43 réponses à ce sujet

[N7 Tigger]

Why won't they obey orders? I'm playing on Nightmare and no matter how many times I order him to a certain spot Solas turns around as soon as he gets there, runs back to where he was and fires spells at demons from six inches away. And dies. And Varric is just as bad.

 

So I order them to Hold Position. I run 10 meters down the road, turn around and they've started following me. Why give me the option to issue orders if they won't follow them? I can't even micro-manage because as soon as I switch to another companion the one I was just using goes back to doing the same stupid sh*t that was getting them killed in the first place.

 

This is not f*cking rocket science. A mage and an archer should not start every fight by running into melee range.

[In Exile]

The AI commands are trash in this game. My best move is to disable AI tactics and set each character to follow themselves. That gives you enough room to give them commands without them being overriden.

They're still tethered to each other so spacing is still an issue.

[Kimberly]

I remember the good old days when you told your followers to hold, they held no matter what. I remember forgetting about them in a far off room in DAO. Probably in Haven. Had to release hold and wait for them to catch up with me. I miss when you could assign tactics such as ranged, aggressive etc & they worked. I wish they would work on this and patch an update.

[AlexisR]

The hold button is incredibly finicky. It has two ways to go wrong.

 

+ First, beware, a new command you issue that causes them to move will override the Hold command. I assume you're playing in tac cam if you're manually positioning team mates? Because in regular mode, AI-controlled companions do more things themselves, so I really have no idea if Hold button is even feasible there. Anyway, things that will override the Hold command even in tac cam:

-entering or finishing combat. As in, every time they reach for their weapons or put them away. So if you're closing rifts, be ready to re-apply Hold before the second wave or everyone will run towards your lead character!

-telling the character to move to somewhere. If they're ranged and content to attack, they might stay there. But they're not on hold anymore. Re-apply the hold button if you move your lead character further away or they might follow!

 

+ Second, beware, they will completely ignore their Hold command if a ranged character has no line of sight to their target. They will try to resolve this by running forward until they do have line of sight. Ending with the lovely sight or your archers trying to hug the enemies.

 

 

Good way to get them to stay put: Enter fight, immediately click Hold. Then move everyone into position. Take care that the ranged characters have line of sight. That usually does the trick and I hardly ever now have problems with melee-happy archers or mages.

 

That said, it's incredibly tedious. I loathe the new hold button. If I put them somewhere I want them to stay put, damn it. grrr

[N7 Tigger]

The fight that is getting me so frustrated is a rift. I persisted and after about 8 attempts got down to the last couple of enemies. So I hit Leaping Shot. This apparently moved me too far from the fight, the last two demons despawned and the Rift is now back at full strength. I'd trade DAI's shiny lipstick for DAO's sound combat mechanics in a heatbeat.

[caradoc2000]

I remember the good old days when you told your followers to hold, they held no matter what.

Captain Kirrahe greatly approves: "Hold the line!"

[teks]

I never had problems with party members moving back to a position after i told them to move. Maybe you should revise the follow/guard orders. Do they have line of sight of the enemy?

[Ryzaki]

believe me OP. I ask this during every mid difficult fight.

 

"Varric...why are you walking UP to a melee enemy as an archer? Varric? Varric please. Varric staph. You didn't do this in DA2 Varric."
 

[Do I really Need One]

It's extremely unpredictable. I've tested this in a very open area of the Western Approach desert. In tactical, I positioned four ranged character, told them to hold, then set special attack. After the attack, one character just went to blank and stood there, two went to basic attack without moving (my preferred result) and the fourth started running into the fray (yeah, it was Solas)

I'm enjoying playing tactical, but, geez, the babysitting is intense. Really need the attack/defend/buff stuff to be completely separated from the positioning. If I try to set up and attack that is out of range or lacks line if sight, just beep at me or something, and I'll deal with it. Dealing with things like that is part of tactical play.

[zeypher]

believe me OP. I ask this during every mid difficult fight.

 

"Varric...why are you walking UP to a melee enemy as an archer? Varric? Varric please. Varric staph. You didn't do this in DA2 Varric."
 

For this disable varric's traps in the tactics and set him to follow himself. This way he will stay at range. Weirdly enough i have found cole as archer staying at range properly.

[Ryzaki]

For this disable varric's traps in the tactics and set him to follow himself. This way he will stay at range. Weirdly enough i have found cole as archer staying at range properly.

 

That's the first thing I did. He still walks up to the enemy.

 

I've given up on him at this point. I just follow him around so I can barrier him as needed. Not even worth the headache.

[N7 Tigger]

For this disable varric's traps in the tactics and set him to follow himself. This way he will stay at range. Weirdly enough i have found cole as archer staying at range properly.

 

I tried setting it to defend himself without much luck so I'll give follow a try.

[Mushashi7]

I presume the 'protect the inquisitor' command overrides the 'Hold ground' command?

I smell Isac Asimov I think.

[zeypher]

DO not put him on defend himself as that will cause him to attack only when he is damaged. Instead follow himself, disable his traps, caltrops, no hook and tackle.

[sinosleep]

The hold button is incredibly finicky. It has two ways to go wrong.

 

+ First, beware, a new command you issue that causes them to move will override the Hold command. I assume you're playing in tac cam if you're manually positioning team mates? Because in regular mode, AI-controlled companions do more things themselves, so I really have no idea if Hold button is even feasible there. Anyway, things that will override the Hold command even in tac cam:

-entering or finishing combat. As in, every time they reach for their weapons or put them away. So if you're closing rifts, be ready to re-apply Hold before the second wave or everyone will run towards your lead character!

-telling the character to move to somewhere. If they're ranged and content to attack, they might stay there. But they're not on hold anymore. Re-apply the hold button if you move your lead character further away or they might follow!

 

+ Second, beware, they will completely ignore their Hold command if a ranged character has no line of sight to their target. They will try to resolve this by running forward until they do have line of sight. Ending with the lovely sight or your archers trying to hug the enemies.

 

 

Good way to get them to stay put: Enter fight, immediately click Hold. Then move everyone into position. Take care that the ranged characters have line of sight. That usually does the trick and I hardly ever now have problems with melee-happy archers or mages.

 

That said, it's incredibly tedious. I loathe the new hold button. If I put them somewhere I want them to stay put, damn it. grrr

 

There's a fair bit of misinformation in this post.

LoS does NOT in any way affect hold commands, and neither do rift shifts. The ONLY battles I have seen during which your team will be considered "out of combat" and as such lose hold commands issued before or during combat are dragon fights during which a dragon flies far enough away to where your team is considered out of combat.

 

This thread has plenty of info, including videos which prove LoS and going in and out of tac cam have no affect on hold commands.

 

http://forum.bioware...ed-folks-alive/

 

Cliffs notes version is this

 

Hold command works just fine as long as you are NOT micro-managing your troops, which if your behaviors and tactics are set correctly you shouldn't have to.

 

If you're going to be doing a ton of micro-managing anyway, then having to reapply the hold command after actions shouldn't be that big a deal for you.

[sinosleep]

I presume the 'protect the inquisitor' command overrides the 'Hold ground' command?

I smell Isac Asimov I think.

 

No it doesn't. In fact no combination of abilities or behaviors will override the hold command. The ONLY things that will override hold commands are

 

1. user error

2. battles that result in the group being considered out of combat, which in my experience ONLY ever happens during dragon fights where the dragon flies really far away.

3. Walking REALLY far away from a group on hold which will cause them to teleport to you. But you've got to walk pretty damned far, like way further than you should ever be in any fight.

 

As far as behaviors go, in my experience the best option is the follow

 

tank -- follow -- self 

dps -- follow -- tank

PC -- ai disabled --

 

Reason being that a tank that is set to follow themselves will attack the closes enemy to them. meaning if you start all your fights by taking control of your tank and running them into a group of enemies, throwing out a taunt and then having them attack one of the enemies they wills stay glued to that enemy and when that one goes down they will automatically attack then next guy.

 

With your dps following the tank they will focus fire whatever the tank is hitting on giving the PC the freedom to attack OTHER targets since the dps won't be following them around for target to target. This is very handy for lone wolf classes like rogues. Your team will handle the group while you go off killing guys one on one.

 

I disable the PC mostly because of the rogue class. On other classes it's not that bad to let the PC auto attack when you take control of someone else but on rogues it's a giant pain cause the AI will waste your stealth on a stupid auto-attack instead of getting a free flanking crit from hidden blades or whatever so I just disable it entirely.

[No-one...\o/]

No it doesn't. In fact no combination of abilities or behaviors will override the hold command. The ONLY things that will override hold commands are
 
1. user error
2. battles that result in the group being considered out of combat, which in my experience ONLY ever happens during dragon fights where the dragon flies really far away.
3. Walking REALLY far away from a group on hold which will cause them to teleport to you. But you've got to walk pretty damned far, like way further than you should ever be in any fight.

You mean the only things you know of.
Unless "jumping on a boulder" is considered "being very far away".
I was trying to do a screenshot with my Inquisitor standing on a rock and my team on the ground. It was insane. Every time I jumped on the rock my team (which was on hold) ran up to me. Sometimes only one of them and the others stayed down below.
In DAO you could put your team on hold and do the olympics without anyone moving. I want that securely working functionallity back

[sinosleep]

You mean the only things you know of.
Unless "jumping on a boulder" is considered "being very far away".
I was trying to do a screenshot with my Inquisitor standing on a rock and my team on the ground. It was insane. Every time I jumped on the rock my team (which was on hold) ran up to me. Sometimes only one of them and the others stayed down below.
In DAO you could put your team on hold and do the olympics without anyone moving. I want that securely working functionallity back

I find that hard to believe considering you can put your party on hold at ground level and climb to the top of that watch tower 2 ladders up, at the fortress in the hinterlands where you get the key to unlock that Carta hideout without them porting to you. I also walked pretty damn far away in the video I posted.

[AlexisR]

There's a fair bit of misinformation in this post.

LoS does NOT in any way affect hold commands, and neither do rift shifts. The ONLY battles I have seen during which your team will be considered "out of combat" and as such lose hold commands issued before or during combat are dragon fights during which a dragon flies far enough away to where your team is considered out of combat.

 

This thread has plenty of info, including videos which prove LoS and going in and out of tac cam have no affect on hold commands.

 

http://forum.bioware...ed-folks-alive/

 

Cliffs notes version is this

 

Hold command works just fine as long as you are NOT micro-managing your troops, which if your behaviors and tactics are set correctly you shouldn't have to.

 

If you're going to be doing a ton of micro-managing anyway, then having to reapply the hold command after actions shouldn't be that big a deal for you.

 

 

Look, I appreciate you trying you correct misinformation. But everything in my post comes from directly witnessing these things many many times in play. If you do not reapply the hold button, then everyone WILL run for your leading character in between rift waves. Seriously, this happens. Like clockwork. What else is this than the game deciding it's the end of the combat?

 

Same thing with Line of Sight. I'm not sure if the hold command is getting already broken due to moving them beforehand - which I'll give you, might be the case!-, but repositioning to get the ranged characters LoS again absolutely fixes the wannabe melee archers problem. Therefore, they stay put. So if LoS doesn't break Hold command directly, it at least prevents the Hold problem from occuring. 

 

 

And honestly, hold command is one of the most important tools of a more micromanage-y play. Anyone who doesn't micromanage doesn't really need hold command. It's a tool for precise positioning. So, yes, this is an unnecessary bother and source of much frustration if you expect hold command to actually make your party stay put, permanently.

[sinosleep]

Look, I appreciate you trying you correct misinformation. But everything in my post comes from directly witnessing these things many many times in play. If you do not reapply the hold button, then everyone WILL run for your leading character in between rift waves. Seriously, this happens. Like clockwork. What else is this than the game deciding it's the end of the combat?

 

Same thing with Line of Sight. I'm not sure if the hold command is getting already broken due to moving them beforehand - which I'll give you, might be the case!-, but repositioning to get the ranged characters LoS again absolutely fixes the wannabe melee archers problem. Therefore, they stay put. So if LoS doesn't break Hold command directly, it at least prevents the Hold problem from occuring. 

 

 

And honestly, hold command is one of the most important tools of a more micromanage-y play. Anyone who doesn't micromanage doesn't really need hold command. It's a tool for precise positioning. So, yes, this is an unnecessary bother and source of much frustration if you expect hold command to actually make your party stay put, permanently.

 

Did you watch the videos? I purposely put Dorian and Sera behind a wall so that there would be a guarantee of a LOS issue and what did they do? They sat there casting at nothing because they didn't have LOS. They didn't move. Mid combat I then put the hold command on my PC and took over my tank moving the battle into LOS for my Dorian and Sera and they again stayed at range except they began firing. Meanwhile my PC stayed where she was placed even though she was set to follow my tank and sat there trying to attack the hyena running circles around her in place instead of chasing after it.

 

Also, you're dead wrong that if you don't want to micro-manage the troops you don't need the hold command. What's been the primary thing most people have been complaining about on these kinds of threads. "I don't want to babysit my guys I just want to fight" Having to continually move ranged characters back out of melee range cause they're running into it is, in fact, babysitting them. By using the hold command at the beginning of fights as I did in the 2nd video you don't have to worry about it. Range will sit at range plucking away while the tank moves from target to target leaving your PC to to whatever they want without you having to babysit the troops AT ALL. Pointing the tank at the enemy is the end of your baby babysitting.

 

I don't consider initial aggro draw and positioning to be micro-manaaging heavy play. I consider giving troops commands like attack my target and cast X spell every 2 seconds micro-managing, and it's that kind of micro-managing that actively BREAKS hold. If all you're doing is repositioning it shouldn't be breaking hold, just like it doesn't in my videos, and just like I've never seen it.

 

 

p.s. I just completed 2 more rifts and again, no down time in between rifts. Sera and Solas stayed put and I wasn't able to quick save (which you need to be out of combat to do) in between waves. So I really don't know how that could possibly be happening in your game. I mean there's difference between hard to reproduce bugs and something like when characters are or aren't considered to be "in combat".

[No-one...\o/]

I find that hard to believe considering you can put your party on hold at ground level and climb to the top of that watch tower 2 ladders up, at the fortress in the hinterlands where you get the key to unlock that Carta hideout without them porting to you. I also walked pretty damn far away in the video I posted.

Most likely it was because ladders are paths, and the boulder wasn't supposed to be jumped on thus has no pathways for the npcs to follow so they ran/ beamed up. Happened in the Fallow Mire btw.
Hold command is crappy compared to the other two games. And the AI in general, as others already said ranged characters go cuddle the enemies, melees sometimes stand around doing nothing.

For fights I tried putting everyone (except tank) on defend themselves and spam the "attack my target" key when I'm fighting, it works sort of, but it's not like DAO, where you could tell them to be cautious, behave as a ranged dps, use certain spells in specific situations, cover a certain ally in a given situation etc.
I'd really love to have the old control over my party members back. You hardly needed to manage your team during gameplay, if you put some time into the "tactics" menu.

[zeypher]

But yes tactics section needed 2 more settings. One for behavious IE Aggressive, passive etc and one for ranged or melee

[sinosleep]

Most likely it was because ladders are paths, and the boulder wasn't supposed to be jumped on thus has no pathways for the npcs to follow so they ran/ beamed up. Happened in the Fallow Mire btw.
Hold command is crappy compared to the other two games. And the AI in general, as others already said ranged characters go cuddle the enemies, melees sometimes stand around doing nothing.

For fights I tried putting everyone (except tank) on defend themselves and spam the "attack my target" key when I'm fighting, it works sort of, but it's not like DAO, where you could tell them to be cautious, behave as a ranged dps, use certain spells in specific situations, cover a certain ally in a given situation etc.
I'd really love to have the old control over my party members back. You hardly needed to manage your team during gameplay, if you put some time into the "tactics" menu.

 

I agree, that the tactics options have been neutered in a way that they shouldn't have been, I just disagree about the hold command. Stopping your ranged troops from running into melee is incredibly easy.

 

Hit the hold command, and then leave them alone. If you set them to the behaviors I mentioned you don't have to worry about micro-managing them because the tank will attack on his own, and they'll automatically target the tank's target and since you aren't micro-managing them the hold command will actually work and that particular problem is resolved.

[No-one...\o/]

I agree, that the tactics options have been neutered in a way that they shouldn't have been, I just disagree about the hold command. Stopping your ranged troops from running into melee is incredibly easy.

Hit the hold command, and then leave them alone. If you set them to the behaviors I mentioned you don't have to worry about micro-managing them because the tank will attack on his own, and they'll automatically target the tank's target and since you aren't micro-managing them the hold command will actually work and that particular problem is resolved.

I was trying to do a puzzle where you had to have your companions in different places in a room. I put them on hold and switched through the characters to position them and someone would always seemingly randomly lose the hold command and run up to the controlled char. I solved it by spamming the hold button but that's just bogus.
Maybe it's bugged, or something else, but in past games you could have the team on hold, tell them to attack something they had no LOS to and switch through charas and nothing would break the hold command.
I want that back.

I'm curious though. Since you never had trouble, on which platform do you play? I'm on PC. Is this another platform-specific problem?