145 réponses à ce sujet

[ChaosWalking]

There's thousands of things Inquisition has that make it a great game, but there's just something missing to it that I can't fall in love with it like I did with Origins

[Brass_Buckles]

That seems an uncharitable interpretation. Everyone’s sensibilities develop (somewhat); plus, the lure of new technology is always strong. Even in this small scale, reach exceeds grasp, and things are done because they can—not so much because they should be. They wanted new players, I’m certain, but moreso it’s simply about making a Dragon Age game.

 

That said, yes, I thought it was a disappointment that the ‘power’ amounted to essentially nothing tangible, neither during gameplay nor in the end game. Perhaps it will be explored further in DLC, perhaps not, but it is definitely something that needs to be addressed in the next installment. Static worlds are simply not as immersive as dynamically responsive ones, no matter how much lore one can dig out.

 

That is why I prefer Dragon Age, not Skyrim.

 

I don't really consider it uncharitable.  I'm not trying to frown at DAI or downtalk it in any way.  As I said, I love the game.  But, they do make every new game with new players in mind.  We who have played from the first or second game get nods and acknowledgement and we get our old playthroughs acknowledged, but there is no denying that they wanted to make a game that anyone could jump right in to.  While I have no doubt that sooner or later, a remastered Dragon Age: Origins will be made, until that time, a lot of newer players will not bother to play a game with such dated graphics and gameplay.  They simply will not see the point in doing so.

 

A lot of players do not care about the lore, etc.  Those of us here on the forums mostly do care.  I suppose the new players who are interested in lore are then encouraged, by this new shiny awesome game that doesn't try to keep them out, to go play the older games, or read books, watch videos of the gameplay, etc.

 

So again, no, I'm not trying to be uncharitable, I'm just being realistic.  The game acknowledges the old fans while really being more geared toward getting new ones.  (Note that this is especially true since quite a few old fans will have left after not enjoying DA2 at all.)

[ChaosWalking]

I'm on my third playthrough and I feel like I've done everything relevant, though in origins every single different choice took me down a different path

[ChaosWalking]

I don't really consider it uncharitable.  I'm not trying to frown at DAI or downtalk it in any way.  As I said, I love the game.  But, they do make every new game with new players in mind.  We who have played from the first or second game get nods and acknowledgement and we get our old playthroughs acknowledged, but there is no denying that they wanted to make a game that anyone could jump right in to.  While I have no doubt that sooner or later, a remastered Dragon Age: Origins will be made, until that time, a lot of newer players will not bother to play a game with such dated graphics and gameplay.  They simply will not see the point in doing so.

 

A lot of players do not care about the lore, etc.  Those of us here on the forums mostly do care.  I suppose the new players who are interested in lore are then encouraged, by this new shiny awesome game that doesn't try to keep them out, to go play the older games, or read books, watch videos of the gameplay, etc.

 

So again, no, I'm not trying to be uncharitable, I'm just being realistic.  The game acknowledges the old fans while really being more geared toward getting new ones.  (Note that this is especially true since quite a few old fans will have left after not enjoying DA2 at all.)

That's what I was thinking. They tried harder to gain new fans to the game than to really give back to the fans of the first games. I didn't like DA2 as much as Origins, but hell, it wasn't that much of a sellout like I sometimes feel Inquisition is

[ChaosWalking]

I'll hand it to Bioware though, The story parts in Inquisitions, like Flemeth's true identity, and Corypheus being the bad guy, and Hawke being able to die, now, that kinda did bring some gasps and huge bursts of excitement from me, because it connected the games and the stories and drove it to new places that made me have those mini adrenaline rushes. I just wish there was more of those moments

[SardaukarElite]

Inquisition is odd in that it takes the hub areas from Origins and makes them bigger, better, prettier and much more open but then also takes the main story out of them. Outside of  a couple of short linking quests (going to Adamant, meeting Hawke's contact) the critical path takes place in its own separate areas.

 

Open sections which aren't linked through like that contain a flimsy, non-pressing excuse to visit like investigating the Red Templars, and very little story reason to stay in them. The general excuse for doing side content is building the Inquisition, but building the Inquisition is only represented by collecting power - a stat which does nothing but unlock new areas that you can collect more power in.

 

I know a lot of people are happy just doing side content, and I can appreciate that, but I need a story motivation and Inquisition's is not adequate for most of its content. In the end, much like the actual main story, nothing feels connected and everything ends up being done because it is there, or is just ignored.

 

I love the open world areas, but I want to have a purpose when I go through them.

[ChaosWalking]

Inquisition is odd in that it takes the hub areas from Origins and makes them bigger, better, prettier and much more open but then also takes the main story out of them. Outside of  a couple of short linking quests (going to Adamant, meeting Hawke's contact) the critical path takes place in its own separate areas.

 

Open sections which aren't linked through like that contain a flimsy, non-pressing excuse to visit like investigating the Red Templars, and very little story reason to stay in them. The general excuse for doing side content is building the Inquisition, but building the Inquisition is only represented by collecting power - a stat which does nothing but unlock new areas that you can collect more power in.

 

I know a lot of people are happy just doing side content, and I can appreciate that, but I need a story motivation and Inquisition's is not adequate for most of its content. In the end, much like the actual main story, nothing feels connected and everything ends up being done because it is there, or is just ignored.

 

I love the open world areas, but I want to have a purpose when I go through them.

I couldn't have worded it better myself though not from lack of trying lol

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

That's what I was thinking. They tried harder to gain new fans to the game than to really give back to the fans of the first games. I didn't like DA2 as much as Origins, but hell, it wasn't that much of a sellout like I sometimes feel Inquisition is

 

You should expect Bioware to continue to "sellout" because they have always stated with every game they've made that their aim is not only to please fans but to gain new players. They are always trying to find ways to introduce new players to their franchises and hopefully in ways that don't alienate fans. Its often a very difficult balancing act. For example, a Skyrim style game is certainly not for everyone so I can see how some people like ChaosWalking are disappointed.

 

Open games by nature don't have very structured storylines because developers don't want to force where players go doing the story. DA:I is heavily focused on exploration and discovering random/hidden dungeons that actually have a mini story all to their own is a large part of the charm of these types of games. Case in point, Valammar (in the Hinterlands) and the whole set of minor quests that lead up to discovering its location. It has a weak link to the main story through red lyrium smuggling but I found the whole quest chain as very rewarding in an exploration sense. I never expected what seemed like a minor random quest chain to lead to not one but two hidden areas (the merc HQ and Valammar). Admittedly, it has a very weak link to the main story but I love the hidden quest chains like this in DA: I. It gives me a strong sense of reward for my effort in exploration.

[Brass_Buckles]

That's what I was thinking. They tried harder to gain new fans to the game than to really give back to the fans of the first games. I didn't like DA2 as much as Origins, but hell, it wasn't that much of a sellout like I sometimes feel Inquisition is

 

I don't think it's really being a "sellout," since they pretty much did the same thing with Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3.  It's just part of running a game series.  It takes years to make these games, and even if they don't anger/annoy fans and lose them that way (and they always do, no matter what else they do--someone's not going to like something about their game), they will lose fans to things like real-life situations.  Yes, the average gamer is now 30+ and around half of us are ladies, which means we're finding leisure time to play games somewhere.  But, people have kids, they have job changes, they move, they decide gaming is too expensive, etc.  So, new fans have to be brought in to replace those of us who stop playing, or who stop playing as much and maybe pass by these games in favor of something more casual or something that fits our personal tastes better (though for me, if I gave up other games, BioWare would definitely be the primary source of the games I DID keep buying).

 

I also think it's worth noting that not a whole lot of quality Western (or even Japanese) RPGs are being made right now.  You're pretty much stuck with, for story-based Western RPGs, either BioWare or CDProjekt.  And I prefer BioWare.  There are other companies, and a few years back when DA:O came out, RPGs were super-popular.  I don't know what happened to that popularity, because you do not see it now.

 

Either way, because of the decline of popularity of the genre, along with the other reasons I mentioned above, new players are of utmost importance.  If they don't make money, they can't keep making games.  It's not selling out, it's staying afloat.

[ChaosWalking]

I don't think it's really being a "sellout," since they pretty much did the same thing with Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3.  It's just part of running a game series.  It takes years to make these games, and even if they don't anger/annoy fans and lose them that way (and they always do, no matter what else they do--someone's not going to like something about their game), they will lose fans to things like real-life situations.  Yes, the average gamer is now 30+ and around half of us are ladies, which means we're finding leisure time to play games somewhere.  But, people have kids, they have job changes, they move, they decide gaming is too expensive, etc.  So, new fans have to be brought in to replace those of us who stop playing, or who stop playing as much and maybe pass by these games in favor of something more casual or something that fits our personal tastes better (though for me, if I gave up other games, BioWare would definitely be the primary source of the games I DID keep buying).

 

I also think it's worth noting that not a whole lot of quality Western (or even Japanese) RPGs are being made right now.  You're pretty much stuck with, for story-based Western RPGs, either BioWare or CDProjekt.  And I prefer BioWare.  There are other companies, and a few years back when DA:O came out, RPGs were super-popular.  I don't know what happened to that popularity, because you do not see it now.

 

Either way, because of the decline of popularity of the genre, along with the other reasons I mentioned above, new players are of utmost importance.  If they don't make money, they can't keep making games.  It's not selling out, it's staying afloat.

I guess I might be a little selfish in that aspect. Mass Effect 2 and 3 had a much better correlation than Origins and Inquisition though in my opinion. I'm all about these western rpg's that give you story manipulation to put yourself in the game. On the topic, know any other games besides Witcher and ME that are like that? I'd really like to experience more

[Brass_Buckles]

I guess I might be a little selfish in that aspect. Mass Effect 2 and 3 had a much better correlation than Origins and Inquisition though in my opinion. I'm all about these western rpg's that give you story manipulation to put yourself in the game. On the topic, know any other games besides Witcher and ME that are like that? I'd really like to experience more

 

There are a handful out there, but as I understand, most are not high quality.  There are a lot of first person/no party type action RPGs, like Dark Souls etc., but from what I hear those are all about being difficult and not about making choices or actually playing a role (those are pretty high-end games, though).  And, of course, there are the Elder Scrolls games, but, well... those aren't for everyone either.

 

There's Bound by Flame, but I've heard mixed reviews of that one from BioWare fans, and it is also very short.

 

There's the Game of Thrones RPG, but I hear it's terribly glitchy and starts out pretty slow, so it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

 

Basically, the RPG genre has become a ghost town, and probably a lot of that is the shift to MMOs.  In order for RPGs to make a comeback to the way they were a few years back, there are going to need to be some really stellar stories told, within games that let you really play a role instead of follow a set path.  They'll also need to be pretty because people are shallow.  DA:I is, I think, a step in the right direction, but I agree with Sardauker in that it would have felt more relevant to tie the areas together (which is what I've been trying to say, but Sardauker said it in better words).  That's the one major improvement--and maybe a tougher/better boss fight?--that I think would have really "made" DA:I.  There were some areas I didn't even bother visiting until right before the end game, for just that reason (and for not knowing "when" I should go there).

[Shari'El]

I agree on some points, I think the one I agree with most is the part about the regions being connected to the story (they had the Venatori, they had the Red Templars, awesome. But what the hell with the Freemen of the Dales?).

 

Although I did feel a compulsion exploring Emerald Graves and Exalted Plains, (I'm not sure if it comes from being a completion-ist, or an exploration-ist since I didn't like Skyrim [though I did like Oblivion]) but I still asked myself "why am I doing this?" on a couple of things. When all you do accumulates to a number on the screen it's a bit of let down (they do feel meaningful at the beginning, it did feel like a good representation of how many men we have in our ranks, after a while it got to a three digit number that felt quite meaningless), I personally felt that when it came to agents it felt more rewarding.

 

DAI does somethings better than DAO (gameplay for example, I felt more connected to the characters) while DAO is better on others.

After DA2 I didn't expect DAI to be anything like DAO and I think that's a part of why I was able to really enjoyed DAI. It felt so much more epic than DAO, I felt like my character is indeed part of something bigger, and the same time I felt the story was really short (though DAO wasn't any longer, just felt longer because the areas were more relevant to the story).

 

This is why I'm hoping the DLC will have meaningful content, I don't want more exploring.

[ChaosWalking]

There are a handful out there, but as I understand, most are not high quality.  There are a lot of first person/no party type action RPGs, like Dark Souls etc., but from what I hear those are all about being difficult and not about making choices or actually playing a role (those are pretty high-end games, though).  And, of course, there are the Elder Scrolls games, but, well... those aren't for everyone either.

 

There's Bound by Flame, but I've heard mixed reviews of that one from BioWare fans, and it is also very short.

 

There's the Game of Thrones RPG, but I hear it's terribly glitchy and starts out pretty slow, so it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

 

Basically, the RPG genre has become a ghost town, and probably a lot of that is the shift to MMOs.  In order for RPGs to make a comeback to the way they were a few years back, there are going to need to be some really stellar stories told, within games that let you really play a role instead of follow a set path.  They'll also need to be pretty because people are shallow.  DA:I is, I think, a step in the right direction, but I agree with Sardauker in that it would have felt more relevant to tie the areas together (which is what I've been trying to say, but Sardauker said it in better words).  That's the one major improvement--and maybe a tougher/better boss fight?--that I think would have really "made" DA:I.  There were some areas I didn't even bother visiting until right before the end game, for just that reason (and for not knowing "when" I should go there).

I was so excited for bound by flame but really it was kind of crappy I mean, it holds you in till the end mostly but after that you don't really wanna look at it again.

[ChaosWalking]

I agree on some points, I think the one I agree with most is the part about the regions being connected to the story (they had the Venatori, they had the Red Templars, awesome. But what the hell with the Freemen of the Dales?).

 

Although I did feel a compulsion exploring Emerald Graves and Exalted Plains, (I'm not sure if it comes from being a completion-ist, or an exploration-ist since I didn't like Skyrim [though I did like Oblivion]) but I still asked myself "why am I doing this?" on a couple of things. When all you do accumulates to a number on the screen it's a bit of let down (they do feel meaningful at the beginning, it did feel like a good representation of how many men we have in our ranks, after a while it got to a three digit number that felt quite meaningless), I personally felt that when it came to agents it felt more rewarding.

 

DAI does somethings better than DAO (gameplay for example, I felt more connected to the characters) while DAO is better on others.

After DA2 I didn't expect DAI to be anything like DAO and I think that's a part of why I was able to really enjoyed DAI. It felt so much more epic than DAO, I felt like my character is indeed part of something bigger, and the same time I felt the story was really short (though DAO wasn't any longer, just felt longer because the areas were more relevant to the story).

 

This is why I'm hoping the DLC will have meaningful content, I don't want more exploring.

It needs more story content, it really just does. I like character interaction better though wtf with the male romance options? Cmon, I mean, I did like me some Cassandra but is that all I really get? Maybe like one more female to the game would have been nice. Not Vivienne though I hate her face. Gameplay was def better though, I agree. One thing that felt a little empty was the introduction selection of Inquisition. Race to race, class to class didn't really seem to differ for me. Minor differences. In Origins there was a whole separate introduction arc and damn did I love a new beginning each time.

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

I love the Emerald Graves and all the lore you learn there but hey, I'm that codex guy who hunts down and reads all the codex entries......because I must know MOAR!

[Brass_Buckles]

It needs more story content, it really just does. I like character interaction better though wtf with the male romance options? Cmon, I mean, I did like me some Cassandra but is that all I really get? Maybe like one more female to the game would have been nice. Not Vivienne though I hate her face. Gameplay was def better though, I agree. One thing that felt a little empty was the introduction selection of Inquisition. Race to race, class to class didn't really seem to differ for me. Minor differences. In Origins there was a whole separate introduction arc and damn did I love a new beginning each time.

 

Well, having beaten the game, you know what ladies got, and two of our options were not originally going to be in the game.  Blackwall?  Not exactly a winner.  Iron Bull?  ... No thanks.  And I didn't care for Cullen, so that left me with... Solas. You know how that ended.  So, ladies didn't get the prize for romances, either.

[Brass_Buckles]

I love the Emerald Graves and all the lore you learn there but hey, I'm that codex guy who hunts down and reads all the codex entries......because I must know MOAR!

 

I love the lore stuff.  I didn't read the codexes as much in this game as I have in others, and I kinda feel bad for that--I read some, but others it was just "I'll have to read that later, I've been playing this game for 8 hours straight already."

[AtreiyaN7]

And the outcome in Origins was something other than defeating the Archdemon? You could certainly make choices that added a very different flavor to the epilogue - things like choosing Harrowmont over Bhelen (or vice versa), or choosing who makes the ultimate sacrifice, but that's really as far as it went. What they could have done with DA:I was to put more into tailoring epilogues like they did in DA:O, not to mention just having more story-related content (that being said, I thought the story-related quests that were in the game were quite good, and I just finished Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts again tonight).

 

As far as a sense of urgency in DA:O goes, I have to say that I never had any real sense of urgency to deal with the Blight. I may have had a sense of urgency in wanting to marry Alistair, but I think that's an entirely different subject. What actually happened was me seeing the map change as the darkspawn tide supposedly advanced. I then said a quick goodbye to Lothering after it was overrun and tootled along, while distinctly not feeling any particular urgency over the fate of the village or being worried about having darkspawn at my heels, etc.

 

EDIT: Speaking Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts, I actually got two different variations - one involved me having to fight Florianne because I flubbed things a bit, and the other involved me publicly exposing her again (which is what I was planning on doing in the first place). I reloaded and redid a whole section because I really wasn't ready for the fight (primarily because I took undergeared Dorian along instead of my Barrier master, aka Solas).

[ChaosWalking]

And the outcome in Origins was something other than defeating the Archdemon? You could certainly make choices that added a very different flavor to the epilogue - things like choosing Harrowmont over Bhelen (or vice versa), or choosing who makes the ultimate sacrifice, but that's really as far as it went. What they could have done with DA:I was to put more into tailoring epilogues like they did in DA:O, not to mention just having more story-related content (that being said, I thought the story-related quests that were in the game were quite good, and I just finished Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts again tonight).

 

As far as a sense of urgency in DA:O goes, I have to say that I never had any real sense of urgency to deal with the Blight. I may have had a sense of urgency in wanting to marry Alistair, but I think that's an entirely different subject. What actually happened was me seeing the map change as the darkspawn tide supposedly advanced. I then said a quick goodbye to Lothering after it was overrun and tootled along, while distinctly not feeling any particular urgency over the fate of the village or being worried about having darkspawn at my heels, etc.

Yes but everything you did was more or less to propel the game forward to the face off with the darkspawn army where in Inquisition you can complete six areas and not have advanced one inch into the story

[ChaosWalking]

Well, having beaten the game, you know what ladies got, and two of our options were not originally going to be in the game.  Blackwall?  Not exactly a winner.  Iron Bull?  ... No thanks.  And I didn't care for Cullen, so that left me with... Solas. You know how that ended.  So, ladies didn't get the prize for romances, either.

Lol like, the Morrigan romance was just too cute, seeing her softer side, seeing her stumble, you know. I guess the same goes with Cassandra but she's just so butch, like, might as well romance Dorian

[Wissenschaft 2.0]

But Cass is so cute.............can  I lick her scar? What? Too much information?

 

Ok, I'll show myself out.

[Master Warder Z_]

But Cass is so cute.............can I lick her scar?.

Thought the same thing myself.

[AlexiaRevan]

It does feel watered down . 

 

There is no emotions in the game . Wich kinda suck . RPG games always let ya feel something in the end (or midway) , either anger..happiness...sadness....pissed off feeling . Something!!! 

 

But here ? nothing . I mean , only the companions bring some fun/irritation/anger/sadness when ya do their personal quest . But the main quest doesn't . 

 

While I love the game , and no I'm not gonna compare it to DAO since...DAO sucked for me . I loved DA2...but it has it flaws.....

 

I personally still waiting when they gonna stop hovering over graphism . Seriously , yes it is gorgeous , it is beautiful , it is amazing and stunning! but its harming what true RPG should be . 

 

Here its like they build all these gorgeous map...and when the time came for them to fill them with main story and sidequest...they got tired...so they just put some side quest and codex...and went to sleep . 

 

The last time..I felt Bioware gave me a game that was 'finished'..that didnt need any mod to add to it...or any fix to apply..I think it was Kotor 1 . That game was finished . Even though ya can add mods...I didnt feel like it needed mods . While I modded Kotor 2 like hell..because it was filled with alot of unfinished stuff...

 

And I'm afraid...DAI is like Kotor 2....it need alot to fill it...even though Bioware release it thinking they are done . 

[ChaosWalking]

It does feel watered down . 

 

There is no emotions in the game . Wich kinda suck . RPG games always let ya feel something in the end (or midway) , either anger..happiness...sadness....pissed off feeling . Something!!! 

 

But here ? nothing . I mean , only the companions bring some fun/irritation/anger/sadness when ya do their personal quest . But the main quest doesn't . 

 

While I love the game , and no I'm not gonna compare it to DAO since...DAO sucked for me . I loved DA2...but it has it flaws.....

 

I personally still waiting when they gonna stop hovering over graphism . Seriously , yes it is gorgeous , it is beautiful , it is amazing and stunning! but its harming what true RPG should be . 

 

Here its like they build all these gorgeous map...and when the time came for them to fill them with main story and sidequest...they got tired...so they just put some side quest and codex...and went to sleep . 

 

The last time..I felt Bioware gave me a game that was 'finished'..that didnt need any mod to add to it...or any fix to apply..I think it was Kotor 1 . That game was finished . Even though ya can add mods...I didnt feel like it needed mods . While I modded Kotor 2 like hell..because it was filled with alot of unfinished stuff...

 

And I'm afraid...DAI is like Kotor 2....it need alot to fill it...even though Bioware release it thinking they are done . 

I just want to say I read your entire thing in Sera's voice lol. But exactly. How can you achieve immersion when the main plot line just doesn't give you enough feels. Like in Origins when Loghain betrayed me, I was pisseddd off or when Zevran could defect back to the crows, like I was enraged. 

[AlexiaRevan]

I just want to say I read your entire thing in Sera's voice lol. But exactly. How can you achieve immersion when the main plot line just doesn't give you enough feels. Like in Origins when Loghain betrayed me, I was pisseddd off or when Zevran could defect back to the crows, like I was enraged. 

Well feel doesnt necessarly mean angst and betrayer . Cose too much sob story can be boring too . 

 

But it doesn't hold the same wonder , the same edge and stress older games gave us . 

 

A game of this size should have a story of its size . Instead they went Skyrim route 'Go explore'.....

 

While I can respect the 'Go Explore'...I don't play RPG to go explore......I play them for their story . It is what make me talk about the game . 

 

When I played Neverwinter Night 1 , I ranted for a year over the ending . When I played Planescape Torment I couldn't stop asking my friend what would be their answer to Raven riddle . 

 

When I played Icewind Dale 2 , I remember those triplet you meet and the castle of Ice they made . Or that one...I dont remember wich game it was...but you find this dwarf camp and elf who killed each others after receiving a deceiving letter . And everyone was a ghost because the Elf mage released a bomb that killed everyone . 

 

But yeah , this game lack emotions badly . Without those...it really feel like Skyrim . A better ones true...but still..same 'Go explore' crap....