1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvianus]

 

Being someone's mistress is not a happy ending. And even if you are lucky enough to have started the game as a human noble so you can marry your LI, you still have to allow him to sleep with a woman who has consistently berated him and you all so she can have his baby, which you are plainly told you can never give him.

 

So, you need to have a disney ending to be considered as happy ? Yes, I can't have a baby, ( why my warden would have a baby, when she has to kill darkspawn around ? )  and Alistair is forced to do its duty. But he is devoted to his darling, he is with her, and lives an adventurous romance with her, despite Anora totally left behind; And if you don't like this ending, then, choose to be a queen.

[whitless256]

The differentiation people are mostly making is that only male romances so far have had unavoidable bad endings. Female ones never have. It's more the lack of choice than the existence of the tragedy. 

 

I don't think that they necessarily shouldn't have been tragic. I do personally think that there have been too many tragic male romance options but that's not just out of comparison to female romance options. When you compare the two, it seems worse for many who believe that the female romances for the most part lack tragic elements. I'd rather Thane have a happy ending if Jacob's was going to end up so terribly, for example. Otherwise I felt saturated with terrible endings. I don't want to tell BioWare what to do, but I'll say what I'd rather they do. That's not the point of this thread, though.

 

I think the examples you gave would have really lessened the feeling of inequality that is the basis of the thread. The unbalanced element is what causes the anger. Others will piggyback on the general idea and say that they don't like tragedy but the perceived inequality is at the heart of it and is the real point of the thread. In case you were confused about what the thread was asking for, since the discussion has since gone down multiple roads from the point first brought up.

 

Thank you for the explanation.  There has been so much argument about the tragedy being there at all that everything has gone a little muddled.  I think what really got me involved in this discussion in the first place was a post many many pages back where a person insisted that it wasn't fair that Solas was tragic because they didn't want to romance Cullen or Iron Bull, at which point my brain kinda snapped.  

 

For me, I'm a huge fan of stories like Game of Thrones where marriage is not about love, but about political advancement, and I have a super easy time accepting the idea of the wife and the mistress (Vivienne, for example) as it's a universally accepted political construct in world.  So unfortunately I can't really comprehend the argument that Alistair is tragic because you're his mistress.  But I also realize that's just me.  And I want to defend that aspect of the game because it's one of my favorite aspects.  I think I might just be a bit of a cold b**** since I like all these things that seem to be breaking everyone else's hearts.    I was okay with Alistair sleeping with Morrigan to save his life and it took me until my fourth Origins playthrough to NOT make a god baby. 

 

But, in the end, what has bothered me most in this discussion is that a lot of folks seem to be insisting that their tragedy is more tragic.  This whole argument going on about Cassandra vs. Alistair as an example.  The guy who romanced Cassandra and lost her seems to feel VERY strongly about the loss, so I'm a bit bothered by folks telling him 'pfft that's nothing, Alistair is worse.'   We all have our unique pains and perspectives and his heartbreak is no less real than anyone else's.  Particularly because he had no way of knowing he had to play strategically to avoid it.  He played his game, then got crapped on by his LI.  That's the game he played.  His feelings are no less real than the feelings of women who got dumped by Alistair.

[Shari'El]

So, you need to have a disney ending to be considered as happy ? Yes, I can't have a baby, ( why my warden would have a baby, when she has to kill darkspawn around ? )  and Alistair is forced to do its duty. But he is devoted to his darling, he is with her, and lives an adventurous romance with her, despite Anora totally left behind; And if you don't like this ending, then, choose to be a queen.

 

Wat. Your warden may not want babies but maybe another warden would want a baby?

I'm not sure why you are deciding for an entire group of characters what they want.

 

You are just refusing to see the point of why we think this way about this romance.

If I would've been in my warden shoes I would've had a hard hard time letting the guy I love sleep with another woman, conceive a child, and then be his mistress and sharing him with yet another woman.

And as said, if you go on and make him stay a warden (one less woman to share him with), he might get killed in the fade (depends on whether some Inquisitor decided it's him or Hawke).

[RynJ]

Thank you for the explanation.  There has been so much argument about the tragedy being there at all that everything has gone a little muddled.  I think what really got me involved in this discussion in the first place was a post many many pages back where a person insisted that it wasn't fair that Solas was tragic because they didn't want to romance Cullen or Iron Bull, at which point my brain kinda snapped.

 

For me, I'm a huge fan of stories like Game of Thrones where marriage is not about love, but about political advancement, and I have a super easy time accepting the idea of the wife and the mistress (Vivienne, for example) as it's a universally accepted political construct in world.  So unfortunately I can't really comprehend the argument that Alistair is tragic because you're his mistress.  But I also realize that's just me.  And I want to defend that aspect of the game because it's one of my favorite aspects.  I think I might just be a bit of a cold b**** since I like all these things that seem to be breaking everyone else's hearts.    I was okay with Alistair sleeping with Morrigan to save his life and it took me until my fourth Origins playthrough to NOT make a god baby. 

 

But, in the end, what has bothered me most in this discussion is that a lot of folks seem to be insisting that their tragedy is more tragic.  This whole argument going on about Cassandra vs. Alistair as an example.  The guy who romanced Cassandra and lost her seems to feel VERY strongly about the loss, so I'm a bit bothered by folks telling him 'pfft that's nothing, Alistair is worse.'   We all have our unique pains and perspectives and his heartbreak is no less real than anyone else's.  Particularly because he had no way of knowing he had to play strategically to avoid it.  He played his game, then got crapped on by his LI.  That's the game he played.  His feelings are no less real than the feelings of women who got dumped by Alistair.

 

Alistair will always be a touchy subject because for many, the whole thing dances around rape-like elements. That's why people will get riled up when it's compared to Cassandra, who stays happily with you if you just help someone else become Divine, which is easy. It also doesn't involve nearly the same level of jumping through hoops that it took to get a happy ending with Alistair.

 

And sure, glad I could communicate the point of this thread well past all the other discussions going on. If I seemed snappy before, sorry for that too. I haven't had enough coffee today. 

[Dakota Strider]

Just curious...when does the count start?  Apparently it is ok to use ME experiences in regard to romances.  Don't have any experience with those.  But Bioware's last franchise before DA was NwN1, and there was not a more tragic ending than what happened to Aribeth.  Even if you count saving her soul from hell, in the third installment of the series, it was not by the original hero from the first official campaign.  The OC of NwN1 still counts as the worst ending for me.  Go one franchise earlier, and you had Viconia being assassinated in the epilogue. 

 

So, it has been spread around.  What was not spread around early on in Bioware's history, was the amount of choices available for everyone.  They seemed to have tried to compensate for that in DLI, with 4 choices for hetero females.  And the ladies seemed to get a not just more choices this time, but a wider variety.  The two choices the guys had, were between two nice female companions, both who had a "Disney" ending.  Nothing really special.  If a female protagonist wanted a Disney ending, it appears that was possible.  Plus, they have two others to choose from. 

 

But hey, the more the better.  Only worry is, if they try to work in too many more choices, will it take away resources from the rest of the game? 

[whitless256]

But they said the opposite "Anyway the point is nobody is saying they don't want a tragic romance at all, just the option to be able to avoid a terrible ending without being sabotaged to ridiculous levels."

We just want to ability to avoid horrible heartbreaking (like watching your LI die in front of your face), not tragedy all together.

 

So you want all tragic romances to be optional?  I think that's what you're saying?  Can I ask for a bit of clarification?  In terms of optional do you mean like... having a walkthrough of dialogue choices and decisions that have to be made in order to have a happy ending, otherwise it ends badly?  Kind of like the ME2 suicide mission, except as a romance?

 

Or are you asking for something a little less complicated like, for example, reaching the Solas breakup point and being able to talk him out of it?  Or being able to convince him at the end to not leave, and you just get to chose if he leaves or not in that moment? 

 

What are your thoughts on how to construct that in game?

[Knight-Enchanter Lavellan]

So you want all tragic romances to be optional?  I think that's what you're saying?  Can I ask for a bit of clarification?  In terms of optional do you mean like... having a walkthrough of dialogue choices and decisions that have to be made in order to have a happy ending, otherwise it ends badly?  Kind of like the ME2 suicide mission, except as a romance?

 

Or are you asking for something a little less complicated like, for example, reaching the Solas breakup point and being able to talk him out of it?  Or being able to convince him at the end to not leave, and you just get to chose if he leaves or not in that moment? 

 

What are your thoughts on how to construct that in game?

I think Shari'Hel is asking for more player agency in the direction a romance takes. Giving the player the ability to influence whether or not their romance will be tragic or not based on the choices they make and actions they take in game. 

 

Personally I do not enjoy tragic romances or heaps of tragedy thus if forced tragic romances were shifted to future straight male romances it would likely ween me off that content entirely, but I'm not against BioWare allowing a player to influence their romance through the actions of their character and push it towards a brighter or darker ending with as much closure or ambiguity as they have put in the effort to attain.

[Moirnelithe]

So you want all tragic romances to be optional?  I think that's what you're saying?  Can I ask for a bit of clarification?  In terms of optional do you mean like... having a walkthrough of dialogue choices and decisions that have to be made in order to have a happy ending, otherwise it ends badly?  Kind of like the ME2 suicide mission, except as a romance?

 

Or are you asking for something a little less complicated like, for example, reaching the Solas breakup point and being able to talk him out of it?  Or being able to convince him at the end to not leave, and you just get to chose if he leaves or not in that moment? 

 

What are your thoughts on how to construct that in game?

 

I haven't played the ME series so I can't compare. Personally I like the Solas romance the way it is, provided we get some closure in a future game or dlc that doesn't make me feel terrible for picking the romance in the first place. Enough is enough. The story requires Solas to leave when and how he did, I totally understand that, I loved the way it was done and I wouldn't want to talk him out of it this time. But I don't want any sadistic endings in the future regarding this romance that make me upset for weeks just thinking about it. And then in DA4 have a repeat with another character yet again. That's just bordering on sadism.

[whitless256]

I think Shari'Hel is asking for more player agency in the direction a romance takes. Giving the player the ability to influence whether or not their romance will be tragic or not based on the choices they make and actions they take in game. 

 

Personally I do not enjoy tragic romances or heaps of tragedy thus if forced tragic romances were shifted to future straight male romances it would likely ween me off that content entirely, but I'm not against a BioWare allowing a player to influence their romance through the actions of their character and push it towards a brighter or darker ending with as much closure or ambiguity as they have put in the effort to attain.

 

I think my one concern with allowing player agency in influencing the level of tragedy in a romance is that most people, myself included, are always going to try for the best and happiest possible outcome.  If my character could have talked Solas into staying, she damn well would have tried, but then I don't know that I would have enjoyed the plotline of that romance as much.  So I worry that, if given the option for a happy ending, taking the tragic ending not only has the element of tragedy, but also the element of you COULD have been happy, but look what you've done to yourself.   That would kinda, for me, take it from being an excellent, tragic story to being kind of lame. 

 

Now, if there were consequences for you being selfish and chosing love over responsibility, that might work.  Say if you convince Alistair that your love is more important than his political responsibility and as King he marries your elven mage, he would basically end up losing the throne and thrusting Ferelden into another civil war?  Or worse, leaving it ripe for conquest by Orlais.  Those, I think, would be realistic political ramifications for a choice like that.   That actually makes the decision difficult.  Your happy ending vs. the lives of others.   Or would having to make that choice be too tragic?   What do you guys think?

[Shari'El]

Just curious...when does the count start?  Apparently it is ok to use ME experiences in regard to romances.  Don't have any experience But Bioware's last franchise before DA was NwN1, and there was not a more tragic ending than what happened to Aribeth.  Even if you count saving her soul from hell, in the third installment of the series, it was not by the original hero from the first official campaign.  The OC of NwN1 still counts as the worst ending for me.  Go one franchise earlier, and you had Viconia being assassinated in the epilogue. 

 

So, it has been spread around.  What was not spread around early on in Bioware's history, was the amount of choices available for everyone.  They seemed to have tried to compensate for that in DLI, with 4 choices for hetero females.  And the ladies seemed to get a not just more choices this time, but a wider variety.  The two choices the guys had, were between two nice female companions, both who had a "Disney" ending.  Nothing really special.  If a female protagonist wanted a Disney ending, it appears that was possible.  Plus, they have two others to choose from. 

 

But hey, the more the better.  Only worry is, if they try to work in too many more choices, will it take away resources from the rest of the game? 

 

When has this been turned a competition? And why?

This is not what the thread is about.

 

 

So you want all tragic romances to be optional?  I think that's what you're saying?  Can I ask for a bit of clarification?  In terms of optional do you mean like... having a walkthrough of dialogue choices and decisions that have to be made in order to have a happy ending, otherwise it ends badly?  Kind of like the ME2 suicide mission, except as a romance?

 

Or are you asking for something a little less complicated like, for example, reaching the Solas breakup point and being able to talk him out of it?  Or being able to convince him at the end to not leave, and you just get to chose if he leaves or not in that moment? 

 

What are your thoughts on how to construct that in game?

 

First thing first, I just quoted a person to clarify what they meant since you interpreted as "we don't want tragedy".

As for my personal opinion - no, tragedy has it's place, it's just that we are kind of sick of it. And yes, it would be nice if we could affect the end result, this is an RPG game, I hate it when something bad happens no matter what, but It should also make sense storywise and not ruin it obviously.

 

As for Solas - I personally want a Wolf Hunt DLC. The breakup is inevitable, and most Solas fans feel that way, we just want closure (as well as explanations, I felt that all my Inquisitors should get the opportunity to find who Solas really is). A happy ending will be great but may not be fitting. We just really don't want it to go unaddressed and we also don't want an ending where we need to kill him :| (that is really too tragic).

I think Solas specifically caused a lot of heartache because he is extremely well written and many players felt connected to him on another level, he is really well developed so I'm pretty biased when it comes to the idea of having more content with him.

I'm pretty pessimistic about Solas because he has great big plans and such, if I'll get to be pleasantly surprised when/if they get closure/happy ending I'd gladly scratch him off the list of horribly-heart-wrenching-unfair-romances.

 

Generally speaking - they write the characters, they decide their roles in the game, they could write a character that, within the boundaries of the story, has drama/conflicts (that don't involve horrible things like cheating), is well written and still will have a happy ending. It's their choices when addressing romances for straight females. This is the message we want to bring across to them. It's not a bad message, not sure why people feel the urge to step up to us.

 

When you start a BioWare game and you try to find out who sticks with you 'till the end before you play the game it means something. Straight female characters just tend to suffer from a lot of heartbreak, many of us go out of our way (and risk spoilers) to figure out who to pursue just so we won't have to deal with all of those feels.

[Shari'El]

I think my one concern with allowing player agency in influencing the level of tragedy in a romance is that most people, myself included, are always going to try for the best and happiest possible outcome.  If my character could have talked Solas into staying, she damn well would have tried, but then I don't know that I would have enjoyed the plotline of that romance as much.  So I worry that, if given the option for a happy ending, taking the tragic ending not only has the element of tragedy, but also the element of you COULD have been happy, but look what you've done to yourself.   That would kinda, for me, take it from being an excellent, tragic story to being kind of lame. 

 

Now, if there were consequences for you being selfish and chosing love over responsibility, that might work.  Say if you convince Alistair that your love is more important than his political responsibility and as King he marries your elven mage, he would basically end up losing the throne and thrusting Ferelden into another civil war?  Or worse, leaving it ripe for conquest by Orlais.  Those, I think, would be realistic political ramifications for a choice like that.   That actually makes the decision difficult.  Your happy ending vs. the lives of others.   Or would having to make that choice be too tragic?   What do you guys think?

 

There are people who chose tragic results in their playthroughs, on purpose.

Plenty of people let their warden die, or let Alistair die, or whatever, it's part of the fun in RP games.

If there is a place for agency (things that won't change the story line in a seriously drastic manner) then I think there should be a choice.

Maybe people won't experience Solas' romance to the fullest if they chose these options, but why do you care? They are perfectly content with being with Solas.

Also, many people also replay choices they did to see what is the best outcome, that's part of the game.

 

As said Solas' romance needs to be addressed in a post-end environment, a Wolf Hunt DLC for example.

[whitless256]

There are people who chose tragic results in their playthroughs, on purpose.

Plenty of people let their warden die, or let Alistair die, or whatever, it's part of the fun in RP games.

If there is a place for agency (things that won't change the story line in a seriously drastic manner) then I think there should be a choice.

Maybe people won't experience Solas' romance to the fullest if they chose these options, but why do you care? They are perfectly content with being with Solas.

Also, many people also replay choices they did to see what is the best outcome, that's part of the game.

 

As said Solas' romance needs to be addressed in a post-end environment, a Wolf Hunt DLC for example.

 

I worry about any resolution they might attempt with Solas.  It's something that, I think, is going to ride the line between perfec tragic romance and total cheese.  I mean... I can't envision how that conversation goes where he tells you the truth.  Would anyone believe him?    Which is why I'm glad he never tried to explain himself in the game.   I would hope that, if he does tell the truth, the PC has enough time to actually digest the infor before making a choice on how to feel about it.

[errantknight]

They were saying how difficult it was.
 
Mage or non-human? Either be his mistress (which sucks and is easy to miss without a guide telling you that he needs to be hardened) or keep him in the Grey Wardens. Either way the only way both of you live is if you force him sleep with another woman (ewwwwwww).
 
Have him stay in the Wardens? Then you've got to choose between him or Hawke, thus forcing another unhappy ending on you.
 
Only people that play human nobles and become queen are ultimately going to be happy it seems.

Except that they are separated and don't see each other for years. I'm glad that they don't handwave world attitudes for the sake of a special PC, myself.
I'm trying to think of any bioware romance that truly ends happily, male or female, and I can't think of one. OK, haven't played mass effect, so can't comment there, and you can have happy endings in the mmo, but kotor and dragon age? not so much. Fate always intervenes. You can wish that Bioware liked happy endings more, but I don't think you can really say it's female characters only who experience romantic difficulties.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

When has this been turned a competition? And why?

This is not what the thread is about.

To be honest, the answer is ever since the OP since they seem to imply that straight male players should get some of this type of romances to the point they single them out. Thus the other side points out that they have, and a competition starts since people from each side are saying why their experiences were worse. 

[Brass_Buckles]

Okay, I've been reading the same arguments over and over, trying to turn this into a competition.  There is no competition.  Women (mostly the straight ones) characters currently get more heartbreaker LIs than male ones, in the sense that the heartbreak (be it cheating, lying, betrayal, death, etc) is completely unavoidable.  Straight men PCs can have tragedy, but it's normally avoidtable.

 

Maybe in the past guys got tragic romances, but women were lucky in those games to get a romance at all.

 

More recently, men get romances wherein they MIGHT have a heartbreaker, but they can pretty much always have options to avoid that heartbreak.  (Not always true, gay guys who romanced Anders got betrayed too.)

 

I acknowledged, even in the first post, that some people like tragedy and that even I sometimes like it.  The problem is that I do not feel that tragedy or heartbreak or betrayal etc. is all we should get, collectively, all ANYONE should get.  But, if we are going to get such a high number of them, then the majority should not be put on women PCs as it currently has.  They should be spread around so that men PCs also get the tragedy, heartbreak, cheating, betrayal, etc.

 

Most people are okay with a very rocky relationship, most people DO want a semi-happy (though not necessarily Disney) ending.  But as I said in a previous post, I absolutely don't want to take away tragedy from those who like it, and I'm not saying I never want to see tragedy, or breakups, etc. again.  I just want to see it stop female PCs being the sole focus of this kind of romance.  Am I saying I want to see men suffer?  No; in fact I know there are men who enjoy tragedy and heartbreak stories too.

 

You can argue "tell whatever story is best," but, it's easier to say that when you aren't the one who has a better than 50% chance of your characters' romance plots ending badly.  I do not want to have to spoil myself on all of the romance content, or avoid romance entirely, just to get the ending I want for a particular character.  Sometimes, I adore a good tragedy.  Most of the time, I don't, because the in-game world is screwed up enough already, and I should be allowed to have one bright spot in it for my characters.  Do I think Solas's story was excellent?  Yes, but it lacked closure (and by closure, I'd be fine with it being truly over--but it's worse than cruel to not even let players lock him in until he dumps them).  But I think there was absolutely no need to do certain things in Blackwall's romance (sex and leaving her naked alone in a barn before she even knew the truth?  That's just beyond skeevy... seriously... and he was intended to be the primary romance for straight women; I ask you: what on Earth were they thinking when they came to believe that was a good idea???).  Thane never needed to die.  Jacob never needed to cheat.  But, players of female characters have no control over any of it.

 

This isn't about who has the most romance, or who suffered more ten or twenty years ago.  This is about a problem that I've noticed, and that others have noticed, in the present.

 

My proposed solutions:  Either make heartbreak type endings for romances optional for all characters (not just optional for men, while being inevitable for women), by depending upon player actions during the romance plot, OR, spread them around evenly so that female characters do not have more than 50% of these kinds of endings.  Alternatively they could be reduced in number in general, but even then I want to see that players of male characters get heartbreaker romances as much as women do.

[phaonica]

My proposed solutions:  Either make heartbreak type endings for romances optional for all characters (not just optional for men, while being inevitable for women), by depending upon player actions during the romance plot, OR, spread them around evenly so that female characters do not have more than 50% of these kinds of endings.  Alternatively they could be reduced in number in general, but even then I want to see that players of male characters get heartbreaker romances as much as women do.

 

So... unavoidable tragedy in a romance is fine, so long as both the male and female romances are subjected to it equally?

[LadyJaneGrey]

*snip*

 

My proposed solutions:  Either make heartbreak type endings for romances optional for all characters (not just optional for men, while being inevitable for women), by depending upon player actions during the romance plot, OR, spread them around evenly so that female characters do not have more than 50% of these kinds of endings.  Alternatively they could be reduced in number in general, but even then I want to see that players of male characters get heartbreaker romances as much as women do.

 

I really, really don't want option A.  One of the main reasons I like Bioware characters (and Obsidian characters) are they're distinct individuals that have their own core beliefs or goals that they won't compromise.  Morrigan, Anders, Solas wouldn't be who they are if I could choose three dialog options in the course of the game and have them dump their end goals by the end of that particular installment.

 

As to option B: going down the list of available LIs in the DA games, I didn't see a great imbalance, but assuming it's there...why not play a straight man/gay woman/bi individual?

 

I'm not trying to be mean - I like some of the romances that end more happily as well - but it seems like griping about a few individual moments in specific story arcs across multiple games and franchises more than an overarching problem that needs to be addressed.

[Hattress]

So... unavoidable tragedy in a romance is fine, so long as both the male and female romances are subjected to it equally?

I guess that will just show BW have special preference for tragic romance ending and then i don't see the problem. If they think bitter ending will add some flavor to the story and people are enjoying it, why not? FF series always like to include something to break your heart, but what's the problem if developers believe that is good?  

If BW truly thinks some inevitable tragic romance makes the game better, why not spread such experience equally so people playing male can enjoy them as well? 

And if they think such tragic is what people playing straight female like, then we are here to express that at least there are some people who don't enjoy them as much as BW might think.

 

Edit: if BW decides to spread those inevitable tragic evenly and someone has a problem with it, they can always start another post. After all here is the place we give our feedback & suggestions right? 

The point I want to make here is just to make our voice heard--there are people who play as straight female and are tired of these tragic/lies/cheats/ dumping you away which we can do nothing.

[wildannie]

You are free to differentiate them and others are free to disagree.  That's the point I've been trying to make.  Everyone sees things differently.  Thus it's very hard to regulate what is a "tragic" romance and what is not for the purposes of seperating them out and evening them up among men and women.  That's the reason people are offering examples to the contrary. 

 

And the reason I'm offering my opinion on this is because I feel that I'd like my perspective represented in the discussion so that Bioware knows that the tragic female romances are not universally reviled.   I would rather they be true to a character's personality than bend that to make a happy romance.  That's why these are called discussion boards.  So that people can make their opinions heard and discuss things.

 

I'm sorry if some people feel like those of us that disagree are disregarding their feelings.  Romances in these games are very much BASED on feeling, so they can be a highly charged, emotional experience.  Tears are shed and you hurt when your character hurts.  That's why there are so many strong emotions here... and I, for one, am not trying to disrgard the emotions people feel for their characters' heartbreaks. 

 

But like I said in my initial post, I'm very confused on what everyone wants.  You are saying you want the pain spread around, but then you're saying that the tragic romances of past games (Thane, Jacob, Solas) shouldn't have been tragic.  So I think my one question would be, if Male Shep had an LI that died like Thane did, or a woman that cheated on him like Jacob did, would you have been less upset by those romances?  Or would you still be offering sugestions for how they could be changed to work out better?   I'm not asking in an acusitory fashion, but I'd like to know the answer so I can kind of get a feel for what the folks in this discussion really are advocating for.

 

If Josephine had walked out on my inquisitor to mary that Antivan noble due to family obligation and I had no way of stopping it, would Solas walking out for reasons of obligation be okay?

 

What I want is simple.  When it comes to LIs I always want some agency as to the eventual outcome.  I also like drama, but only if it is possible (however hard) to resolve, or optional.

 

I think my one concern with allowing player agency in influencing the level of tragedy in a romance is that most people, myself included, are always going to try for the best and happiest possible outcome.  If my character could have talked Solas into staying, she damn well would have tried, but then I don't know that I would have enjoyed the plotline of that romance as much.  So I worry that, if given the option for a happy ending, taking the tragic ending not only has the element of tragedy, but also the element of you COULD have been happy, but look what you've done to yourself.   That would kinda, for me, take it from being an excellent, tragic story to being kind of lame. 

 

Now, if there were consequences for you being selfish and chosing love over responsibility, that might work.  Say if you convince Alistair that your love is more important than his political responsibility and as King he marries your elven mage, he would basically end up losing the throne and thrusting Ferelden into another civil war?  Or worse, leaving it ripe for conquest by Orlais.  Those, I think, would be realistic political ramifications for a choice like that.   That actually makes the decision difficult.  Your happy ending vs. the lives of others.   Or would having to make that choice be too tragic?   What do you guys think?

 

I really don't think it is very valid to expect others to endure forced outcomes because you are not prepared to RP choices that would lead to tragedy.  I want choices so that some stories can end tragically, and others happily, having outcomes that lack variation is simply boring, and frustrating.

[Ceoldoren]

I generally go female. I don't really have a problem with all the tragic romances. It's never felt like they were intentionally making them female LI's. Just that the characters happened to be written in such a way that they are both straight and tragic.

 

 

The Anders romance ending in tragedy is really a player decision. You can choose to let him live and stay with him if you like. 

[phaonica]

I guess that will just show BW have special preference for tragic romance ending and then i don't see the problem. If they think bitter ending will add some flavor to the story and people are enjoying it, why not? FF series always like to include something to break your heart, but what's the problem if developers believe that is good?  

If BW truly thinks some inevitable tragic romance makes the game better, why not spread such experience equally so people playing male can enjoy them as well? 

And if they think such tragic is what people playing straight female like, then we are here to express that at least there are some people who don't enjoy them as much as BW might think.

 

Because they're not necessarily thinking to themselves "What this romance really needs is a tragedy." They might be thinking "If we make this character romanceable, there's no way it wouldn't be tragic" and they go with it anyway.

 

If they are injecting tragedy into romances, then yes, I would say that ideally everyone should have the option to enjoy them equally. Ideally.

[Ray561]

you get 4 choices in this game and every one else gets 2 and because one is tragic and another one lies about his identity you say it's unfair wow greedy much?.

[Thiefy]

I feel like people are making this more complicated that what's actually present.

 

The situation is that most of the sucker punch endings come from male LIs.

 

That does not mean straight females have "worse" options compared to everyone else.

That does not mean no tragedy ever. That does not mean all sunshine and rainbows.

That does not mean everyone else has "better" than straight females.

That does not mean only straight females have experienced a sad romance.

 

That means that statistically, love interests who are male are more likely to be/have been the tragic/sad/bullshit romances.

 

People are upset at the relatively high probability of their romance going south and not being able to do anything about. 

 

This can be fixed by either lowering the tragic romances all together (which a lot of people seem to be against?) or offloading some of that tragedy onto female love interests.