1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

More Disney with your Dragon Age then?

 

Because we all know the opposite of drama is disney.

 

*looks at cullen*

 

Yeah recovering from addiction. So disney like.

[Dakota Strider]

(Sorry, copy and paste, nor hitting "quote" works for me here, will try to make comments in context).

 

Merrill, yeah she was sweet, and loyal.  And a blood mage.  Seems like Hawke had some big hang ups about that, we are just supposed to ignore?  She was not an evil bloodmage (yet), I will grant you that.

 

Isabella, yeah, I got her approval high enough that she came back.  And I really do not object to her stealing the book and running away.  And in the end it seemed to work out.  Although...why the hell she is at the other end of Thedas when Hawke is risking his life in Ferelden and Orlais without her?

 

Aribeth- yep you saved her from Hell.  Had to do that.  (never thought she deserved to go there in the first place).  But, its not even your character from the first OC that gets to rescue her. 

 

BG2-  I thought there was more than one choice for females.  Perhaps I am thinking of some player mods, that added more companions. 

 

And, I think I know who you mean in NwN1, some guard or something.   Not trying to excuse Bioware's decisions in sharing the love.  No doubt, in earlier games, the fairer gender had less to choose from.

 

Cannot speak for ME, or any other BW games I have not spoken about.  ME3 was a forgettable game for me, and I had not tried the others.

 

Just curious, how is the Queen of Ferelden gig going?  (that was an option, right?)

[Ryzaki]

At least Solas has a much more convincing excuse. Jacob is an arsehole.

He didn't even last six months.

 

Freaking VS waits for you past death but Jacob couldn't keep it in his pants for six months.

[Bliss]

More Disney with your Dragon Age then?

 

Who said anything about Disney? Why does it have to be that black and white? Either candy coated rainbows or slit your wrist sadness? Why can't we ask for a good struggle, some bumps and bruises, with a good ending making it worth the pain?

 

 

Just curious, how is the Queen of Ferelden gig going?  (that was an option, right?)

 

Just pointing out you had to play a female noble to even get that option. Guys had the same option with Anora. So...technically you can chalk Anora up to another option guys had that was a happy ending?

[Natashina]

Incorrect. Cassandra breaks off the romance if she becomes the Divine. If Alistair counts for doing that but you have the option to be his mistress so you're still together, then Cassandra definitely counts since it is the same thing except you don't have the option to remain her lover. 

I have trouble counting Cassandra, because a very simple solution is to not make her Divine.  The male hero is able to avoid the breakup pretty easily, since there is two other candidates.  

 

You don't have to have her sleep with another man to save lives, do you?  She won't die if she refuses sex with another man, right?  Does she leave no matter what, regardless of the decision to make her Divine?    Is she lying about her identity the whole time?  Is she an unmitigated jerk?  Does she blow up a church and trigger a war?  

 

The answer to all of that is no.  Which is why Cassandra doesn't quite count to me.

 

With Alistair, you get to be his mistress, sure.  If he's hardened.  If you allow him to sleep with another woman.  If you pick the exact right answer at the exact right time.   That's part of the problem: Time and time again, the female hero is left with little to no choice.  Solas will leave you no matter what.  No player agency allowed.  Blackwall has to be a liar no matter what.  

 

DA writers, I love ya, but this has gotten very very old.

[Kimberly]

He didn't even last six months.
 
Freaking VS waits for you past death but Jacob couldn't keep it in his pants for six months.

I had a save with Jacob as a romance. I was so pissed when I found out what he did in ME3, I ended up deleting that save. I had no interest in importing in, even if I could just start something with Kaidan.

[Brass_Buckles]

(Sorry, copy and paste, nor hitting "quote" works for me here, will try to make comments in context).

 

Merrill, yeah she was sweet, and loyal.  And a blood mage.  Seems like Hawke had some big hang ups about that, we are just supposed to ignore?  She was not an evil bloodmage (yet), I will grant you that.

 

Isabella, yeah, I got her approval high enough that she came back.  And I really do not object to her stealing the book and running away.  And in the end it seemed to work out.  Although...why the hell she is at the other end of Thedas when Hawke is risking his life in Ferelden and Orlais without her?

 

Aribeth- yep you saved her from Hell.  Had to do that.  (never thought she deserved to go there in the first place).  But, its not even your character from the first OC that gets to rescue her. 

 

BG2-  I thought there was more than one choice for females.  Perhaps I am thinking of some player mods, that added more companions. 

 

And, I think I know who you mean in NwN1, some guard or something.   Not trying to excuse Bioware's decisions in sharing the love.  No doubt, in earlier games, the fairer gender had less to choose from.

 

Cannot speak for ME, or any other BW games I have not spoken about.  ME3 was a forgettable game for me, and I had not tried the others.

 

Just curious, how is the Queen of Ferelden gig going?  (that was an option, right?)

 

Queen of Ferelden is only an option if you are human noble, not a mage, not an elf, not a dwarf.  It wasn't an option available to me in my first playthrough (nor for a lot of people).  And I replayed the ending repeatedly on my elf mage, trying to get SOME kind of good ending--but I hadn't hardened Alistair, so he was doomed to die or ditch my poor sweet little elf.  I give Alistair a bit of leeway simply because of all the choices involved, but really, it was made ridiculously difficult to have any sort of happiness with him (and I don't consider being someone's mistress a happy ending, in any case).  The choices all made sense, though, except for that one where he literally refuses to let you kill the Archdemon.  That should never have happened without the player being able to prevent it.  I had every intention of making that sacrifice myself, in front of him, to make him feel every bit of pain he inflicted on my elf 'cause she was super-nice and adorable and how dare he.  Yes, I was feeling a bit vindictive (funny because I tried replaying DA:O and no longer really even like Alistair...)

 

As for Cass, I did wonder whether she left the Inquisitor romantically on becoming Divine.  I am not sure it counts, because surely you had some idea that making her Divine would mean vows of chastity or the like (I assumed so, at least).  With Alistair, it's almost astronomically difficult to get a happy ending if you haven't already played the game/didn't already know what you had to do in order to do so.  Remarkably enough, it seems the majority of players prefer to be nice in at least their first playthrough.

[Kimberly]

I have trouble counting Cassandra, because a very simple solution is to not make her Divine.  The male hero is able to avoid the breakup not too easily, since there is two other candidates.   You don't have to have her sleep with another man to save lives, do you?  She won't die if she refuses sex with another man, right?  Does she leave no matter what, regardless of the decision to make her Divine?    Is she lying about her identity the whole time?  Is she an unmitigated jerk?  Does she blow up a church and trigger a war?  
 
The answer to all of that is no.  Which is why Cassandra doesn't quite count to me.
 
With Alistair, you get to be his mistress, sure.  If you allow him to sleep with another woman.  If you pick the exact right answer at the exact right time.   That's part of the problem: Time and time again, the female hero is left with little to no choice.

And if you decide to run off into the sunset and be wardens with Alistair, what happens to him I DAI? Made me change my default state because I couldn't do that to him or my Hawke.

[MelissaGT]

*snip*

 

Not all of us want Cullen or Kaidan types, and Cullen/Kaidan types are not the only kind of love interest that can both be interesting and end well.

 

*snip*

 

I honestly don't see how Cullen is anything like Kaidan. I can't stand Kaidan, but Cullen is my favorite Bioware romance. As a "30-something," it's nice to finally have a romance in a game that is just two people simply meeting and falling in love. 

 

And nobody thinks to mention Garrus? He's my 2nd favorite...behind Cullen by just a hair! 

[Isaidlunch]

@Natashina Jacob and Solas are the exact opposite of what I meant, thought that was pretty obvious.

[Natashina]

And if you decide to run off into the sunset and be wardens with Alistair, what happens to him I DAI? Made me change my default state because I couldn't do that to him or my Hawke.

Oh, surely they are doing fin-

 

War Table Mission: Find the HoF

Story Quest Mission: Alistair/Hawke.

 

Okay, maybe not.

[Imryll]

If Bioware truly believes that heartbreak is fun, they should be prepared to distribute it in a non-discriminatory way. If they think that some groups wouldn't enjoy being cheated on or abandoned maybe they should think hard about whether it's all that much fun for anyone, at least as a regular diet.

 

Romances that carry special plot significance (Alistair, Solas) get more slack, but I can't imagine how they thought Blackwall was a good choice for DAI's primary romance for heterosexual females. I remember seeing a cartoon pre-release in which a group of characters were characterized as members of Team Vulgar. This group included both of the original romance choices for heterosexual women and the exclusive lesbian choice. Didn't it occur to the writers that while some women would love these choices that a good many others might want to play characters who wouldn't fit in with the team? With the additions of Solas and Cullen that ceased to be an immediate issue, but those were bonus romances, that could easily have been cut.

[SardaukarElite]

Question, romance stories tend to have a certain amount of conflict in them because stories are like that, so what's the threshold for too much despair here? Is the happy ending the main factor?

 

Also, does it change things if the romance is only potentially tragic? Alistair is a maze of tragedy (it's quite remarkable really) so that's not what I mean, just that if the romance can go either way does that make it better?

 

There are lots of us over in the Solas thread who want a DLC, even if it means confirmation that it's truly and officially over--but we'd prefer something considerably happier.

 

Female protagonists don't usually get DLC to make things all better and put a Band-Aid on the wound, though; however, much as I'd like some Solas resolution DLC, I'm not really asking for it here.  Just... less pain in the future would be nice, yes?

 

Solas is apparently fairly plot critical so you never know. I think it would make more sense for any Inquisitor to go after Solas than any Warden to go after Morrigan.

 

More Disney with your Dragon Age then?

 

I wouldn't object to replacing all the combat and sex scenes with interactive songs.

[Asakti]

You could also add Sera to that list, since she will dump a Dalish Inquisitor if they don't agree that the Temple of Mythal is nonsense.

[sandalisthemaker]

I feel for you.

 

The female PC indeed does have to deal with a lot of tragedy in their romances. I would hate to have the gay options lying, cheating, leaving and/or dying a significant portion of the time. 

[Natashina]

You could also add Sera to that list, since she will dump a Dalish Inquisitor if they don't agree that the Temple of Mythal is nonsense.

We'll talking about the romances for the straight female PC in this case.   Sera has a lot of shades of this as well.  It's just as valid as what Brass is referring to, but this isn't the thread for it.  I'm not trying to be dismissive at all, but I'm trying to keep this more on topic.

 

I feel for you.

 

The female PC indeed does have to deal with a lot of tragedy in their romances. I would hate to have the gay options lying, cheating, leaving and/or dying a significant portion of the time. 

<glances at Zev, Cortez, Anders>

 

You've definitely gotten your share as a gay man.  

[sandalisthemaker]

 

 

<glances at Zev, Cortez, Anders>

 

You've definitely gotten your share as a gay man.  

 

 

Anders betrays the player, sure, but Steve won't die if he's romanced. Zevran's romance ends pretty happily. I don't think Zev can betray you if romanced. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[KaiserShep]

More Disney with your Dragon Age then?

It's a little disheartening that a romance that doesn't have a crappy ending in a story is dismissed as "Disney". Speaking of Disney, one of my favorite love stories of recent quite literally dies in a movie within the first 15 minutes (UP). Anyway, sometimes it's nice to have a romance arc that doesn't end miserably or stupidly like Jacob.

[Natashina]

Anders, sure, but Steve won't die if he's romanced. Zevran's romance ends pretty happily. 

Ah, true enough.  Also, Steve won't die if femShep is a good friend to him.

 

 

It's a little disheartening that a romance that doesn't have a crappy ending in a story is dismissed as "Disney". Speaking of Disney, one of my favorite love stories of recent quite literally dies in a movie within the first 15 minutes (UP). Anyway, sometimes it's nice to have a romance arc that doesn't end miserably or stupidly like Jacob.

HERE HERE! 

[Shades of Night]

Queen of Ferelden is only an option if you are human noble, not a mage, not an elf, not a dwarf.  It wasn't an option available to me in my first playthrough (nor for a lot of people).  And I replayed the ending repeatedly on my elf mage, trying to get SOME kind of good ending--but I hadn't hardened Alistair, so he was doomed to die or ditch my poor sweet little elf.  I give Alistair a bit of leeway simply because of all the choices involved, but really, it was made ridiculously difficult to have any sort of happiness with him (and I don't consider being someone's mistress a happy ending, in any case).  The choices all made sense, though, except for that one where he literally refuses to let you kill the Archdemon.  That should never have happened without the player being able to prevent it.  I had every intention of making that sacrifice myself, in front of him, to make him feel every bit of pain he inflicted on my elf 'cause she was super-nice and adorable and how dare he.  Yes, I was feeling a bit vindictive (funny because I tried replaying DA:O and no longer really even like Alistair...)

 

As for Cass, I did wonder whether she left the Inquisitor romantically on becoming Divine.  I am not sure it counts, because surely you had some idea that making her Divine would mean vows of chastity or the like (I assumed so, at least).  With Alistair, it's almost astronomically difficult to get a happy ending if you haven't already played the game/didn't already know what you had to do in order to do so.  Remarkably enough, it seems the majority of players prefer to be nice in at least their first playthrough.

 

I had the same thing happen with one of my Wardens. Elf romanced Alistair and wanted him to be king, then he goes and steals the spotlight in the last fight I reloaded and pointedly didn't take him with her in that last fight so my Warden would be the one who died.

 

It is very interesting about Cassandra being Divine and breaking things off though. Because you can ask Leliana if she was that close with the previous Divine (she gets offended). I mean I would have thought that it might have been similar to the way things were with Alistair as King in that you could stay her lover as long as it was out of the public eye. That's a bit disappointing.

[Dakota Strider]

I definitely see the reason for wanting a change of pace.  However, I still believe some of the most satisfying romance role play in games has been when there has been some conflict.  The romances that seemed to go the smoothest, were just not that memorable.  Of course, once you traverse all the obstacles, it seems like you should have earned a happy ending.

 

Going back to Alistair female ending.  Forgot about the problems of being non-human in that regard.  I played humans almost 90% of the time, so I tend to think most other people do as well (mistakenly).  Another question in regards to DAO from your perspective:  Was there any banter between Alistair and any other rivals for your attention, I guess Zevron being the main alternative?  One of the more entertaining parts of the male DAO romance, was Morrigan and Leliana sniping at each other all the time, before they force you to make a choice.

[Brass_Buckles]

You could also add Sera to that list, since she will dump a Dalish Inquisitor if they don't agree that the Temple of Mythal is nonsense.

 

True, but while it's ugly to dump someone based on a religion you already presumably knew that they followed (and demand they change religions for you), that breakup isn't inevitable.

 

My list is mostly for the inevitable poor resolutions to a romance, and those that are really, really hard to avoid (oh hi Alistair).  If it's relatively easy to avoid ending in heartbreak (I know that isn't, for an elf, but also Sera is available to women of all races), it's not on my list.

 

Definitely a good catch though on that issue with Sera.

 

Sardauker:  I think no one here is wanting romance to not have much conflict.  It's more that there is a disproportionate number of female-oriented romances that end in heartbreak or tragedy--breakups, death, being cheated on, etc.  I expect and I want there to be conflict along the way.  I am okay with the occasional heartbreak.  However, it's disproportionately given to females (and, let's be honest, also to LGBT, since they have a lower number of romances overall yet still get inevitable heartbreakers).

 

What we're asking, or what I'm asking anyway, is that either the heartbreaks get lightened up so that the ones we get have more impact, or at least spread them around so guys get their share too and women characters have a few more possible happy endings.

 

Because really, what we're talking about here is the endings, not the in-betweens.

[Lazarillo]

I'm weird, perhaps in that the romances that end "broken" tend to be my preferred paths.  Since the completionist in me feels short-changed if I don't complete a romance option in a given playthrough, the romances where the characters stay "together" end up getting excuses tossed at them as to why they're not actually still together in their or their partners future appearances, the paths that lead to deliberate separation in the end tend to feel more logical, from an overall story perspective.

[veeia]

There are four male LI in this game:

 

Cullen: so sweet you need to see the dentist afterwards bcuz cavities

Iron Bull: no heartbreak. rough and tumble fun turns into serious relationship

Blackwall: he lies to you, but he always loves you, and he does not leave if you continue the relationship? he asks you if you want to get a hosue and a dog together, i mean, it's very happily ever after. agreed on the leaving after sex tho.

Solas: ok, yes. i'll give you that.

 

and of course, some of us ladies like the ladies, and Sera and Josie are both sweet romances...Sera is complicated, but loving (with one possible big moment of drama) and Josie is another cavity giver. 

 

I don't think it's as dire as this thread makes it seems? Idk. 

[KaiserShep]

Conflict is best when it has a satisfying resolution.