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[Natashina]

There are four male LI in this game:

 

Cullen: so sweet you need to see the dentist afterwards bcuz cavities

Iron Bull: no heartbreak. rough and tumble fun turns into serious relationship

Blackwall: he lies to you, but he always loves you, and he does not leave if you continue the relationship? he asks you if you want to get a hosue and a dog together, i mean, it's very happily ever after. agreed on the leaving after sex tho.

Solas: ok, yes. i'll give you that.

 

I don't think it's as dire as this thread makes it seems? Idk. 

We're just not focusing this game though.  It's agreed that at least two of the romances turned out okay in this game.  No one is disputing that.  The fact that two of the male LIs flat out lie to the player about their identity is bothersome.  

 

Note: Both genders get lied to by several LIs about their motivations, which is why I specified identity in this case.

 

However,  notice the track record throughout BioWare's history?  I don't consider it dire, I just consider it tired and frustrating.   

 

Edit: Took out a cranky sounding line.  Sorry veeia, just sick and tired.  

[Dakota Strider]

Now unless I missed something, in DLI, straight females have 4 males to choose from, and straight males only have 2 females?  Although, from my point of view, Cassandra is a better choice than any of those 4 you have.

[SamanthaJ]

Please...

 

No more cheating ( excuse my implied language by the use of four symbols but why would anyone even consider writing that kind of piece of **** outcome anyways?)

 

No more inevitable deaths (especially if they're handled poorly).

 

No more dead wives (oh God I hate this trope it should have been dead and buried long before the wives ever were.)

 

Let Solas have a Morrigan-esque ending at the very least (okay this one is my bias.)

 

If it weren't so heavily skewed towards love interests accessed by straight females it wouldn't be such a big deal, but as it is...

[Brass_Buckles]

I definitely see the reason for wanting a change of pace.  However, I still believe some of the most satisfying romance role play in games has been when there has been some conflict.  The romances that seemed to go the smoothest, were just not that memorable.  Of course, once you traverse all the obstacles, it seems like you should have earned a happy ending.

 

Going back to Alistair female ending.  Forgot about the problems of being non-human in that regard.  I played humans almost 90% of the time, so I tend to think most other people do as well (mistakenly).  Another question in regards to DAO from your perspective:  Was there any banter between Alistair and any other rivals for your attention, I guess Zevron being the main alternative?  One of the more entertaining parts of the male DAO romance, was Morrigan and Leliana sniping at each other all the time, before they force you to make a choice.

 

It's easier to say you think it's the most satisfying if you don't mostly play female characters and find that that is just about all you get.  We're not talking "lack of conflict," here, either.  We're talking "ends in heartbreak, without any ability to influence it via player agency."  If we were talking "argue, causing a potential breakup or even a potential reunion later," sure, okay, let's have that.  If we were talking about something like "because of your actions that ignored what this character was actually like, you're going to be betrayed/dumped," but that's not it either, because some of these are basically inevitable.

 

And... I don't remember there being a lot of sniping between the guys, if any, but I usually didn't flirt with more than one character at a time.  Except for that one time I played a guy who was flirting with absolutely everyone he could, just to see what happened.

[Ryzaki]

We're just not focusing this game though.  It's agreed that at least two of the romances turned out okay in this game.  No one is disputing that.  The fact that two of the male LIs flat out lie to the player about their identity is bothersome.  Name me a female LI that spent an entire game lying about their identity, not motivation.  Then to either beg your forgiveness or just leave for good.

 

Note: Both genders get lied to by several LIs, which is why I specified identity in this case.

 

However,  notice the track record throughout BioWare's history?  I don't consider it dire, I just consider it tired and frustrating.   

 

Yeah I wouldn't mind if they spread out the misery but they really don't. =/ 

[Bliss]

There are four male LI in this game:

 

Cullen: so sweet you need to see the dentist afterwards bcuz cavities

Iron Bull: no heartbreak. rough and tumble fun turns into serious relationship

Blackwall: he lies to you, but he always loves you, and he does not leave if you continue the relationship? he asks you if you want to get a hosue and a dog together, i mean, it's very happily ever after. agreed on the leaving after sex tho.

Solas: ok, yes. i'll give you that.

 

I don't think it's as dire as this thread makes it seems? Idk. 

 

I honestly don't know how anyone forgives Blackwall for leaving them naked and alone in a barn after sex. That's just bad all around. No one likes waking up in that situation with just a note. You have to forgive him everything and the kitchen sink to get that happy ending. Forgive him on things that are just absolutely horrible.

 

 

While this is not necessarily a DIRE situation. It is a frown worthy one. The writers are so talented. We just don't think our hearts need to be continually broken in order to enjoy the romances.

[Natashina]

I honestly don't know how anyone forgives Blackwall for leaving them naked and alone in a barn after sex. That's just bad all around. No one likes waking up in that situation with just a note. You have to forgive him everything and the kitchen sink to get that happy ending. Forgive him on things that are just absolutely horrible.

 

Good point about him ditching you after sex.

[Brass_Buckles]

Now unless I missed something, in DLI, straight females have 4 males to choose from, and straight males only have 2 females?  Although, from my point of view, Cassandra is a better choice than any of those 4 you have.

 

If you play human, a female character has 3 choices.  If you play elf, you have four.  Anything else, you get the standard two options.  It's not THAT skewed.

 

And let's be honest, Iron Bull and Blackwall are both definitely not for everyone (or even for most people).  Same goes for Solas.  Pretty much the most popular guy character is Cullen, and aside from his looks and his presence in previous games, I have little to no doubt that it's because his romance ends well.

 

As KaiserShep just said, conflict is best when it has a satisfying resolution.  If that resolution is heartbreak, that's fine, but if it's heartbreak half of the time or 3/4 of the time, that kind of takes something away from the idea of the heartbreak in the first place.  Then it's just the game deciding no, you can't be happy if you're in X group.

[sandalisthemaker]

Yeah I wouldn't mind if they spread out the misery but they really don't. =/ 

 

Off topic, but when does the Inquisitor say that quote in your sig?

[veeia]

Bastila can end terribly, Morrigan leaves, Anders is for both genders, Cassandra dumps you if she becomes the divine....I do think the writers tend to aim more towards tragedy porn with female LI (edit: that is, LI for women)...but I also think that for Dragon Age, it's been pretty even... IDK. 

 

I'll bow out though, because I am not gonna argue about Blackwall, or say 'NO DONT MAKE REASONABLE REQUESTS FOR CONTENT YOU WANT IN A SUGGESTIONS FORUM"  I suppose I just don't get it, but I don't have to. 

[Brass_Buckles]

I honestly don't know how anyone forgives Blackwall for leaving them naked and alone in a barn after sex. That's just bad all around. No one likes waking up in that situation with just a note. You have to forgive him everything and the kitchen sink to get that happy ending. Forgive him on things that are just absolutely horrible.

 

 

While this is not necessarily a DIRE situation. It is a frown worthy one. The writers are so talented. We just don't think our hearts need to be continually broken in order to enjoy the romances.

 

Well add to the "after sex" thing, that it's also then that you learn he's been romancing you under an assumed identity.  That falls under the definition of rape in the U.S. if I am not mistaken, so it's very much Not Okay in the first place.  And, you are right, you have to forgive him a number of atrocities that he has committed, on top of the identity theft.

 

Blackwall may have the potential for a happy ending, but from fans I heard, he just left Skyhold and was available in the party, post-game.  Maybe that isn't the case for all players, if that is so I can take him off the list, or put a question mark or something.  Either way, considering the ditch-after-sex-under-assumed-identity thing, I'm thinking he's not a winner, either way.

[Ryzaki]

Off topic, but when does the Inquisitor say that quote in your sig?

 

Negative approval Sera when kicking her out.

[Ryzaki]

Ugh I disagree about the whole rape Blackwall thing. Is it skeevy as hell? Yes.

 

But FemPC pretty much pulls out the "no it's okay let's bone!" when he's trying to tell her it's a bad idea.

 

Granted she's under the impression it's because the whole taint thing and it's really not but yeah she's the pushy one in that scenario. There wasn't rape there. Just very bad judgement.

[Brass_Buckles]

Bastila can end terribly, Morrigan leaves, Anders is for both genders, Cassandra dumps you if she becomes the divine....I do think the writers tend to aim more towards tragedy porn with female LI...but I also think that for Dragon Age, it's been pretty even... IDK. 

 

I'll bow out though, because I am not gonna argue about Blackwall, or say 'NO DONT MAKE REASONABLE REQUESTS FOR CONTENT YOU WANT IN A SUGGESTIONS FORUM"  I suppose I just don't get it, but I don't have to. 

 

We aren't talking about "can," here, we're talking about "inevitable," or "have to go through exreme and ridiculous measures just to achieve some measure of happiness."  Bastila CAN end terribly, based on player decisions.  Morrigan leaves, but male Wardens get an entire DLC to go track her down and then are able to still have a happy ending.  Cassandra dumps men upon becoming Divine, but it's pretty clear that she's very devout and would likely take a vow of chastity upon becoming Divine anyway.  Or, at least, consider her duty more important than sex with the male Inquisitor.

 

DLC does count, and if we get DLC to resolve Solas, he'll be removed from the list.  Until then, my point stands.

 

A large part of the problem is that the player seems to have less agency in one of these inevitable heartbreak romances.  If I had a chance to save Thane, and didn't, that's my story.  If I had a chance to keep Jacob from cheating, and failed, that's also my story.  If I could convince Solas to stay, it would be more okay that he left.  If I could know the truth about Blackwall before the sex scene, then his leaving afterward would be more forgivable--and I'd have the option to not have to deal with a situation that is, legally, rape.

[Brass_Buckles]

Ugh I disagree about the whole rape Blackwall thing. Is it skeevy as hell? Yes.

 

But FemPC pretty much pulls out the "no it's okay let's bone!" when he's trying to tell her it's a bad idea.

 

Granted she's under the impression it's because the whole taint thing and it's really not but yeah she's the pushy one in that scenario. There wasn't rape there. Just very bad judgement.

 

It legally is rape in the U.S. because he's using a fake identity to have sex.  Even if the Inquisitor is pushing for it and wants it, she wants sex with Blackwall, not Thom Rainier.

[veeia]

Well, okay, if we are defining the BW romance as rape now, then I am definitely bowing out, lmao. Good luck to you guys. 

[SamanthaJ]

Well add to the "after sex" thing, that it's also then that you learn he's been romancing you under an assumed identity.  That falls under the definition of rape in the U.S. if I am not mistaken, so it's very much Not Okay in the first place.  And, you are right, you have to forgive him a number of atrocities that he has committed, on top of the identity theft.

 

Blackwall may have the potential for a happy ending, but from fans I heard, he just left Skyhold and was available in the party, post-game.  Maybe that isn't the case for all players, if that is so I can take him off the list, or put a question mark or something.  Either way, considering the ditch-after-sex-under-assumed-identity thing, I'm thinking he's not a winner, either way.

I saw a video where Blackwall griped at a Lady Cadash if she used her background resources (criminal) to bust his ass out of prison. The lying and his past actions I wouldn't see as such a big deal (considering the actions of many other companions I like), it's the leaving her naked and uncovered in a barn and acted hypocritical when she rescued him that makes thos scenario annoying to me. There wasn't even an option to call him out on it his being hypocritical.

 

Also, while Solas is lying about his identity at least his writer did intentionally make it so that the player could determine whether they had sex our not. This solves the problem for those that are uncomfortable with the idea.

[Tielis]

Amen.  Amen.  Amen.

 

I'm sick of having to play a male character for happy straight endings unless I want a classic Prince Charming.  (No offense, Cullenites, I love the dude too, but I've been addicted to elves since I was 14, and I can guarantee that's longer than a lot of you have been alive.)

[Dakota Strider]

Bioware skirting the rape issue is not new.  Remember the Dark Ritual, if you choose Alistair to be the... donor?  If that is not a look of terror on his face, as Morrigan approaches, and just as the light goes out, I don't know what else to call it.

[Ryzaki]

It legally is rape in the U.S. because he's using a fake identity to have sex.  Even if the Inquisitor is pushing for it and wants it, she wants sex with Blackwall, not Thom Rainier.

 

I could've sworn I've had this discussion before. Calling that rape is kind of absurd. He pretty much tells the PC it's not a good idea and she decides to pursue.

 

I saw a video where Blackwall griped at a Lady Cadash if she used her background resources (criminal) to bust his ass out of prison. The lying and his past actions I wouldn't see as such a big deal (considering the actions of many other companions I like), it's the leaving her naked and uncovered in a barn and acted hypocritical when she rescued him that makes thos scenario annoying to me. There wasn't even an option to call him out on it his being hypocritical.

 

 

Yeah it's the self righteousness from someone who really is in the last position to be so that gets me.

[Brass_Buckles]

I saw a video where Blackwall griped at a Lady Cadash if she used her background resources (criminal) to bust his ass out of prison. The lying and his past actions I wouldn't see as such a big deal (considering the actions of many other companions I like), it's the leaving her naked and uncovered in a barn and acted hypocritical when she rescued him that makes thos scenario annoying to me. There wasn't even an option to call him out on it his being hypocritical.

 

See, after hearing about the total mess that was Blackwall--I wasn't into him in the first place.  But hearing all of the mess he was involved in, I could never play his romance.  That's not a story I'm interested in.  I mind Solas lying less, and I can't pinpoint exactly why.  We know he's done terrible things, and he's saying he's Solas, not, well, who he really is.  But, ancient elves seem to have changed their names based on how they saw themselves, so it seems to me he's not precisely lying there.  What he is doing is neglecting to tell the entire truth and misdirecting you.  There are hints throughout the game--but there are hints on Blackwall, too.  Their situations aren't entirely dissimilar, so I can't really understand why Blackwall's bothers me and Solas's doesn't.  Maybe it's that Solas clearly NEEDS to hide who he is, for reasons other than saving his own skin.  I'm not sure.

[LadyJaneGrey]

As long as they're up front with the potential relationship conflict or problem and execute it well, I'm cool watching a relationship not have a perfect ending.

 

Since this thread started out focused on the guy/gal pairings...

 

• Alistair: both Wynne and Morrigan bring up that y'all may have to choose either saving each other or saving other; it's not a huge surprise; sad, but not unsignaled
• Zevran: happily-ever-after possible
• Anders: actively tells a female Hawke that he's no good for you, stay away, etc.; acts mentally ill for good measure
• Fenris: happily-ever-after possible
• Sebastian: does DLC count?
• Blackwall: actively tells Inquisitor to get out
• Solas: tells Inquisitor it won't end well and gives her opportunities to stop at each stage
• Cullen: happily-ever-after possible
• The Iron Bull: happily-ever-after possible

For Mass Effect...

 

• Kaidan: happily-ever-after possible
• Garrus: happily-ever-after possible
• Thane: tells you in the first scene he's dying; Shepard knows what's up
• Jacob: seems really uncomfortable the first few flirty scenes; I wasn't too surprised to find he had moved on; still stinks for the players who had him as their Shepard's LI though

That's...really not a lot of forced heartbreak endings.  And even some endings I wouldn't touch with a ten-foot-pole (like Anders and Hawke still together at the end of DAII) others see as good ones.

[SardaukarElite]

I mind Solas lying less, and I can't pinpoint exactly why.  We know he's done terrible things, and he's saying he's Solas, not, well, who he really is.  But, ancient elves seem to have changed their names based on how they saw themselves, so it seems to me he's not precisely lying there.

 

When does Solas reveal himself explain who he is on the romance track?

[Ryzaki]

 

When does Solas reveal himself explain who he is on the romance track?

 

I sure in heck didn't see it.

 

Solas is a mega liar. He just didn't get caught.

[SamanthaJ]

See, after hearing about the total mess that was Blackwall--I wasn't into him in the first place.  But hearing all of the mess he was involved in, I could never play his romance.  That's not a story I'm interested in.  I mind Solas lying less, and I can't pinpoint exactly why.  We know he's done terrible things, and he's saying he's Solas, not, well, who he really is.  But, ancient elves seem to have changed their names based on how they saw themselves, so it seems to me he's not precisely lying there.  What he is doing is neglecting to tell the entire truth and misdirecting you.  There are hints throughout the game--but there are hints on Blackwall, too.  Their situations aren't entirely dissimilar, so I can't really understand why Blackwall's bothers me and Solas's doesn't.  Maybe it's that Solas clearly NEEDS to hide who he is, for reasons other than saving his own skin.  I'm not sure.

I edited my post above to say this, but Patrick Weekes did intentionally leave any sexual activity ambiguous, and this is helpful to those who are uncomfortable with the idea of having sex with someone who isn't exactly who they claim to be.