1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Fizzie Panda]

Even though Females did get more romances in DA: I than Males, I agree with this, too much heartbreak from people who are supposed to be close to you.

 

#ChangeME4

[Spectre Impersonator]

Here here. I support this. Tragedy can be nice if tempered. But us females generally have to play Russian roulette when choosing who we romance.

While us men have to play "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" between only two equally boring choices.

[Uirebhiril]

While us men have to play "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" between only two equally boring choices.

 

You can always post and ask for more female love interests that are the "bad girl" type or more diverse in personality. We'll share the archetype, honest.

[Ascendra]

Eer, I don't know if you read the post to what I was responding. It is said that if male players get a romance where a female character has a dead husband just once, she doubts that they will ever dare to do it, and it will never sells. I was telling it wouldn't bother me. As for those " offended, " I was talking about some male players if it happens, probably going : ZOMG, SHE MENTIONED HER DEAD HUSBAND, DO NOT WANT. 

 

I am giving you the quote, so you can read it :

 

 I would like to see once, just once a romance for male players where a female character has a dead husband/lover or a living son from another man. It could be an interesting story which leaves a lot of room for content. I doubt they will ever dare to do it though as it will never sell well.

 

Now I understand what you meant, because I seemed to have responded differently. 

The issue is not in mentioning a dead husband, the issue would be in mentioning him in almost every conversation with PC romantic or not (a-la Thane, Carth, Sky). Females were treated with such romantic content previously throughout several games, but males have got only one case - Jaheira in BGII, she is even older than PC. The rest of the romances for males involved young women with little to no baggage and rather little drama (you can even reunite with Morrigan via DLC) in comparison to women, while female romances have more angst, drama, dead lovers and stuff.

So Cass mentioning her dead lover in one scene is not an issue. Cass talking about her dead lover to you all the time, comparing you and him and saying how good he was - is.

If you would be fine with such a content, more respect to you. But a lot of us were sick of these tropes reappearing solely for female romances, hence the requests.

 

Thankfully the trend for female LIs has improved immensely with DA, so no complaints here.

[Abyss108]

While us men have to play "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" between only two equally boring choices.

 

Well we're saying some of this fun tragedy and heartbreak should be put into options for men as well, so then they won't be boring for you.

 

Also, you say you only get 2 choices, but straight men have had more options than straight women in pretty much every other game there is.

[Felya87]

can't agree more. I just chat with one female player who claimed she'd not romance Solas, not until a DLC/DA4 is released and she make sure the end isn't sad. Because she had a bad luck in picking LI in BW world and is annoyed being the "forever widow"

 

I know more than one friend who is doing this (some are romancing Cullen in the meantime, since is the "safe" option). If I wasn't so curious about Solas's character (that I love) and I don't find Cullen all that interesting, I would have done the same.

 

I'm doing now Bull's romance waiting for a DLC/news about Solas's, and even if I like it, I can see why many people may not find Bull's romantic content of their taste.

 

Next, I'll pursue Cassandra, since I really like her personality, and I always do at least one male character. (hoping for a fix for the male elf arms came soon...)

But I really can't find the strength to do Blackwall's romance. I'm already living a very bad moment in RL, I can't have my games giving me too much sadness now.

[AdrianC25]

lol 23 pages of people complaining about how a "romance" at the END of a video plays out. If it means that much to you close your eyes and imagine a different ending. either way its fictional and over.

[SamanthaJ]

lol 23 pages of people complaining about how a "romance" at the END of a video plays out. If it means that much to you close your eyes and imagine a different ending. either way its fictional and over.

How dare people care about something you don't.

 

How dare consumers of a product post feedback and suggestions of what they'd like to see in future products made by the same company in the Feedback and Suggestions section of said company's very own forum.

[Abyss108]

lol 23 pages of people complaining about how a "romance" at the END of a video plays out. If it means that much to you close your eyes and imagine a different ending. either way its fictional and over.

 

So by your logic, nothing Bioware writes matters (a company that prides itself on its writing), because we could just imagine something different?   Also, the subject isn't always the END of a romance, we've been talking about the entirety of it (eg. the obsessed with dead wife topic). And the problem isn't specifically the content, it's how that content differs for male/female players...

 

I COULD just imagine a different story after the fact. I could also imagine different music for the game afterwards, or different graphics, or completely different gameplay... (omg DA2 is now a 10/10 game  )

 

I'm exaggerating a bit above, but being able to imagine something different doesn't mean what's in the game is above criticism! 

[medusa_hair]

I do think there needs to be some drama and tension in the relationship or between the two people or it isn't interesting (one reason why I didn't try the Cullen romance - he's too "nice" for my taste). The problem is that over the course of time that you are playing the game if the character is well written you do become attached to them, and then after 60 or so hours (ok, a little obsessed) you get dumped, or the person dies, or disappears, whatever. Then you are left with WTF? and aggravated. I really liked Solas' character, and from an objective standpoint both the character and the romance were well-written (and well-voiced too), which is actually the reason so many people are requesting DLC so he can explain himself (as he promised to do), and the reason why it was such a punch in the gut. The problem is that we often have enough of those WTF moments in our real, actual life and it would be nice to have a way to work it so there is at least one way to have it end reasonably at least some of the time. Alistair's was complicated but at least you had a variety of ways it could go. (and I did love my Alistair!)

[Spectre Impersonator]

Well we're saying some of this fun tragedy and heartbreak should be put into options for men as well, so then they won't be boring for you.

 

Also, you say you only get 2 choices, but straight men have had more options than straight women in pretty much every other game there is.

But this is thread in a section in a board about Dragon Age: Inquisition, not "pretty much every other game there is", and I do not agree that pretty much every game allows any choice in romance, regardless of the gender you play as. Many games have nothing to do with romance.

 

But as every romance seems terrible in the Dragon Age series, this is a pointless discussion to have here anyway.

[Abyss108]

But this is thread in a section in a board about Dragon Age: Inquisition, not "pretty much every other game there is", and I do not agree that pretty much every game allows any choice in romance, regardless of the gender you play as. Many games have nothing to do with romance.

 

But as every romance seems terrible in the Dragon Age series, this is a pointless discussion to have here anyway.

 

There isn't a "general feedback for trends across all Bioware games" forum, so we're posting here... Everyone has clearly stated this is a general problem across multiple games, not a criticism against any particular romance.

 

I agree that not every Bioware game should have every choice (that would be an insane amount of work). We're just discussing a trend. Some games should have happier stories for men, some sadder. Same for women. It just shouldn't be one sided.

 

All the romances being terrible is your opinion, but other people like them. Personally, the only ones I've enjoyed are Garrus and Solas, but there are a lot of people who enjoyed the other ones. Personal taste is a great thing like that. 

[Abelas Forever!]

lol 23 pages of people complaining about how a "romance" at the END of a video plays out. If it means that much to you close your eyes and imagine a different ending. either way its fictional and over.

Except that the story will continue either in DLC or in next game so it's possible that there are references to characters which were in previous games so the romance is not necessary over when the game ends. For me it's like lying to myself if I imagine something that could not actually happen in a game. However I have no problem with fanfiction which happens in alternative universe.

[whitless256]

The big difference between a book/movie and a game is simply this: the game require a lot of time and energy to be completed. A book or a movie a few hours. (depending on how long is the book, but is usually less time than a game like DAI, an reading is more passive than playing a videogame)

 

I realize this was several pages back but I have to ask...  what books do you read that you can finish in a few hours?  I'm a fast reader and the books I read take me far longer to complete than the time I put into the plot of DAI.  And you'll never convince me that 60 hours of random side questing in the Hissing Waste counts as time in which I'm engaged in the game's story.    The books I read require a LOT of time and energy to complete and if the damage done to my Storm of Swords book is any indication, throwing it twice into the wall is hardly passive.

 

And yet I picked it back up again and I'm glad I did, because if I'd stopped reading at the points that upset me, I'd have missed out on a lot of great things to come.  Just like I'm glad I stuck with the Solas romance even knowing it wouldn't end well.

 

Yet again, I feel it's important to point out that not everyone reacts the same way to all things.  Games like DAI let you define the main character, and thus many people invest a huge chunk of self into it, but others like me just enjoy it as a story.  But even with that, and forming your own head cannon and all the things you do for your PC, I do tend to feel more connected to a character I've spent 2000 pages with in a novel/book series.  And I was WAY more upset when <insert spoiler here> died in Game of Thrones than I was when I killed Hawke on my third playthrough of DAI.    And Solas dumping me?  pffft that's nothing!  My Inquisitor will be all the stronger for it.

[Nightdragon8]

*snip*

For those of you who don't understand what I am talking about, some instances of this in various BioWare games:

 

• Jacob, ME2 - Cheats in ME3 (inevitable)
• Thane, ME2 - Dies in ME3 (inevitable)
• Alistair, DA:O - Can Die, WILL Dump Non-Human or Mage if Made King, Can Cheat (Leliana, Morrigan).  Being his mistress is presented as a positive solution, though many people would find that unacceptable for a variety of reasons.  Of all of them, his involves the most choice, which makes it seem the least horrible--until you realize, the best option for Ferelden to rule is with him as king (if you are female) and either the Warden (if human noble) or Anora at his side.  Also if you don't do the Dark Ritual and take him with you to the final battle, his death is inevitable and cannot be interrupted by a female Warden who romanced him--also highly problematic.
• Morrigan, DA:O - Male only.  She leaves at the end.  This is fixed, though, via a DLC where the Warden can go rejoin her.
• Anders, DA2 - Both Genders.  Betrays Hawke - this is inevitable since it's part of the main plot. (Note, he's loyal if you let him live... and despite doing something ABSOLUTELY horrible, he gets a happy-ish ending?)
• Blackwall, DA:I - He lies about who he is, sleeps with the Inquisitor before the reveal (which is Not Okay), and if romanced, disappears from Skyhold post-game.  He is still available in-party, but he abandons his lover.
• Solas, DA:I - Breaks up with the Inquisitor immediately after giving the romance achievement and potentially stripping her of a vital part of her identity.  Seems to promise an explanation in some dialogue, but then vanishes without a trace.  Yes, it's for Major Plot Reasons, but there is basically no real closure.  Heartbreak, all around.

*snip

First 2 I agree, pretty dick move by BW over that. But in all fareness with Thane, we already knew he was on a timer.

 

I agree with Alister, up and till you talk about Morrigan, YOU have to push him to do it with her, and as for Leliana, as far as I know that only happens with the moresome with Isabella, which at that point its your own damn fualt for having a moresome with Isabela.

 

With Morrigan - male only, It was sort of understood that she would leave with or without he dark ritual.

 

Anders... meh... i agree i guess

 

As for Solas going to have to take your word for it, but I agree.

 

It does seem the females get the short end of the stick when it comes to romances. Which is funny because there is alot of writers that are female in BW, and they have those meetings and stuff. Maybe BW women like the whole tragic heroien trope?

[Maverick827]

You can always post and ask for more female love interests that are the "bad girl" type or more diverse in personality. We'll share the archetype, honest.

 

Whenever Straight White Men™©® ask for things on these forums, they get laughed at for asking for more things on these forums.

[Uirebhiril]

Whenever Straight White Men™©® ask for things on these forums, they get laughed at for asking for more things on these forums.

 

If the posts are along the lines of wanting a T&A slider or "sexier" love interests, that's small wonder. I mean, this is a post asking for considerations when it comes to the characterization and story of a character, rather than their appearance, and we've had to deal with mockery and troll comments too.

 

But if a guy did post asking for something more in-depth with their romance characters, it's possible the devs might take notice and you'll get something new for a love interests rather than Generic Sexy Lady 001324 or Boring Sweet Girl. Give some examples of what you'd like in a character or a romance and I'd be surprised if others didn't come out to agree with you.

[Felya87]

I realize this was several pages back but I have to ask...  what books do you read that you can finish in a few hours?  I'm a fast reader and the books I read take me far longer to complete than the time I put into the plot of DAI.  And you'll never convince me that 60 hours of random side questing in the Hissing Waste counts as time in which I'm engaged in the game's story.    The books I read require a LOT of time and energy to complete and if the damage done to my Storm of Swords book is any indication, throwing it twice into the wall is hardly passive.

 

Depending on the books. I have read Good Omens and some of Jeffrey Deaver works in one or two days. Since I need many days, if not months to finish a game because I don't have the material time to sit and play with my PS4 (I usually read while on the train, or in the small moments of free time), I have the feeling I invest much more time in a game than reading a book. Even just making side quests, hearing the banters and all, I feel much more the "constant presence" of the characters than reading a book.

 

And even if I can sometime invest myself in the protagonists of the books, I always have a much deeper connection with the character I create to play a RPG.

[Maverick827]

If the posts are along the lines of wanting a T&A slider or "sexier" love interests, that's small wonder. I mean, this is a post asking for considerations when it comes to the characterization and story of a character, rather than their appearance, and we've had to deal with mockery and troll comments too.

 

But if a guy did post asking for something more in-depth with their romance characters, it's possible the devs might take notice and you'll get something new for a love interests rather than Generic Sexy Lady 001324 or Boring Sweet Girl. Give some examples of what you'd like in a character or a romance and I'd be surprised if others didn't come out to agree with you.

 

I don't have any requests; I don't really do the romances in these games outside of unlocking achievements or getting very specific endings.  But there have been many, legitimate criticisms of Cassandra and Josephine that are laughed away because it's straight white men complaining about something.

[whitless256]

If the posts are along the lines of wanting a T&A slider or "sexier" love interests, that's small wonder. I mean, this is a post asking for considerations when it comes to the characterization and story of a character, rather than their appearance, and we've had to deal with mockery and troll comments too.

 

But if a guy did post asking for something more in-depth with their romance characters, it's possible the devs might take notice and you'll get something new for a love interests rather than Generic Sexy Lady 001324 or Boring Sweet Girl. Give some examples of what you'd like in a character or a romance and I'd be surprised if others didn't come out to agree with you.

 

To be fair, I don't see a difference between this and guys asking for love interests that match their ideal of a good LI.  And they've been told by the community in no uncertain terms that they need to stop talking about how they're not attracted to their two options.  Seems like two sides of the same coin to me, even though I do disagree with the concept that Cassandra and Josie are unatractive.   I think they have as much a right to ask for that as the folks in this post have to ask for different romance types.

[Bekkael]

I agree with the OP completely. I've been bit*h-slapped so many times by the romance options for straight females in Bio games, that I 100% spoiled myself on all my possible choices for DAI before playing. The only one I consider worthy of romancing is Cullen so I won't even bother with the others.

Blackwall is a liar and a coward, Solas is a liar too, but has more to his story and MAY be worth romancing if they give some decent closure. I'm not into 50 Shades of Iron Bull, so I take a pass on that one too. So....one out of four romances is any good, IMO.

Sure wish they would stop picking on us straight lady players. I'm not a tragedy wh*re and I wish BioWare writers would quit forcing this stuff down our throats. I was already sooooo over it after the lousy Thane/Jacob treatment, not to mention Alistair and Anders. >_<

[whitless256]

I have to ask.

 

I keep seeing people saying they won't do the Iron Bull romance because he's into BDSM.  I never got the impression before this thread that he was some kind of masochist.  Is his romance really full of bondage and abuse?  How bad is it? 

[Ryzaki]

I have to ask.

 

I keep seeing people saying they won't do the Iron Bull romance because he's into BDSM.  I never got the impression before this thread that he was some kind of masochist.  Is his romance really full of bondage and abuse?  How bad is it? 

 

He's not the machoist. He very patronizingly tells the Quizzy he/she needs to be a sub (which really wtf) but it doesn't seem to be anything mega intense. (Plus having Cole burst that "I'm in control" bubble makes me lol hard). I don't mind it myself (mostly again because of Cole's insight into it) but I can see why people are kind of like "ehhhh".

[Abyss108]

To be fair, I don't see a difference between this and guys asking for love interests that match their ideal of a good LI.  And they've been told by the community in no uncertain terms that they need to stop talking about how they're not attracted to their two options.  Seems like two sides of the same coin to me, even though I do disagree with the concept that Cassandra and Josie are unatractive.   I think they have as much a right to ask for that as the folks in this post have to ask for different romance types.

 

I haven't read every post on this forum, so it's possible there were some reasonable arguments I missed somewhere, but most of the ones I've seen tend to have a few differences than what we're doing here...

 

We're talking about general trends. We're not singling out specific characters that we don't find attractive. After all, different people have different tastes. The complaints coming from male gamers seem to be "these two individual options are objective wrong for men". We're not demanding love interests to meet very specific tastes, we're just saying we would like some variety. People who complain because the two LIs in this one game are basically saying EVERY LI should meet their own specific tastes. I didn't like either LI for me in origins, but I don't think Bioware was WRONG for that. They just weren't for me. It's quite reasonable to express concerns about the characters, but saying any particular character is an insult as a LI is questionable to me. Because at that point, you're demanding a character be a different person to suit the players fantasy. At that point, the character isn't being written naturally to provide a good narrative. Criticising trends doesn't have that issue.

 

A lot of the complaints about the female LIs seem to be about how they're not hot enough. Nevermind that everyone has different tastes, or that none of the LIs are designed to be pin up posters. The romances exist for narrative reasons, not as porn. I've seen a lot of complaints that basically want them to look like porn stars. Here, we're talking about narrative issues, not complaining that the characters don't meet our beauty standards.

 

A lot of the posts about female LIs come across as VERY demanding. I've seen people accuse Bioware as being "out to get them", and making unattractive LIs to spite them. We're not making claims like that here. We're just saying there's a trend they might not have noticed.

 

I'm sure not every complaint has been like this, but all the one's I've seen get told to shut up have been. I've also seen posts criticising the LIs in a more polite way, or in ways that weren't just "feminine and hotter!!!", and those didn't get shut down.

 

Again, these are just the general differences I've noticed in various threads. I also can't speak for other posters about what's happened in other threads. I'd also note, that there's been people come into this thread and tell us to shut up about it as well! So it's not just men that are being told not to talk about this!

 

I have to ask.

 

I keep seeing people saying they won't do the Iron Bull romance because he's into BDSM.  I never got the impression before this thread that he was some kind of masochist.  Is his romance really full of bondage and abuse?  How bad is it? 

 

I haven't played it but I doubt there's any abuse in the relationship. That's completely different from BDSM, which I understand is in there a very small amount.