348 réponses à ce sujet

[DemGeth]

Eh my crit mage was by far my highest damage dealer not sure what you're doing wrong.

[Selea]

If you read my rants more carefully, probably you will understand that my complaint about magic and mages has nothing to do with elemental inmunities or difficulty. What I loathe from Inquistion is that mage's role has diverged from the classical damage-dealer or crystal cannon to a weird "crowd-blocking-control" machine that deals low level damage. The fact is, no matter how you diversificate your spells, powerful enemies are inmune to the blocking aspects of magic, which is the primary role of the new magic schools.

 

It is just because I've read your "rants" that I know how wrong you are.

If you really think that mages are weak in this game then you are obviously doing something wrong. A Rfit Mage nuke build is so insanely powerful by mid game as to make practically every encounter a joke. You can clear a room of high level enemies in literally seconds. I sincerely don't know how one can even remotely insist that mages are "weak" or are "not damage dealers" in the game as they are practically set to do almost fully damage. 

Now if you were complaining that mages have much less utility spells I could say you are right (even if given the gameplay they are not so necessary) but if you really insist that you cannot do a "glass cannon nuke mage" in DA:I you are so wrong that I cannot either fathom as how one can be so wrong. This is on par of people that insist that DW rogues are weak even when there are videos around of people killing solo the Highlander Ravagers in less than 20 seconds without using a focus ability.

Just a single example: the entry of Adamant fortress; there are a group of demons + some wardens + plus two spellbinders. With a Rift Mage build you can practically full clear that area in about 5 seconds (alone). PoTA + Immolate + Static Cage + Chain Lightning + Stonefist = goodbye everyone (nightmare on top of Static Cage is something that you have to see to understand). In less high level encounters it's even easier and you just usually need PoTA + Fire Mine + Chain Lightning to clear the room in less than 2 seconds. I even stopped completely using Fire Mine and Static Cage after a while because they were too insanely powerful in combo with PoTA (the amount of sunder, nightmare, shatter, rupture etc. you can do is completely over the top) and you seriously even pretend that "mages are not damaging". Oh well...

Divinity mages are less based on pure damage than DA:I are, actually. They are so great in the game for the environmental effects and CC capabilities, but for what it concerns pure damage even against multiple enemies scoundrels are better (not so in DA:I where DW rogues are clearly better only against single very powerful targets, as it should be btw).

[Morroian]

It is just because I've read your "rants" that I know how wrong you are.

If you really think that mages are weak in this game then you are obviously doing something wrong. A Rfit Mage nuke build is so insanely powerful by mid game as to make practically every encounter a joke. You can clear a room of high level enemies in literally seconds. I sincerely don't know how one can even remotely insist that mages are "weak" or are "not damage dealers" in the game as they are practically set to do almost fully damage. 

 

This is essentially 1 build, and there's also the KE and thats it. No variety to speak of.

[Dgyre]

I'm about to start my 3rd play through and I'm just enjoying it more and more.  Not as good as Origins, but a truly great game in my opinion.  Sorry you are not enjoying it.

[DemGeth]

This is essentially 1 build, and there's also the KE and thats it. No variety to speak of.

No you can go straight elemental no spec. Or dip into the necro tree. Or dip into rift.

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Agree that Mages are plenty powerful in DAI.  I find that having two in my party (along with my Dwarf Rogue Inquisitor, and a Warrior to, you know, draw aggro and use "Bash" when required) is far more useful than having two Warriors.  In fact, if it weren't for needing "Bash" or wanting to hear Cassandra's banter, I'd seldom have a Warrior at all!

[Salaya]

It is just because I've read your "rants" that I know how wrong you are.

If you really think that mages are weak in this game then you are obviously doing something wrong. A Rfit Mage nuke build is so insanely powerful by mid game as to make practically every encounter a joke. You can clear a room of high level enemies in literally seconds. I sincerely don't know how one can even remotely insist that mages are "weak" or are "not damage dealers" in the game as they are practically set to do almost fully damage. 

Now if you were complaining that mages have much less utility spells I could say you are right (even if given the gameplay they are not so necessary) but if you really insist that you cannot do a "glass cannon nuke mage" in DA:I you are so wrong that I cannot either fathom as how one can be so wrong. This is on par of people that insist that DW rogues are weak even when there are videos around of people killing solo the Highlander Ravagers in less than 20 seconds without using a focus ability.

Just a single example: the entry of Adamant fortress; there are a group of demons plus two spellbinders. With a Rift Mage build you can practically clear that area in about 5 seconds. PoTA + Immolate + Static Cage + Chain Lightning + Stonefist = goodbye everyone (nightmare on top of Static Cage is something that you have to see to understand). In less high level encounters it's even easier and you just usually need PoTA + Fire Mine + Chain Lightning to clear the room in less than 2 seconds. I even stopped completely using Fire Mine and Static Cage after a while because they were too insanely powerful in combo with PoTA (the amount of sunder, nightmare, shatter, rupture etc. you can do is completely over the top) and you seriously even pretend that "mages are not damaging". Oh well...

Divinity mages are less based on pure damage than DA:I are, actually. They are so great in the game for the environmental effects and CC capabilities, but for what it concerns pure damage even against multiple enemies scoundrels are better (not so in DA:I where DW rogues are clearly better only against single very powerful targets, as it should be btw).

 

Again, you should read more carefully. I've never said that you could not devise a build to mitigate or overcome the problem with DA:I mages. That is, you overcome their main purpose, which is, even stated by the devs, a class for blocking and control foes. You need to be very careful to build a mage that deals high amounts of damage, and your post is exactly proof of what I say. But again, you try to discuss an imaginary argument in which I say the things you believe I've said.

 

Divinity: Original Sin mages are classical cristal cannons that also have the ability to use environmental effects to block foes and change terrain to produce tactical effects. That is perfectly obvious to anyone who plays the game. Every magic school has classic mage spells for raw power, along with elemental changers that produce blocking effects. I find comical that you compare both.

 

If you believe that Inquistion mages are exceptional damage dealers because you devised a build to overcome their main role, that's fine with me, but please, spare me your paternalism.
 

[Obsidian Gryphon]

Been playing since launch day and sticking to one class (warrior, unlikely to create other classes since I can take control of companions), currently on fourth play round with a fifth in mind.

[dekkerd]

A loved the game. Can't wait to start a new playthrough.

[dlux]

Been playing since launch day and sticking to one class (warrior, unlikely to create other classes since I can take control of companions), currently on fourth play round with a fifth in mind.

You must love your basement.

[In Exile]

Again, you should read more carefully. I've never said that you could not devise a build to mitigate or overcome the problem with DA:I mages. That is, you overcome their main purpose, which is, even stated by the devs, a class for blocking and control foes. You need to be very careful to build a mage that deals high amounts of damage, and your post is exactly proof of what I say. But again, you try to discuss an imaginary argument in which I say the things you believe I've said.

Divinity: Original Sin mages are classical cristal cannons that also have the ability to use environmental effects to block foes and change terrain to produce tactical effects. That is perfectly obvious to anyone who plays the game. Every magic school has classic mage spells for raw power, along with elemental changers that produce blocking effects. I find comical that you compare both.

If you believe that Inquistion mages are exceptional damage dealers because you devised a build to overcome their main role, that's fine with me, but please, spare me your paternalism.

It may be my own playstyle but even in DAI it's hard for me to build a controller type mage. It's just not my style. I also find the majority of mage abilities quite poor at controlling or blocking enemies, since no class has any AOE to make clumping them useful beside the mage. I thought ice or fire wall would be useful, but in practice it's quite the opposite. The only tree IMO Bioware ever made that was a good controller post the pure "paralyse a group" spells was Force Mage.

[WillieStyle]

Again, you should read more carefully. I've never said that you could not devise a build to mitigate or overcome the problem with DA:I mages. That is, you overcome their main purpose, which is, even stated by the devs, a class for blocking and control foes. You need to be very careful to build a mage that deals high amounts of damage, and your post is exactly proof of what I say. But again, you try to discuss an imaginary argument in which I say the things you believe I've said.

 

Sigh!  The entire ****** point of skills/talents is to overcome the weaknesses or accentuate the strengths of the base class.  Also, isn't the careful selection of skills/talents to make your character more powerful one of the core RPG elements I keep hearing about?  You're basically criticizing DA:I for being well designed.

 

But what makes your post especially egregious is that you don't even have to be that careful to make a powerful Mage.  The build you were responding to basically amounts to: use Pull of the Abyss to group enemies together; then hit them with AoE spells for arcane murder goodness.

 

Or you could just spec Static Cage + Energy Barrage + Elemental Staves of your choosing and watch the area of effect damage fly.  

 

Now this may be uncharitable, but at this point, it seems your complaints amount to you being bad at this game and demanding that Mages have all the strengths of the other classes without any weaknesses to make up for your badness.

[Darkly Tranquil]

You must love your basement.

[WillieStyle]

As for control, DA:I made two changes that I think are very sound:

1. Damaging spells and abilities have control wrapped into them: Winter's Grasp freezes, Lightening Bolt Paralyzes, Mighty Blow knocks down, Twin Fangs knocks out enemies if you do it from behind; etc.  Of course, abilities that have control effects tend to either deal less damage or cost more mana/stamina than abilities that don't.
2. Control spells with long durations - particularly those that don't break when the target is damaged - have been removed for the most part.  This is a very, very, good thing.  One of the horrendous sacred cows from DnD are control spells that render the enemy powerless for long enough for the caster to entirely annihilate them.  I'm looking at you: time stop (NWN); glyph of paralysis (DA:O); and Singularity (ME1).  Such control is terrible game design that needs to die in a chemical fire.

[In Exile]

Time stop was just hilariously good fun at first. When combined with Meteor Swarm(s).

[WillieStyle]

Time stop was just hilariously good fun at first. When combined with Meteor Swarm(s).

 

I see your Time Stop + Meteor Swarm and raise you a Time Stop + Spell Tigger + 3xSunfire.  Remarkably fun the first 17 times you use it.  

DnD: the ruleset designed by Gandalf wannabes who are bad at math.

[Selea]

If you believe that Inquistion mages are exceptional damage dealers because you devised a build to overcome their main role, that's fine with me, but please, spare me your paternalism.

 

I didn't "overcome their main role", actually I played with that role. It's obvious if you look at the trees and the type of stats they augment to what the principal builds are focused upon.

Rift Mage is obviously setup as to be a glass cannon nuke build, given the almost complete focus on magic/willpower to the exclusion of con or cun (this is also evidenced by the sheer amount of mana regen of the spec). KE is instead focused on a battlemage hybrid with a great focus on con to increase the damage you can sustain. Necro is the summoning/control build, with some mix of stats increased.

Then, you have a decision on what to do, even when the specs are builded to go in a certain direction. You can choose to focus on that point more or to do a mix, that's up to you with the skills you choose to get (since I wanted to create a full nuke build then naturally I focused on raw damage skills).

 

The difference between the way DA:I and Divinity approaches the matter is only apparent, in reality. You think that in Divinity you have a choice to build the Wizard as a glass cannon with ample variation but in reality it is the exact same thing as in DA:I and the only difference is on how that choice is approached. In DA:I you have a spec that is setup to do a certain thing while in Divinity you have the apparent freedom to do that on your own, but it is only appearance because to do a glass cannon wizard you have anyway to go on a well defined direction, same as taking a spec that does it for you. The stats to focus on are the same, the talents to take are the same, to go a glass cannon wizard in Divinity is a well traced path. What's the difference in this from taking a spec that automatically arranges that for you? None.

[Salaya]

Sigh!  The entire ****** point of skills/talents is to overcome the weaknesses or accentuate the strengths of the base class.  Also, isn't the careful selection of skills/talents to make your character more powerful one of the core RPG elements I keep hearing about?  You're basically criticizing DA:I for being well designed.

 
No, I'm criticizing Inquistion for deviating from the role that has been the norm for the two past games and the initial expectations I had, since I love mages in crpgs. I don't know if giving me that or giving me the mages of Inquistion is bad or good design. Nor that I care. You say you hear that, but certainly not from me, so I don't understand why do you bring other people words to this discussion. Maybe to turn it into something even more absurd?
 

But what makes your post especially egregious is that you don't even have to be that careful to make a powerful Mage. The build you were responding to basically amounts to: use Pull of the Abyss to group enemies together; then hit them with AoE spells for arcane murder goodness.

Or you could just spec Static Cage + Energy Barrage + Elemental Staves of your choosing and watch the area of effect damage fly.

Yeah, that's estupendous. It seems it's my fault for being a bit slow or retarded; you state this as it is a prerrogative of intelligent people to like mage builds in Inquisition, since those builds are obvious choice to anyone. Ok then; yes, it's my fault not liking those exceptional builds you make for overcoming the main role of mages. Kudos for you.
 

Now this may be uncharitable, but at this point, it seems your complaints amount to you being bad at this game and demanding that Mages have all the strengths of the other classes without any weaknesses to make up for your badness.

As always, no. I don't want that. I want mages to be crystal cannons in the way they were in the two past games or in a more classical sense. If you believe building those mages is perfectly normal and it's my fault not liking them, yes, of course: I'm bad at this game. And that's the only reason I don't like the new mage role. Not because I have a different perception or I have different tastes; of course not! It's because I'm bad.

I understand when people have different perspectives or opinions; but I don't get why people tends to get so personal with it.

[Salaya]

It may be my own playstyle but even in DAI it's hard for me to build a controller type mage. It's just not my style. I also find the majority of mage abilities quite poor at controlling or blocking enemies, since no class has any AOE to make clumping them useful beside the mage. I thought ice or fire wall would be useful, but in practice it's quite the opposite. The only tree IMO Bioware ever made that was a good controller post the pure "paralyse a group" spells was Force Mage.

 

Yep, but it's a bit frustrating since in theory, Blizzard is a pretty nice AoE damging spell, and that belief lured me to the school like a devilish trap ; but the thing is, Ice mage gets very annoying the moment you delve deep into it! In theory it's a cool (no pun intended) tree, but in the long run turns out to be pretty boring. You have some good combinations and "mystic" effects out there, but in many occasions you stumble upone enemies inmune to its effects and its difficult to elaborate them. I didn't want to, but if I ever get to play the game again I would probably buy the respec potion...

[Salaya]

I didn't "overcome their main role", actually I played with that role. It's obvious if you look at the trees and the type of stats they augment to what the principal builds are focused upon.

Rift Mage is obviously setup as to be a glass cannon nuke build, given the almost complete focus on magic/willpower to the exclusion of con or cun (this is also evidenced by the sheer amount of mana regen of the spec). KE is instead focused on a battlemage hybrid with a great focus on con to increase the damage you can sustain. Necro is the summoning/control build, with some mix of stats increased.

Then, you have a decision on what to do, even when the specs are builded to go in a certain direction. You can choose to focus on that point more or to do a mix, that's up to you with the skills you choose to get (since I wanted to create a full nuke build then naturally I focused on raw damage skills).

 
It's not obvious at all. In paper, Blizzard is a great spell, but when in practice, it's usefulness is hindered by the fact that a lot of enemies are inmune to the blocking effect. That's not something you see in the spell trees. Also, to do the kind of build you suggest you need a great deal of comprehension of the system. All of those builds are based upon specs, which you may or may not reach within the game. 
 
But even then, Rift Mage is not an obvious crystal cannon. It has only one damage dealing spell that relies on a combo to be remotely effective. Since many enemies I find are inmune to the first step of that combination, the very concept of crystal cannons falls apart. The rest of the tree with the exception of the passive that let's you deal damage to -surprise surprise- blocked enemies, is devised as a mass blocker or incapacitation enchanter. 
 
Again, I'm afraid I disagree with you: you just find a way to overcome the main role that the devs gave to mages. And even then, I don't consider it effective in the way I understand classical glass cannons, since it relies in combos and mid-late game events that may or may not happen.
 

The difference between the way DA:I and Divinity approaches the matter is only apparent, in reality. You think that in Divinity you have a choice to build the Wizard as a glass cannon with ample variation but in reality it is the exact same thing as in DA:I and the only difference is on how that choice is approached. In DA:I you have a spec that is setup to do a certain thing while in Divinity you have the apparent freedom to do that on your own, but it is only appearance because to do a glass cannon wizard you have anyway to go on a well defined direction, same as taking a spec that does it for you. The stats to focus on are the same, the talents to take are the same, to go a glass cannon wizard in Divinity is a well traced path. What's the difference in this from taking a spec that automatically arranges that for you? None.

In divinity you have books to learn magic spells that deal raw power since the beginning to the end. In inquistion you need to delve deep into the magic schools to overcome the damage dealing power. The first is -for me- a classical crystal cannon. The second one is a weird magic user that bores me to pieces.

[finc.loki]

I wouldn't say it is either good or bad.  I'd say that some people are entitled little shits who view the implementation of any feature that doesn't appeal to them personally as an affront.  Such people often love to complain on the internet, even - or rather especially - about games/teams/things that they love.

 

But of course, I lack the remarkable sense of perspective required to compare voluntary purchases of a video game to domestic violence.  So who cares what I think. 

And some are just shits in general.

 

People voicing an opinion for a game they paid for and a franchise they like is apparently not OK. Wonder what the forums are for, sycophantic brown-nosers such as yourself perhaps?

 

 

 

 I lack the remarkable sense of perspective required to compare voluntary purchases of a video game to domestic violence.

Or just lack sense.

[EmissaryofLies]

I have massive problems with the biased agenda driven narrative. But the character writing is good enough to make me stay for now. Hoping that the expansion/dlc does not disappoint.

 

The protagonist limitations are easily the worst part of the game for me; it's a step back from Hawke and the Warden.

[Little Princess Peach]

finsihed the game three times and im still finding new things I missed before but sometimes I have to force my self to keep playing because lol boredom so many fricken side quests

[Gannayev of Dreams]

I have about 100 hours spread out over a few characters. Not a single one has made it past the story missions in

Spoiler

Crestwood

. Only things that really bothers me so far are the

Spoiler

scarcity of Rune materials coupled with the fact they're consumable. Seriously, one of these factors needs to be tweaked. Either make them easier to make/find or make them swappable like in Origins. I've got fade-touched materials for days but nothing for runes.

 

I pace myself pretty well in this game, mostly because I don't get a lot of time for long game sessions, but also because I have other things to do/play in between said sessions.

[dekarserverbot]

once again mixed feelings...

 

I will agree that the game is not as interesting as DAO but some people are talking like if this one was another DA2... i disagree completely in wanting the game to end soon because i lost interest (i never did, unlike in crappy DA2 where I wanted it to finish because the quests there were even more boring than our actual fetch quests)

 

Many people keep complaining with the controls, i had no issues with those and i play just with mouse and keyboard. IDK how could everyone be such crybabies just because you have to hold a mouse button instead of point and click. However i agree that the tactical cam was rendered useless. and sadly i see no difference between normal and nightmare.

 

About crafting is good for customizing your armor and weapons, but sadly it still fails. Rune crafting is like minecraft and god, i hate that game more than i hate DA2, and all BSN knows how much i hate DA2, also the idea of going back to skyhold/haven just to equip gauntlets is fatal. A patch should be developed with a vendor that sells runes or rune materials even if expensive ASAP or at least make them not consumable

 

Overall DAI is worth playable but has not the magic of DAO, I feel it more like a saints row than a dragon age game and the entire power system is not helping. Some of the quests are so stupid (like specializations for inquisitor) that going through them limits your options with both, when replaying the game  and character build. The issue that developers think we are stupid makes me angry, why am i not allowed to invest my points by myself? why am i forced to use the old Final Fantasy level up system where i could not customize my stats? why can't I be a brute rogue/tank mage? those things are pulling my leg badly