96 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Qunari lose a ship, meaning that any time they want, they can move about in the waters fairly normal. They get access to the water routes to get lyrium places, meaning that the qunari destruction was meaningless.

 

One operation=/=the only one. get facts straight.

facepalm ignoring everything i have said.... read that again... that part is thethe most important "and prob would lose ship and venatori would go with their operation"

 

that it is one operation doesn't mean it should be ignored it is just ridiculous qunari didn't ingored it just because it was 1 operation and didn't mean it wasn't important...

[draken-heart]

facepalm ignoring everything i have said.... read that again... that part is thethe most important "and prob would lose ship and venatori would go with their operation"
 
that it is one operation doesn't mean it should be ignored it is just ridiculous qunari didn't ingored it just because it was 1 operation and didn't mean it wasn't important...

All you said was "harm, harm, harm." I pointed out more significant ways to harm the Venatori. This operation has nothing to do with the big bad. Unless you have some evidence that proves that the Qunari want a foothold, the quest is simply pointless unless you are a completionist or believe that the alliance is a good thing.

[TheKomandorShepard]

All you said was "harm, harm, harm." I pointed out more significant ways to harm the Venatori. This operation has nothing to do with the big bad. Unless you have some evidence that proves that the Qunari want a foothold, the quest is simply pointless unless you are a completionist or believe that the alliance is a good thing.

Yes because it was you create scenario where you both enemies suffer losses instead 1 what without invervention it prob would be qunari and venatori would go with their operation succeeding (what i said would be bad for you in the future) in that scenario they both suffer loss and you profit from it.Sinking that operation was important (not as destroying grey wardens plan important but still) even if that was just 1 and could possible be only one then. 

[draken-heart]

Yes because it was you create scenario where you both enemies suffer losses instead 1 what without invervention it prob would be qunari and venatori would go with their operation succeeding (what i said would be bad for you in the future) in that scenario they both suffer loss and you profit from it.Sinking that operation was important (not destroying grey wardens important but still) even if that was just 1 and could possible be only one then.

one "significant" choice that does nothing in the long run, especially considering that they would likely have more operations like this. suffering loss at one cell will do nothing to the organization at large, pure and simple.

Prove to me that harming insignificant numbers of people = great/permanent harm to both organizations.

[TheKomandorShepard]

one "significant" choice that does nothing in the long run, especially considering that they would likely have more operations like this. suffering loss at one cell will do nothing to the organization at large, pure and simple.

It does that is why qunari wanted to stop operation in first place and we don't know if they have more operations like that or even if qunari won't stop them (what is in their best intrests).As i said not preventing that operation is bad for you and good for venatori so yes destroying that opperation is much better than not and that is simple.  

[draken-heart]

It does that is why qunari wanted to stop operation in first place and we don't know if they have more operations like that or even if qunari won't stop them (what is in their best intrests).As i said not preventing that operation is bad for you and good for venatori so yes destroying that opperation is much better than not and that is simple.

And not doing the quest saves the chargers, so if I want them, no quest, if I want the Venatori gone, do quest. That is all I was saying. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the Qunari are in fact the only ones that benefit from the inquisition dealing with this operation.

Dealing with that operation is not going to make them weaker, nor will letting it go make them stronger and impossible to stop.

[TheKomandorShepard]

And not doing the quest saves the chargers, so if I want them, no quest, if I want the Venatori gone, do quest. That is all I was saying.

Or do both what was my point because doing quest allows you both but what i was saying there is reason to do that quest even if you don't want alliance.

 

LoL it turned into chat better not to continue here.

[draken-heart]

Or do both what was my point because doing quest allows you both but what i was saying there is reason to do that quest even if you don't want alliance.

Again, I believe that doing the quest=Qunari gain most, as they now no longer have to deal with red lyrium coming up towards them. Whereas, for the inquisition, I never noticed any change or any notice that the Venatori actually became stronger for letting it go.

Unless there is clear evidence that that operation is the only thing that provides red lyrium to the entire Venatori, there is no real reason other than wanting an alliance with the Qunari to warrant going there.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Again, I believe that doing the quest=Qunari gain most, as they now no longer have to deal with red lyrium coming up towards them. Whereas, for the inquisition, I never noticed any change or any notice that the Venatori actually became stronger for letting it go.

You can do pretty much very important strikes against your enemies in war-table or foil many venatori/red templars important operations in certain regions you rly won't feel that in main quest or even at all despite it was big damage for their organization.

 

That is point of quest and that would be as well bad for you but qunari still lose that battle i explained why when inquisitor comes off with benefit without any lose in that battle.

[draken-heart]

You can do pretty much very important strikes against your enemies in war-table or foil many venatori/red templars important operations in certain regions you rly won't feel that in main quest or even at all despite it was big damage for their organization.
 
That is point of quest and that would be as well bad for you but qunari still lose that battle i explained why when inquisitor comes off with benefit without any lose in that battle.

I would not call anything you said benefits. Here is why:

1. The Venatori: Not knowing if this is THE lyrium smuggling operation or one of many or simply the people who put it on the boat makes it impossible to say this helps the inquisition.
2. The Qunari: You get rid of a potential enemy, true. You also possibly alienate/anger a nation/network of potential allies, meaning that this could lead to trouble between the Inquisition and the Qunari at some point.

So I would say there is no real benefit for saving the Chargers over the Qunari if doing the quest.

[suntiger745]

Roleplayingly, this is war, it's 6 people I'd have drinks with vs a shipload of "robotic"-minded chaps and an alliance (which to the Qun is toilet paper), a navy and better access to their spy network.

Well, let me put it this way. Spend a week without toilet parer, hiking or just back home, and then tell me it isn't precious.

[TheKomandorShepard]

They lose one battle, but may win more without the red lyrium charging their enemies. What benefit does the inquisition gain? Harm to something that actually is only a problem to the Qunari? by the end of the game, the Venatori are destroyed red lyrium or no. the only benefit you mentione was what you felt/your opinion. I want hard evidence that the inquisition gains from destroying a possible alliance with the Qunari by saving the chargers, who are already working for the inquisition so they do not count.

Tevinter with red lyrium is bad for you and bad for qunari i rly hope i don't have to say why?To be honest best for inq if tevinter and qunari are more or less equal.

As i said you damage both your enemies without screwing yourself from qunari or tevinter (venatori) side plus you can keep charges and gain iron bull loyalty so yes fine deal.And so what they work for you as i said another way to keep them is not doing quest what is good for venatori bad for qunari and bad for you or lose them screw venatori and deliver pure gain to qunari.Doing quest that way you won't lose chargers , you will stop that operation and do some damage to qunari plus as i said iron bull loyalty . 

[draken-heart]

Tevinter with red lyrium is bad for you and bad for qunari i rly hope i don't have to say why?To be honest best for inq if tevinter and qunari are more or less equal.
As i said you damage both your enemies without screwing yourself from qunari or tevinter (venatori) side plus you can keep charges and gain iron bull loyalty so yes fine deal.And so what they work for you as i said another way to keep them is not doing quest what is good for venatori bad for qunari and bad for you or lose them screw venatori and deliver pure gain to qunari.Doing quest that way you won't lose chargers , you will stop that operation and do some damage to qunari plus as i said iron bull loyalty .

How do you know? we do not know if they will attack the south. We know nothing, so letting it go means nothing, stopping it means nothing.

In the end, all that matters is that Bull either remains Qunari or becomes Tal-Vashoth.

[Colonelkillabee]

How do you know? we do not know if they will attack the south. We know nothing, so letting it go means nothing, stopping it means nothing.

In the end, all that matters is that Bull either remains Qunari or becomes Tal-Vashoth.

It's been hinted since Origins. Safe to say it's coming.

 

I don't know if I'm going to be hit by a car. Doesn't mean wearing a seatbelt and looking both ways before I cross the street means nothing and isn't a good idea.

[TheKomandorShepard]

How do you know? we do not know if they will attack the south. We know nothing, so letting it go means nothing, stopping it means nothing.

In the end, all that matters is that Bull either remains Qunari or becomes Tal-Vashoth.

Well pretty much it is obvious they want to do that...

[draken-heart]

It's been hinted since Origins. Safe to say it's coming.
 
I don't know if I'm going to be hit by a car. Doesn't mean wearing a seatbelt and looking both ways before I cross the street means nothing and isn't a good idea.

There is only speculation. Maybe the red stuff will make Tevinter kill itself. Maybe the Qunari will become more reclusive. All I know is that Save chargers=Bull becomes Tal-Vashoth, and save dreadnought=Bull remains part of the Qun. I do not take hints and speculation as hard fact.

[draken-heart]

Well pretty much it is obvious they want to do that...

For all I know, the Vints have been dealing with each other and the Qunari. Stopping this means nothing because I know not what would happen if I stop It (Likely what is going on now). I also do not know what would happen if I let it go (maybe they go crazy and try to kill each other for more power).

All I know at this point is the in-game effects, so I go by that.

[TheKomandorShepard]

There is only speculation. Maybe the red stuff will make Tevinter kill itself. Maybe the Qunari will become more reclusive. All I know is that Save chargers=Bull becomes Tal-Vashoth, and save dreadnought=Bull remains part of the Qun. I do not take hints and speculation as hard fact.

Venatori were fine using it for their benefit so it will tevinter and with qunari good luck with that it is clear they would love to throw another invasion in right moment.

 

 

For all I know, the Vints have been dealing with each other and the Qunari. Stopping this means nothing because I know not what would happen if I stop It (Likely what is going on now). I also do not know what would happen if I let it go (maybe they go crazy and try to kill each other for more power).

All I know at this point is the in-game effects, so I go by that.

as above

[Colonelkillabee]

There is only speculation. Maybe the red stuff will make Tevinter kill itself. Maybe the Qunari will become more reclusive. All I know is that Save chargers=Bull becomes Tal-Vashoth, and save dreadnought=Bull remains part of the Qun. I do not take hints and speculation as hard fact.

Since when was me getting hit by a car a hard fact? LOLOL, It's called being prepared. You'll be a terrible leader if you can only make decisions based on hard facts.

 

Note that I personally sacrifice the chargers, but I can see the arguments for the opposite.

[draken-heart]

Venatori were fine using it for their benefit so it will tevinter and with qunari good luck with that it is clear they would love to throw another invasion in right moment.
 
 
as above

I do not what would happen. So saying "this is bad for [insert reason here]" is not the best answer for me, as I need more information to make a clear call, otherwise it is based off of what I think is best for the bull, not for the inquisition. Another invasion might be stopped with the Vints having red lyrium, and red lyrium made Templars get super charged, and we know that the families in Tevinter are basically trying to one up each other, so why not assume that the red stuff will make them more homicidal?

[Colonelkillabee]

Lord you do this same thing constantly on BSF and everywhere you go. You can't analyze anything with that sort of rigid thinking.

[draken-heart]

Lord you do this same thing constantly on BSF and everywhere you go. You can't analyze anything with that sort of rigid thinking.

Seriously? I can't? I mean, what if there really are more operations/cells like this one? would that actually mean that this is all for nothing as I never actually did any real damage to this operation? What about the Qunari? letting a dreadnought sink may actually make the Qunari enemies more than potential allies/hope for peace.

As far as I know, there is no benefit to either side except whether I want the Iron Bull as Tal-Vashoth or as true Qunari.

I cannot assume what @TheKomandorShepard said is truly a benefit because of the variables. Like with the car belt. How do you know that the belt is not defective? how do you know that a car will not hit you as speeds that will kill you with or without it? too many variables make certain choices not so clear cut.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I do not what would happen. So saying "this is bad for [insert reason here]" is not the best answer for me, as I need more information to make a clear call, otherwise it is based off of what I think is best for the bull, not for the inquisition. Another invasion might be stopped with the Vints having red lyrium, and red lyrium made Templars get super charged, and we know that the families in Tevinter are basically trying to one up each other, so why not assume that the red stuff will make them more homicidal?

So unless you can predict future you can't make any decision because even when you are runing through the street you can't tell if you will be hit by a car good chances you will and that make doing such stupid decision same here. As i said giving tevinter such power isn't good for you as pretty much they will turn on you and when tevinter is selfish they are way too organized to destroy each other and even if it will end on disaster you still will end dealing with army of superpowered monsters. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Seriously? I can't? I mean, what if there really are more operations/cells like this one? would that actually mean that this is all for nothing as I never actually did any real damage to this operation? What about the Qunari? letting a dreadnought sink may actually make the Qunari enemies more than potential allies/hope for peace.

As far as I know, there is no benefit to either side except whether I want the Iron Bull as Tal-Vashoth or as true Qunari.

If there are other operations, then you still took out a big one, and all you lost was a handful of mercs that can't even handle a two on one scenario. The chargers are not valuable beyond emotional attachment.

 

And even if you do make an enemy out of the Qunari, that may be a good thing considering the Inquisition needs an enemy to stay relevant.

 

As far as you know, people will stop before they hit you crossing the road. I still look both ways.

[draken-heart]

So unless you can predict future you can't make any decision because even when you are runing through the street you can't tell if you will be hit by a car good chances you will and that make doing such stupid decision same here. As i said giving tevinter such power isn't good for you as pretty much they will turn on you and when tevinter is selfish they are way too organized to destroy each other and even if it will end on disaster you still will end dealing with army of superpowered monsters.

All I am saying is that there are too many variables for me to say for certain that the damage done is truly beneficial for the inquisition. I can decide based off of what I think is best for the Bull personally. And I can see the reason for both sides.

1. Tal-Vashoth: Bull has his company and friends in the inquisition, so he may stay sane, at least a while longer.
2. Qunari: The bull never truly existed, as he puts it, so he might need this reminder.