you get 4 choices in this game and every one else gets 2 and because one is tragic and another one lies about his identity you say it's unfair wow greedy much?.
Ehh, it does go a little deeper than that. I don't agree that it's really an issue. But the pattern is certainly there. (I don't really consider Jacob tragic, but that's subjective.)
you get 4 choices in this game and every one else gets 2 and because one is tragic and another one lies about his identity you say it's unfair wow greedy much?.
Did you even read the first post?
Ehh, it does go a little deeper than that. I don't agree that it's really an issue. But the pattern is certainly there. (I don't really consider Jacob tragic, but that's subjective.)
I will say this Jacob was a dick move, but I have no sympathy for thane he told you he was going to die the moment you met him the way he went out was great as well very heroic.
I will say this Jacob was a dick move, but I have no sympathy for thane he told you he was going to die the moment you met him the way he went out was great as well very heroic.
I think the issue for most people is not that he dies. It's that literally no one mentions or notices. Like seriously, no one cares at all. It really killed it for people who romanced Thane like myself.
At least his Citadel content was good...
Because they're not necessarily thinking to themselves "What this romance really needs is a tragedy." They might be thinking "If we make this character romanceable, there's no way it wouldn't be tragic" and they go with it anyway.
If they are injecting tragedy into romances, then yes, I would say that ideally everyone should have the option to enjoy them equally. Ideally.
and we are here just hoping that next time BW may consider not giving straight female LI so much tragedy because we are getting bored and tired.
And I actually don't think all these tragedy are inevitable. For Solas, Anders or even Alistar, maybe yes. But for example, Black Wall's romance would be much better if he at least refuse to sleep with inquisitor until his true identity is revealed.
As for Jacob and Thane, I can only imagine the reason why their romance end like that is because BW don't want to invest more resource and just pick up some convenient but stupid reasons. (Before Citedel DLC your crew member won't even give any comment on Thane's death)
For me tragedy itself is not the problem, I can even accept Solas kill Lavellan in the future if the story is well told. But I hate tragedies when there are too many and a number of them are poorly constructed or can definitely find a way to work out better.
Now my greatest concern is that BW might not want to invest more resource in Solas romance and give it a stupid tragic ending. If that was the case I guess I will just got mad and stop playing BW game in the future...
I think the issue for most people is not that he dies. It's that literally no one mentions or notices. Like seriously, no one cares at all. It really killed it for people who romanced Thane like myself.
At least his Citadel content was good...
Yes his citadel content was very nice a nice way of rectifying the problem just like they did with morrigan
and we are here just hoping that next time BW may consider not giving straight female LI so much tragedy because we are getting bored and tired.
And I actually don't think all these tragedy are inevitable. For Solas, Anders or even Alistar, maybe yes. But for example, Black Wall's romance would be much better if he at least refuse to sleep with inquisitor until his true identity is revealed.
Well I personally think I'd be more bored with a romance story that didn't have some kind of drama or conflict in it, but that's just me.
I would hope that when the Bioware writer's sit down to write, they consider the following things in this order:
1) What are the main plotlines of the story, and what endings are we going to have possible? (Assuming that they have a plan for future storylines in future DA's that they are trying to link together).
2) What stories/quests will be in the game that will lead to the endings?
3) What will be the main characters, besides the player character, that will be present in this world?
4) What are the objectives of these NPCs, what is their past, and how will their purposes coincide or conflict with the PC and the main story ending?
5) Which of these NPCs work best as LI for the PC?
6) What direction(s) will/can this NPC's romance story go, while staying within the bounds of the NPC's main purpose in the overall story?
7) Have we (the writers) balanced out the LI romances to fairly give the most equitable amount of choices to all possible demographics that will/may/might play this game?
Well I personally think I'd be more bored with a romance story that didn't have some kind of drama or conflict in it, but that's just me.
Then as someone else already post, drama/conflict doesn't mean it have to go wrong and you can't do anything to save your relationship.
At this point straight male doesn't have so many inevitable bitter element in their romance options, but they are not complaining "the romance we get are so boring come on we need drama and conflict! "right?
But if you do enjoy these inevitable tragedies, of course you are free to express your idea.
Again, we just want to make our voice and our feeling heard.
Hattress: "At this point straight male(s) don't have so many inevitable bitter elements in their romance options, but they are not complaining "the romances we get are so boring, come on we need drama and conflict" right?
Actually, it has been mentioned. But for me, there are so many larger issues that this game has, having a more interesting LI story could not salvage it. Thus, I have not been bothering to start threads decrying the boring male hetero LI's. Though, it would certainly be far more entertaining if the prime requisite I needed to make my LI happy, was to do more than to buy her some candy and flowers. As I have mentioned before, the best, most memorable romance options I have played in the past, always, 100% of the time were enhanced, if it was a challenge. Perhaps the Disney romance, which was Cassandra, would have been much more compelling, if more had been written after the love scene. After that, it was basically completed, and nothing left to do. Only issue was who was going to be named the next Divine, and apparently I had done everything right, because Cassandra was not chosen.
Then as someone else already post, drama/conflict doesn't mean it have to go wrong and you can't do anything to save your relationship.
At this point straight male doesn't have so many inevitable bitter element in their romance options, but they are not complaining "the romance we get are so boring come on we need drama and conflict! "right?
But if you do enjoy these inevitable tragedies, of course you are free to express your idea.
Again, we just want to make our voice and our feeling heard.
Oh, straight males complain about their romances, trust me...
But I'm sure Bioware will take what you guys are saying into consideration. Having said that, I would be disappointed if they altered a character just so he would have a tragic ending to his optional romance. That's a problem.
Hattress: "At this point straight male(s) don't have so many inevitable bitter elements in their romance options, but they are not complaining "the romances we get are so boring, come on we need drama and conflict" right?
Actually, it has been mentioned. But for me, there are so many larger issues that this game has, having a more interesting LI story could not salvage it. Though, it would certainly be far more entertaining if the prime requisite I needed to make my LI happy, was to buy some candy and flowers. As I have mentioned before, the best, most memorable romance options I have played in the past, always, 100% of the time were enhanced, if it was a challenge. Perhaps the Disney romance, which was Cassandra, would have been much more compelling, if more had been written after the love scene. After that, it was basically completed, and nothing left to do. Only issue was who was going to be named the next Divine, and apparently I had done everything right, because Cassandra was not chosen.
I guess those who complain are not asking for some inevitable tragedies? Challenges are likely to be welcomed, yes. But inevitable doom, poorly constructed break-off?
Those who are talking about drama or conflict are not likely to want Isabella cheating her romance Hawk and steal something important away at the end of game and they can't do anything about it.
Again, just want to say maybe some enjoy such inevitable tragedies, but there are other getting tired of it. BW please find some other ways to employ drama/conflict for straight female LI
I guess those who complain are not asking for some inevitable tragedies? Challenges are likely to be welcomed, yes. But inevitable doom, poorly constructed break-off?
Those who are talking about drama or conflict are not likely to want Isabella cheating her romance Hawk and steal something important away at the end of game and they can't do anything about it.
Again, just want to say maybe some enjoy such inevitable tragedies, but there are other getting tired of it. BW please find some other ways to employ drama/conflict for straight female LI
The only poorly constructed break-off I've seen is Jacob. So I'll have to disagree there.
what do you enjoy about it? please let me know
Then as someone else already post, drama/conflict doesn't mean it have to go wrong and you can't do anything to save your relationship.
But if you do enjoy these inevitable tragedies, of course you are free to express your idea.
Again, we just want to make our voice and our feeling heard.
what do you enjoy about it? please let me know
I enjoy the characters, I find almost all of them to be well written and interesting. I enjoy the world, it oozes atmosphere. Crafting is very nicely done. Most of the main quests are interesting. Combat is fairly good, though the tactics and 8 slot ability bar are annoying.
So yes, I very much enjoyed my time with the game, sorry if you didn't.
I enjoy the characters, I find almost all of them to be well written and interesting. I enjoy the world, it oozes atmosphere. Crafting is very nicely done. Most of the main quests are interesting. Combat is fairly good, though the tactics and 8 slot ability bar are annoying.
So yes, I very much enjoyed my time with the game, sorry if you didn't.
oh I refuse to play it till they patch it up most likely ill go play something else for awhile and come backit theres some good aspects to it like the world but it needs work
oh I refuse to play it till they patch it up most likely ill go play something else for awhile and come back t it
That's fair enough. But let's not derail the thread.
Okay, I've been reading this thread over, and there seems to be a big miscommunication. There's a big difference between drama, hoop jumping (Alistair) and tragedy. I know this post is full of YVMM, but this is how I'm seeing it.
Zevran--This is a romance that has a pretty warm and fuzzy ending. However, it doesn't lack for drama. For starters, Zev's backstory is rather sad. He was abducted by slavers, sold to the Crows, raised in brothels while being trained to kill. His whole appearance starts out because he has a death trip. Zev knows that going against the Warden is suicidal. One of the cruxes of his romance arc is getting him to stop putting on the front of being charming and flirting and start getting to know him as a person. Also, the last person he loved he ended up killing, and the player helps him get past it.
Garrus--I would dare call Garrus the most popular female romance in the ME series, and one of the most popular with female fans of BW games. This guy is full of conflict and drama, even before the player can romance him. In ME1 alone, you can help him choose between C-Sec and Spectre. In ME2, you can help him shoot his former friend. Also, regardless of decision, the player usually comforts him and helps it through it. You can see an inner turmoil and conflict. In ME3, while the drama isn't focused between Garrus and Shep, there is still some huge stuff out there. Part of what made that arc special for me in ME3 was seeing old friends and lovers comforting each other while their planets are both burning.
Fenris--Another one that ends on a pretty high note, but that romance has a lot of conflict and drama. Fenris' backstory has been discussed on the BSN, pretty frequently. His whole attitude about being angry and scared adds a sense of uncertainty. Plus, I remember the first time he leaves Hawke after sex, being too freaked out by his memories. I thought it was pretty well done, and I liked that the player had to maintain some patience. Also, we can't forget that, romance status or not, you have to convince him not to rip out his own sister's heart in Act 3. That moment was full of tension and uncertainty. However, imho, the loyalty that the player and Fenris both show each other despite all the turmoil makes it worth it.
Iron Bull--I feel like some folks occasionally dismissed his depths and inner demons. This is a man that's really caught between his native culture and his adopted one. The way his speech swings from more of a concise Qun manner to a more causal tone illustrates this. When the player has the choice between the Qun and the Chargers, it's a pretty tense moment. You can see the conflict, and he does talk about it with the player later. He does come to terms with it quickly, but you can still see the pain that lingers. His PSTD is subtle, but I think it was played up brilliantly.
Cullen--I saved him for last for a reason. He'll be the character who surprised me for the most in Inquistion. I can't say that I had any strong feelings for Cullen prior to this game, but I've grown to like him. His story, particularly when it comes to lyrium and his struggles with it, struck home with me on a personal level. He's a professional, but at the same time has many issues that I think can be related to in our world. Having to deal with this black and white view about the world being shattered twice. The lyrium withdrawl, which is honestly the best depiction of drug withdrawl I've seen in a mainstream game yet. It's one of the most realistic and thoughtful takes on the subject I've seen in a BW game. With the player (especially in a romance,) helping him work through those demons and learning to be himself is a pretty deep and serious story.
I listed the above because I wanted to show that deep stories and dramatic events happen in BW romances all the time without going into extreme heartbreak. And yet, even with those examples of the ones that end with the female hero not going through sheer hell, still outweigh the times that they do. We can have some balance I think between the utterly tragedy/needless hoop jumping and a good story with a happier ending.
Edit: Don't feed the trolls guys. Just report, ignore and move on. 
The only poorly constructed break-off I've seen is Jacob. So I'll have to disagree there.
For me Thane's ending is no better than Jacob before release of of Citadel DLC since he's death seems not noticed by anyone else. Most likely because they didn't bother to invest more resource to create some comment from the crew for it at that point.
It is fortunate that I romanced Zev in DAO and Fenris in DA2, but I can understand one who preferred Alistar and Anders in previous game, or get the bad luck romance Kaiden in ME1, Jacob or Thane in ME2, get frustrated and want some change.
Yes, there has to be conflict, and it doesn't have to ALWAYS have a happy ending. However, it seems it USUALLY doesn't. If the character seems at all interesting, he will have a bad ending... Thane - Solas - Blackwall - and by the way I am doing the Blackwall romance now and even though his behavior is, let's say, challenging, I do like him and I did NOT know about the disappearing thing...Question, romance stories tend to have a certain amount of conflict in them because stories are like that, so what's the threshold for too much despair here? Is the happy ending the main factor? .
My other point has been that not EVERYONE who plays female characters is sick of the tragedy.
I believe this thread is largely about the preferences of heterosexual women players. If you're arguing against reducing the frequency of heartbreak romances for women because male players may enjoy playing women who are cheated on, lied to, and/or abandoned, I find that ... icky--but perhaps I mistake your meaning.
The thread title states "make fewer" not "eliminate" such romances for women. I think most understand that tastes vary and don't see folks arguing that Bioware should only write happy stories for female protagonists. It's more that many of us feel that we've been overly blessed in the heartbreak department. The basic premises of many of the character arcs under discussion: terminal illness, cheating, a murderer passing themself off as a Grey Warden, obsession with a dead spouse could apply to a female love interest as well as a male. Think of us as willing to share the wealth. 
I also suspect that Blackwell would cause a lot less concern if his romance were originally conceived as one of four rather than as the heterosexual female's alternative to Iron Bull. I like the Bull a lot more than I expected to but having read Sten and Morrigan's exchange in DAO about the Qunari sex act, I can't imagine romancing him as a non-Qunari female. I don't see any character I would play romancing Blackwall, but could accept his inclusion as one of two if the other choice for the type of character I usually play were more traditionally appealing, not issue-free, but less problematic than Blackwall or a giant likely physically to injure a more petite partner.
snip
It does my heart good to see a voice of reason who can explain what a lot of us are feeling so well chime in. I'm not the best with words so I couldn't really say anything earlier when a bunch of people started making posts that I felt tried to invalidate many shared feelings on this matter. I'm glad you exist.
Also, this is just my opinion, but I find that some of the most satisfying kinds of drama and conflict are those that can be triumphed over. While it's not always terrible when tragedy inevitably happens I prefer stories where things turn out at least relatively alright.
It does my heart good to see a voice of reason who can explain what a lot of us are feeling so well chime in. I'm not the best with words so I couldn't really say anything earlier when a bunch of people started making posts that I felt tried to invalidate many shared feelings on this matter. I'm glad you exist.
Also, this is just my opinion, but I find that some of the most satisfying kinds of drama and conflict are those that can be triumphed over. While it's not always terrible when tragedy inevitably happens I prefer stories where things turn out at least relatively alright.
Thank you.
I also think there should be room in the romances for tragic endings. I think there is something special that would be lost if those kinds of romances went away all together. These have been some powerful moments for many players and to remove that entirely that would take away some of the impact of the overall story. I mean, it's Dragon Age after all and it seems like for every hero that rises, one falls. It makes sense to me that not everyone is going to make it out okay. Or want/need to stay til the end.
For the female heroes, I just want to see less of it on the male LIs in the future. I know the devs and writers do lurk for threads like this. Otherwise, they wouldn't have continued to make these romances better for the female hero as time has gone on. I feel safe saying that most of us that are discussing our dislike of this type of story arc aren't saying make everything always turn out perfect.
It doesn't always have to end on a high note, I'd just like a little more "Fenris/Zevran/Garrus/IB" type romances and less "Solas/Blackwall/Jacob/Thane/or Alistair style-hoop jumping." There needs to be both, but I'd like to see it evened out more among the LIs for the heroes.
Okay, I've been reading this thread over, and there seems to be a big miscommunication. There's a big difference between drama, hoop jumping (Alistair) and tragedy. I know this post is full of YVMM, but this is how I'm seeing it.
I listed the above because I wanted to show that deep stories and dramatic events happen in BW romances all the time without going into extreme heartbreak. And yet, even with those examples of the ones that end with the female hero not going through sheer hell, still outweigh the times that they do. We can have some balance I think between the utterly tragedy/needless hoop jumping and a good story with a happier ending.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it looks to me like you're saying that the times that the female PC romance does NOT end in inevitable tragedy outweighs the times that they do. It seems that there are plenty of options for a romance that, while they include drama, end out alright.
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