232 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

There's also no convincing description of precisely why the matter is a secular one as opposed to a religious one. In fact, if any one solution is to be imposed, regardless of what it actually is, Chantry support and participation will be necessary, rather than excluded, because it is the only institution that actually covers all Thedas. It is both a religious organization and a secular one of immense power. Condemning it for failing to adhere to some anachronistic western Enlightenment concept of separate religious authorities badly misses the point.

[Cypher0020]

I've actually went with templars twice. My mage is going with the mages, but baaaarely.....esepcially when she sees what a moron Fiona is with signing off everyone to Tevinter.

 

Especially since she's a qunari. Epic facepalm. 

[Hellion Rex]

Team Templar this go around cause the amount of stupid on the mage plotline (minus Dorian and Felix) was absolutely mind boggling.

[Ryzaki]

Team Templar this go around cause the amount of stupid on the mage plotline (minus Dorian and Felix) was absolutely mind boggling.

 

Yes. Join us with Barras the sexy

 

You know the mage plotline wouldn't be so bad if I could judge Fiona. That one addition would make it loads better for me.

[Cypher0020]

I agree with both above posts. The mage plotline makes aboslutely no sense.... time traveling magic, that goes into Who territory... taking control of the templars makes much more sense, plus that went to taking out seekers......plus it fits better with the lyrium.....

 

geez, my mage may go templar again

[Vilio1]

Mages. The circle system was rotten from the core, I was glad to get rid of it.

[Dean_the_Young]

And Templars do absolutely nothing when some of their group leaves to kill both mages and non-mages.

 

Cool beans- but that doesn't really address the issue the mages face. Templar mutineers really don't negate the political or ideological problems of the Magi not taking responsibility for mages.The Templars didn't have a force in the region to enforce compliance. The Mages holed up in Redcliffe were, well, in Recliffe. Right down the road.

 

The premise of a mage independence movement that claims that mages can be trusted to police themselves really shouldn't be relying on rogue Templars to contain power-mad mages.
 

[Dean_the_Young]

By that logic, the best Divine cass ending is temporary. In fact, by your logic, Hardened Divine Leliana is the best Leliana ending as there are no indications that her reforms will be undone and unity is completely maintained.

 

When things are caveated with near-term time frames, they can only be assumed to hold true for the near term. Ain't grammar grand? That doesn't mean that the Divines are subsequently deposed and all their reforms rolled back immediately, though- just that the garnish (or honeymoon period) ends and things get tougher and nastier and perhaps a fair bit bloodier.

 

All three Divine scenarios are probably only reliable for a medium-term time frame at best. Call it years, maybe a decade, before the future clouds over- that would be similar to what DAO (and, to a much lesser extent with the Viscount ending, DA2) did. At that point, any and all divineswill only be as successful as Bioware wants them to be- and given that the Divines are clearly meant to be interchangeable (note the same name), there's going to be some sort of narrative equivalence to them by the time they become relevant again.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

When things are caveated with near-term time frames, they can only be assumed to hold true for the near term. Ain't grammar grand? That doesn't mean that the Divines are subsequently deposed and all their reforms rolled back immediately, though- just that the garnish (or honeymoon period) ends and things get tougher and nastier and perhaps a fair bit bloodier.

 

All three Divine scenarios are probably only reliable for a medium-term time frame at best. Call it years, maybe a decade, before the future clouds over- that would be similar to what DAO (and, to a much lesser extent with the Viscount ending, DA2) did. At that point, any and all divineswill only be as successful as Bioware wants them to be- and given that the Divines are clearly meant to be interchangeable (note the same name), there's going to be some sort of narrative equivalence to them by the time they become relevant again.

 

My guess is that the Southern Thedas ends up far more accepting of mages and the college of enchanters replaces the circles of magis. Just that the timeline where Leliana is made divine got there first.

 

Just my guess.

[Dean_the_Young]

My guess is that the Southern Thedas ends up far more accepting of mages and the college of enchanters replaces the circles of magis. Just that the timeline where Leliana is made divine got there first.

 

Just my guess.

 

Alternatively, a thousand years of entrenched sentiment and habits is harder to change than it first seems, all the more so because it wasn't baseless.

 

Poor (Fiona) or inexperienced (Templar route) mage leaders playing politics on new and untested ground, Divines that range from the controversial to brutal, national and regional elites maneuvering to take advantage and exploit the new and emerging status quo, and the occassional throw of chaos in which an abomination takes out a good piece of an influential settlement here, while retaliations are made for a mage lynching there...

 

And that's not even touching on the possibility of mage disunity turning violent, which was hinted at in various states.

[The Baconer]

The most realistic is Vivienne's.

 

Eh, I don't think so. Pretty much the sum of all fears as far as the southern Chantry is concerned, and it's apparently resolved within months.

[Dean_the_Young]

Eh, I don't think so. Pretty much the sum of all fears as far as the southern Chantry is concerned, and it's apparently resolved within months.

 

Unless they were truly minor, brutally crushing three revolts isn't something that gets resolved within months. That's the sort of **** that hounds for decades.

 

And that she poisons Bastien basically inheriting his titles and influence. 

 

 

 

Is this your official stance, or are you just hamming it up because you want it to be true?

 

[Ashagar]

I'd point to Cassandra being the most realistic myself as Vivienne is basically the sum of all fears. It might seem resolved in months but realistically that only eliminated the stupid ones, the Orlaisian assassin guild and the crows would most likely be swimming in gold. As for Leliana she's ether over optimistic or carrying out a reign of terror that will end with her own death depending on wither she was hardened or not.

[Dean_the_Young]

Official. I very much thought it was a coup de grace/mercy kill that also benefited her politically. Apparently she only makes her motivations clear if you have low approval with her. No ham at all.

 

Then how do you square her research notes of, well, age-reversal, which was a plausible long-shot at an incurrable disease that she could have waited out regardless?

 

I've heard she's ruthlessly exploitative about it on low-approval, but never seen anything to back up claiming credit for deliberately killing him.

[Ryzaki]

Then how do you square her research notes of, well, age-reversal, which was a plausible long-shot at an incurrable disease that she could have waited out regardless?

 

I've heard she's ruthlessly exploitative about it on low-approval, but never seen anything to back up claiming credit for deliberately killing him.

 

Yeah plus she's pretty pissed about being given the wrong heart with her "condemned a man to death you never even met." why would she say that if it was always her plan?

[The Baconer]

Unless they were truly minor, brutally crushing three revolts isn't something that gets resolved within months. That's the sort of **** that hounds for decades.

 

Not to mention that it's essentially vindicating everyone's fears, at least from their perspective.

 

"I know I'm a mage, but not like the Black Divine, it's completely different! Also, anyone who doesn't like it will be killed."

[Lord Raijin]

Team mages!

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I generally play a Dalish (except DA2 where I couldn't and, alternate plays to see what changes by race.) So I'm pro freedom but, pro education. I want the circles to become mage acedemies where young mages are taught and tested, then they can be a safe part of society and, have any job or position anyone else has. So they have magic, that's just a tool, not who they are. maybe a mage like to cook or sew, or wield a sword, use a bow, fish, build, carve, be a stone mason. maybe the mage is the rightful heir to this or that throne or title, so what, let them have it.

 

I don't want magic to define the who anymore than a kitchen spoon does.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

I'm pretty sure the difference is that there are no templars in the "College of Enchanters" ending.

 

So, as I said, it's Tevinter Circle of Magi part deux.

 

Wonderful.

[Dean_the_Young]

I've got nothing against Vivienne. I assumed Vivienne being master of the Game that she is conveniently left those notes where they could be found

 

If Vivienne's plan is to leave things lying around that would trick the player into assassinating her lover so that she can claim his power base, a competent player wouldn't leave something that might save him. So which is it- are we to assume she's conveniently bad at the Game at the moment of her biggest play for power?

 

She could just as well have left something that said 'get the plain heart.' Or she could have simply waited it out- Vivienne's grab for power doesn't come on the basis of 'she tried to save him with a potion,' but rather the handling of his death, and there is nothing in the context or setup to suggest that Vivienne was in a rush to get him killed by the hand of the character.

 

Instead, Vivienne directly tasks us to go for the path that might work, with notes we have no in-game reason to doubt reinforcing that it should work, and the meta-knowledge of the cutscene to indicate that the 'correct' potion did indeed have an effect.

[Ashagar]

I generally play a Dalish (except DA2 where I couldn't and, alternate plays to see what changes by race.) So I'm pro freedom but, pro education. I want the circles to become mage acedemies where young mages are taught and tested, then they can be a safe part of society and, have any job or position anyone else has. So they have magic, that's just a tool, not who they are. maybe a mage like to cook or sew, or wield a sword, use a bow, fish, build, carve, be a stone mason. maybe the mage is the rightful heir to this or that throne or title, so what, let them have it.

 

I don't want magic to define the who anymore than a kitchen spoon does.

 

A kitchen spoon doesn't run the risk of becoming a abominations that could wipe out villages or nearly causing the downfall of a Marquise like the Shame of Serault.