233 réponses à ce sujet

[b09boy]

Not rly beside the point given that pretty much this is what we are talking about.

 

You're the only one who's been discussing supposed other games which have done this.

 

Hero of neverwinter, Knight captain , Bhaalspawn ,The Nameless one... 

 

Hero of Neverwinter's story was ended.  They abandoned Neverwinter after Aribeth was executed.  I have no idea who the Knight Captain is supposed to be.  The Bhaalspawn never received a sequel (after their series of sequels) and their story was concluded.  Same with the Nameless One.

 

The only character I can recall off the top of my head which has done this is Revan, and there was a TON of discontent about it.

[Ascendra]

You're the only one who's been discussing supposed other games which have done this.


Hero of Neverwinter's story was ended. They abandoned Neverwinter after Aribeth was executed. I have no idea who the Knight Captain is supposed to be. The Bhaalspawn never received a sequel (after their series of sequels) and their story was concluded. Same with the Nameless One.

The only character I can recall off the top of my head which has done this is Revan, and there was a TON of discontent about it.

Knight Captain is the protagonist of NWN2, the story goes on to the expansion - The Mask of the Betrayer - with high level and everything. It was very nicely done. But its Obsidian not Bioware.

There is another character that they treated poorly in SWTOR - the Exile, she is dead there. Shes from KOTOR2 which is also Obsidian.

[b09boy]

@b09boy
They are not going to make a silent protagonist because they have already chosen their direction and it is called 'voiced protagonist'.

 Stubbornness is a poor reason.  I do not accept that reason.  It might be a, or the, reason they do not do this, but I find it unacceptable regardless.

 

And they are not going to create new skill trees just for a redundant character from a five year old game because they have budget limit and they want to spend the money on something else - like new adventures with a new protagonist.

 

Let's not pretend that this would be some throwaway DLC which would make any return.  In fact, this is precisely the reason they SHOULD be doing it.  The Warden is bank for them.  It would be foolish to drop the character because, handled right, they could easily make them money.

[TheKomandorShepard]

You're the only one who's been discussing supposed other games which have done this.

 

 

Hero of Neverwinter's story was ended.  They abandoned Neverwinter after Aribeth was executed.  I have no idea who the Knight Captain is supposed to be.  The Bhaalspawn never received a sequel (after their series of sequels) and their story was concluded.  Same with the Nameless One.

 

The only character I can recall off the top of my head which has done this is Revan, and there was a TON of discontent about it.

I pointed examples of what you said is impossible.

 

Not rly no more than warden story they went do their stuff we never see how their story continued.Hero of Nwn 2.Bhaalspawn never recived continuation of their story (same for the warden)but pretty much universe goes one (same universe that neverwinter nights take place and a lot other games there are even some references) and from what i remember PT is as well in same setting there is even reference in bg 2 to 1 of Nameless One companions. 

[b09boy]

Knight Captain is the protagonist of NWN2, the story goes on to the expansion - The Mask of the Betrayer - with high level and everything. It was very nicely done. But its Obsidian not Bioware.

There is another character that they treated poorly in SWTOR - the Exile, she is dead there. Shes from KOTOR2 which is also Obsidian.

Riiiiight.  It's been awhile.  The Knight Captain's story had a sequel to it as well, no?  And then...not another one.  So...yeah.

 

And yeah, the Exile...  Ugh.  I'd rather avoid that topic.  I find it rather disgusting.

[Former_Fiend]

No, of course I will not consider it caving to the fans. I will think of it as: they thought about a good story to tell, thought about bringing back the warden and managed to fit the warden into the current state of things. I will always think of it as their own decision which fits their narrative.

Im in no way against bringing the warden back. Im simply thinking that it is impossible in a current state and will be much more trouble than it is worth. Of course Bioware may surprise me and create an excellent DLC featuring the warden, and i would gladly pay for it if that ever happened.

 

For what it's worth, I do agree that whatever they do, they'll never satisfy all the fans. I just don't see that as a reason not to try.

 

I think Bioware is very capable of doing a well done DLC with the Warden. I don't see it as being the least bit impossible. 

 

Of course, I have pretty high standards for what is and isn't "impossible".

[TheKomandorShepard]

Kingt captain had 1 expansion (same for the warden ) in 2 another expansions we played as 2 other characters.It still pretty much ends "and adventure continues" in most cases we just don't see them.  

[b09boy]

I pointed examples of what you said is impossible.

 

 

What are you talking about?

 

 

Not rly no more than warden story they went do their stuff we never see how their story continued.Hero of Nwn 2.Bhaalspawn never recived continuation of their story (same for the warden)but pretty much universe goes one (same universe that neverwinter nights take place and a lot other games there are even some references) and from what i remember PT is as well in same setting there is even reference in bg 2 to 1 of Nameless One companions. 

 

And yet no further storylines regarding their characters.  Note as well, that many of the characters you provided had stories of a very personal nature, which then were concluded.  The Warden's story was initially concluded.  Then they reopened it, over and over again, and made it more and more personal as time went on.  It went conclusion and celebration in Origins, to fighting for their life in Inquisition.  Contrast that with everyone you listed.

 

Sorry, but this is an extremely weak argument.

[Colonelkillabee]

 Stubbornness is a poor reason.  I do not accept that reason.  It might be a, or the, reason they do not do this, but I find it unacceptable regardless.

How do you not "accept their reason"? If that's their reason, then that's their reason. It's not being stubborn if they decide they don't want to go through the effort of making a silent protagonist fit in a voiced protagonist's game... The majority of people would likely be annoyed, however they decide to handle it, then complain and complain and complain. I can understand them wanting to move on. I mean, come on. Origins already got a lot of dlc for the warden and otherwise. Let the inquisitor get his spotlight. We only get one game with each, unless it's some guest appearance again. No one wants to be forced to work on an old project just because people can't let go.

[TheKomandorShepard]

 

What are you talking about?

 

 

 

And yet no further storylines regarding their characters.  Note as well, that many of the characters you provided had stories of a very personal nature, which then were concluded.  The Warden's story was initially concluded.  Then they reopened it, over and over again, and made it more and more personal as time went on.  It went conclusion and celebration in Origins, to fighting for their life in Inquisition.  Contrast that with everyone you listed.

 

Sorry, but this is an extremely weak argument.

 

Oh god...

 

"And yet no further storylines regarding their characters" what was my point... They still had futher stories just we didn't saw them.

Spoiler

Pt hero stucked in "hell" ,Knight captian could go on destroy world/gods quest or continue his adventures or other stuff when Bhaalspawn had new enemies to face in every ending they still had story just that you didn't saw pretty much same can be with the warden

 

This isn't even an argument this is pretty much prove that it is done to many rpg protagonists after devs are done with them .

[b09boy]

How do you not "accept their reason"? If that's their reason, then that's their reason.

And I don't accept that.  Simple as that.

 

 

It's not being stubborn if they decide they don't want to go through the effort of making a silent protagonist fit in a voiced protagonist's game...

 

You're right.  It's not simply being stubborn if they have a reason.  But, as I already said, it's easier to create a silent protagonist than a voiced one, so that's not the reason.

 

The majority of people would likely be annoyed, however they decide to handle it, then complain and complain and complain. I can understand them wanting to move on. I mean, come on. Origins already got a lot of dlc for the warden and otherwise. Let the inquisitor get his spotlight. We only get one game with each, unless it's some guest appearance again. No one wants to be forced to work on an old project just because people can't let go.

I've already addressed this in its entirety two pages back.  Feel free to catch up.

[Colonelkillabee]

And I don't accept that.  Simple as that.

 

 

 

You're right.  It's not simply being stubborn if they have a reason.  But, as I already said, it's easier to create a silent protagonist than a voiced one, so that's not the reason.

 

I've already addressed this in its entirety two pages back.  Feel free to catch up.

Dude, I've been following and participating in this thread well before you have. You weren't talking with me, and apparently needed to be told again, so I did.

 

 

And going from voiced to silent again in 2014/15, just isn't going to happen. Not when they're more concerned with flash and attracting the "new" crowd.

[Ascendra]

 Stubbornness is a poor reason.  I do not accept that reason.  It might be a, or the, reason they do not do this, but I find it unacceptable regardless.

 

But you do realize that you are being a stubborn one for not accepting their reasons, not them.

 

They are the company that has to make money. They are not a charity organization and not a kickstarter, they are a business entity answering to a larger business entity. So no matter what they do it will always be to get as much return on their initial investment as possible, to stay in business and create further games. Which means to appease to a larger possible crowd. I know that game companies arent really there to make huge profits, but they still have to do something to stay in business. The voiced protagonist was probably a business decision that fit with new times and new potential crowd, and they aren't going to back out of it just because a small group of nostalgic fans wants something else.

 

@Killabee 

I wrote this long-winded reply and then saw you beat me to it.

[Ascendra]

For what it's worth, I do agree that whatever they do, they'll never satisfy all the fans. I just don't see that as a reason not to try.

 

I think Bioware is very capable of doing a well done DLC with the Warden. I don't see it as being the least bit impossible. 

 

Of course, I have pretty high standards for what is and isn't "impossible".

 

Yeah, I understand.  It's not that I don't have faith in them, I'm just afraid for their mental health and sanity if they ever attempted it.

But I guess we have to agree to disagree.

[b09boy]

Oh god...

"Note as well, that many of the characters you provided had stories of a very personal nature, which then were concluded.  The Warden's story was initially concluded.  Then they reopened it, over and over again, and made it more and more personal as time went on. "

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

The Warden is gone & isn't coming back, no matter how much some people whine about it, could easily play DA:O if you wanna play as the character again

[Ascendra]

Riiiiight.  It's been awhile.  The Knight Captain's story had a sequel to it as well, no?  And then...not another one.  So...yeah.

 

And yeah, the Exile...  Ugh.  I'd rather avoid that topic.  I find it rather disgusting.

 

Yep, Mask of the Betrayer. Currently replaying it and its awesome. It ends with almost Happily Ever After if you pick the right decisions. And there are 2 completely different endings with several variations of them.

There was Storm of Zehir as well, but you play as a different protagonist there, build your team a-la Icewind Dale and the game only mentions KC, pretty much what DA2 and Inquisition did with HoF.

 

Exile - my favorite protagonist in SW universe. I just headcannon a different story, and play SWTOR for the Empire and try to avoid entire Revan business.

[b09boy]

Dude, I've been following and participating in this thread well before you have. You weren't talking with me, and apparently needed to be told again, so I did.

Apparently you weren't paying much attention then.

 

""But Inquisition is the Inquisitor's game."  And Origins is the Warden's game.  That doesn't mean other protagonists for DLC or expansions are off the table.  Nobody is saying every piece of DLC should be about the Warden or that the majority shouldn't focus on fleshing out the base game.

 

...

 

There will always be hate for something.  And it will only be overwhelming if they handle things poorly - keep in mind that most of the hate for Bioware games from the past half decade or so have been because they've done aspects very poorly.  Why should we the consumer be simply hoping they don't screw up instead of the ones making demands for what we want?  Since when is that a thing?  Besides which, they're going to get plenty of hate if they do nothing with the character.  As you say, this topic keeps on popping back up over and again.  Want that to end, give the character closure."

[TheKomandorShepard]

"Note as well, that many of the characters you provided had stories of a very personal nature, which then were concluded.  The Warden's story was initially concluded.  Then they reopened it, over and over again, and made it more and more personal as time went on. "

Yes they had story of very personal nature so what then their story was continued but we never saw that same is with the warden?

 

The warden is searching cure ,Knight captian is doing that , Nameless One doing that and so go one doesn't mean you will see story of them doing that their story is finished you are just given information what they are doing what doesn't mean you will get another game about them....

[Colonelkillabee]

Apparently you weren't paying much attention then.

 

""But Inquisition is the Inquisitor's game."  And Origins is the Warden's game.  That doesn't mean other protagonists for DLC or expansions are off the table.  Nobody is saying every piece of DLC should be about the Warden or that the majority shouldn't focus on fleshing out the base game.

 

...

 

There will always be hate for something.  And it will only be overwhelming if they handle things poorly - keep in mind that most of the hate for Bioware games from the past half decade or so have been because they've done aspects very poorly.  Why should we the consumer be simply hoping they don't screw up instead of the ones making demands for what we want?  Since when is that a thing?  Besides which, they're going to get plenty of hate if they do nothing with the character.  As you say, this topic keeps on popping back up over and again.  Want that to end, give the character closure."

I was, and this literally changes nothing or dismisses anything I said to you.

 

"There will always be hate for something" isn't an excuse to do anything. Also, it doesn't matter how they handle it, people are gonna whine if the warden doesn't get a voice, and people are gonna whine if they do because the voice "sucks and doesn't match perfectly with how they envisioned their own super speshul warden".

 

This isn't something that would just be a small group. And why even bother wasting resources to make this work when they have a brand spanking new character with so much potential for new adventures and activities that's already voiced and rearing to go? If they thought it'd be worth doing, they would have given us something already. They went through the trouble of letting you recreate your own hawke. Obviously they didn't find the warden worth the trouble.

[b09boy]

But you do realize that you are being a stubborn one for not accepting their reasons, not them.

 

Yeah?  I'm a consumer.  I have every right, and reason, to be stubborn.  They're a business.  Being stubborn with a consumer is idiotic.

 

 

They are the company that has to make money. 

 

Let's work out the financials to this quick.  Voiced characters are more expensive.  By far.  They are the reason games with voiced protagonists almost universally don't run as long as Origins.  The only exceptions to this rules are basically a game with an astronomical budget, and a game in which most of the gameplay is filled with fetch quests without dialogue.  Why?  Because voice actors tend to get paid by the word and the games need to be translated to multiple languages.  So let's compare that with the idea and hype buildup they could make with the grand return of their most popular protagonist from their most popular game in the series.

 

I think the math would speak for itself here.

[Brass_Buckles]

I don't want to offend anyone in saying so, but I'd really rather the Warden didn't come back, at this point.

 

There was a time when I thought DA2 would feature the Warden, but no, we got Hawke.  Then it was all over for the Warden, and I knew it.  There's not an easy way to bring the Warden back.  If we meet the Warden, we're going to be meeting what the game thinks the Warden should be like, and not the Warden we actually played and brought to life through our actions and choices.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing the Warden again, but I don't want to play any of my Wardens again, if that makes sense.  I also don't want to be Hawke again.

 

As attached as I was to my Warden, the only character I want to play more of right now is my Inquisitor, because I feel like the Inquisition's story is not actually over.

[b09boy]

Yes they had story of very personal nature so what then their story was continued but we never saw that same is with the warden?

 

The warden is searching cure ,Knight captian is doing that , Nameless One doing that and so go one doesn't mean you will see story of them doing that their story is finished you are just given information what they are doing what doesn't mean you will get another game about them....

Literally can barely understand what you're saying anymore.

 

"There will always be hate for something" isn't an excuse to do anything. Also, it doesn't matter how they handle it, people are gonna whine if the warden doesn't get a voice, and people are gonna whine if they do because the voice "sucks and doesn't match perfectly with how they envisioned their own super speshul warden".

 

So you and I agree then.  They're going to whine no matter what.  So...why is this an excuse for not doing this?

 

 

 

And why even bother wasting resources to make this work when they have a brand spanking new character with so much potential for new adventures and activities that's already voiced and rearing to go? 

 

 

Because the resources would actually be cheaper with a Warden.  A DLC featuring the Warden would also likely sell better than a DLC featuring the Inquisitor.  People like a comeback.  Nostalgia's a helluva thing.