I don't like being a dick to him. Unless Jack died in ME2. Or I didn't romance anyone else. Then I'd play a Shep who's cold and emotionally distant as possible.. and he'd cut people like Cortez off.. tell them to toughen up (and get them killed in the process too).
You mustn't do that.
ME3 is not complete without the "STEEEVE!... I'm alright." scene.
He said when a gay guy talked to him about how he was mourning his husband, it felt like he was making unwanted advances towards him. He even admitted that if the genders had been changed he probably wouldn't have felt that way. Exactly how is that not homophobia?
I don't think you know what homophobia means....
I heard that just last year the world percentage actually tipped towards women over men. Granted this was by a small amount like 50.01% and could have changed since I last heard. But regardless, the worldwide percentage and even the gamer percentage of women doesn't match the percentage of characters so the goes against the argument being presented.
That's mostly because women tend to live longer.
As for who is complaining about the DA:I characters, it seems like an awful lot of it is coming from what appear to be guys who want every woman in a game to be a sex kitten (particularly their LIs). I like a certain amount of realism in my games with a fairly realistic representation of humanity. I have nothing against the idea of having a number of hot characters in a game (again, being a female here, I do like hot guys) - it's just that it seems a bit silly to try to demand/force the designers to make every single character in the game (LIs included) into supermodels because random guy x doesn't like seeing anyone who is less than a 10 in their game.
And frankly, someone like the OP who claims that all the companions are ugly is making a spurious claim, in my opinion (even taking into consideration subjective standards of beauty). Now as far as FF games go, there's obviously the anime aesthetic at work - which is perfectly fine, because (see my avatar) I like anime. I can appreciate that aesthetic when playing a more traditional JRPG (and I have played quite a few). However, it's clear that DA games and ME games are shooting for maximum realism - maximum realism, unfortunately, means that not everyone is pretty.
I really don't think 'realism' means what you think it means at all.
You're kidding yourself if you think there's any sort of dedication to 'realism' in the primary characters of any pretty much any 'epic' action or heroic story of significant length. That is, if we define 'realism' as you seem to be as 'the sort of people you'd be most likely to meet in real life.'
Have you noticed that even when characters in fiction are ugly, they're not the same sort of ugly we see in real life? And no, I'm not talking about Mary-Ann-from-Giligans-Island-Pretend-Ugly-But-Really-A-Babe.
You mustn't do that.
ME3 is not complete without the "STEEEVE!... I'm alright." scene.
STEEEVE! is funny, but companion yells = priceless.
Interesting that FemShep just says Cortez, which sounds so much better, but lacks lulz factor.
-Cassandra, at first I wasn't sure about her looks but she actually grew on me
-Josephine has one of the ugliest outfits I've ever seen... add to the fact she never even takes it off with her G rated romance.
-Sera makes Merril look like a goddess
-Vivienne... the shaved head just doesn't fit with her elegant attire
It's not just the women though, the men also suffer as well. Blackwall, Iron Bull and Solas look like beasts. 
I'm not too worried about ME4, I'm sure there will be attractive characters. No way they can make them look worse than in DA:I.
-Josephine has one of the ugliest outfits I've ever seen... add to the fact she never even takes it off with her G rated romance.
Offtopic, but I hope there are more "G rated" romances in future Mass Effect games.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Offtopic, but I hope there are more "G rated" romances in future Mass Effect games.
Why should there be... when the games themselves are M rated. Elementary age kids aren't supposed to be buying Mass Effect in the first place.
Why should there be... when the games themselves are M rated. Elementary age kids aren't supposed to be buying Mass Effect in the first place.
I just like how DAI finally offered the players a choice in how the romance goes other than "You two must have sex or no romance whatsoever!"
Now if you want to roleplay a character who doesn't want to at that moment for whatever reason, you can do that. If you want a romance that leaves it open to interpretation, you can have that. It's a big improvement.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I just like how DAI finally offered the players a choice in how the romance goes other than "You two must have sex or no romance whatsoever!"
Now if you want to roleplay a character who doesn't want to at that moment for whatever reason, you can do that. If you want a romance that leaves it open to interpretation, you can have that. It's a big improvement.
Well, there is Samara at least. It's not sex-based at all. But I wouldn't call it G-Rated exactly either... I don't know what it is. It's still a mature storyline.
I really don't think 'realism' means what you think it means at all.
You're kidding yourself if you think there's any sort of 'realism' in the characters of any pretty much any 'epic' action or heroic story of significant length.
Have you noticed that even when characters in fiction are ugly, they're not the same sort of ugly we see in real life? And no, and I'm talking about Mary-Ann-from-Giligans-Island-Pretend-Ugly-But-Really-A-Babe.
I think realism does mean what I think it means. Now go take your Inigo Montoya act and try it on someone else.
I was talking about the devs taking a largely photorealistic approach with the characters, with the apparent goal of making them look as convincingly lifelike as possible (something the devs seem to improve at incrementally with each new game they make - ignoring DA:I issues with hairstyles). I feel that for it to really work, you also need to include a wide range of types (ugly/average/pretty) similar to what you would find in the real world. Why? Because if every single person is beautiful, then I just don't find it particularly convincing or representative of what I would actually find in the real world.
And don't be purposely obtuse or try to obfuscate matters by trying to claim that JUST because a piece of fiction falls into the epic/heroic category, one can't try to inject some realism or believability into the characters, the characters' appearances, or the fictional universe itself. Why does hard sci-fi exist? It exists because some people appreciate reading stories in which the science and technology being described are at least somewhat plausible. There is usually some basis in actual scientific principles/laws and research into real-word physics, biology, chemistry, computing, etc. In other words, the fiction in hard sci-fi is as grounded in reality as is humanly possible for the purpose of selling the story and making it convincing.
For any piece of fiction to work (and I don't care what genre it is), you have to be willing to accept the reality of the universe that has been presented to you. It has to be convincing on some level and feel "real" enough to the reader that they can suspend their disbelief. I work on manuscripts almost every day (unless I get lucky and get a couple of days off in a row), so I read a lot of completely crappy fiction novels. When one author writes dialogue in a stilted manner and the characters do not even remotely sound like real people (or act like real people), I tend to notice it right off the bat (and then I will proceed to mercilessly mock the author's terrible writing MST3K-style to entertain myself while I am forced to format the novel).
This also applies to more visual forms of fiction like games or movies or graphic novels or what-have-you. In the case of a game, I find that it makes it easier for me to believe and to accept the fictional universe that I am presented with IF the characters and character designs are, yes, realistic (and having good dialogue and writing doesn't hurt either). When I say realistic here, I will reiterate that I mean the characters should be as lifelike/photorealistic as possible (if that's the devs are trying for), along with them being designed in such a way that makes sense in the context of the character's description - particularly for companions and major NPCs (per my Zaeed example, I want my hardcore mercenary to look like a hardcore mercenary - not like he stepped out of an Abercrombie & Fitch catalogue).
That's what helps sell it for me - just like having a mixture of ugly/average/pretty people helps to sell a fictional world as being more believable than one in which everyone is pretty (like I said way up above in my second paragraph). And yes, I am well aware of the dichotomy between Hollywood "ugliness" and actual ugliness. And I ask you this: so...freaking...what? I prefer as much verisimilitude as I can get. Just because Hollywood does one thing, it doesn't mean that the game devs should necessarily follow suit.
Maybe you should watch the Twilight Zone episode called "Number 12 Looks Just Like You," which is about a world in which individuality is frowned upon and is ultimately rooted out and eradicated. Everyone is forced to become a clone (in essence) when they hit their teenage years, choosing from one of several standard body models - all because "ugliness" contributes to breeding hatred among mankind. From the wiki:
The motive of the Transformation is social harmony. According to Professor Sig, a psychologist with the Transformation service, "Years before, wiser men than I . . . saw that physical unattractiveness was one of the factors that made men hate, so they charged the finest scientific minds with the task of eliminating ugliness in mankind."
The protagonist who tries to rebel and be different (simply because she wants to be herself) ends up being crushed and is ultimately made to conform against her will. She ends up as a clone, just like her mother and everyone else. I wouldn't really want to be in a world like that, because while absolutely everyone was beautiful, they were also completely vapid and boring (along with being juiced to the gills on the equivalent of happy pills). This story was, obviously, a shot at Hollywood and the beauty standards that female actresses were subjected to. Funny thing, though, it still applies today in Hollywood - and in games, apparently.
Isn't that taking this whole thing a wee bit too seriously, now?
We get it. There should be a mix because the people in this topic are not the only ones to complain about the lack of really hot, sexy characters you can romance. but a lot of us also liked that there was diversity and a rather realistic approach to how people didn't look perfectly pretty. Still, it probably needs a mix.
Perhaps a lot of the dissatisfaction would've been fixed if there had simply been a brothel like in The Witcher where you can choose between 3-4 women (and men in the case of these games, I guess). DA:O had a pretty funny brothel thingy. Bioware is just too politically correct to have that in it, these days.
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
I think realism does mean what I think it means. Now go take your Inigo Montoya act and try it on someone else.
I was talking about the devs taking a largely photorealistic approach with the characters, with the apparent goal of making them look as convincingly lifelike as possible (something the devs seem to improve at incrementally with each new game they make - ignoring DA:I issues with hairstyles). I feel that for it to really work, you also need to include a wide range of types (ugly/average/pretty) similar to what you would find in the real world. Why? Because if every single person is beautiful, then I just don't find it particularly convincing or representative of what I would actually find in the real world.
And don't be purposely obtuse or try to obfuscate matters by trying to claim that JUST because a piece of fiction falls into the epic/heroic category, one can't try to inject some realism or believability into the characters, the characters' appearances, or the fictional universe itself. Why does hard sci-fi exist? It exists because some people appreciate reading stories in which the science and technology being described are at least somewhat plausible. There is usually some basis in actual scientific principles/laws and research into real-word physics, biology, chemistry, computing, etc. In other words, the fiction in hard sci-fi is as grounded in reality as is humanly possible for the purpose of selling the story and making it convincing.
For any piece of fiction to work (and I don't care what genre it is), you have to be willing to accept the reality of the universe that has been presented to you. It has to be convincing on some level and feel "real" enough to the reader that they can suspend their disbelief. I work on manuscripts almost every day (unless I get lucky and get a couple of days off in a row), so I read a lot of completely crappy fiction novels. When one author writes dialogue in a stilted manner and the characters do not even remotely sound like real people (or act like real people), I tend to notice it right off the bat (and then I will proceed to mercilessly mock the author's terrible writing MST3K-style to entertain myself while I am forced to format the novel).
This also applies to more visual forms of fiction like games or movies or graphic novels or what-have-you. In the case of a game, I find that it makes it easier for me to believe and to accept the fictional universe that I am presented with IF the characters and character designs are, yes, realistic (and having good dialogue and writing doesn't hurt either). When I say realistic here, I will reiterate that I mean the characters should be as lifelike/photorealistic as possible (if that's the devs are trying for), along with them being designed in such a way that makes sense in the context of the character's description - particularly for companions and major NPCs (per my Zaeed example, I want my hardcore mercenary to look like a hardcore mercenary - not like he stepped out of an Abercrombie & Fitch catalogue).
That's what helps sell it for me - just like having a mixture of ugly/average/pretty people helps to sell a fictional world as being more believable than one in which everyone is pretty (like I said way up above in my second paragraph). And yes, I am well aware of the dichotomy between Hollywood "ugliness" and actual ugliness. And I ask you this: so...freaking...what? I prefer as much verisimilitude as I can get. Just because Hollywood does one thing, it doesn't mean that the game devs should necessarily follow suit.
Maybe you should watch the Twilight Zone episode called "Number 12 Looks Just Like You," which is about a world in which individuality is frowned upon and is ultimately rooted out and eradicated. Everyone is forced to become a clone (in essence) when they hit their teenage years, choosing from one of several standard body models - all because "ugliness" contributes to breeding hatred among mankind. From the wiki:The motive of the Transformation is social harmony. According to Professor Sig, a psychologist with the Transformation service, "Years before, wiser men than I . . . saw that physical unattractiveness was one of the factors that made men hate, so they charged the finest scientific minds with the task of eliminating ugliness in mankind."
The protagonist who tries to rebel and be different (simply because she wants to be herself) ends up being crushed and is ultimately made to conform against her will. She ends up as a clone, just like her mother and everyone else. I wouldn't really want to be in a world like that, because while absolutely everyone was beautiful, they were also completely vapid and boring (along with being juiced to the gills on the equivalent of happy pills). This story was, obviously, a shot at Hollywood and the beauty standards that female actresses were subjected to. Funny thing, though, it still applies today in Hollywood - and in games, apparently.
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
Why not a give a choice though? I really hope ME4 doesn't force us on a no sex pathI just like how DAI finally offered the players a choice in how the romance goes other than "You two must have sex or no romance whatsoever!"
Now if you want to roleplay a character who doesn't want to at that moment for whatever reason, you can do that. If you want a romance that leaves it open to interpretation, you can have that. It's a big improvement.
Solas's romance arc is anything but childish and immature.
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
-Cassandra, at first I wasn't sure about her looks but she actually grew on me
-Josephine has one of the ugliest outfits I've ever seen... add to the fact she never even takes it off with her G rated romance.
-Sera makes Merril look like a goddess
-Vivienne... the shaved head just doesn't fit with her elegant attire
It's not just the women though, the men also suffer as well. Blackwall, Iron Bull and Solas look like beasts.
I'm not too worried about ME4, I'm sure there will be attractive characters. No way they can make them look worse than in DA:I.
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
I don't doubt itSolas's romance arc is anything but childish and immature.
agreed @swobyj but I think we'll get better hair and all that in time especially as the next ME is only going to be PS4/XB1 only the old gen systems aer going to be left behind now. So the focus on the old gen systems can be used to make the next games better. Personally I love the graphics in DAI especially the scenery. The cutscene where your first introduced to Skyhold for example is epic so the potential is definetey there imo. The focus on just focusing on the newer consoles will I think lead to that improving. Another great example of better hair I think would be looking at Miranda Keyes in the remastered Halo 2 for the XB1 that was very well done I thought. If they can do things like that with the next ME game we'll be looking at a good quality game I think. Given the way the new Fifa's are progressing and that Fifa 16 wil have womens football for the first time I think it's possible.
I do wonder at how much the characters in DA:I were design decisions, engine limitations, cross-platform limitations, or just plain lower priority on animations. Been playing Witcher 3 now for a few weeks and honestly, the realistic characters in that game completely blow DA:I out of the water which is unusual since its only 6 months older.
Hopefully the ME team devotes a bit more resources to making the characters look a bit more alive than DA:I did.
Why not a give a choice though? I really hope ME4 doesn't force us on a no sex path
It makes the romance seem childish and immature
I think that one character in the Mass Effect trilogy should have been this way: Tali. Much to the likely dismay of many an avid Talimancer, her unique situation would have been a prime target for an obligatorily platonic relationship, because she could die. The fact that she adapts to an alien's bodily fluids so quickly despite telling us in a prior game that it would take her people over the course of a few decades to adapt to a new planet is plenty ridiculous. If the game played up her considerably poor immune system in the romance to the point where she could never interact with Shepard outside of her suit, I guess we'd see just how mature a lot of the fandom really is about the whole thing.
Aaaaaand there we go... The same sh*t LGBT always say when they feel offended.
I'm more offended by the lack of intelligence than the actual homophobia, not that I find it that offensive to begin with. People are ignorant.....big news.
That's how he felt ffs, it does not makes him a homophobe, if he went around like "OMG Steve sucks because he is gay I feel like he wants to rape me, I'm glad he can die in the game lol rofl" then maybe. I never felt like he was sending a message to maleshep (in the disco part, yes), but if he felt like that who the hell cares? It's his opinion dammit.
And why is it radical? Oh I see, because I respect his right of freedom of speech and don't go insulting a person i don't know then surely I must be an old school conservative or something like that who also hates progress and loves to oppress minorities. I see.
Actually, it does. A person doesn't stop being a racist or a sexist because they don't want to murder every brown person/ female in existence, but instead wishes to relegate them to a subserviant or 2nd class role with less rights, or even just feels a bit uncomfortable working next to them. The double standard that is based solely on the character's sexuality is all that is required to make that judgement. It's textbook homophobe (which no, doesn't mean that one is literally afraid that the gay boogieman is going to sneak into one's house and do nefarious things to their butthole while one sleeps).
LOL@ invoking freedom of speech. That's a legal/ civil concept that protects your ability to say what you want (within reason) without government interference. It doesn't protect an individual's ability to not be rightfully criticized or bashed by others for spewing brainless, out of touch homophobic diarrhea all over a video game forum, or any public forum for that matter.
I think that one character in the Mass Effect trilogy should have been this way: Tali. Much to the likely dismay of many an avid Talimancer, her unique situation would have been a prime target for an obligatorily platonic relationship, because she could die. The fact that she adapts to an alien's bodily fluids so quickly despite telling us in a prior game that it would take her people over the course of a few decades to adapt to a new planet is plenty ridiculous. If the game played up her considerably poor immune system in the romance to the point where she could never interact with Shepard outside of her suit, I guess we'd see just how mature a lot of the fandom really is about the whole thing.
Agreed, it was a missed oppourtunity to tell a really unique and touching story that fit with the themes of the character. Not that I dislike what we got instead, but it isn't really that different from any other romance (character excluded) once the deed is done and nothing of note really ends up happening.
The crying that would probably have ensued from rabid Tali fanbois though, yeah.....that alone makes me reconsider. Could have made the ending fiasco or DAI's complaints from mouth breathing dudebros seem small time by comparison.
And it's actually worse, the comment about needing decades or centuries to adapt to either Rannoch or another colony respectively, was actually from ME2, during her Loyalty Mission. Derp
Actually, it does. A person doesn't stop being a racist or a sexist because they don't want to murder every brown person/ female in existence, but instead wishes to relegate them to a subserviant or 2nd class role with less rights, or even just feels a bit uncomfortable working next to them. The double standard that is based solely on the character's sexuality is all that is required to make that judgement. It's textbook homophobe (which no, doesn't mean that one is literally afraid that the gay boogieman is going to sneak into one's house and do nefarious things to their butthole while one sleeps).
Because people always react and act the same way regardless of the person they have in front of them, right?
That person next to you is homosexual? Then you're going to act in a different way, now you have to pick your words and think carefully what to say (even if you're joking) because you don't want to offend them or make them feel bad. The same thing will happen with that neighbor of you that is a diehard republican, or your best friend who is a fanboy of Real Madrid, or that person who is a Mexican immigrant, or that old lady who is a very loyal Catholic.
And how the hell does feeling that Cortez wanted to f*** Shepard and was sending him messages makes him a homophobe? I felt like Liara wanted to f*** my Shepard throughout the entire trilogy and it made some scenes really awkward, now I'm a xenophobe or something?
LOL@ invoking freedom of speech. That's a legal/ civil concept that protects your ability to say what you want (within reason) without government interference. It doesn't protect an individual's ability to not be rightfully criticized or bashed by others for spewing brainless, out of touch homophobic diarrhea all over a video game forum, or any public forum for that matter.
That's actually wrong. You can raise your kids to become racists, homophobes, nazis, communists or however the hell you want as long as they don't physically hurt people. You can't take rights away from person simply because another person is offended. That's freedom for you.
I know what it is to be discriminated from first hand, so don't bring me bulls***.
I think you are missing the point. No one said that you couldn't be homophobic or sexist. They are saying that 'Freedom of Speech' doesn't protect you from the CONSEQUENCES of those choices, outside of persecution from the government.Because people always react and act the same way regardless of the person they have in front of them, right?
That person next to you is homosexual? Then you're going to act in a different way, now you have to pick your words and think carefully what to say (even if you're joking) because you don't want to offend them or make them feel bad. The same thing will happen with that neighbor of you that is a diehard republican, or your best friend who is a fanboy of Real Madrid, or that person who is a Mexican immigrant, or that old lady who is a very loyal Catholic.
And how the hell does feeling that Cortez wanted to f*** Shepard and was sending him messages makes him a homophobe? I felt like Liara wanted to f*** my Shepard throughout the entire trilogy and it made some scenes really awkward, now I'm a xenophobe or something?
That's actually wrong. You can raise your kids to become racists, homophobes, nazis, communists or however the hell you want as long as they don't physically hurt people. You can't take rights away from person simply because another person is offended. That's freedom for you.
I know what it is to be discriminated from first hand, so don't bring me bulls***.
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