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[MrNose]

*snip*

Hardly evidence for any connection between Sera and Andruil.

 

Just to be clear, I was reacting to the statement regarding "the real reason", not disputing that Andruil and Sera are not tied together by sexual-orientation. I agreed with your overall point, just not that part.

 

You're right that we don't have the luxury of scholarly rigor, but BioWare did put provenance on these codex entries, which means that they think provenance matters. I find that the stuff written by scholars is particularly useful precisely because it is presented as scholarly analysis, and so we can gain more from it than we can from a lot of "primary source material."

 

I don't think that an unsourced, probably human-written document about Ghilan'nain has any particular reason to be more accurate than a Dalish myth. Chantry scholarship goes out of its way to vilify non-Chantry beliefs as demonic. Tevinter got a bunch of their culture from the ancient elves, and did their best to erase that that's where it came from. Because of this, I see a probably human-written Ghilan'nain document as probably being more like one-sided anti-elven propaganda than "the true story" that we probably got from the primary-sourced Andruil entry, just like Dalish belief is essentially based on pro-elven propaganda.  

 

BioWare used the ToM to confuse us by contradicting we already thought was true, but that doesn't mean that their contradictions were also true. Wheels within wheels! 

[jellobell]

Just to be clear, I was reacting to the statement regarding "the real reason", not disputing that Andruil and Sera are not tied together by sexual-orientation. I agreed with your overall point, just not that part.

Ahhh, I see where you're coming from. You're right, I should have been more precise in my wording.

 

You're right that we don't have the luxury of scholarly rigor, but BioWare did put provenance on these codex entries, which means that they think provenance matters. I find that the stuff written by scholars is particularly useful precisely because it is presented as scholarly analysis, and so we can gain more from it than we can from a lot of "primary source material."

 

I don't think that an unsourced, probably human-written document about Ghilan'nain has any particular reason to be more accurate than a Dalish myth. Chantry scholarship goes out of its way to vilify non-Chantry beliefs as demonic. Tevinter got a bunch of their culture from the ancient elves, and did their best to erase that that's where it came from. Because of this, I see a probably human-written Ghilan'nain document as probably being more like one-sided anti-elven propaganda than "the true story" that we probably got from the primary-sourced Andruil entry, just like Dalish belief is essentially based on pro-elven propaganda.  

 

BioWare used the ToM to confuse us by contradicting we already thought was true, but that doesn't mean that their contradictions were also true. Wheels within wheels! 

I mostly agree, however I have a feeling that many of the scholarly sources and non-dalish texts relating to Dalish myth are going to be more accurate than the stories that come from the Dalish themselves. True, there is the distinct possibility that some of it is propaganda. However, the Dalish also have a vested interest in casting the Creators in a positive light. The Dalish-derived myth of Ghilan'nain was notably more complimentary than the one found in the Temple of Mythal. Similarly, the myths surrounding Andruil paint her as a benevolent goddess of the hunt, while Solas's account of her was much darker. It's the same with Falon'din. If we assume that Solas is both telling the truth and not mistaken (and given who he is he's probably the only authority we have on any of this), then the trend is towards the Dalish romanticizing their gods in myth. The exception being Fen'harel, who was demonized according to the scholarly sources, a conclusion which seems to be supported by Solas's character.

 

In fact, looking over the wiki again, it looks like pretty much all of the codex entries on the Dalish and their mythology comes from a single source: Keeper Gisharel. So perhaps these tales had been altered a bit by the Keeper to paint a more complimentary picture of the Creators. Or perhaps these are only one possible version of the stories. Given how generally fragmented the Dalish are, I wouldn't be surprised if each clan had their own variations on the myths.

 

On the other hand, the scholarly sources seem to be written using a number of primary sources, and not all of them Dalish. In addition, I think it's less likely that Dalish myths would be altered in the name of propaganda, rather than historical accounts which are more directly tied to political clashes between humans and Elves, such as accounts of Red Crossing and the fall of the Dales.

[esh1996]

I subscribe to the Sera=Andruil theory, I think it has indisputable evidence supporting it. The tarot card seals it for me, the tarot cards are meant to reflect the character's personality and character through imagery, her posing like that is like a man posing like this:
http://www.clker.com...n the Cross.svg
^ if a man was posing like that in their Tarot card then you would safely say that they're jesus. And so Sera posing as she does is the closest thing to evidence we will get short of a conformation tweet from a writer.
I give the theory a 98% validity rating. Even higher than R+L=J theory, which I give a 95% validity rating, even after this Easter egg in GoT season 1:
http://si.wsj.net/pu...50117023759.jpg

Anyway, back to the theory, I'd like to first address many people's points which go along the lines of: 'there is no way Bioware would give such an important role to a non-essential/mandatory follower', need I remind you that depending on your world save many important characters might be dead: Hero of Ferelden, Hawke, Alistair (King/Warden/dead), Loghain, Stroud, Fiona (the only grey warden ever to reverse the blight effect on her might be dead) and most importantly Kieran might never of existed in some world saves. Are you telling me that these characters will not be important in the future, because there is the possibility that they might be dead in some people's world saves? They're likely to have vital roles in the future, and their absence will be just as important in the worlds where they're dead. In the worst case scenario Sera is still alive, yes she hasn't joined the inquisition but she isn't dead and so if she is Andruil then she will definitely be in future games, either as a follower again or as a non-follower character.

Also I'd like your opinions on this:
https://m.youtube.co...h?v=Eh77xvlDSTI
In this video (June 12th 2014), there are shots introducing Sera with her walking in the Exalted Plains, mourning the death of an elf no less, then fighting undead (always associated with magic/fade rift missions) and also being very serious, and if there is one thing which Sera isn't it is serious. I can recognise 99% of scenes from all the trailers past March 2014, and those scenes which I don't immediately recognise I can easily draw parallels to events in the game (Blackwall fighting soldiers in the Hinterlands like in the game and The Iron Bull fighting Venatori in the Storm Coast like in the game ex...). Except this! This is obviously content cut from the final game (whether held back for DLC or not we don't know), and after learning about Sera's personality these events seem so incredibly out of character it really makes me wonder...
The lack of vallaslin means that the dead elf isn't Dalish, meaning this isn't just Sera mourning the death of an innocent being stomped on by the big Orlesians (which would make a little bit of sense). Instead he's bald (like Solas if that might mean anything) and seems to carry either a sword or knife on his belt (so isn't a Mage) and wears armour, not green enough to be Dalish armour but does have an elfy look to it, city elves don't have their own armour they're servants and the fact he clearly isn't a Mage must mean there was something special about him...
Is he an accent elf from the temple of Mythal (even though Abelas does have a Vellaslin, maybe some don't)? Is he a Red Jenny? What is his relation to Sera?

I do think that this is content which was cut from the game, because Sera does have the fewest Inner Circle quests out of all of the followers/advisors. If you don't romance her and if you ignore her recruiting quest she only has one, the painfully short Vershal March quest which is only accessible through the war table operations so it might easily be missed by some players. This makes me think that this content was her big Inner Circle quest which might have revealed something big, possibly proving or debunking our theory? So I ask the question why was it cut?
There are many possibilities which I'm going to list below:
A) maybe this was a mission (probably after the temple of Mythal) which reveals Sera's real identity as Andruil, but the main story writers had it cut because they wanted Solas' reveal as Fen'Harel to have a bigger impact on the players, believing his reveal after Sera's reveal would loose its impact (which it would).
or maybe this was a mission which revealed the truth about Sera's past, what ever that might be, but at a point during the creative process they thought that it would be an awesome and ironic twist that Sera should be an elven God like Solas. And then removed the mission which revealed Sera's past and instead planted a handful of Easter egg clues (which we've found) to tease the possibility that Sera=Andruil in the game before confirming it in either DLC or a future title. Because unless the content was truly awful I cant see why it would be cut, unless they decided to change something about her character...
or C) I'm just nerding out and over thinking the smallest detail, and urgently need help?

Respond with your opinions below, or recommend a mental health institute because I might desperately need help...

[esh1996]

I'm bumping this thread so my post ^ gets seen... It was my first post and I had to wait almost 48 hours for approval...

[BioWareM0d13]

Sera is Sera.

 

Solas turning out to be the Dread Wolf was an epic twist, but having every elf character turn out to be some old elven god in disguise would lessen the impact of Solas' reveal. I can understand the appeal behind some of the fan speculation, but I think it is very unlikely that the writers intended for Sera to be anything other than ordinary elf from the slums. 

[esh1996]

Sera is Sera.
 
Solas turning out to be the Dread Wolf was an epic twist, but having every elf character turn out to be some old elven god in disguise would lessen the impact of Solas' reveal. I can understand the appeal behind some of the fan speculation, but I think it is very unlikely that the writers intended for Sera to be anything other than ordinary elf from the slums.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think even you can deny the 'evidence' we've collected... Some of it it just too perfect not to be proof. And if the DA story does cover the elven pantheon in the future wouldn't it be better if at least some of them we recognise. So if the story eventually has us choose between some of them for what ever reason we're chosen between friends, not characters we've just met. Fantasy literature (all literature really) is basically one coincidence after another... I wouldn't be suprised if this is the case.

[Fandango]

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think even you can deny the 'evidence' we've collected... Some of it it just too perfect not to be proof. And if the DA story does cover the elven pantheon in the future wouldn't it be better if at least some of them we recognise. So if the story eventually has us choose between some of them for what ever reason we're chosen between friends, not characters we've just met. Fantasy literature (all literature really) is basically one coincidence after another... I wouldn't be suprised if this is the case.

I feel the same way esh1996. Given that none of this stuff occurred to me during my first (and only) jaunt through the game, I'm going to be paying special attention to Sera during my second. Besides, whatever else she turns out to be, I think it fair to say that Sera is by no means an 'ordinary' elf. Any word on when the DLC is coming to PS4?

[esh1996]

Any word on when the DLC is coming to PS4?

Yeah, in May... Bioware did f*cked up. No one will bother playing DA:I after the Witcher 3 comes out so they will likely sell very few copies of the DLC on PS4.

[Kantr]

Yeah, in May... Bioware did f*cked up. No one will bother playing DA:I after the Witcher 3 comes out so they will likely sell very few copies of the DLC on PS4.

Liking DA:I doesnt by extension mean they will like The Witcher 3

[esh1996]

Liking DA:I doesnt by extension mean they will like The Witcher 3

I think it's safe to assume most DA fans are also RPG fans, and so again it's safe to assume that most RPG fans will likely be playing the Witcher 3 in May.

[Sai0]

This adds up to the theory, also some interesting observations from comment section.

[VorexRyder]

The painted box you give the Red Jennies in DA:O acted like the Vir'Abelasan/Well of Sorrows but for Andruil. Sera mentions playing with it, and you give it to them like ten years ago. When Sera was still growing up.

[Carmen_Willow]

I sure hope the hypothesis is wrong. To have her show up in a DLC or an add-on as a major player with plot armor will be very painful for me.

[Serelir]

In fact, looking over the wiki again, it looks like pretty much all of the codex entries on the Dalish and their mythology comes from a single source: Keeper Gisharel. So perhaps these tales had been altered a bit by the Keeper to paint a more complimentary picture of the Creators. Or perhaps these are only one possible version of the stories. Given how generally fragmented the Dalish are, I wouldn't be surprised if each clan had their own variations on the myths.

 

There's this:

 

These appear to be the scribbled notes of a scholar named Erwine Cavy. The elements have ruined most of the writing:

 

...ow many times have I sought information on the Dalish only to find that it is, once again, a tale told by "Keeper Gisharel of the Ralaferin clan"? We can't have one Keeper from years ago be our sole source of knowledge on the Dalish. There must be other voices in the Dalish clans. Other perspectives that...

 

 

I find myself agreeing with Carmen_Willow that I'd rather not have to interact with Sera in another game, but the association of Sera with Andruil is intriguing and would go a long way to explaining her insane behavior.

[ThePhoenixKing]

I sure hope the hypothesis is wrong. To have her show up in a DLC or an add-on as a major player with plot armor will be very painful for me.

 

Agreed.

 

That said, if Sera really is God (or at least, a god), then maybe Unintelligent Design has the right idea after all?

[Inverse_Twilight]

I don't subscribe to the 'Sera is Andruil' theory. I would rather have Sera just be Sera: a quirky elven archer who stole my Inquisitor's heart.

[Qun00]

Yes, every named elf in the game must be an elven god because Solas is one.

[Patchwork]

Sera is Andruil really seems a lot like Induction Theory to me, players wanting there to be more to something than there actually is.

 

At most I'd say Sera is a low level mage, not enough power to be noticeable but enough to be aware of Fade stuff and unintentionally effect things around her like arrows going where she thinks they should, physics be damned.  

[Sah291]

I think, she may or may not be more than she appears...but as a character, she definitely seems to be cut from the same sort of archetype as Andruil...so the fact that she has similarities or seems to reflect the spirit of Andruil is probably intentional on the part of the writers.

[Reznore57]

I think, she may or may not be more than she appears...but as a character, she definitely seems to be cut from the same sort of archetype as Andruil...so the fact that she has similarities or seems to reflect the spirit of Andruil is probably intentional on the part of the writers.

 

I'm not seeing the Andruil archetype in Sera at all.

Andruil was a Goddess of the Hunt and Sacrifice ....Sera likes to do pranks.Sera avoid killing people , she basically tells you it's not worth it and that's not what she's about.I can't imagine Sera hunting anything , she would loose patience pretty quickly .

Sacrifice isn't really her thing either , she's pretty disgusted about Briala sacrificing her own people.

 

Also Andruil went into the Void to chase after something , Sera is freaked out by anything weird .

 

I mean they are elven female with a bow.And that's it.

[Rabastan]

I kind of like this theory though I lean more against the fact that Sera is just Sera for now. I don't mind, I like her the way she is. If there is something that special about her ? Sure, why not..

 

I think she might have some magical ability as somewhat suggested by the banter between both Cole and Solas, but that might be all there is. Perhaps she is so adamantly against magic because it already has manifested and it scared her ? The "I can't remember / don't want to talk about it" act (to me at least) suggests so if this is the case.

 

And considering her personality I wouldn't be surprised if she was just trying to suppress things so there wouldn't be any chance of her ending up in a circle; she enjoys her freedom immensely, can you imagine her being open to an idea of being locked up in a tower for god knows how long ? Especially as she wants the good things in her life remain the same, always. Maybe hiding a thing like that just seems easier for her.

Plus I get the feeling that she's not as confident as she may seem to be, ending up in a circle could mean a harrowing that goes wrong for her and avoiding her ability seems like an easier way to not be possessed (which in the circle would mean sacrificing her). 

 

Or maybe both her parents were apostates who got possessed ? That would be traumatic for a child and maybe she fears it'll happen to her also if there is even a hint of magic in her ? I mean, who isn't worried about turning into their parents at some point ? I know it's a lot of what if's, but there isn't really anything concrete to go with, yet at least.

 

This is turning out to be a mess of a post, but whatever, it's noon and I haven't had my first proper cup of coffee. Two more things that came to mind when reading this topic:

 

The tarot card: Could be that she is the opposite of Andruil ? You know, holding the bow and arrow behind her versus Andruil holding them in front of her. Grasping, I know.

The second thing is that ever since finishing the game I jotted Solas saying that they are not so different down as more like him comparing the two since they are both tricksters. Maybe if she were more like him, maybe prone to make same type of mistakes as well, it might bring him some solace...

Huehuehue, I terribly need that coffee now..

[NWN-Ming-Ming]

I really like Sera and I was very skeptical of this theory at first. 

 

As I have read deeper into the presented material, it's becoming increasingly difficult to not admit there are some extremely hinky details that make very strong connections between Sera and Andruil.  The visual similarities between Sera's Tarot Cards and Andruil's Symbols are too big to ignore.

 

However I am not entirely convinced Sera is in the exact same situation as Solas, but rather I suspect a direct hand of influence in some way, shape, or form.  It's possible there's a sleeping goddess in her, but it's just as possible that Sera's being unconsciously influenced by an artifact, a mark, what-have-you. 

 

It makes me sad though for my Elven Inkie if Sera is possessed by Andruil as I romanced her as well as Solas, and if I end up abandoned by my two pointy-eared lovers, I'm gonna feel so very alone.  >_<

[The_Shade]

I not sure but, I find it interesting that Solas and Sera disagree on so much yet have agree on topics with 

such significant historical significance. For example, if you decide not to the use the Well of Sorrows (letting

Morrigan use it instead) the only two companions who actually approve are Solas and Sera. In similar vein, if you declare that the Inquisition is fighting for faith (the Chantry) rather than order, only Solas and Sera disapprove. 

 

This may seem trivial however, perhaps subconsciously Sera is aware as Solas is that Mythal actually exists. 

Due to her apparent feud and battle against Mythal this could also explain why she is the only companion to approve destroying the well should you suggest it. The Elven Gods may also be aware that the Maker doesn't exist, hence their disapproval. 

 

This may be a stretch but I think this is what Sandal was alluding too in Dragon Age 2. 'Everyone will be as

they were' is a reference to the rise of the Elven Pantheon and 'when he rises, everyone will see' is a Sandal 

referring to Solas achieving what he desires, becoming a God once more. 

[Sabriel.]

Sera disapproves of using it because it's called "The Well ofSorrows." The fact that nothing good will come out of using it is right there in the title. If your Inquisitor takes it she thinks you're really stupid (as she chews you out for later). And also believes that everything in the temple was demons, so of course she approves of destroying it. It's more magical demony weirdness that scares her.
She disapproves of declaring for faith because as she says in Haven, "believing too hard" is what got everyone into the Conclave situation into the first place. Also because shouting from the heavens that you're "important" makes you one of the big people she hates who can easily stomp on little people and get away with it. She believes in Andraste herself but clearly has problems with the organized religion part.
 
I find the Sera=Andruil theory just as likely as the Solas=Shartan theory. Proponents of each have a single piece of "evidence" they point to plus a lot of conjecture (Sera's tarot card! plus Voidsomethingsomething! Solas and Shartan are both bald!!! plus rebellion!) Sera is at most a mage who repressed her magical talents early on due to her own innate fears and channeled them into her archery abilities for survival.
 
Solas' secret identity improves his character by a mile, and gives everything he says needed context. Sera being Andruil does not do this.

[The_Shade]

Sera disapproves of using it because it's called "The Well ofSorrows." The fact that nothing good will come out of using it is right there in the title. If your Inquisitor takes it she thinks you're really stupid (as she chews you out for later). And also believes that everything in the temple was demons, so of course she approves of destroying it. It's more magical demony weirdness that scares her.
She disapproves of declaring for faith because as she says in Haven, "believing too hard" is what got everyone into the Conclave situation into the first place. Also because shouting from the heavens that you're "important" makes you one of the big people she hates who can easily stomp on little people and get away with it. She believes in Andraste herself but clearly has problems with the organized religion part.
 
I find the Sera=Andruil theory just as likely as the Solas=Shartan theory. Proponents of each have a single piece of "evidence" they point to plus a lot of conjecture (Sera's tarot card! plus Voidsomethingsomething! Solas and Shartan are both bald!!! plus rebellion!) Sera is at most a mage who repressed her magical talents early on due to her own innate fears and channeled them into her archery abilities for survival.
 
Solas' secret identity improves his character by a mile, and gives everything he says needed context. Sera being Andruil does not do this.

 

Yeah, you could be right. Interesting either way XD