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[Exile Isan]

The glowing comment has to do with the anchor mark on the Inquisitor's hand. It does glow you know.

[jellobell]

Actually, Solas' biggest fear is dying alone, but that's not important.

I never said that his "biggest" fear was the decline of the elves, but it obviously weighs heavily on him, especially since he believes it to be partly his fault.

 

And of course Sera is special; picked up a bow with little to no training, can keep up a fight with Cassandra of all people (warrior for years, trained under the best, constantly at it...then this chick shows up with arrows and can slay a motherfucking dragon at level 23 with her focus on nightmare. WTF.) Sera is also a member of Red Jenny, a group that we knew next to nothing about in until she said something. Strangely perceptive, has a tavern song dedicated to her, was adopted by a noble despite being an elf. In terms of personality, I'd say that she's as unique as they come by. 

She has a tavern song dedicated to her for any number of reasons. The composer thought it would be fun, perhaps. Sera thinks it's because Maryden's hitting on her. There's no deeper significance there. Also you can't conflate gameplay with story in a game like this. By the end of the game Vivienne could've soloed Corypheus no sweat. The fact that Sera can take down a dragon on nightmare does not mean that she is in some way set apart from the other companions in terms of ability. She's a natural with a bow, yes. Perhaps that is partially because of some inborn magical talent. However anything more than minor hedge mage powers would've gotten her carted off to the circle (which would explain why she's so cagey about magic and mages in general). With the way magic works, it likely would have manifested as something she could understand and work with; her ability with a bow and her perceptiveness.

 

However, she could also be cagey about magic because people in Thedas are in general absolutely terrified of it. Sera's grown up poor, uneducated, and has absorbed the prejudices that most people in Thedas have. That's what makes her perspective so interesting. Among a collection of special snowflakes (a Tevinter mage, a first enchanter, the right hand of the divine, an elven deity), she brings the viewpoint of a commoner. A very driven commoner, yes, but still someone who's had to struggle to make ends meet and doesn't truck with all of these powerful people deciding what's best for her.

 

And of course she's got a unique personality. They all do. Every companion is unique because they provide a window into some part of the Dragon Age world. Because Dragon Age is the story of a world, and Bioware try to provide characters that show you different sides of that world. Sera works as a character because hers is a perspective that we haven't seen before. She doesn't need to be an elven god in disguise, we have one of those already.

[gombie]

Not sure if anyone else mentioned this, But when speaking to solas and you ask him about thoughts on old elves found in the temple.

 

He says, You should ask sera, I'm sure sera has strange intepretations of it all. and you respond "I'm talking to you, not sera", you get a "solas slightly disapproves"

 

Also i always felt her coming to help the inquisition was very forced, but i could easily be trying to justify things just to fit this theory.

[Helmetto]

I never said that his "biggest" fear was the decline of the elves, but it obviously weighs heavily on him, especially since he believes it to be partly his fault.

 

 

She has a tavern song dedicated to her for any number of reasons. The composer thought it would be fun, perhaps. Sera thinks it's because Maryden's hitting on her. There's no deeper significance there. Also you can't conflate gameplay with story in a game like this. By the end of the game Vivienne could've soloed Corypheus no sweat. The fact that Sera can take down a dragon on nightmare does not mean that she is in some way set apart from the other companions in terms of ability. She's a natural with a bow, yes. Perhaps that is partially because of some inborn magical talent. However anything more than minor hedge mage powers would've gotten her carted off to the circle (which would explain why she's so cagey about magic and mages in general). With the way magic works, it likely would have manifested as something she could understand and work with; her ability with a bow and her perceptiveness.

 

However, she could also be cagey about magic because people in Thedas are in general absolutely terrified of it. Sera's grown up poor, uneducated, and has absorbed the prejudices that most people in Thedas have. That's what makes her perspective so interesting. Among a collection of special snowflakes (a Tevinter mage, a first enchanter, the right hand of the divine, an elven deity), she brings the viewpoint of a commoner. A very driven commoner, yes, but still someone who's had to struggle to make ends meet and doesn't truck with all of these powerful people deciding what's best for her.

 

And of course she's got a unique personality. They all do. Every companion is unique because they provide a window into some part of the Dragon Age world. Because Dragon Age is the story of a world, and Bioware try to provide characters that show you different sides of that world. Sera works as a character because hers is a perspective that we haven't seen before. She doesn't need to be an elven god in disguise, we have one of those already.

 

From what I've seen, magic doesn't manifest as automatic skill points in archery and perception (unless you're wandering the fade, but that would explain one of the two.)

 

And that's not entirely true; Sera has said that she grew up no where near the bottom of what "normal" people live through. On top of that, she was adopted by a noble and raised by her for quite some time. She's also capable of reading and writing, has at least read a book on her faith (and several other books for that matter, either finding them boring or what have you), and has some alchemical skill if her flasks are any indication. She also has an understanding of how the governments work in Fereldan and Orlais. She has also stated that "normal" people would go "Ahh Mages. Ahhh Templars. Ahhh Hungry." We have Cassandra of all people, Cullen, and several mages in the party, but never once has she told the mages personally to go lock themselves up in a tower. In fact, for someone who has exhibited some problematic-for-the-Inquisition beliefs, she has never discriminated against anybody on a personal level, something that we have seen people do in Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 (or at least, had them be quite hesitant around those sorts of people). She is far from uneducated and poor, and she is far different than normal people in terms of how she executes her beliefs.

 

And the reason why I pointed out Sera's power to slay dragons in one hit, is because out of all companions, she is perhaps the only one who is extremely inexperienced, and very likely the youngest. We have battle hardened soldiers. We have mages who have spent their whole lives training. Don't get me started on Varric. And then there is Sera, who keeps up with all of these people and has had maybe an ounce of training. The only person who comes close to that is Cole, and he is a spirit of the fade and has existed for a very long time (not to mention has had an adventure in Asunder). In short, Sera doesn't have anything on these people, and yet keeps up with all of them fairly well. That doesn't strike you in the least bit strange?

[Fandango]

She doesn't need to be an elven god in disguise, we have one of those already.

You know, this 'what are the odd's' argument does less than nothing to convince me that there isn't something of Andruil about Sera.


 
Source:

http://shispan.tumbl...peculation-more

There's clearly something there.

[jellobell]

From what I've seen, magic doesn't manifest as automatic skill points in archery and perception (unless you're wandering the fade, but that would explain one of the two.)

Magic manifests in myriad ways, because it is tied to belief and he perceptions of the mage. The only reason that all of the mages in Dragon Age we have seen thus far use the same spells is that they have all received roughly the same training in either the Circles or by their Keeper. It's the rigid framework of that training which guides their magic into predictable forms, and allows them to do spells. However, hedge mages can manifest abilities that nobody has seen before because their perceptions of their power have not been limited by training. That's how Avvar shamans and Rivaini seers have powers that exist outside of commonly-held magical practice. The Saarebas' powers are also limited by how they are 'trained'. David Gaider has said in interviews that they can't do anything with their magic other than big, damaging explosions, which fits the way that they're treated. They're treated as dangerous objects, and thus their magic manifests as destructive.

 

Here's the interview where David Gaider talks about a lot of this stuff:

 

 

So if Sera, who has had no magical training at all and who fears magic, were to have some latent talent herself then it would manifest in a form she could best make sense of. However, her talent couldn't be too strong, or else she'd attract demons. Which is why it manifests in such a subtle way.

 

She is far from uneducated and poor, and she is far different than normal people in terms of how she executes her beliefs.

She's not completely uneducated (i.e. illiterate) but she's more on par with your regular Fereldan or Orlesian citizen than the entire rest of the cast is. She knows the chant of light, which corresponds to basic religious education that most everyone would get. She's read some books before, but is obviously not very well-read (and scoffs at academic knowledge in general). And both before and after she was taken in by that human noble she lived on the streets and had to fend for herself (the noble was already dying when she adopted sera, and the cookies conversation hints that Sera didn't spend much time with her). When she tells you where she was during the Blight she says she has vivid memories of trying to find food. She's probably had to live hand-to-mouth more than once in her life, and she's proud of her self-reliance.

 

She discriminates against Cole because he's something that's outside her experience. She literally refuses to talk to "it". She gets along alright with mages but constantly expresses a fear of magic. If you ally with the mages, she's unhappy, because she sees mages as scary and outside of her understanding of the world. She also expresses concern when a mage Inquisitor receives their specialization, telling them to "tone down the magic". It's an understandable view to have, and likely a very common one in Thedas.

 

And the reason why I pointed out Sera's power to slay dragons in one hit, is because out of all companions, she is perhaps the only one who is extremely inexperienced, and very likely the youngest. We have battle hardened soldiers. We have mages who have spent their whole lives training. Don't get me started on Varric. And then there is Sera, who keeps up with all of these people and has had maybe an ounce of training. The only person who comes close to that is Cole, and he is a spirit of the fade and has existed for a very long time (not to mention has had an adventure in Asunder). In short, Sera doesn't have anything on these people, and yet keeps up with all of them fairly well. That doesn't strike you in the least bit strange?

No, because it's demanded by gameplay that everybody be roughly on par, balance-wise. That has nothing to do with the story. Also, Sera establishes early on that she taught herself how to shoot from a young age. She's been using that bow for most of her life. If nothing else, she's had a lot of practice. Also, interesting that you bring up Varric. Varric is very obviously not a fighter. He's a merchant from Kirkwall. He says himself that Bianca does most of the work for him. He hasn't spent most of his life running a quasi-guerilla organization like Sera has. He hasn't got the benefit of any sort of military training or magic. Are you going to argue that Varric is special too?

 

 

You know, this 'what are the odd's' argument does less than nothing to convince me that there isn't something of Andruil about Sera.

There's clearly something there.

There's only so many ways you can illustrate a drawn bow, you know. They will all have a roughly triangular shape. Also, using art assets as fuel for theory is a bad idea because often the writers aren't in constant communication with the art department. So they can say, "hey, draw Sera a tarot card based on her cheeky, fun-loving personality" and the artist draws a thing. If you want evidence for theories then you should probably stick to stuff that's said in-game (and, no, those banters haven't convinced me either) and codex entries.

 

For example, people were going nuts over the female figure in the well of mythal's human ears until one of the devs pointed out on twitter that it was simply a design oversight. People are reading way too much into a theory that makes no sense from either a characterization or a storytelling perspective.

[Fandango]

There's only so many ways you can illustrate a drawn bow, you know. They will all have a roughly triangular shape. Also, using art assets as fuel for theory is a bad idea because often the writers aren't in constant communication with the art department. So they can say, "hey, draw Sera a tarot card based on her cheeky, fun-loving personality" and the artist draws a thing. If you want evidence for theories then you should probably stick to stuff that's said in-game (and, no, those banters haven't convinced me either) and codex entries.

For example, people were going nuts over the female figure in the well of mythal's human ears until one of the devs pointed out on twitter that it was simply a design oversight. People are reading way too much into a theory that makes no sense from either a characterization or a storytelling perspective.

That this speculation doesn’t speak to you personally doesn't make any less interesting to me jellobell. Besides, I'm not so willing to dismiss Seras tarot card, given that it seems to perfectly illustrate important events of Andruils past:



Which is to say nothing of the other - perfectly lucid - evidences people have put forward in this thread and elsewhere. Yep, it seems clear enough to me that - intentional or not - there is at least a little something of Andruil about Sera. Quite what that means and how it might manifest itself (if at all) in future games, who knows?

[AutumnWitch]

Yet something else....

 

When you take both Sera and Solas to the temple in the Forbidden Oasis when you are in the Temple Solas asks Sera what she is feeling. She replies "It's like I have been here before"  Then later on after Sera denies she is being "elfisih" Solas says "You are the farthest away from what you should be,"  I have no doubt Solas knows who she is really is.

 

Also this temple is called the Solasan Temple. Is it possible that perhaps in a different life both of them where there to set the wards in the temple originally as Solas is the only one who has an explanation for some of the stuff happening in the Temple?

[Fandango]

[Dayze]

Magic manifests in myriad ways, because it is tied to belief and he perceptions of the mage. The only reason that all of the mages in Dragon Age we have seen thus far use the same spells is that they have all received roughly the same training in either the Circles or by their Keeper. It's the rigid framework of that training which guides their magic into predictable forms, and allows them to do spells. However, hedge mages can manifest abilities that nobody has seen before because their perceptions of their power have not been limited by training. That's how Avvar shamans and Rivaini seers have powers that exist outside of commonly-held magical practice. The Saarebas' powers are also limited by how they are 'trained'. David Gaider has said in interviews that they can't do anything with their magic other than big, damaging explosions, which fits the way that they're treated. They're treated as dangerous objects, and thus their magic manifests as destructive.

 

Here's the interview where David Gaider talks about a lot of this stuff:

 

 

So if Sera, who has had no magical training at all and who fears magic, were to have some latent talent herself then it would manifest in a form she could best make sense of. However, her talent couldn't be too strong, or else she'd attract demons. Which is why it manifests in such a subtle way.

 

She's not completely uneducated (i.e. illiterate) but she's more on par with your regular Fereldan or Orlesian citizen than the entire rest of the cast is. She knows the chant of light, which corresponds to basic religious education that most everyone would get. She's read some books before, but is obviously not very well-read (and scoffs at academic knowledge in general). And both before and after she was taken in by that human noble she lived on the streets and had to fend for herself (the noble was already dying when she adopted sera, and the cookies conversation hints that Sera didn't spend much time with her). When she tells you where she was during the Blight she says she has vivid memories of trying to find food. She's probably had to live hand-to-mouth more than once in her life, and she's proud of her self-reliance.

 

She discriminates against Cole because he's something that's outside her experience. She literally refuses to talk to "it". She gets along alright with mages but constantly expresses a fear of magic. If you ally with the mages, she's unhappy, because she sees mages as scary and outside of her understanding of the world. She also expresses concern when a mage Inquisitor receives their specialization, telling them to "tone down the magic". It's an understandable view to have, and likely a very common one in Thedas.

 

No, because it's demanded by gameplay that everybody be roughly on par, balance-wise. That has nothing to do with the story. Also, Sera establishes early on that she taught herself how to shoot from a young age. She's been using that bow for most of her life. If nothing else, she's had a lot of practice. Also, interesting that you bring up Varric. Varric is very obviously not a fighter. He's a merchant from Kirkwall. He says himself that Bianca does most of the work for him. He hasn't spent most of his life running a quasi-guerilla organization like Sera has. He hasn't got the benefit of any sort of military training or magic. Are you going to argue that Varric is special too?

 

 

There's only so many ways you can illustrate a drawn bow, you know. They will all have a roughly triangular shape. Also, using art assets as fuel for theory is a bad idea because often the writers aren't in constant communication with the art department. So they can say, "hey, draw Sera a tarot card based on her cheeky, fun-loving personality" and the artist draws a thing. If you want evidence for theories then you should probably stick to stuff that's said in-game (and, no, those banters haven't convinced me either) and codex entries.

 

For example, people were going nuts over the female figure in the well of mythal's human ears until one of the devs pointed out on twitter that it was simply a design oversight. People are reading way too much into a theory that makes no sense from either a characterization or a storytelling perspective.

 

 

In regards to attracting demons, during the mission where you recruit the templars and have to face the envy demon.

 

When everyone else can hear him talking in their heads, all Sera can hear is the sounds of battle.

 

Then factor in when she's in the fade and she doesn't see anything, just little "nothings" whereas everyone else see's spider things.

 

Of course; maybe thats because her fears too complex to be boiled down to something as simplistic as "scary spider/cht'ulu" looking thing.  She's afraid of being nothing, of being just a common person caught in the web of the rich so she becomes a red jenny to challenge that but she's unwilling to see  herself as something more than just a common person so is unwilling to think of herself as being something more.

 

And not really afraid of anything else.

 

Might explain away why she shoots arrows in a way that seems like spirits see the fade or feels de ja vue.  She's mage who has subconsciously focused all of her power on being "normal" and having no connections to anything of note.  So she can't be or interact with anything magical.  

[rx00]

Sera is the Fool, DAI could be the prelude to Fool's Journey

Pity that the Fool never grows or advances in game......

[sky_captain]

I highly doubt that BW would pull the same twist twice in the same game.

 

The point about Solas offering to tutor Sera in magic was likely him being a troll, he is too dignified to resort to the crudeness that she resorts to on a regular basis so he spars with his intellect. Plus if she did hide the soul of an eleven god there would be no need for Solas to tutor her at all.

 

About the who bow staff thing. There is no indication that the staff that Dalish use was in any way a bow, she just calls it a bow because she is paranoid about being discovered and hunted.

 

The connection that Solas feels towards Sera is very likely related to his nature as a elven god. The codex at the temple of Mythal says that Fen'Harel would be best translated god of rebellion, and if there is one Sera is without any doubt is rebellious.

 

As far as her affinity for the bow is concerned, I'm a self taught guitarist, I play by ear, I can't read music and know little about music theory, that doesn't stop me from playing songs others have written or writing my own songs. My wife is a self taught pianist, though she was taught "properly" later she started out on her with just her mind, fingers, ears and heart and is darn good. As far as I know neither her or I are avatars of some ancient spirit, so it's not impossible that someone could have a natural knack and become exceptional at archery by solo practice.

 

The image of Sera's card is the most convincing piece of evidence presented. But what is missing in the analyses of the image is the fact that she is flipping the bird, and every time a Dalish PC mentions elven culture she disapproves. So if the images relationship to the god Andruil is intentional, which is likely, the most simple solution would that is symbolizes her rebellion against her elven heritage.

 

I do think that there is something exceptional about Sera, the dialogue really points to it, however as I said before I don't think that BW would pull the same twist that they did with Solas twice in the context of the same game.

[MrNose]

 

 

I highly doubt that BW would pull the same twist twice in the same game.

 

They did already. Flemeth/Mythal.

 

Dragon Age creators have a history of starting with a small concept (e.g. Templars vs. mages; political intrigue and spies; the significance of resurrection; the increasing shadow of the North) and expanding on its importance over time. Hell, if your Warden killed Leliana then Corypheus isn't even this game's only mysterious resurrection

 

Unless Sera's motivations were similar to Solas', having her be connected to Andruil would not be merely "repeating a twist", it would be reinterpreting it.

 

Solas is essentially the self-appointed messiah of the Elven people, and his claim to legitimacy largely rests on the fact that he is a god. His plot would get far more complicated if there was another god opposing his ideology. Why, they might even end up in a situation where a previously unknown hero (or maybe a known one, whatevs) would have to decide which of them to support, shaping the destiny of all of Thedas!

 

 

 

 

The connection that Solas feels towards Sera is very likely related to his nature as a elven god. The codex at the temple of Mythal says that Fen'Harel would be best translated god of rebellion, and if there is one Sera is without any doubt is rebellious.

 

Sera is rebellious towards everything Solas believes in. Gaspard was rebellious too, but I doubt that Solas felt a connection to him. Solas dislikes Sera's ideology so fiercely that -- in her romance quest -- he refuses to give the Inquisitor advice on how to show her feelings to Sera, and disapproves of the question (at least, he does with Lavellan), stating "she has turned her back on what we should be".

 

Her sort of rebellion is not anything that Solas would identify with.  

 

 

 

 I'm a self taught guitarist

 

Sera's affinity with the bow has never been particularly compelling to me, as far as it signifying anything (cf. the constant Deja Vu is a blatant examples of Chekov's Guns that are unfired by the end of the game). 

 

That said, unless you and your wife are now among the world's leading musicians and have a second prominent job (cf. Red Jenny), this isn't the same thing. The Inquisitor's companions are framed as being the best, and the fact that Sera is untrained isn't something that is simply brought up in the game, it's something that is brought up as a point of incredulity. The Inquisitor doesn't understand how Sera can do what she can do without training when, presumably, the Inquisitor would be familiar with the idea of people being self-taught or naturally talented at doing certain things. 

 

 

 

The image of Sera's card is the most convincing piece of evidence presented. But what is missing in the analyses of the image is the fact that she is flipping the bird, and every time a Dalish PC mentions elven culture she disapproves. So if the images relationship to the god Andruil is intentional, which is likely, the most simple solution would that is symbolizes her rebellion against her elven heritage.

 

 

I really love this symbolic "flipping off her heritage" interpretation, but...

 

 

"Here's an image of Sera subverting (but not in any way that's obvious) an image of Elven culture as a way of signifying her disdain for it" is, if anything, less likely than "here's a hint that signifies that something is going on with Sera, and also she's flipping the bird because she's crude."  

 

--------------------------------------

 

Let's also not forget: 

1) Her fascination with hunting dragons. Josephine says that she doesn't understand this, and both Josephine and Sera's dialogue highlight that she loves hunting them, but is actively unsure why. It's not that she's simply surprised that she enjoys hunting them, she's actively sheepish about it, and Sera is not a sheepish person:

 

[Dialogue After a Dragon Hunt]

Inquiz: "Is everyone alright?"
Sera: "YEAH!"

Sera: "...I mean, yeah, I'm alive."

Sera: "So... so... alive."

 

Iron Bull also seems pretty stoked for Dragon Fights, but if anything, the differences in the scale of their reactions to dragon hunting serves to highlight just how strong Sera's love for them is.

 

 

2) A connection to Andruil is also one of the few in-story explanations for why Sera and Solas are physically larger than every other elf in the game, including the Inquisitor. 

 

----

 

There is definitely something significant about Sera, as you've said, there's too much in the dialogue for there not to be. As we have already seen BioWare use the "this person is connected to an Elven God" twist twice in one game, and we know that BioWare is going to continue to develop the Elven Gods plot, Sera being related to Andruil remains at as likely as any alternate explanation I can see, if not more likely. 

[King Cousland]

A more tenuous connection, I admit, but has it also been pointed out that Andruil took a mortal woman as a lover and later elevated her to godhood as Gilan'nain?

 

Given Sera's homosexuality, this seems like something else she has in common with Andruil. 

 

Though, assuming Solas knew who she really is, why didn't he take her power along with Flemeth's? Or perhaps he has already and that's why she's an amnesiac?

[jlb524]

I don't really believe this god stuff she still Jenny from the Block.

[sky_captain]

accidental post, darn phone.

[sky_captain]

 

They did already. Flemeth/Mythal.

 

Dragon Age creators have a history of starting with a small concept (e.g. Templars vs. mages; political intrigue and spies; the significance of resurrection; the increasing shadow of the North) and expanding on its importance over time. Hell, if your Warden killed Leliana then Corypheus isn't even this game's only mysterious resurrection

 

 

First off Flemeth wasn't a twist, we've known since Origins that she was more that your garden variety abomination, then Morrigan spelled that fact out for us in Witch Hunt, so reveling her to be an eleven god didn't do anything to mess with our preconceptions of who people are, so it was a revel but not a twist. 

 

The resurrection of Corypheus was never a mystery to the player, it was nakedly obvious in Legacy that he survived by passing his conciseness to whatever warden that accompanied you with the logical answer being that this was accomplished through the blight. So the only mysterious  resurrection was the possible resurrection of Leliana. Certain social and political themes remaining constant are only evidence of the games taking place in a similar geographical location and time period. So my doubt about BW recycling plot the same plot twist is just as valid. 

 

 

Sera is rebellious towards everything Solas believes in. Gaspard was rebellious too, but I doubt that Solas felt a connection to him. Solas dislikes Sera's ideology so fiercely that -- in her romance quest -- he refuses to give the Inquisitor advice on how to show her feelings to Sera, and disapproves of the question (at least, he does with Lavellan), stating "she has turned her back on what we should be".

 

Her sort of rebellion is not anything that Solas would identify with.  

 

You can respect a persons aptitude without liking the way they use it. Sera is rebellious, which would appeal to a god of rebellion and lead to him wanting to help guide that rebellion down a path that he sees as productive.  Sorry if I didn't communicate that very in my first post. Gaspard is power hungry, Sera isn't, comparing their rebelliousness is like comparing a punk to a stock broker, the stock broker might break laws to get what he wants, the punk might break laws to "stick it to the man," both have broken laws, but for very different reasons, and society would generally categorize the broker as greedy and the punk as rebellious

 

 

 

That said, unless you and your wife are now among the world's leading musicians and have a second prominent job (cf. Red Jenny), this isn't the same thing. The Inquisitor's companions are framed as being the best, and the fact that Sera is untrained isn't something that is simply brought up in the game, it's something that is brought up as a point of incredulity. The Inquisitor doesn't understand how Sera can do what she can do without training when, presumably, the Inquisitor would be familiar with the idea of people being self-taught or naturally talented at doing certain things. 

Think of ebay, you want something, someone has said something they want to sell, ebay helps you two connect, you both get what you want, Red Jenny is a similar type of network, Sera doesn't run and isn't in charge of Red Jenny she merely uses it well, so I not sure what relevance that point has on the topic. Many people don't understand people who are self-taught, from personal experience many insist that you simply "have" to have been trained by someone and so the point that some characters are amazed that she could have been self taught and achieved the level of skill that she has is something that I have experienced IRL, and the fact that the inquisitor can be taught the same skills by a trainer show that the skills that she has, while exceptional, are in no way unique.

 

As far as her card goes you haven't brought anything that needs responding to, it's all in how you choose to interpenetrate it.

Modifié par sky_captain, 08 février 2015 - 03:18 .

[jellobell]

A more tenuous connection, I admit, but has it also been pointed out that Andruil took a mortal woman as a lover and later elevated her to godhood as Gilan'nain?

 

Given Sera's homosexuality, this seems like something else she has in common with Andruil. 

Actually, there's no indication that Andruil and Ghilan'nain were lovers. In fact, one of the codex entries in the temple of Mythal shows that the real reason Ghilan'nain was given Apotheosis was because she kept making monsters and the gods wanted her to cut it out.

 

The only evidence of Andruil's sexual orientation is the tale where she binds the Dread Wolf to a tree and tells him that he will serve her in bed for the next year as punishment for hunting the halla without her blessing. You can read it here.

[pprincess50]

Most of the speculation here is that Sera IS Andruil, but I find another idea interesting that sashimi-taco posed on reddit. That what Sera is, or HAS, is Andruil's eluvian key.

This stems off the voices codex from the Fade, of the silenced gods waiting behind a dark mirror. The Well of Sorrows being Mythal's key is only part of it, the truth is whoever takes the Well then becomes the key. This makes a lot more sense than trying to fit every aspect of Sera's personality with Andruil, she may simply just have the key or be the key. She may not YET be a "servant" of Andruil the way that Herald or Morrigan is a servant of MYthal.

sashimi-taco also proposes that Sandal has or is June's eluvian key (god of the Craft). Sandal was found in the Deep Roads next to red lyrium. Sandal and Sera are both looters, Sandal may have got or become June's key while in the Deep Roads. Sera could have got Andruil's either as a child or she might have looted it unknowingly. Sandal sells his loot and crafts, Sera keeps or consumes (wine) her loot. Sandal has a lot of experiences that may suggest he has something of a god key, such as that unexplained moment he has in Dragon Age 2 in the Deep Roads covered in blood, with frozen demons all around him and he says "Not Enchantment."

Anyway, this theory is interesting and far simpler than trying to fit Sera's personality into a god mode. Perhaps by having or being a key, Sera and maybe Sandal have some rudimentary talents. The talent that the servant of Mythal has is elven language and mysticism. June's is a crafting ability. Andruil's is bow skill.

[Fandango]

Most of the speculation here is that Sera IS Andruil, but I find another idea interesting that sashimi-taco posed on reddit. That what Sera is, or HAS, is Andruil's eluvian key.

This stems off the voices codex from the Fade, of the silenced gods waiting behind a dark mirror. The Well of Sorrows being Mythal's key is only part of it, the truth is whoever takes the Well then becomes the key. This makes a lot more sense than trying to fit every aspect of Sera's personality with Andruil, she may simply just have the key or be the key. She may not YET be a "servant" of Andruil the way that Herald or Morrigan is a servant of MYthal.

sashimi-taco also proposes that Sandal has or is June's eluvian key (god of the Craft). Sandal was found in the Deep Roads next to red lyrium. Sandal and Sera are both looters, Sandal may have got or become June's key while in the Deep Roads. Sera could have got Andruil's either as a child or she might have looted it unknowingly. Sandal sells his loot and crafts, Sera keeps or consumes (wine) her loot. Sandal has a lot of experiences that may suggest he has something of a god key, such as that unexplained moment he has in Dragon Age 2 in the Deep Roads covered in blood, with frozen demons all around him and he says "Not Enchantment."

Anyway, this theory is interesting and far simpler than trying to fit Sera's personality into a god mode. Perhaps by having or being a key, Sera and maybe Sandal have some rudimentary talents. The talent that the servant of Mythal has is elven language and mysticism. June's is a crafting ability. Andruil's is bow skill.

Could you link the to discussion please pprincess50?

[pprincess50]

Red Lyrium, eluvians as keys, Whispers in the Fade text

http://www.reddit.co...think_ive_gone/

Scroll down for the Sera discussion

http://www.reddit.co..._tom_and_found/

A bit more

http://www.reddit.co...n_age_with_big/

These are summaries of YouTube vids she did, those are posted in the links above.

[MrNose]

Actually, there's no indication that Andruil and Ghilan'nain were lovers. In fact, one of the codex entries in the temple of Mythal shows that the real reason Ghilan'nain was given Apotheosis was because she kept making monsters and the gods wanted her to cut it out.

 

The only evidence of Andruil's sexual orientation is the tale where she binds the Dread Wolf to a tree and tells him that he will serve her in bed for the next year as punishment for hunting the halla without her blessing. You can read it here.

 

We don''t know that this is the "real reason", because the elven lore we find got so much **** about Fen'Harel wrong, we can't assume it's reliable.

 

The following are the provenances for three codex entries gained from the temple, including the one you're referencing:

 

1) "The Ascension of Ghilan'nain": —Story of the elven god Ghilan'nain, author unknown

2) "Twins in Shadow": — From A Treaty on the Pagan and Heretical Customs of the Elven, by Senallen Tavernier of the University of Orlais, commissioned by Empress Celene.

3) "Elven God Andruil": —Translated from ancient elven found in the Arbor Wilds, source unverified

 

Only the second and third items are given verifiable provenance. The second item is modern, and establishes that it lacks authority within its text, so from it we learn little. The third item is dated as "ancient", so it is an authoritative example of ancient Elven belief. The authority of that belief is somewhat questionable, but it is almost certainly more accurate than modern belief. 

 

The first item, however, has no provenance to it whatsoever. No location where it was found, no date, no author. Evidence implies, but does not guarantee, that the entry was written by a non-Elf (due to the reference to "the Elven god"). Given that the dialect of the entry itself appears Elven (e.g. "kept herself apart from the people"), it is likely the direct reproduction of an Elven story told after the fall of Arlathan and the dissolution of a particularly elven material culture. If it was ancient, it would be marked as a translation like item 3 is.

 

Felassan's story to Briala is similarly non-authoritative, although I do not think you are contending that it should be taken as gospel. Felassan frames the story as "an old story", not a history. When Briala responds to the story by saying "I am not a god", Felassan states "that is for the stories to decide"; in other words, immediately after telling this story, he makes a statement about how stories do not necessarily reflect what actually happened. This is also a theme in DA:I. 

[jellobell]

We don''t know that this is the "real reason", because the elven lore we find got so much **** about Fen'Harel wrong, we can't assume it's reliable.

 

The following are the provenances for three codex entries gained from the temple, including the one you're referencing:

 

1) "The Ascension of Ghilan'nain": —Story of the elven god Ghilan'nain, author unknown

2) "Twins in Shadow": — From A Treaty on the Pagan and Heretical Customs of the Elven, by Senallen Tavernier of the University of Orlais, commissioned by Empress Celene.

3) "Elven God Andruil": —Translated from ancient elven found in the Arbor Wilds, source unverified

 

Only the second and third items are given verifiable provenance. The second item is modern, and establishes that it lacks authority within its text, so from it we learn little. The third item is dated as "ancient", so it is an authoritative example of ancient Elven belief. The authority of that belief is somewhat questionable, but it is almost certainly more accurate than modern belief. 

 

The first item, however, has no provenance to it whatsoever. No location where it was found, no date, no author. Evidence implies, but does not guarantee, that the entry was written by a non-Elf (due to the reference to "the Elven god"). Given that the dialect of the entry itself appears Elven (e.g. "kept herself apart from the people"), it is likely the direct reproduction of an Elven story told after the fall of Arlathan and the dissolution of a particularly elven material culture. If it was ancient, it would be marked as a translation like item 3 is.

 

Felassan's story to Briala is similarly non-authoritative, although I do not think you are contending that it should be taken as gospel. Felassan frames the story as "an old story", not a history. When Briala responds to the story by saying "I am not a god", Felassan states "that is for the stories to decide"; in other words, immediately after telling this story, he makes a statement about how stories do not necessarily reflect what actually happened. This is also a theme in DA:I. 

I realize that there's no provenance, but we have to work with what we're given. We don't exactly have the luxury of typical scholarly rigor, since whatever fragments we see are expressly given to us by Bioware.

 

However, I'm inclined to take both Felassan's story and the legend we find in the Temple of Mythal more seriously than the scrap of myth of Ghilan'nain that the Dalish have passed down. The first because it comes from an ancient elf (more of an authority than modern Dalish). The second because Bioware obviously meant for the codex entries in the Temple of Mythal to complicate what we thought we knew about the elves and their gods, regardless of where these codex entries came from. For example, the entry about Fen'harel as the "rebel" god. That's not an elven text but (iirc) an Orlesian one. However it seems to be much more accurate than the Dalish's stories of Fen'harel, judging from Solas's character.

 

Added to the fact that the original story of Ghilan'nain also does not imply that Andruil and Ghilan'nain were lovers (and the subsequent temple of mythal story makes this even more unlikely) and my original point stands. The only indications of Andruil's sexuality that we've ever gotten is that one tale from Felassan, and that's it. Hardly evidence for any connection between Sera and Andruil.

[MrNose]

Sera doesn't run and isn't in charge of Red Jenny she merely uses it well, so I not sure what relevance that point has on the topic. Many people don't understand people who are self-taught, from personal experience many insist that you simply "have" to have been trained by someone and so the point that some characters are amazed that she could have been self taught and achieved the level of skill that she has is something that I have experienced IRL, and the fact that the inquisitor can be taught the same skills by a trainer show that the skills that she has, while exceptional, are in no way unique.

 

 

Sera is the Red Jenny of Orlais. There are friends, and then there are actual Red Jennies, e.g. Sera, Charade, etc. That Sera has power in the organization is indicated within party banter. Furthermore, party banter also indicates the same sort of disbelief that she's running this organization (particularly from Varric) as we get about her skills with a bow.

 

Sera is batman without having trained to be batman. A world class fighter (with apparently self-taught alchemical skills) who is at the centre of the Red Jenny network of the most important city in Thedas. Is it feasible that she's just really gifted? Sure. But the game makes a point of telling us to doubt the feasibility of it. Is it feasible that people who question her lack of training just aren't used to that? Maybe, but given their environment, one would assume that they would be aware if her self-taught skills with a bow were as common as being a self-taught musician. 

 

The idea that Sera is not unique because other people are Tempest rogues is inapt. The Inquisitor needs to use the resources of the inquisition to hire a world class trainer to teach specialist level skills. Sera just knows them; this reinforces her uniqueness, it does not attenuate it. Again, it's a matter of scale. Sera may not be divine, but she is certainly unique.