If average looking characters are a policy to appease some party then there is something wrong with the "norm" in the first place.
Even more so in a game that is not aimed at masturbating adolescents.
I don't think Josephine is at all average. A great many real women would gladly look as attractive, I'd imagine. I'm honestly surprised that, not only do some think that these NPCs are notably unattractive, but that these threads pop up and endure. I guess far more people than I'd have ever imagined play these games, in part, for the "I dated a super-model" fantasy.
BioWare does cave to fan-service, cater to vocal beggars and champion causes far more than I prefer. I don't like receiving a real-life sermon when I play video games, regardless of the message. (This is mostly an ongoing thing with Gaider's team, rather than ME.) Nor do I like seeing narratives compromised in order to force popular NPCs into unjustified prominence or roles. (Tali, of course.) All that acknowledged, I do not think these NPCs are such. They are good, realistic-looking NPCs. I hope we see more NPCs like them.
If average looking characters are a policy to appease some party then there is something wrong with the "norm" in the first place.
Even more so in a game that is not aimed at masturbating adolescents.
Do films of whatever genre, generally have above average looking people in them... yes because this is what people enjoy, especially in love stories as we prefer to imagine the ideal or at least something close. Portraying this as a choice between gritty reality and masturbating adolescents is just a stupid straw man argument.
I just find it a strange argument coming from ME fans. I assume, in at least some cases, that these same fans were the ones that pushed for and pursued romances with Tali and Garrus. How in the world are either physically attractive to a human? They are completely alien.
They are both digitigrade. One is hidden in a bodysuit because just breathing our air can make her sick (yet you want to kiss her, to slip her the goods). What little we can see is glowing eyes and a prominent nose. The other is a chitinous bird-man with four mandibles. Does Garrus have a cloaca? Better not to think about it, I guess. I could go on and on, but I assume I've made the point.
An average or even below average looking human is more attractive than that, in my mind. Personally, I'd take any female humanoid from DAI over Tali and a million dollar shagging-bonus. How are the NPCs of DAI worthy of complaint if you romanced Garrus, Tali, or Thane? You can't play the personality card, since the complaint has always been about appearance.
I just find it a strange argument coming from ME fans. I assume, in at least some cases, that these same fans were the ones that pushed for and pursued romances with Tali and Garrus. How in the world are either physically attractive to a human? They are completely alien.
They are both digitigrade. One is hidden in a bodysuit because just breathing our air can make her sick (yet you want to kiss her, to slip her the goods). What little we can see is glowing eyes and a prominent nose. The other is a chitinous bird-man with four mandibles. Does Garrus have a cloaca? Better not to think about it, I guess. I could go on and on, but I assume I've made the point.
An average or even below average looking human is more attractive that that, in my mind. Personally, I'd take any female humanoid from DAI over Tali and a million dollar shagging-bonus. How are the NPCs of DAI worthy of complaint if you romanced Garrus, Tali, or Thane? You can't play the personality card, since the complaint has always been about appearance.
LoL. ME fans are not that bad though. I have seen weirder things, like this slice of fandom...
Neither do I, that was just a response to Calders.
Do films of whatever genre, generally have above average looking people in them... yes because this is what people enjoy, especially in love stories as we prefer to imagine the ideal or at least something close. Portraying this as a choice between gritty reality and masturbating adolescents is just a stupid straw man argument.
Although my choice of words might have been exaggerated, I find it rather sad that when suddenly less than a crushing majority of main female cast consists of "barbie dolls"(don't pick me up on this again, you know what I mean) we notice this influx of 'females are ugly' threads
Although my choice of words might have been exaggerated, I find it rather sad that when suddenly less than a crushing majority of main female cast consists of "barbie dolls"(don't pick me up on this again, you know what I mean) we notice this influx of 'females are ugly' threads
It's mind boggling, and infuriating in a way. Just look at what's going on here... this is topic in the ME3 section of the forums complaining how the women in Dragon Age Inquistion look showing fear that this might happen to ME4 as well.
This borders on insanity. Not even because both Cassandra and Josephine are just marvelous women. I can see why they wouldn't be of someone's preference, but to call them ugly is just preposterous and almost unbelieveable.
And then there's also a gazillion topics about how how there's only 2 romances for straight men, and soooooooo many for the 'others'. I'm going to just assume that these are the same people that claim racism doesn't exist except for white being discriminated against every day. (And please, people who feel offended for me saying that, go assume I am black for posting this, confirming exactly what kind of human being you are). And the worst part of it all is that they feel like they are giving something up, or giving into the desires of the LGBT community. They don't realize that everything caters to their desires and still does. Just giving others something too is like they are losing something... it's borderline psychotic.
AtreiyaN7, sH0tgUn jUliA, Kali073 et 4 autres aiment ceci
It's mind boggling, and infuriating in a way. Just look at what's going on here... this is topic in the ME3 section of the forums complaining how the women in Dragon Age Inquistion look showing fear that this might happen to ME4 as well.
This borders on insanity. Not even because both Cassandra and Josephine are just marvelous women. I can see why they wouldn't be of someone's preference, but to call them ugly is just preposterous and almost unbelieveable.
And then there's also a gazillion topics about how how there's only 2 romances for straight men, and soooooooo many for the 'others'. I'm going to just assume that these are the same people that claim racism doesn't exist except for white being discriminated against every day. (And please, people who feel offended for me saying that, go assume I am black for posting this, confirming exactly what kind of human being you are). And the worst part of it all is that they feel like they are giving something up, or giving into the desires of the LGBT community. They don't realize that everything caters to their desires and still does. Just giving others something too is like they are losing something... it's borderline psychotic.
What a collection of utter rubbish... ridiculous assumption about posters based on no evidence. And this is the trick of the illiberal ideologues, if they don't like something that is being said they turn it into some extreme statement so they can portray those people as sexist, racists, homophobes or whatever so they can shut them up. The irony is you think you are being social inclusive at the same time as trying to control every bodies opinion.
canarius, FirstBlood XL et Xiolyrr Zoharei aiment ceci
What?? Nobody looks uglier then Miranda... Something is so off with her face, it's squished together and doesn't do her actor justice. In my opinion. Of course. The faces of Inquisition were far better proportioned.
I think you got distracted by Miranda and Isabela's ass OP. Nothing wrong with Samantha, that much is true.
It's mind boggling, and infuriating in a way. Just look at what's going on here... this is topic in the ME3 section of the forums complaining how the women in Dragon Age Inquistion look showing fear that this might happen to ME4 as well.
This borders on insanity. Not even because both Cassandra and Josephine are just marvelous women. I can see why they wouldn't be of someone's preference, but to call them ugly is just preposterous and almost unbelieveable.
And then there's also a gazillion topics about how how there's only 2 romances for straight men, and soooooooo many for the 'others'. I'm going to just assume that these are the same people that claim racism doesn't exist except for white being discriminated against every day. (And please, people who feel offended for me saying that, go assume I am black for posting this, confirming exactly what kind of human being you are). And the worst part of it all is that they feel like they are giving something up, or giving into the desires of the LGBT community. They don't realize that everything caters to their desires and still does. Just giving others something too is like they are losing something... it's borderline psychotic
I am not simply complaining about the look of the female characters in DAI. I am talking about the overall art style of the humanoid characters in the game. They look WIERD. It's seems purposefully unappealing as a design decision and I find it very off-putting.
For Mass Effect and especially ME3, I didn't make my Fem Shep look like a supermodel. I made her slightly butch while still being attractive. For me it didn't seem right for a supermodel to be out there fighting aliens, commanding strike teams and saving the galaxy. I get it. HOWEVER the people in DAI....simple random villagers included look WIERD. Not simply unattractive but STRANGELY unattractive.
The people of DAI look unattractive to the point that it is distracting from my enjoyment of the game and I would honestly die a little inside if Bioware went with some internal design synergy nonsense and made the people of ME4 look anything like the people of DAI,
What a collection of utter rubbish... ridiculous assumption about posters based on no evidence. And this is the trick of the illiberal ideologues, if they don't like something that is being said they turn it into some extreme statement so they can portray those people as sexist, racists, homophobes or whatever so they can shut them up. The irony is you think you are being social inclusive at the same time as trying to control every bodies opinion.
And this is the typical heterosexual white male response. Racism? Don't wanna talk about it, I have a black friend. Sexism? Don't be ridiculous, I'm married. Homophobe? I have a gay friend. And of course, accusing me of being somekind of totalitarian mind control dictator. Lol.
These things don't mean anything. You don't have to willfully be sexist to do sexist things, or be a convinced white supremacist to do racist things. That's why these things are so important to keep talking about, because they are done without being given proper thought or on purpose, they are just there and to go.
And this is the typical heterosexual white male response. Racism? Don't wanna talk about it, I have a black friend. Sexism? Don't be ridiculous, I'm married. Homophobe? I have a gay friend. And of course, accusing me of being somekind of totalitarian mind control dictator. Lol.
These things don't mean anything. You don't have to willfully be sexist to do sexist things, or be a convinced white supremacist to do racist things. That's why these things are so important to keep talking about, because they are done without being given proper thought or on purpose, they are just there and to go.
You do realise that this makes you a sexist, racist, and heterophobe (I might just have made that last word up but you get the point). I know you will tell me that prejudice can only exist against the people you say it can or some such nonsense. For the record I never said that those other forms of discrimination didn't exist, just that its not relevant to this thread.
EDIT: and yes you can be prejudiced against groups you are a member of (having just seen your last post)
I just find it a strange argument coming from ME fans. I assume, in at least some cases, that these same fans were the ones that pushed for and pursued romances with Tali and Garrus. How in the world are either physically attractive to a human? They are completely alien.
Garrus yes, Tali no.
With that reveal in ME3 Quarians are now the most human-looking of the alien species by far. They are now practically Star Trek aliens, with even the Asari being alien in comparison. But even before ME3, many of Tali's fans (perhaps most) were just imagining something very human-looking under that helmet anyway. This after all, was the most popular piece of Tali fanart.
One of my gripes about Tali being made an LI is that a side effect was that it ruined the Quarians. The fans were imagining a human under the helmet so thats what Bioware gave them.
With that reveal in ME3 Quarians are now the most human-looking of the alien species by far. They are now practically Star Trek aliens, with even the Asari being alien in comparison. But even before ME3, many of Tali's fans (perhaps most) were just imagining something very human-looking under that helmet anyway. This after all, was the most popular piece of Tali fanart.
One of my gripes about Tali being made an LI is that a side effect was that it ruined the Quarians. The fans were imagining a human under the helmet so thats what Bioware gave them.
Yeah, it ruined the Quarians. They became digitigrade humans in bubble-suits. Of course, it turns out, they aren't nearly as fragile as we we've been told all along, either. At one point in ME2, Tali is ill because of stray bacteria migrating after a minor suit rupture. By the end of the game, she's out of the suit kissing and sexing Shepard. :eyes-roll: If the Quarians were that robust, you'd see a hell of a lot more of them (or any at all!) out of suits in the course of three centuries. They'd have established some colonies by now, if it were a matter of loading up on herbs and antibiotics.
Shoe-horning Tali into the story of ME3 ruined any semblance of credibility for Legion's and Tali's respective story-paths. I will always feel that making Tali a LI was a terrible direction to go, regardless of how many have a virtual-crush on Tali. It made no narrative sense, and it undermined a lot of otherwise quality lore.
I quite like the idea of humans and turians pairing up (don't give a rats patootie about Fleet&Flotilla no matter how much it is shoehorned into ME2, Lotsb dossiers, or Citadel dlc. It is said turians and humans have a very similar psychology when it comes to sex and relationships. I read the codex and it says that ingesting different amino acids will do nothing at best and cause an allergic reaction to death at worst depending on the individual. I know many people can digest milk, but I get deadly ill from dairy. My aunt suffers from schizophrenia and has to take a dextro amino supplement to balance her neurotransmitters. So it can't be that lethal to humans.
I can see turian and human romances in the future. Turians are massively popular with the female fanbase. Garrus was written by Patrick Weekes in ME2 and he was good friends (I think?) with Chris L'Etoile who wrote Thane in ME2. I got Thane's loyalty mission same time as Garrus's and their loyalty missions took place on the citadel. Strange thing, and I wonder if this was deliberate but, at least with female Shepard it was jarring to go from blocking Garrus's shot with Sidonis to then hearing Thane tell you he fell in love with his wife when she blocked his shot and saved his soul. I just found it poetic really (is that the right word?). I always end up romancing Garrus for this reason, Shepard becomes his Siha.
With that reveal in ME3 Quarians are now the most human-looking of the alien species by far. They are now practically Star Trek aliens, with even the Asari being alien in comparison. But even before ME3, many of Tali's fans (perhaps most) were just imagining something very human-looking under that helmet anyway. This after all, was the most popular piece of Tali fanart.
One of my gripes about Tali being made an LI is that a side effect was that it ruined the Quarians. The fans were imagining a human under the helmet so thats what Bioware gave them.
Yep. The asari are very intriguing for many reasons. Super biotics, monogendered, longevity, diplomacy and rationality, and they are the most powerful race. I never thought they were too human. The back of their fringe and necks is rather awkward looking and a bit intimidating if you ascribe sexual connotations to it. That may very well be the asari sex organ how they meld and reproduce. It is hinted by Mordin and at that Ilium bachelor party that they can force physical attraction (i think?). They may not be that human at all.
One good side effect of the human faced quarian is that maybe the female fanbase will get a more human looking alien stud with a male quarian love interest. I never romance the humans because they are so boring. Every time Kaidan or Jacob spoke I fell asleep.
I should add that drell seem too impractical. If you kiss them you hallucinate and then you get a raging rash in your genitals or wherever you fancy. Who wants to go into a sexual encounter and come out with an itchy rash all over their body and genitals?
What a weird discussion. Yes, the NPC don't look like the porcelain dolls from the Eclipse-engine games anymore. Their looks now reflect their age and experience. It would be really weird if a hardened warrior like Cassandra, who is probably in her late 30s or early 40s, looked like a 20-something supermodel.
Besides, Josephine, Leliana (both most likely in their mid 30s) and Cassandra have a very unique look that makes them attractive in the first place. At least to me.
It's the same discussion we had with ME3. As soon as the Devs try to give the NPCs a unique appearance and not a generic face created with the CC, people complain. Remember when people all the sudden accused Ashley of being a transvestite. Dark times.
What a weird discussion. Yes, the NPC don't look like the porcelain dolls from the Eclipse-engine games anymore. Their looks now reflect their age and experience. It would be really weird if a hardened warrior like Cassandra, who is probably in her late 30s or early 40s, looked like a 20-something supermodel.
Besides, Josephine, Leliana (both most likely in their mid 30s) and Cassandra have a very unique look that makes them attractive in the first place. At least to me.
It's the same discussion we had with ME3. As soon as the Devs try to give the NPCs a unique appearance and not a generic face created with the CC, people complain. Remember when people all the sudden accused Ashley of being a transvestite. Dark times.
I agree, mostly. Ash already had an unique, believable appearance. People complained in that case because it was ruined in order to "sex her up".
You do realise that this makes you a sexist, racist, and heterophobe (I might just have made that last word up but you get the point). I know you will tell me that prejudice can only exist against the people you say it can or some such nonsense. For the record I never said that those other forms of discrimination didn't exist, just that its not relevant to this thread.
EDIT: and yes you can be prejudiced against groups you are a member of (having just seen your last post)
Let me tell you a story about my country, the Netherlands. Widely perceived around the world as one of the most progressive, tolerant countries in the world
In my country we don't celebrate Christmas with Santa Claus. We have Santa Claus' predecessor Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet (Black Pete. Which is exactly what is sounds like: a white guy wearing blackface). If you have no idea what I'm talking about, watch this:
I'm fairly certain that, wherever you come from, you find this appaling. It is. But we are raised with it. We see it as completely and totally normal and for most people, it's one of their fondest childhood memories. Add to that that we are told pretty much from birth that the Netherlands is a very tolerant country where racism doesn't exist and you get a country that feels like it's the most reasonable, tolerant, and acceptant country in the world. (Just like, for instance, Americans are told from birth they live in the greatest country in world, and most fully believe they are)
But in recent years, people have spoken out against the Sinterklaas tradition, especially the aspect of Black Pete and it's obvious racist overtones. (just for your image; Sinterklaas is one white guy with hundres of Black Petes doing all the work for him). **** hit the fan. The fac that we're spoonfed from birth that we are really tolerant people led to remarks like: "I'm not racist, but these black idiots have to go back their own country" (saillant detail: almost all of the 'black idiots' have the Dutch Nationality. Most of them come from countries we previously colonised and exploited). And that's one of the nicer replies. Most were far worse, including gas chambers, nukes and I dunno whatelse. They got so upset that one of the thing they like might actually be really wrong, that they just lost it.
And that's why I'm telling you this story: no rational human being thinks of himself as a sexist or a racist. But that doesn't preclude them from doing sexist things or doing racist things, especially not if you fully believe you aren't one. But as a white, heterosexual male, I will never feel the effects racism, because I am white. I will never feel the effects of sexism, because I am a man. But white, heterosexual males just love to give their opinion about what they think is not racist or not sexist, while they really have no say in it. They are never the victims of it and always the purpetrators. And when they are told thusly, most, not all, but by far the most, will simply conclude for the other party that they are being overly sensitive and that what they are doing is not racist or sexist.
Just look at what sparked this conversation. I mentioned the ridiculous amounts of topics about there being 'too much LGBT romances', someone read it, and immediatly started talking about how I was implying people were homophobes, but really, they aren't, it was just a trick. A trick used by evil liberals to shut up the 'good people'. Nothing substantial, nothing about the actual romances or anything, just downright ignoring it altogether as if it isn't there. As if these threads do NOT show an extreme case of homophobie. As if I am the bad person for pointing it out.
You know, just like how black people are accused of being overdramatic emotional pansies when they bring up racism instead of talking about the racism that is happening. Because to the white man (and I'm going to stress this again: I AM ONE), racism doesn't exist, so he doesn't want to hear about. To the white man, sexism doesn't exist, so he doesn't want to hear about it.
(I purposely left out homosexualty in most of the examples, I can't have this discussion highjacked by the bible belt)
But as a white, heterosexual male, I will never feel the effects racism, because I am white. I will never feel the effects of sexism, because I am a man.
Racism and sexism are not limited to a specific race or gender. A white man can feel the effects of racism or sexism in an environment where white men are not the majority and do not decide anything. It's just more rare. The idea is to treat others equally regardless of their gender, race or sexual preferences.
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