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[Ascendra]

This may not count, but I am going to mention it anyway, for the sake of completeness:

 

In "Vampire The Masquerade: Redemption", the main character's love interest, Anezka, spends 800 years with another, more powerful vampire while the protagonist is buried under a load of rubble. You can find her diary, stating that she was defiled by her captor, and that she did terrible things to gain his trust, sabotage or delay his plans, undermine the standing of the rest of his entourage, and just stay "alive" on a night-to-night basis. It's not entirely unheard of.

 

Um, I guess it beats Carth syndrome by a mile.

 

She said he was only with two men and he was one of them, so the relationship has clearly progressed further since then. I haven't finished watching "Dawn of the Seeker", though (because it was unwatchably bad), so I dunno what happened in it.

 

Yeah, I pretend the movie never happened. But a completionist in me read what its about and watched a couple of scenes/screenshots that were important. I know there is nothing steamy going on there, there was even a debate regarding their potential romantic involvement. I don't think there was any consensus on the matter.

[Uirebhiril]

Bioware in general have a thing with re-using the same tropes, but I feel like Dragon Age, at least, demonstrates a clear development in their writing. So no dead wives. Zevran had a dead love he mentioned, but it wasn't nearly as bad as Carth's dead wife and son (not to mention Carth was such a boring character otherwise).

 

 

Yeah, Zevran's dead love. That he tortured and mocked while he killed. Sure, he believed she betrayed him, but er. Not the best example for how he isn't one of those tragic-past-loves-whaaa-but-you-love-me-so-it's-all-good sorts. I love Zevran, but sheesh.

 

If they had toned down Carth's crying about his wife, or showed progression as he moved through and got past her death, that would have been great and he very well could have been a tragic past love character that doesn't get lumped into the pile. As it is he's just another one of them. Sad, too. Sometimes I wonder that potential for characters is not lost due to the constraints in place for being a video game character.

[Gileadan]

To be fair the original Carth Syndrome was Jaheira. (and she topped it by hitting on you when her husband died in the same game. ) So the males have gotten it but yeah...

Yeah, but I remember back then, the creepiness kinda disappeared behind the relative novelty of the idea. A game with a romance? Never had one before, and by the time I figured out what was actually going on, I was in the middle of the main plot, so the point of creepy had kinda passed.

 

Try Anders for really creepy. "Hai, I knifed my previous lover two minutes ago. Now I like you!"

[Ascendra]

Yeah, but I remember back then, the creepiness kinda disappeared behind the relative novelty of the idea. A game with a romance? Never had one before, and by the time I figured out what was actually going on, I was in the middle of the main plot, so the point of creepy had kinda passed.

 

Try Anders for really creepy. "Hai, I knifed my previous lover two minutes ago. Now I like you!"

 

To be fair you had Vicky and Aerie as alternatives

 

Lets not talk about Anders, that conversation always makes me cringe. 

[FurryFury]

I don't think Anders could be considered one of examples of the dead past lover trope because he never mentions it to a female Hawke, and probably doesn't dwell on it much with a male Hawke, too.

 

Yeah, Zevran's dead love. That he tortured and mocked while he killed. Sure, he believed she betrayed him, but er. Not the best example for how he isn't one of those tragic-past-loves-whaaa-but-you-love-me-so-it's-all-good sorts.   I love Zevran, but sheesh.

 

Oh, I do consider Zevran's romance very cliched. It's just that the dead love thing isn't as pronounced as with some other guys (or Jaheira. But really, romancing Jaheira felt like romancing your aunt. Really weird).

[Ascendra]

I don't think Anders could be considered one of examples of the dead past lover trope because he never mentions it to a female Hawke, and probably doesn't dwell on it much with a male Hawke, too.

 

Oh, I do consider Zevran's romance very cliched. It's just that the dead love thing isn't as pronounced as with some other guys (or Jaheira. But really, romancing Jaheira felt like romancing your aunt. Really weird).

 

True about Anders. He doesn't talk about Karl if you are a girl, so here males that romance him may have gotten this trope instead of us. Although he doesn't seem so obsessed with Karl as other LIs with their dead lovers, he switches to Hawke pretty fast.

Also in all seriousness I liked the fact the he was so hung up on Hawke to be honest, meaning he always liked Hawke no matter what - warmed my conceded heart. I do prefer this approach to Inquisition where you practically have to stalk everyone at first. If only he wasn't so much like Edward Cullen....

 

Zev I think is fine too. As long as they don't talk about their dead love all the time is fine in my book.

 

Jaheira felt even weirder for me because I always play BG with mods that add banter to both BGI and BGII. So basically in BG1 she became a tough mother hen to everyone, treating PC and Imoen as her kids. It was double weird in the second part. 

[Ryzaki]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Jaheira. That was really creepy tbh, I mean I love her but she is like mama bear to PC, and with her husband.... yeah, I wonder who thought it was a good idea. I still think her and Viconia are among the best written romances though.

 

You could mock Sky?? I never did, I kind of felt sorry for him and were always nice, but then I was always OP.

 

Yep. I remember being all "wut" when I was playing my half elf. Then I got treated like a douche for being all "uh...no thanks."

 

Yeah you could. It's funny plus he's hot when he goes all evil.

[Ascendra]

Yeah you could. It's funny plus he's hot when he goes all evil.

 

I.... should definitely replay JE now

[Abyss108]

I don't think Anders falls into this trope. He mentions an exlover, but only because it's relevant to the situation. He doesn't obsess over him, or compare you to him, so it's fine. 

 

HAVING an exlover, or mentioning them when it's relevant isn't a problem. It would be weird if no one had exlovers before the protagonist came along!

[Ryzaki]

I don't think Anders falls into this trope. He mentions an exlover, but only because it's relevant to the situation. He doesn't obsess over him, or compare you to him, so it's fine. 

 

HAVING an exlover, or mentioning them when it's relevant isn't a problem. It would be weird if no one had exlovers before the protagonist came along!

 

Agreed. Nothing wrong with having exes. 

 

(Though if we get another dead wife with child that joined the darkside my face. And they had to take it up to 11 with Thane having perfect recollection of her) Bah.

[rak72]

I concur with the op, I like happy endings, damn it.  Glad we finally got a Cullen.

[Sylvianus]

I would like to see once, just once a romance for male players where a female character has a dead husband/lover or a living son from another man. It could be an interesting story which leaves a lot of room for content. I doubt they will ever dare to do it though as it will never sell well.

(not being evil to male players, more for science)

 

Cassandra mentions her dead boyfriend, and just after sex lol.... 

 

That did me absolutely nothing. That meant she trusted me enough to tell me her story. I am aware that female characters could have past relationships before my character, even when they don't mention it. I always dated girls who had already boyfriends before me, as many folks I suppose, I  don't see how It could affect me in a video game. But, anyway there will be always people offended for something. 

 

As far as I am concerned, I'd love Bioware giving us instead an angst romance with a woman who had a dead husband in DAI, and replacing the dysney romance with Josephine. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I like her, the romance was sweet.  But I would lie if I told that it affected me. I was totally indifferent, and some things bothered me. I never asked for a dysney romance, and I am kinda bummed that such thing was created in Dragon age. I'd even dare to claim that women are much more interested by this kind of thing than men overall. ( maybe I am wrong, but from my experience from real life, I truly believe it )  

 

The romance with Josephine was infortunately boring, it lacked drama, tension, angst, I don't know, it was too sweet or perfect, with cheesy lines, and several times I felt that this romance didn't belong to dragon age. ( no offense to those who loved the romance with Josephine, this is just my opinion )  And I don't get why Josephine lifts her foot while she is kissing my character, ( I can't help but think that it was ridiculous  the two time I  saw it ) 

 

The dual for her was cheesy, where we have to declare our love for her in front of everyone, like a prince to her princess. Didn't like it. I must headcanon the whole thing, to make it less dysney, and more dragon age. You could be romantic, have a romantic cutescene without turning the whole thing into something that gave me the vibe of a dysney anime.

 

I have seen on internet a lot more men complaining about Josephine and who think that her romance was boring, than female players, who find her content absolutely sweet on the opposite. I found it interesting. ( at least from what I have seen, and i'm not saying that it is case for everyone, not at all. Just a trend that straight males seem less happy or less impressed.  ) 

 

______

 

For Thane, it was said that he was going to die, so people who conscientiously chose to be with him, should have expected that he wouldn't live long enough. But I admit that Bioware shouldn't have killed Thane thanks to Kai Leng, it was better to let Thane live in M3, and finally a few years after the ending, a natural path like it was implied and explained in M2. It didn't need more drama.

[RShara]

 

For Thane, it was said that he was going to die, so people who conscientiously chose to be with him, should have expected that he wouldn't live long enough. But I admit that Bioware shouldn't have killed Thane thanks to Kai Leng, it was better to let Thane live in M3, and finally a few years after the ending, a natural path like it was implied and explained in M2. It didn't need more drama.

 

This is what a lot of us were hoping for, if they didn't cure him (which was hinted at in several places, but anyway), nope he had to die.  And Solas dumps you.  And Blackwall--I'm sorry I know people like him but he's just so creepy for me.

 

Please, Bioware!  Angst and drama and twists are great DURING the story, but please, a few more happy endings for the females!  And fewer gut punches too (I'm looking at you, Alistair, Blackwall, Solas).

[coldflame]

I can't be bothered to go through all 22 pages of this thread, so can someone please tell me what this is all about? I thought women already got 4 romance options, 6 if you count the lesbian options.

[Abyss108]

I can't be bothered to go through all 22 pages of this thread, so can someone please tell me what this is all about? I thought women already got 4 romance options, 6 if you count the lesbian options.

 

You could just read the first post which explains it...

 

It's about how the romances written for women tend to have a lot more tragedy in them compared to the male romances. Male players get a lot more happy endings than female players. We want a mix for both sexes.

[Panda]

I can't be bothered to go through all 22 pages of this thread, so can someone please tell me what this is all about? I thought women already got 4 romance options, 6 if you count the lesbian options.

 

It's not about numbers. It's about that there is too many heartbreaking romances for straight female characters where your LI dumps/cheats or dies on you.

[RShara]

I can't be bothered to go through all 22 pages of this thread, so can someone please tell me what this is all about? I thought women already got 4 romance options, 6 if you count the lesbian options.

It's not about the number, it's about the ending.  Straight females tend to have more bad endings than straight males.  Examples being if you:

Romance Alistair--You have to make him impregnate another woman, or he dies, or you die.

Romance Thane--He dies.

Romance Jacob--He dumps you.

Romance Anders-- .....yeah.

Romance Solas--He leaves you.

Romance Blackwall--He's someone else.

[Elsariel]

I can't be bothered to go through all 22 pages of this thread, so can someone please tell me what this is all about? I thought women already got 4 romance options, 6 if you count the lesbian options.

I would think you could at least be bothered to read the first post. If you had, you would know this had absolutely nothing to do with the number of LI's people have and more about heartbreak romances. I mean, even the title of this thread tells you that much.

[Uirebhiril]

Cassandra mentions her dead boyfriend, and just after sex lol.... 

 

That did me absolutely nothing. That meant she trusted me enough to tell me her story. I am aware that female characters could have past relationships before my character, even when they don't mention it. I always dated girls who had already boyfriends before me, as many folks I suppose, I  don't see how It could affect me in a video game. But, anyway there will be always people offended for something. 

 

Being tired of a trope is not the same thing as being offended. No one cares if our love interests banged half of Haven or were married in the past. The issue was that more male love interests than not had a dead wife or lover that he compared you to or wouldn't STFU about. It's not the "these are my past relationships" couple conversation, it was a "BY THE WAY I STILL ACHE FOR MY PAST LOVE AND BASE MY ENTIRE PERSONALITY UPON IT" sort of thing. With special bonus to the handful that killed their past love themselves. That one is always super great.

 

It being mentioned in passing because it is relevant, which seems so in the case of Cassandra's commentary about Regalyan? That's fine. She doesn't dwell on it or continue to bring it up or cry about it. Even Carth being upset over the fairly recent death of his wife, fine - if he'd gotten the eff over it and showed character progression because of it. That would have made sense.

 

...add in all the OTHER dead lovers LIs and yep, we're done.

[Sylvianus]

This is what a lot of us were hoping for, if they didn't cure him (which was hinted at in several places, but anyway), nope he had to die.  And Solas dumps you.  And Blackwall--I'm sorry I know people like him but he's just so creepy for me.

 

Please, Bioware!  Angst and drama and twists are great DURING the story, but please, a few more happy endings for the females!  And fewer gut punches too (I'm looking at you, Alistair, Blackwall, Solas).

 

It was also hinted that something could be done for Miranda's infertility, but it never was developped. I personally don't take the details too seriously for this dlc. For me, Miranda can't have babies, and my character has to accept this reality. Of course some other Miranda fans think that it was enough, so they headcanon something else. It is their right, it it their opinion, they do whatever the hell they want with their imagination. But I'm not sure I entirely agree with this idea. 

 

For Thane it was totally useless, and for Jacob totally out of character and useless. But for Jacob, I suppose that the fact that not many seemed to like him, played a big role, like the fact that many people were offended to work with Cerberus. Bioware might have thought that they were free to do whatever the hell they want with Jacob, the result being probably not many people complaining. It is really bad when people could be affected by some decisions just because they are a small minority. 

[RShara]

It was also hinted that something could be done for Miranda's infertility, but it never was developped. I personally don't take the details too seriously for this dlc. For me, Miranda can't have babies, and my character has to accept this reality. Of course some other Miranda fans think that it was enough, so they headcanon something else. It is their right, it it their opinion, they do whatever the hell they want with their imagination. But I'm not sure I entirely agree with this idea. 

 

For Thane it was totally useless, and for Jacob totally out of character and useless. But for Jacob, I suppose that the fact that not many seemed to like him, played a big role, like the fact that many people were offended to work with Cerberus. Bioware might have thought that they were free to do whatever the hell they want with Jacob, the result being probably not many people complaining. It is really bad when people could be affected by some decisions just because they are a small minority. 

 

Yup, it's ominous when the option of a good or bad ending to a relationship is determined by its popularity.

[Uirebhiril]

On its own, a love interest cheating is certainly not out of the ordinary and can be considered just another shade of what can happen with relationships. On that basis alone the fact Jacob cheated was interesting. For those that did romance him, well, I'm sure most of us have been in a real life situation where we had to deal with it and no one wants to relive that slap in the face in a video game. I guess that was the best reason they came up with for why he wasn't going to join Shepard, but yikes.

 

So when the DLC rolls around and we find that a romanced Josephine cheats on a male PC with Blackwall, awesome.

[Sylvianus]

Being tired of a trope is not the same thing as being offended. No one cares if our love interests banged half of Haven or were married in the past. The issue was that more male love interests than not had a dead wife or lover that he compared you to or wouldn't STFU about. It's not the "these are my past relationships" couple conversation, it was a "BY THE WAY I STILL ACHE FOR MY PAST LOVE AND BASE MY ENTIRE PERSONALITY UPON IT" sort of thing. With special bonus to the handful that killed their past love themselves. That one is always super great.

 

It being mentioned in passing because it is relevant, which seems so in the case of Cassandra's commentary about Regalyan? That's fine. She doesn't dwell on it or continue to bring it up or cry about it. Even Carth being upset over the fairly recent death of his wife, fine - if he'd gotten the eff over it and showed character progression because of it. That would have made sense.

 

...add in all the OTHER dead lovers LIs and yep, we're done.

 

Eer, I don't know if you read the post to what I was responding. It is said that if male players get a romance where a female character has a dead husband just once, she doubts that they will ever dare to do it, and it will never sells. I was telling it wouldn't bother me. As for those " offended, " I was talking about some male players if it happens, probably going : ZOMG, SHE MENTIONED HER DEAD HUSBAND, DO NOT WANT. 

 

I am giving you the quote, so you can read it :

 

 I would like to see once, just once a romance for male players where a female character has a dead husband/lover or a living son from another man. It could be an interesting story which leaves a lot of room for content. I doubt they will ever dare to do it though as it will never sell well.

[Ascendra]

Cassandra mentions her dead boyfriend, and just after sex lol.... 

 

That did me absolutely nothing. That meant she trusted me enough to tell me her story. I am aware that female characters could have past relationships before my character, even when they don't mention it. I always dated girls who had already boyfriends before me, as many folks I suppose, I  don't see how It could affect me in a video game. But, anyway there will be always people offended for something. 

 

As Uirebhiril graciously addressed before me its not about having exes (I really don't give a damn, they could sleep with whole Thedas for all I care), its about LIs being so hung up on dead exes, comparing them to PC and talking about them all the time. The nature of such LIs repeated through several games and became a trope which was mainly used to induce angst and drama but really turned into major annoyance.

Me and others also noted that thankfully the trend has changed, but I guess we are still sore from this treatment in the past.

 

Edit: to clarify - talking once or twice is fine. Cass mentions it once (albeit after sex is still weird) which is fine. Zev had a dead lover who he mentions only once which is also fine. In the past we had LIs which basically talk about dead lovers throughout the entire game, i.e. Thane.

[Hattress]

 (as I said: if many players look for spoilers about the romance endings to not "pick the bad romance" before the game is out, is not a good sign) .

can't agree more. I just chat with one female player who claimed she'd not romance Solas, not until a DLC/DA4 is released and she make sure the end isn't sad. Because she had a bad luck in picking LI in BW world and is annoyed being the "forever widow"