up at the camp and kills Leliana?
What I want to know is why do you consider it being filler. Also, how do you know if Iron Bull, Sera or Vivienne won't kill you in your sleep? You know nothing about them, just because you didn't meet them in a cage doesn't mean they haven't done horrible things in their past and are capable of mass murder. (I mean just the fact that Vivienne was willing to kill that guy at her party just because he was bothering you kind of shows how nuts she is and I wouldn't trust her one bit). I much rather recruit Sten because you see this man who just accepts that he's going to die because of what he's done and yet you change his fate, give him a reason to redeem himself. In Inquisition it's just "hey, I wanna help you save the world because [insert reason here, which is basically the same as the others]! Sign me in!"
I do think DAI has as much variety as DAO. Just because it is a much bigger game than Origins, people tend to notice boring ones more and forget the equally good ones. DAO never had anything as awesome as the dragons(they can be considered sidequests) found in Inquisition, companion quests are superior, Astrarium puzzles were a nice break and Origins didn't have anything quite like Crestwood. We all want more quality in everything but to say there are only one type of sidequests would be a bit dishonest imo.
No. Now you're just looking for other things in DAI to bring DAO down. We're talking about side quests. Dragons are not side quests. They are a part of the open world dynamic, it's expected that with such huge worlds we would get something challenging to break down the monotony of the fetch quests. So you can't compare that to DAO, which is not an open world so it wouldn't make sense to encounter 10 dragons in Ferelden.
The companions quests being superior is debatable though. Yes, some are, but some are just lazy writing. Like Vivienne's personal quest. It was so wtf and out of nowhere that I do not consider it being better than, let's say, Alistair and his sister Goldanna. Besides, character development is something that lacks in DAI.
Even if you somehow throw out text-dependent story quests for whatever personal preference you may feel, the above is simply inaccurate. Combining the dialogue-based interaction both at the beginning and end (judgments), the main regional quests in Crestwood, Emprise du Lion, and Western Approach (to a lesser degree) have choices, dialogue trees, and roleplay opportunities equivalent to any reasonable standard of the DA:O sidequests.
That's an extraordinarily convenient omission, given that DA:I companion quests are, on average, significantly more in-depth and open to roleplay than, say, the DA:O equivalents. If people are going to devote so much attention to how they find the sidequests to be lacking, a fair comparison of the companion content to DA:I's peers seems rather pertinent.
Well regardless of which you liked better, DA:O and DA:I both have companion quests. Both games' companion quests are short, and both involve a small degree of choice and roleplay elements. It's not as if one game has them and the other doesn't.
As for your assessment of the DA:I sidequests: you can like them if you want, but to say they involve choice, role playing, and NPC character building is jut false. The only one with any choice whatsoever is Imshael briefly offering you power or virgins in exchange for you not killing him. It was funny but seeing as how the game had done nothing to flesh out any of the villagers or the red Templars he was controlling I just didn't care. None of the side quests made me care. The game never does anything to "show" you reasons to care, it just "tells" you to care. It reminds me of DA2 where instead of developing Leandra as a character, they relied on the player going "I would be sad if my real mother died" to give any meaning to her death. It's the same with DA:I: you're given no reason to be attached to all the cardboard cutouts standing around the maps and are unable to talk to the vast majority but you're told "these people are in trouble and you should care." I should also state that quest giving "ser, please find my ring" and returning "thank you, I don't know what I would have done" are not what I mean when I say I want character interaction, roleplaying, and dialogue choice. As for the text based "story" not only is it shallow and uninteresting for the most part "the Inquisition is moving towards us, pull up stakes and the rest of us will be at ____ location" over and over again...yeah not compelling in the slightest. Not to mention that if text is the only thing making your quest a quest, then why are we playing a video game and not reading a book (which would give an infinitely better story than these side quests do)?
Well regardless of which you liked better, DA:O and DA:I both have companion quests. Both games' companion quests are short, and both involve a small degree of choice and roleplay elements. It's not as if one game has them and the other doesn't.
Again there's judgments, and more than a few of the agents give you an opportunity to suggest multiple paths forward besides being an agent. There is a lack of choice during the quests, though, before the end choice.As for your assessment of the DA:I sidequests: you can like them if you want, but to say they involve choice, role playing, and NPC character building is jut false. The only one with any choice whatsoever is Imshael briefly offering you power or virgins in exchange for you not killing him. It was funny but seeing as how the game had done nothing to flesh out any of the villagers or the red Templars he was controlling I just didn't care.[/background][/size]
Her death has meaning because at that point in her life things are finally turning around. She abandoned her lineage to run off with Hawke, flees the Blight, watches as one child is slain and the other taken from her in one way or another. But Hawke regains their estate and she finally feels comfortable enough to start dating again. For the first time in awhile it doesn't feel like her life is ending. Then she's killed by the man who she thinks has taken a fancy to her. If you don't feel for Leandra then I don't know what to say.The game never does anything to "show" you reasons to care, it just "tells" you to care. It reminds me of DA2 where instead of developing Leandra as a character, they relied on the player going "I would be sad if my real mother died" to give any meaning to her death.
I suppose there is something to be said for a game trying to be super cinematic with its main story and cast, then being heavily text-based with all its side stories. The alternatives don't appear much more attractive, though. Codices aren't going anywhere.Not to mention that if
text is the only thing making your quest a quest, then why are we playing a video game and not reading a book (which would give an infinitely better story than these side quests do)?
That's true for the quests, but DA: I's companions have more writing in general, which is impressive considering there are essentially 12 party members each with their own cutscenes, quests, and dialogue options.
As for your assessment of the DA:I sidequests: you can like them if you want, but to say they involve choice, role playing, and NPC character building is jut false. The only one with any choice whatsoever is Imshael briefly offering you power or virgins in exchange for you not killing him. It was funny but seeing as how the game had done nothing to flesh out any of the villagers or the red Templars he was controlling I just didn't care.
Again there's judgments, and more than a few of the agents give you an opportunity to suggest multiple paths forward besides being an agent.
Her death has meaning because at that point in her life things are finally turning around. She abandoned her lineage to run off with Hawke, flees the Blight, watches as one child is slain and the other taken from her in one way or another. But Hawke regains their estate and she finally feels comfortable enough to start dating again. For the first time in awhile it doesn't feel like her life is ending. Then she's killed by the man who she thinks has taken a fancy to her. If you don't feel for Leandra then I don't know what to say.
Since plenty of games are text-based this argument is dead in the water.
I do however agree with you about the lack of personality in the NPCs. There are too many NPCs in Skyhold in particular that have a bunch of Investigate options but nothing of much substance to say (or at least, they lack a memorable way to say it. Wade and his assistant in origins demonstrate more personality in a quest to give him dragon materials than most of the characters featured in Inquisition's zone quests do (like the Tevinter mage in the Approach, for example).
-DA:I isn't a text based game, and its text based quests are not in depth in any way, nor do they offer any kind of choice or role playing/character building.
-Even including judgments, that still means that none of the zones have anything of depth in them.
-Whatever reasons you've headcanoned to be sad about Leandra, it's just not something the story actually developed. If she wasn't Hawke's mother and was instead a refugee he'd taken in, everything else could have been the same but nobody would have cared about her death. She wasn't developed as a character and it's the same reason the majority didn't bat an eye over the Viscount's death but people would have been sad if the same thing happened to Bann Teagan for example.
-DA:I isn't a text based game, and its text based quests are not in depth in any way, nor do they offer any kind of choice or role playing/character building.
-Even including judgments, that still means that none of the zones have anything of depth in them.
-Whatever reasons you've headcanoned to be sad about Leandra, it's just not something the story actually developed. If she wasn't Hawke's mother and was instead a refugee he'd taken in, everything else could have been the same but nobody would have cared about her death. She wasn't developed as a character and it's the same reason the majority didn't bat an eye over the Viscount's death but people would have been sad if the same thing happened to Bann Teagan for example.
Leandra's story was quite developed. Her feelings, her fears, her emotions are explicitly shown, told, shoved in your face. She had a tough life she never regretted. I don't know how an npc could be more developed. Just to name one of the more prominent parts is when she was begging you not to take your sibling with you.
So because the judgment occurs at Skyhold instead of in the zone it doesn't count?
There's no headcanon involved. Everything I said is either a fact or something Leandra tells you about her state of mind.
It's not that it doesn't count, but that still leaves huge empty areas with nothing of value in them. I would like to actually do something fun and interesting while I'm in the world.
It's not that it doesn't count, but that still leaves huge empty areas with nothing of value in them. I would like to actually do something fun and interesting while I'm in the world.
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