My Herald of Andraste firmly believes he's the Chosen of the Maker.
Even though it's very-very questionable.
And I liked how Corypheus reacted to my claims with stunned disbelief.
Like, "Okay, I'm dealing with a crazy person."
Corypheus thought YOU were a crazy person?
Well I felt the game really pushed the Chantry faith onto me what with Divine Justinia appearing and then turning into a Holy Radiant Being (complete with golden light and all) while the Dalish belief system took repeated hits of misfortune. "Everything you've ever known and believed is A LIE!!"
Needless to say, I'm bitter.
This conflict was my favorite thing about playing a Dalish Inquisitor. On the one hand, you have the bulk of the Inquisition trying to either get you to believe you are the Herald of Andraste or at least fake it enough to play the part, in the name of the greater good. On the other hand, if you are playing a character who believes in the Dalish gods and legends, your faith is being challenged at seemingly every turn. To me, that is a much more interesting conflict than Corypheus' physical threat.
So I think the deeper aspect of what is guiding a character's moral compass in the face of evidence that their religion may be false or that it may be the literal truth adds a fascinating layer of complexity to the whole debate.
I agree. I think that a conflict that can challenge your moral compass and/or faith is very compelling. They are the types of conflicts that allow your character to change and grow and generally be dynamic. Dynamic characters change and they only change if they are challenged in a fundamental/foundational way.
Friendly reminder that it's a running joke in America to go to Europe and say you're Canadian, cause then everyone will hate you less/like you more >.>
Was a running joke of my grandfathers army buddies that with without them Europe would be speaking German.
I didn't like the discussion of faith in the game because it equated faith with being solely an emotional support network. Very rarely did it touch upon the idea of people believing something because they think it to be the literal truth.
After adamant I talked to mother Gisele about what the divine said, that it was not andraste that saved me (which is what i been saying all along). Suddenly it's "Oh no, you're only ALLEGORICALY the herald". Wtf? And then she didn't want me to share the truth with the faithful, one of the many reasons I didn't like Gisele.
Faith is about more than finding comfort in community or the existence of a higher power. The fact that the chant of light is right about how the blight began is compelling evidence as to the authenticity of the whole thing. Truth is important.
I'm pretty sure that the chant isn't right about how the blight began, but is likely partially right, We only know that there's a big honking city in the fade, and that it appears that the magisters spread the blight.
Like everyother group in the game, Andrastians are probablly partially right and partially wrong. If the black city turns out to be something other than what they believe, that doesn't mean the maker doesn't exist--and it doesn't mean that he does. The fact that it wasn't Andraste who was bodily in the fade with the inquisitor doesn't mean that he/she isn't the herald of Andraste--and it doesn't mean that he is. Whether or not details of the faith or things that people use to argue pro and con are misunderstood or true have no bearing on the truth of any of it, they're just human rationale for the unknowable.
All of it can be true. All of it can be not true. Neither is proven. Either is equally possible.
I'd address the issue of the elven gods, but the forum gets way too vehement about elves for me to want to touch that with a ten foot pole, lol.
I'm pretty sure that the chant isn't right about how the blight began, but is likely partially right, We only know that there's a big honking city in the fade, and that it appears that the magisters spread the blight.
Like everyother group in the game, Andrastians are probablly partially right and partially wrong. If the black city turns out to be something other than what they believe, that doesn't mean the maker doesn't exist--and it doesn't mean that he does. The fact that it wasn't Andraste who was bodily in the fade with the inquisitor doesn't mean that he/she isn't the herald of Andraste--and it doesn't mean that he is. Whether or not details of the faith or things that people use to argue pro and con are misunderstood or true have no bearing on the truth of any of it, they're just human rationale for the unknowable.
All of it can be true. All of it can be not true. Neither is proven. Either is equally possible.
The Chant of Light is the only thing that is even remotely accurate about how the First Blight began. Moreover, Andraste preached it at a time when no one knew how the Blight began. Whatever else she was, she clearly had access to special knowledge. That makes it more likely that the Chant of Light as a whole is correct.
The only other faith with any proof behind it is the dwarven ancestor worship. DA:I showed that the Stone (i.e. lyrium) is alive. The Avaar faith is unfounded. The Dalish tales are just twisted versions of historical figures. The Old Gods of the Imperium have fallen silent.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
It was good. My favorite moment of the game was during 'In Your Heart Shall Burn'.
Whether you agree with a particular faith or not (in this instance the chant of light) is irrelevant. Many are faithful because they think it is true, not just because they like the idea that it MIGHT be true. Any examination of faith that doesn't deal with "truth" in faith is annoying and incomplete.
In the game in Haven there's ambient dialogue between an elf and a priestess where the elf asks about Shartan, and the priestess flat out denies he existed. How about dealing with the lies the faithful tell themselves in order to feel good about themselves?
Yeah, this is my only problem with the way "Faith" was handled in this game.
I thought it was ok. Being Christian, I couldn't help but make the comparison that the Maker was GoD and Andraste was Jesus Christ. I also thought it was cool that you can make your character's faith know through certain Dialogue.
But I know there are other religions in Thedas, but we got a Heavy dose of Andrastian religion. And as someone who is fairly new to the DA series, I'd like to know more about other religions.
Or Islam.
Yeah, the only other philosophy/world view/faith that gets presented is the Qun. Solas presents a surprisingly optimistic humanist philosophy - or whatever you call an elf that rejects his elfiness half the time. 
I think that was more for the benefit of the player than the player character. Bioware never assumes everyone playing their games is familiar with the lore.
Instead of having the Elf ask the question, the same option choses as an Elf should have given a statement instead of a question. That way if the player doesn't know who Mythal is, the dalish character tells them instead of asking a question they should know the answer of.
Instead of having the Elf ask the question, the same option choses as an Elf should have given a statement instead of a question. That way if the player doesn't know who Mythal is, the dalish character tells them instead of asking a question they should know the answer of.
That would have been a nice option. It didn't bother me because my Dalish took every opportunity she could to poke at the humans. Yes, by all means, educate me about the ways of these strange creatures called "elves."
Well I felt the game really pushed the Chantry faith onto me what with Divine Justinia appearing and then turning into a Holy Radiant Being (complete with golden light and all) while the Dalish belief system took repeated hits of misfortune. "Everything you've ever known and believed is A LIE!!"
Needless to say, I'm bitter.
I don't get this. One of the creators is up and walking around and will dally with a female Lavellan. How is that not affirming your religion? Naturally with Solas it's meta-knowledge, but you also meet Mythal and see her power demonstrated.
The Andrastian beliefs about spirits and the Fade are also turned on their heads, though you can choose to deny what you see. No Maker or Andraste ever shows up despite everyone believing it. The absent god has never been more absent- unless you buy the unseen hand theory. The being you encounter in the Fade is either a spirit or a ghost of a living person. That doesn't affirm anything we didn't already know before going in.
I don't get this. One of the creators is up and walking around and will dally with a female Lavellan. How is that not affirming your religion? Naturally with Solas it's meta-knowledge, but you also meet Mythal and see her power demonstrated.
The Andrastian beliefs about spirits and the Fade are also turned on their heads, though you can choose to deny what you see. No Maker or Andraste ever shows up despite everyone believing it. The absent god has never been more absent- unless you buy the unseen hand theory. The being you encounter in the Fade is either a spirit or a ghost of a living person. That doesn't affirm anything we didn't already know before going in.
Other than what Corypheus says, I can't think of anything that specifically disproves any aspect of Andrastian religion.The Maker could still be real, Andraste could have still saved you (if you want to believe that the spirit saving you was Andraste's will). Generally, if you already believed in Chantry doctrine, there's nothing I can think of that might force you to reconsider the whole thing.
As for the Dalish, it seems to me that, yes, at the very least you can discover that a very powerful being named Mythal existed and exists. But if your Dalish is harboring any doubts after hearing about the vallaslin, Arlathan's fall, Mythal's murder, Red Crossing, etc, then even if the elven gods are real, how can you assume that you know anything at all about them? You may believe in the elven gods, and you may now *know* that they were real, but do you still honor them, when you can't be sure who they even are?
One thing to remember about Corypheus is that, despite the fact that he existed at the time, there's no reason to believe he is telling the truth. We saw when he awoke in DA2 that he was confused as all hell. Memory is a fickle thing, and it can dull and warp with time. Ask anyone who tells old stories. They change after, what, a year? Ten? Fifty? Corypheus is over a thousand, and spent most of that time bound and unable to consciously do anything.
We know that Mythal and the elven gods existed, though we have no proof what actually happened to them. Abelas only claimed Mythal was murdered, that Fen'Harel had nothing to do with it, and later, she possessed Flemeth, who was as the legend originally claimed (though we don't know if it's Flemeth's or Leliana's version that was the truth). Solas doesn't think she was a god (and I'm inclined to believe him).
As for the Dalish, it seems to me that, yes, at the very least you can discover that a very powerful being named Mythal existed and exists. But if your Dalish is harboring any doubts after hearing about the vallaslin, Arlathan's fall, Mythal's murder, Red Crossing, etc, then even if the elven gods are real, how can you assume that you know anything at all about them? You may believe in the elven gods, and you may now *know* that they were real, but do you still honor them, when you can't be sure who they even are?
Except for the part were they meet at least two elven gods, you mean.
This conflict was my favorite thing about playing a Dalish Inquisitor. On the one hand, you have the bulk of the Inquisition trying to either get you to believe you are the Herald of Andraste or at least fake it enough to play the part, in the name of the greater good. On the other hand, if you are playing a character who believes in the Dalish gods and legends, your faith is being challenged at seemingly every turn. To me, that is a much more interesting conflict than Corypheus' physical threat.
I agree. I think that a conflict that can challenge your moral compass and/or faith is very compelling. They are the types of conflicts that allow your character to change and grow and generally be dynamic. Dynamic characters change and they only change if they are challenged in a fundamental/foundational way.
The andrastians with their conveniently absent deity only have a fairy tale called the chant to tell them anything about it. That fairy tale has been compiled in many stages through the centuries by people, not divine beings. Beyond Andraste herself existing, everything else in there has long been mangled beyond recognition and any truth buried under avalanche of fiction added later.
Not to belabor the point, but the Chant of Light is right about where the darkspawn come from. Not the dwarves, who think they came from underground; not the Imperium, who thought they were always there; and not even the elves, who according to Merril don't really know beyond blaming humans. The Canticle of Threnodies is as close to a step by step guide to what caused the First Blight as you are likely to get.
Furthermore, the Chant of Light is not solely a product of the Chantry because of the existence of the Guardian of the Urn of Sacred Ashes. In his trials in DA:O you see things that are left out or glossed over in the Chant. You see Maferath, Shartan and Hessarian. You see Andraste's mother, who talks of recieving visions of Andraste's life to come; you see her best friend talk about how Andraste changed after her revelation. The Guardian and the culture that guarded the Urn (which, you find by pursuing war table missions, had settlements on the islands off Ferelden) are a lineage that goes all the way back to when Andraste was alive. The Guardian safeguards more than just the Urn; he safeguards the truth of Andraste's life and her Exalted March on Tevinter.
Guest_TheDarkKnightReturns_*
Not to belabor the point, but the Chant of Light is right about where the darkspawn come from. Not the dwarves, who think they came from underground; not the Imperium, who thought they were always there; and not even the elves, who according to Merril don't really know beyond blaming humans. The Canticle of Threnodies is as close to a step by step guide to what caused the First Blight as you are likely to get.
Furthermore, the Chant of Light is not solely a product of the Chantry because of the existence of the Guardian of the Urn of Sacred Ashes. In his trials in DA:O you see things that are left out or glossed over in the Chant. You see Maferath, Shartan and Hessarian. You see Andraste's mother, who talks of recieving visions of Andraste's life to come; you see her best friend talk about how Andraste changed after her revelation. The Guardian and the culture that guarded the Urn (which, you find by pursuing war table missions, had settlements on the islands off Ferelden) are a lineage that goes all the way back to when Andraste was alive. The Guardian safeguards more than just the Urn; he safeguards the truth of Andraste's life and her Exalted March on Tevinter.
There's a lot of evidence to support that Andraste was the Old God baby of Dumat. With the Well of Sorrows revelation in DA:I there's also evidence that supports she drank from a similar Well.
That said, nothing stops Andraste from being the Maker's Will even if one of those two instances were true.
And the Blight predates the trespass into the Golden City.
That's how faith generally works. No one knows their gods, not truly. The andrastians with their conveniently absent deity only have a fairy tale called the chant to tell them anything about it. That fairy tale has been compiled in many stages through the centuries by people, not divine beings. Beyond Andraste herself existing, everything else in there has long been mangled beyond recognition and any truth buried under avalanche of fiction added later. So in the end...the andrastians don't know their god any better than the elves know theirs. They simply have faith, just as the elves do.
That's not the same though. I had the feeling of elven faith being laughed at all throughout the game. You have Solas who is not against Maker being real, the most sensible elf in your group discounting Sera. You get the reveal that the elven gods were a bunch dbags, warring amongst each other. So most of the myths and stories about them were distorted, they are not presented in a good light.
I'll call it even if we discover that Andraste killed children in her holy crusade.
Makes sense? Not to me either.
I hate the implication of now that the elven gods are fleshed out so they don't make sense as gods anymore, while recordings related to Andraste and Maker still keep some of their mystery. It just gives nourishment to the thought that elven gods were creations too, albeit more powerful kind. I would have preferred if they kept all the faiths in this game unique and mysterious and valid, not possibly related.
The epilogue is ambiguous, but you are not wrong.
The epilogue is ambiguous, but you are not wrong.
Nope. Someone datamined the game files and found an extensive description.
Nope. Someone datamined the game files and found an extensive description.
Really? Is it here on the BSN?
That's the f*cking nail in the coffin if true.
BioWare is a Canadian company staffed mostly by Canadians, including the writers...
And no I did not think the topic of faith was handled very well since the game mostly ignored the faith of my character, a Dalish elf.
wat? you are being sarcastic right? there was a ton of Dalish lore and 2 elven gods present. As an Andrastian I didn't even meet the maker! 
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