233 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Literally can barely understand what you're saying anymore.

 

Sadly repeating myself countless times drains my sanity and well willingness to continue.

[Ahalvern]

I don't see what's so bad in asking them to make our Wardens re-appear. Why does it have to be about nostalgia? We see character development for characters who used to be in our party, we see them evolve and change. Our wardens are pretty much in the same universe and timeline as these guys, but apparently they have to come up with some excuse to send them away from our eyes. Fine, they are on a quest, can't we at least live through whatever they're doing, even if it's not a normal game length? It feels like our hero lived in an ancient age, unrelated to everyone. All we hear for two games is "Hero of Ferelden, this and that blah blah".

 

If they're gonna continue with that I suggest jumping forward in time, and calling the series "The Many Ages" or something. Because after three games I consider all three PC's to be protagonists, and coming up with acceptable ways to get rid of them doesn't sit well with me.

[Ascendra]

Let's work out the financials to this quick.  Voiced characters are more expensive.  By far.  They are the reason games with voiced protagonists almost universally don't run as long as Origins.  The only exceptions to this rules are basically a game with an astronomical budget, and a game in which most of the gameplay is filled with fetch quests without dialogue.  Why?  Because voice actors tend to get paid by the word and the games need to be translated to multiple languages.  So let's compare that with the idea and hype buildup they could make with the grand return of their most popular protagonist from their most popular game in the series.

 

I think the math would speak for itself here.

 

Its not about math its about economics and marketing here, so If you want to go into financials  - unless a developer comes and says otherwise - I will assume that the opportunity cost of losing or forgoing a customer segment that likes voiced protagonist is greater than the cost of voicing the protagonist, hence the reason for sticking to voice protagonist.

 

 

Yeah?  I'm a consumer.  I have every right, and reason, to be stubborn.  They're a business.  Being stubborn with a consumer is idiotic.

 

Yeah, this argument is as old as time. You are one consumer in apparently a small segment, and as a business entity the company will always cater to the largest segment or to a largest possible number of segments. 

 

 

The above is of course my assumption based on their direction. So unless a developer comes and says otherwise I will assume that is the case.

[b09boy]

Its not about math its about economics and marketing here, so If you want to go into financials  - unless a developer comes and says otherwise - I will assume that the opportunity cost of losing or forgoing a customer segment that likes voiced protagonist is greater than the cost of voicing the protagonist, hence the reason for sticking to voice protagonist.

 

 

Yeah, this argument is as old as time. You are one consumer in apparently a small segment, and as a business entity the company will always cater to the largest segment. 

 

There's some hefty assumptions going on.  Let's put this very simply and get to the hypothetical.  Out of those here, both for and against, would any of you actually not buy a Warden DLC, or be uninterested if they announced it?

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Eh, I miss my Warden as much as the next guy, but the character I created there and this new system of role-playing is ... not a good match.

Though I should not speak more of this, or I'll bring the wrath of Gothfather down upon myself.

[OHB MajorV]

This only ends with the HoF dead and you given a new warden to investigate or solve how/why. It's the only logical way from a writers stand point to close this chapter of DA forever. People won't let it go and just let it be, it will be virtually impossible for them to create a character that lives up to everyone's head canon warden so they will do the only thing they can and kill him/her.

I will be back to remind all of you that this is what you asked for, just saying.

[Ascendra]

There's some hefty assumptions going on.  Let's put this very simply and get to the hypothetical.  Out of those here, both for and against, would any of you actually not buy a Warden DLC, or be uninterested if they announced it?

 

I would of course. But whatever you or I or a few people say in this thread is a very small sample which is by no means representative of Bioware's entire market. And I do not think the question was of who would or wouldn't buy the DLC with the Warden, the question was - who would buy a DLC with a silent protagonist. I would again, because its Bioware and because I've been a fan since BG1, but again not representative of the entire market but only a small sample.

[Colonelkillabee]

So you and I agree then.  They're going to whine no matter what.  So...why is this an excuse for not doing this?

 

 

 

 

 

Because the resources would actually be cheaper with a Warden.  A DLC featuring the Warden would also likely sell better than a DLC featuring the Inquisitor.  People like a comeback.  Nostalgia's a helluva thing.

Because where you and I disagree is the level of whining. You probably don't think it'd be any more or less worse than typical whining. Me, I think it'd get a rather big overreaction. And Bioware remembers how big the reaction can get when fans are upset, though Mass Effect 3 was warranted.

 

I don't think everyone likes a comeback, not when the story's already been written rather well and the ending satisfying. To me, anyway. That's also why I personally don't want another dlc for the warden. I think his ending was done rather well.

 

I'm also not so sure about that dlc thing. The warden selling better than the inquisitor, that is. The inquisitor is new, and successful. A lot of people like him more than the warden, and Dragon Age has a lot of new fans now too. That for bioware is where the money's at. Attracting more new customers, not catering to the old. An unfortunate attitude, but that's how it is.

[b09boy]

I would of course. But whatever you or I or a few people say in this thread is a very small sample which is by no means representative of Bioware's entire market. And I do not think the question was of who would or wouldn't buy the DLC with the Warden, the question was - who would buy a DLC with a silent protagonist.

 

Most likely, quite a few.  Keep in mind, Origins was very likely Bioware's best-selling game, far eclipsing that of either DA to date.  So this idea that the market is somehow completely against a silent protagonist is pretty flawed.

[Icesong]

To the people saying let the Warden go: I did. Bioware didn't. I was perfectly happy with the DAO/DAA ending and was against any further inclusion of the Warden. But they chose to anyway and now there needs to be followup. 

[b09boy]

Because where you and I disagree is the level of whining. You probably don't think it'd be any more or less worse than typical whining. Me, I think it'd get a rather big overreaction. And Bioware remembers how big the reaction can get when fans are upset, though Mass Effect 3 was warranted.

Basically all the negative reactions they've received so far have been warranted for one reason or another.  The Warden would get hate, of course.  They'd also get love.  Avoiding reactions just because they'd be so loud is...not a very good business choice.

 

I don't think everyone likes a comeback, not when the story's already been written rather well and the ending satisfying. To me, anyway. That's also why I personally don't want another dlc for the warden. I think his ending was done rather well.

 

Pffffftahahahaha.  What, really?  I mean, in the vanilla game, sure, but the rest of it?  Cliffhanger after cliffhanger.

 

 

I'm also not so sure about that dlc thing. The warden selling better than the inquisitor, that is. The inquisitor is new, and successful. A lot of people like him more than the warden, and Dragon Age has a lot of new fans now too. That for bioware is where the money's at. Attracting more new customers, not catering to the old. An unfortunate attitude, but that's how it is.

It's a matter of storytelling.  Hammer away at something new and it eventually becomes old, but then you bring back something old and it becomes new and fresh again.  Sort of like putting on an old pair of shoes you broke in a long time ago and just threw some polish on.  As for the money, if Bioware thinks that's where it's at then they're fools.  DA2 tried that route, and it sold half as much as Origins.  Attracting new customers should always be important, but shunning those you've already got is a recipe for disaster.

 

That was the glory, and disaster, of the first two DA games, in fact.  Origins was set to cater to the old fans, not bringing in the new.  But they thought it would wind up failing so when they started up DA2 (a good six months prior to the release of Origins) they changed things up to attract a new crowd.  Lo and behold, the game which was a callback to the old fans ended up bringing a bunch back and sold extremely well.  The game which tried to attract the new crowd was panned and nearly killed the series.

[Ascendra]

Most likely, quite a few.  Keep in mind, Origins was very likely Bioware's best-selling game, far eclipsing that of either DA to date.  So this idea that the market is somehow completely against a silent protagonist is pretty flawed.

 

Not completely against no, but as I said, smaller than the market for voiced protagonist which is probably more costly to lose.

I guess real figures will be our salvation, until then we have to agree to disagree.

[Colonelkillabee]

Basically all the negative reactions they've received so far have been warranted for one reason or another.  The Warden would get hate, of course.  They'd also get love.  Avoiding reactions just because they'd be so loud is...not a very good business choice.

 

 

Pffffftahahahaha.  What, really?  I mean, in the vanilla game, sure, but the rest of it?  Cliffhanger after cliffhanger.

 

It's a matter of storytelling.  Hammer away at something new and it eventually becomes old, but then you bring back something old and it becomes new and fresh again.  Sort of like putting on an old pair of shoes you broke in a long time ago and just threw some polish on.  As for the money, if Bioware thinks that's where it's at then they're fools.  DA2 tried that route, and it sold half as much as Origins.  Attracting new customers should always be important, but shunning those you've already got is a recipe for disaster.

 

That was the glory, and disaster, of the first two DA games, in fact.  Origins was set to cater to the old fans, not bringing in the new.  But they thought it would wind up failing so when they started up DA2 (a good six months prior to the release of Origins) they changed things up to attract a new crowd.  Lo and behold, the game which was a callback to the old fans ended up bringing a bunch back and sold extremely well.  The game which tried to attract the new crowd was panned and nearly killed the series.

I'm not going to disagree with you on their current direction being faulty. But unfortunately, neither of us controls Bioware. That'd be EA.

 

As for the cliffhanger part, I don't really see the cliffhanger. Not in my warden's story anyway. He killed the archdemon, morrigan left, he stopped more darkspawn and let the architect live, DA 2 showed a lot of the darkspawn followed and obeyed him like he promised, Morrigan came back in a dlc and my warden refused her offer, choosing to serve as a warden and not abandon the world to be with her and the child in another realm.

 

Inquisition told me what I was doing in the meantime and now we've moved on to Morrigan as she's the only one really relevant now. Meanwhile, my warden's been given busy work that can take him years to complete. That being to find a way not to die from the calling, and thus serving to help all of his fellow wardens once more before his time to retire. The only loose end is the architect, and the inquisitor or another hero can take up the mantle there the same way hawke passed on the mantle of fighting corypheus to us.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems all pretty tidy and neat to me, especially when you compare it to how other games handle this sort of thing.

[DuskWanderer]

Here are the reasons why I can see them not bringing back the Warden (avoiding the obvious, of course, that the Warden could be dead). They are all quite similar. 

 

 

"Hey, this doesn't look like the Warden I want, I can't get the hairstyle right. It's not mine-e-e-e-e-e!" 

 

"Hey, I don't like this voice. It doesn't sound like my Warden is supposed to sound. It's not me-e-e-e-e-e!" 

 

"The Warden is too nice/too mean. I didn't make those choices in Origins. It's not me-e-e-e-e-e!" 

 

"Oh noes. My Warrior Warden is using a sword and shield. I picked Dual-Wield. It's not me-e-e-e-e-e-e!" 

 

 

The list goes on. There's already plenty of insane, hysterical, self-obsessed folks who want it to be all about them. Since the Warden had no defined characteristics, that would just make it worse. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Oh yea, I forgot about the hair. They'd have to add new resources just to have our unique characters to remake, since they're not going to import. That kills this dead in the water right there.

 

Then again, didn't they do that for Hawke? I don't know since I always go default Hawke.

[errantknight]

I don't see what's so bad in asking them to make our Wardens re-appear. Why does it have to be about nostalgia? We see character development for characters who used to be in our party, we see them evolve and change. Our wardens are pretty much in the same universe and timeline as these guys, but apparently they have to come up with some excuse to send them away from our eyes. Fine, they are on a quest, can't we at least live through whatever they're doing, even if it's not a normal game length? It feels like our hero lived in an ancient age, unrelated to everyone. All we hear for two games is "Hero of Ferelden, this and that blah blah".

 

If they're gonna continue with that I suggest jumping forward in time, and calling the series "The Many Ages" or something. Because after three games I consider all three PC's to be protagonists, and coming up with acceptable ways to get rid of them doesn't sit well with me.

That's exactly what they did with Hawke and you saw him/her again. You may not get a dlc because they may have other plans, but to see the warden again...that's no different than seeing Hawke again, so it may well fit their plans. Don't assume that the fans speak for the writers. There's a weird double standard here when it comes to the wardens and the other protagonists. As long as peoplle realize that the warden willl sound different than they imagine and express their willingness to accept that, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. If they have any quallms about the warden, it probably has to do with possible tantrums related to moving from unvoiced to voiced, not that the warden is somehow different.

[Costin_Razvan]

The Warden will never be seen again.

Good bloody riddance.

[Ascendra]

Oh yea, I forgot about the hair. They'd have to add new resources just to have our unique characters to remake, since they're not going to import. That kills this dead in the water right there.

 

Then again, didn't they do that for Hawke? I don't know since I always go default Hawke.

 

Hawke had the default selection from the main CC for Quizzy - hair, tattoos, scars. The closest hair to default Hawke is pixie cut, otherwise its totally different.

No additional resources were used except the voice.

[Starwingz]

All of this discussion reminds me of a time when people didn't knew Hawke was gonna be in Inquisition and didn't want him in game anymore along with HoF.

It was stuff like:

-He can't be in game he would have to wear full helmet and I don't want that!!!

-OMG I won't be able to pick his dialogue options!

-My headcannon is that he sails seas with Isabela, blah blah blah...

-Hawke is failure, i dont want to see him again!

 

Guess what happened then. Trailer came out with Hawke and there were bunch of topics around how awesome this was along with sad faces when Laidlaw tweeted hours later that guy next to Hawke was not HoF.

[Colonelkillabee]

Hawke had the default selection from the main CC for Quizzy - hair, tattoos, scars. The closest hair to default Hawke is pixie cut, otherwise its totally different.

No additional resources were used except the voice.

Ah well there we go then. Not very likely at all in that case.

[errantknight]

Yeah. I swear I will never ask for an warden conclusion again if they give me an actual one. I'm just disappointed we will never have an three heroes team up *sigh* that had so much potential...

Are we sure we won't? Have they said so? I mean, they obviously couldn't be in the same place or working on the same thing, but they could all play a part and be played by the player, in different parts of Thedas. Might be interesting.

[Vilegrim]

It wouldn't work, you can't give the HoF a voice and take away the mechanics that made him/her work as a multi specialisation badass without completely taking away what people loved.

[fosewham]

Mass Effect was great because all three parts felt like one big game with one protagonist and familiar companions. It is just sad that Dragon Age can't do the same way. The Warden and  his companions  had left significant track in my soul as a gamer while characters from other Dragon Age games couldn't achieve the same. And it's not some nostalgia, I'm not so young to count 5 years as significant span of time and I played Origins just 2 months ago with same feelings as first time. I personally would be happy if Bioware, since they obvisiouly can't create the story of same strenght, will get back to the Origins characters, that made the series so famous. It's not that difficult, you know, they already brought back Lelianna and Morrigan (in kinda weird way, thought, because I should act like I met them first time as Inquisitor, while not long ago they were my friends when I was the Warden), they have capable and professional writers to do such thing in realistic and believable fashion.

 

I hope I conveyed my thoughts correctly, since English is not mine language and I'm a bit drunk, bit I tried my best.

[AWTEW]

I swear the world would feel incomplete if BSN stops spanning 'bring back the warden' threads every week.
Cant you people move on?
Im already developing an allergy to the word 'warden'.

No some can't move on, and when Bioware throws them a bone (aka a note telling them the warden is fine and searching for a cure to the calling) they still want more. It is a viscious cycle, that has been going on for years, that will not end until Bioware:

A- kills of the warden for good or
B: does a major time skip.
C- does a super awsome, and probably cheesy fanservice DLC that will cause more problems than it solves.

You learn to block it out after a while.