145 réponses à ce sujet

[simtam]

The main reason I hate Skyrim is because I've tried playing it five times now and I still don't know what the frak the main story is even about lol

It's a journey fantasy (also know as "quest"), for the most part. And you could say that the challenge of that game is in choosing the direction of your journey so that you accomplish something. Although I would not call it a very demanding challenge, if you'd ask me.

 

I had the pleasure to experience all three Dragon Age games during only the past couple of months, so I enjoyed the variety provided by them, very likely more than if I were to play through a single DA:O-theme/mood game three times longer. Think of the future generations of players! Inflicting more of the same on them is not the best option. (that said, probably there are some lessons to be learnt from DA:I, cause I also avoided most of the Orlais unlockable areas, until the very end of game, and that was just out of curiosity for the landscape scenery).

[Colonelkillabee]

The main reason I hate Skyrim is because I've tried playing it five times now and I still don't know what the frak the main story is even about lol

Lol what? Sorry, but I laughed.

 

As for the other people talking about Skyrim, why do people think it's either or? I play and geek over dragon age and skyrim both. Why people seem to need to compare games that are nothing alike, I'll never know.

[Arisugawa]

 

Again, I can see the argument of gathering people; that was actually the majority of the Warden's plot in DA:O.  You could skip some areas, or abandon them, but gathering together those forces really made a difference to the state of the battle in the ending.  In the case of DA:I, you don't see that so much.  Where are my mage forces in the final battle?  Celene's Orlesian army?  My Dalish allies?  None of them are there.  They were there in DA:O, so gathering them felt more relevant.

 

The first few times I played Origins, I had no idea you could call allies in for support.

 

My little group of four took on everything in the Battle of Denerim by themselves.

 

Once I discovered that this was possible, I stopped doing it once I saw that calling them in basically resulted in those allies getting slaughtered. So I pretty much continue to do everything with just my band of four, regardless of what difficulty I am playing on.

 

This is my opinion and my opinion only, but I think how allies were implemented in Origins and how they appear during the Battle of Denerim is absurdly overrated. The fact is, they don't affect the final battle at all.

 

They aren't needed. They are barely effective. You can win the battle without them and the narrative doesn't change in the slightest.

[Shark17676]

Four words: Where. The. Druffalo. Roam.

 

Because that was an insanely long quest chain that took hours to complete and had to be done if you wanted the best loot in the game.

 

Oh, wait...

[Shark17676]

Well, having beaten the game, you know what ladies got, and two of our options were not originally going to be in the game.  Blackwall?  Not exactly a winner.  Iron Bull?  ... No thanks.  And I didn't care for Cullen, so that left me with... Solas. You know how that ended.  So, ladies didn't get the prize for romances, either.

 

You're entitled to your opinions, sure -- but at the same time, you don't speak for all ladies.

 

I've seen a ton of ladies who were quite satisfied with their choices in DAI.  I personally know a couple who appreciated the tragedy of a Blackwall or Solas romance, saying the drama involved there only served to enrich the story.

[dragonflight288]

The first few times I played Origins, I had no idea you could call allies in for support.

 

My little group of four took on everything in the Battle of Denerim by themselves.

 

Once I discovered that this was possible, I stopped doing it once I saw that calling them in basically resulted in those allies getting slaughtered. So I pretty much continue to do everything with just my band of four, regardless of what difficulty I am playing on.

 

This is my opinion and my opinion only, but I think how allies were implemented in Origins and how they appear during the Battle of Denerim is absurdly overrated. The fact is, they don't affect the final battle at all.

 

They aren't needed. They are barely effective. You can win the battle without them and the narrative doesn't change in the slightest.

 

Did you provide them with resources in camp before the end of the game? They are better if you equip them. 

[Arisugawa]

Did you provide them with resources in camp before the end of the game? They are better if you equip them. 

 

Yes. Repeatedly. To the point of saving gems acquired early in the game and holding them despite them eating up my inventory so that the dwarves could have them after the Orzammar chapter.

 

Buying absurd amounts of Elfroot and Deep Mushrooms for the elves.

 

Giving every rune that wasn't attached to a weapon, saving none for possible fights later.

 

Bleeding my treasury dry once I was convinced I had nothing left to buy prior to the final battle.

 

Never seemed to make a difference.

[AtreiyaN7]

Yes but everything you did was more or less to propel the game forward to the face off with the darkspawn army where in Inquisition you can complete six areas and not have advanced one inch into the story

Because DA:O was small and limited, perhaps. I'm not really seeing that as a plus when the world itself is more immersive in DA:I. As for you not liking the fact that all the areas don't need to be completed to move the story forward, maybe you'll recall how many people have repeatedly complained about having to do hubs in a specific order in past games? Because I sure remember seeing that particular complaint crop up repeatedly. In DA:I, people can largely do what they want and however much they feel like doing before proceeding with the main quests. They're no longer chained like a dog on a leash anymore due to engine limitations, etc.

And I don't recall any Chantry board-related quests in DA:O propelling the game forward for that matter, despite your claim that everything you did was for the sake of propelling the game forward. What about the haunted orphanage in Denerim? That actually didn't contribute anything to the main story. It was an entertaining side quest/surprise in the way that discovering Chateau D'Onterre was. At any rate, while you might be disappointed with the game, every day I've spent with DA:I has been more rewarding than repeatedly slogging through the Deep Roads in DA:O ever was.

I played DA:O at least 4-6 times, and I loved it a lot - I also realized it had certain limitations and wasn't perfect despite the whole spiritual successor to BG thing. Great game, lots of fun, but killing the Archdemon was approximately as exciting as killing Corypheus was - possibly less exciting, given the limitations of DA:O (and this is from someone who agrees that the actual final fight with Cory could have been made more exciting).

EDIT: Just to add one last thing, while I have actually said that Skyrim lacked urgency in the past (and continue to feel that way), it's largely because the characters in Skyrim are a giant bore-fest (with the two exceptions that I have previously cited) and because the main quests were generally as dull as dishwater, a problem that DA:I doesn't have because I find most of the companions and NPCs in DA:I to be compelling and interesting, along with the main quests actually being good on the whole. Again, wish they'd had more story-related content in DA:I, as that certainly would have made things even better.

[dragonflight288]

Yes. Repeatedly. To the point of saving gems acquired early in the game and holding them despite them eating up my inventory so that the dwarves could have them after the Orzammar chapter.

 

Buying absurd amounts of Elfroot and Deep Mushrooms for the elves.

 

Giving every rune that wasn't attached to a weapon, saving none for possible fights later.

 

Bleeding my treasury dry once I was convinced I had nothing left to buy prior to the final battle.

 

Never seemed to make a difference.

 

Hmm. Weird I do very well with my soldiers when I summon them. I just use them at certain points. For example, I start off defending the alienage by myself, using a few area of effect spells on the horde beyond the gate while me and my companions hold the line. Then as the darkspawn start regrouping, I summon the dwarves who are effective close range fighters. I usually lose only 3-5 of them in that fight. 

[Hazegurl]

In DAO, it's a just a matter of knowing when to call them and calling the right force. For example, I call the elven archers to shoot down the enemies standing behind the barricades. Calling a melee force would just get them and yourself slaughtered. At least it has for me. So I do think the army picker was quite good and made you think about the forces needed. It sucked that you could only call one force at a time and were stuck with that force until they all died so if you made a mistake you couldn't correct it. I also would have liked a chance to use the few mages I had as healers and crowd control support over pew pews while using a melee or archer force in that role.

 

It would have been nice if DAI had taken the army picker from DAO and improved on it. 

[Arisugawa]

In DAO, it's a just a matter of knowing when to call them and calling the right force. For example, I call the elven archers to shoot down the enemies standing behind the barricades. Calling a melee force would just get them and yourself slaughtered. At least it has for me. So I do think the army picker was quite good and made you think about the forces needed. It sucked that you could only call one force at a time and were stuck with that force until they all died so if you made a mistake you couldn't correct it. I also would have liked a chance to use the few mages I had as healers and crowd control support over pew pews while using a melee or archer force in that role.

 

It would have been nice if DAI had taken the army picker from DAO and improved on it. 

 

But again, the armies aren't necessary and don't add anything to the narrative except in the mind of the player. I'm not trying to discount that on a personal level, mind you. I am saying that it is possible to play the Battle of Denerim without any support, and the end result of the battle and the story of the Fifth Blight doesn't change.

[Colonelkillabee]

You're entitled to your opinions, sure -- but at the same time, you don't speak for all ladies.

 

I've seen a ton of ladies who were quite satisfied with their choices in DAI.  I personally know a couple who appreciated the tragedy of a Blackwall or Solas romance, saying the drama involved there only served to enrich the story.

How do people not like Blackwall? I'm so straight, a black hole couldn't bend me, and even I want to **** this guy, lol. Just kidding.

 

No but seriously, I want his babies. lol. LOL.

 

Anyway, Blackwall is the ****** man, and that tragedy makes for some great drama. I was talking with a friend here, begging her to try this romance out because I knew the feels would be epic after finding out what he really was, and it turns out, I was right. Blackwall's story is amazing, and I am really surprised  he doesn't get more love. People love tragic stories with big burly men. Twilight must have poisoned our youth, lol. Young girls nowadays don't know a real man when they see one.

[Hazegurl]

But again, the armies aren't necessary and don't add anything to the narrative except in the mind of the player. I'm not trying to discount that on a personal level, mind you. I am saying that it is possible to play the Battle of Denerim without any support, and the end result of the battle and the story of the Fifth Blight doesn't change.

But the story of the 5th Blight does change. The HoF can die or take Morrigan's bargain and continue their role in Thedas, GWs begin to question how the HoF survived, You can choose your role whether it's marry Alistair or Anora, marry them to each other, et al so the political structure of Fereldan changes for the long run, we hear of the changes in Orzamarr when either Behlen or Harrowmont is chosen. DAO gave us a lot of choices that stuck it's just that not all of them did which is understandable. Basically, gathering those forces did matter whether you use them or not in your gameplay.

 

If you mean nothing changes as in the battle is always won no matter what. Then I don't see that as a problem as the story is all about battling the 5th Blight. I think BW could have done a better job with the forces and the army picker though. If anything I would have been happy with cut scenes showing what the different forces are doing together like they did in ME3.

[Arisugawa]

But the story of the 5th Blight does change. The HoF can die or take Morrigan's bargain and continue their role in Thedas, GWs begin to question how the HoF survived, You can choose your role whether it's marry Alistair or Anora, marry them to each other, et al so the political structure of Fereldan changes for the long run, we hear of the changes in Orzamarr when either Behlen or Harrowmont is chosen. DAO gave us a lot of choices that stuck it's just that not all of them did which is understandable. Basically, gathering those forces did matter whether you use them or not in your gameplay.

 

If you mean nothing changes as in the battle is always won no matter what. Then I don't see that as a problem as the story is all about battling the 5th Blight. I think BW could have done a better job with the forces and the army picker though. If anything I would have been happy with cut scenes showing what the different forces are doing together like they did in ME3.

 

I mean that the story does not change based on what allies you call upon, or even if you call upon them at all. Nor is the success of the Battle of Denerim dependent on them.

 

It's a mechanic that's importance is overstated and overemphasized. You can excise the ability to call allies during the combat, and nothing about the narrative or the success of the Battle is altered.

[simtam]

As you say, it adds nothing except in the mind of the player - however, it's the mind of the player that judges the game after all. I, for one, avoided some savegame-reloading on my approach to Fort Drakon, and after going through Orzammar Deep Roads out of recommended order I was grateful for any time-saving help. Ditto for the Landsmeet session (where I suppose the afore-gathered allies and favors paid off even better, as I ran into buggy gamestate after duel with Loghain and so I would have to repeat the whole tedious Landsmeet battle if I had not have enough political support to be able to skip it). That's quite a lot of subtle influence which I remember vividly; as for DA:I, I can tell only a rather dull story about farming increasing amounts of so-called power points to unlock the main plotline quests.

[Linkenski]

While I don't regard Inquisition as a failure, I wholeheartedly agree that Origins and DA2 did a better job of making everything seem story driven. In DAI while the side quests are often better contextualized for what the plot is about, the game does a poor job of trying to have narrative as a center focus. It's too much sandbox and whatever than it's about adding to the plot.

I feel like either EA or the gameplay minded devs at Bioware overshadowed the writers in this game. Dragon Age can use this sandbox formula effectively but not at so much expense of having a constant focus on the story. I'd love to have a game where both sandbox and story worked better in conjunction, so we'd have twice the main plot and a third less side content for example, or just make certain side quests more cinematic and more in depth.

Too many things in Inquisition were too superficial even the main plot but I don't think it's the writers' fault this time.

[Hazegurl]

I mean that the story does not change based on what allies you call upon, or even if you call upon them at all. Nor is the success of the Battle of Denerim dependent on them.

 

It's a mechanic that's importance is overstated and overemphasized. You can excise the ability to call allies during the combat, and nothing about the narrative or the success of the Battle is altered.

DAI does the same thing as DAO, in that you can see minor skirmishes of the bare bones of your forces fighting (when you first enter the fight in Denerim). However, DAO took it a step further in giving the player the power to call any of the forces whenever needed whereas DAI never goes beyond the former.

 

IMO, it wouldn't have hurt for DAI to include the army picker. At least it gives the illusion of the usefulness of gathering all that influence, power, and allies.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I feel I matter more in DA:I than in the others because I got to have Alexius brought to the chopping block and cut off his head in front of all those refugees. People love a good beheading. Some of my party approved and some disapproved, but you know how it is. I can sit in judgement. I matter. I am the Herald of Andraste.

 

I wasn't able to do this in DA:O. Or in DA2.

[Bob Walker]

Parodyng the title of the thread, the OP's firstborn child could say: "Why my father Inquisition failed me as a parent".

[veeia]

"Why my parents reaction to Inquisition is the reason I am in therapy"

[Dominari]

The main bulk of the game has NOTHING to do with stopping Corypheus and his threat.

 That is so true. 

 

Now, take that concept a step further.  Closing the breech and killing Coryfish ... is a side quest!

Ta DA! 

The bulk of the story is everything that happens around you while you are distracted by darkspawn-boy.  It's not the destination; it's the journey.

[Arisugawa]

DAI does the same thing as DAO, in that you can see minor skirmishes of the bare bones of your forces fighting (when you first enter the fight in Denerim). However, DAO took it a step further in giving the player the power to call any of the forces whenever needed whereas DAI never goes beyond the former.

 

IMO, it wouldn't have hurt for DAI to include the army picker. At least it gives the illusion of the usefulness of gathering all that influence, power, and allies.

 

And I'd be fine with that. There's nothing wrong with giving the player that option.

 

But I don't feel summoning allies during the Battle of Denerim is a particular facet of Origins worthy of the praise die-hard fans of Origins give it, nor do I think it somehow contributes to elevating Origins to some unreachable pillar. It's an option, and one that can be conveniently ignored without fear of consequence or loss of reward.

 

If something similar was available in Inquisition, I'd be fine with it. I don't know that I would use it any more than I do in Origins.

[Colonelkillabee]

It certainly helped me in my game to summon soldiers, even if on harder difficulties they only served really as a distraction. That was enough for me and it felt really badass. Like I was actually commanding men.