I totally agree with you there. It's an icky thing and guys don't have to deal with it. But it's not inevitable tragedy like Thane. And I do like the idea of it making them stronger together because of the hardship they've shared. A happy ending with Alistair feels earned, whereas Cullen is just so much fluffy.
Actually I was just using the evidence that we've had since then to prove that my initial lack of concern with it was proven right. Five years ago I didn't have any future knowledge, but I was not the least bit bothered by the Dark Ritual or any other Alistair issues. DAI proves I was right, as he's just fine. Happy ending IS possible.
The reason that the Dark Ritual is so awful for some of us is not because "another woman" or "another woman having Alistair's baby," but because "rape." Although Alistair does consent, the whole situation is very unpalatable. Reverse the genders. You have to send your LI to have sex with another man so that she becomes pregnant with what might be a demon baby. That isn't going to bother you even a little? Even though she makes a terrified/disgusted face right before they do the deed?
He may not be permanently scarred by it, but I can't imagine it would help his relationship with the Warden in the long run, knowing she would ask him to do such a thing--even if it truly saved both of their lives.
The situation with Alistair is interesting, because I would kinda consider that to be the ideal (aside from the dark ritual) since it involves choice and can be changed. The bump in the road is that the good ending of being queen is race gated (and class gated) and frolicking off into the sunset as a Warden leads to choosing between Alistair and your Hawke.
It's curious that people mention the 'Hawke/Alistair may die' wording of that choice too, because I thought it could just be the way they worded it, it's possible they didn't think of it being interpreted as a chance that the character survived. Ehh, I just assume whoever was left is dead. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they're not.
Also on the subject of how not having Alistair would have been an easier choice, I would have loved to have seen a choice between the Warden and Hawke. Now that would have been a really tough choice for some people to make.
Back to the whole choice thing. Being Alistair's mistress isn't an ideal choice (for some people) for a number of reasons, but before we knew about the whole Hawke/Alistair choice you could go with staying a Warden and keeping Alistair one as a happier alternate choice. Of course that also means you change who you support as King/Queen, but that adds to making the choice a bit tougher to make, you have to change your mind about something to get the end result you want.
I would have loved to see that choice in other romances. With Thane as an example, just having the chance to not get him killed by Kai Leng so that he's still alive at the end, and possibly have some news on a cure in progress if you're lucky. That way it's not a fluffy happy ending and could still go both ways, but not as badly handled as it was either. Have things that the player needs to have done, choices and quests so they have to work for it, but just knowing that you can get to a better result can be very motivating for people.
The problem is not that it involves choice. That's the good thing about it. The problem is that it involves so many choices, any of which could go wrong, in order to have a remotely happy ending with Alistair, that it's very hard to actually achieve said "happy ending." Some people love that, some people use guidebooks, and some people like myself consider it akin to jumping through hoops. There's a point where there are too many choices, or that the choices are too meticulous? I am not sure how to say it. I do want to work for happiness, but there's a point at which working for happiness becomes more like slogging and having to do research etc. and you have to actually plan for a romance instead of just playing and enjoying the game.
It's more like it's kinda stink that if you want a happy ending with Alistair, you are forced to let him cheat. If you romance Morrigan, you don't have to let her sleep with Alistair, you have a choice in the matter.
It's not cheating; you did ask him to go do it. The problem for me is that you ask him to sleep with someone he hates and does not want to sleep with in order to conceive what you think will be a demon baby. He consents, but that doesn't make it a whole lot easier or better.
It's weird for me that people have so many problems with the Dark Ritual. I've found it one of the best twists in the game and one of the 2 best things about romancing Alistair, the other being the consequences of him becoming the king. It was the thing that made romancing him actually interesting, because happy ending had a real price. I'm not a big fan of the romance itself, because while Alistair himself is a fine character, knightly types do nothing for me, but narratively, I've loved this a lot. I don't like happy endings that come too easily. Having to become a mistress (which is, btw, a very happy ending for the world the characters live in - just forget about your modern sensibilities for a bit), having to persuade your lover have a kid with another woman - both are tough choices, but they make the outcome feel actually earned. I'd prefer it if Bioware made more romances in this vein.
See my explanation above; it has little or nothing to do, at least for me, with his being with another woman or having a baby with her. It's more the skeevy factor of his having to do this with someone he hates and clearly doesn't really want to.
Dont say males havent had their heart broken this game, look at how many threads there are for more straight male romance option, and almost half of this forum want to romance Harding...
I have little pity for people who whinge about the appearance of their LIs. Straight women characters were originally going to just have Iron Bull and Blackwall, neither of whom I find attractive in the least, and yet I would not have made a big forum post about that.
This thread is not about the number of romances available--I am not complaining on that score and I honestly would rather everyone had even numbers of romances (but I'm glad we DID get Cullen and Solas, because Iron Bull and Blackwall are so not my thing and let's face it, neither are particularly mass-appeal types). It's also not about how sexy our LIs are or aren't, or how we wish they would be more masculine, or how we wish Dorian would be bisexual/straight (which I don't wish in any case because he's awesome the way he is).
This thread is about calling attention to the fact that there is a disproportionate amount of unavoidable heartbreak (and just plain skeeviness at times) for in-game romances intended for straight female characters (who may be played by straight men, or LGBT people, so it doesn't just affect straight women players). Plus Alistair, who is debatable, but whose romance is so difficult to get a "good" ending with that I felt he should be listed. (Alistair-level difficulty is... kind of ridiculous; if it were toned down by one choice or two that you might make, it would actually be perfect, imho.)
Again, I don't say it's sexism. I think it's simply something that may have not been noticed, or something the developers may think all of us greatly enjoy--because we're certainly enthusiastic in talking about the characters. But here's the thing: If they are intentionally avoiding giving heartbreak to straight male characters, under the belief that this will make straight male players upset, why do they assume that the players of straight female characters somehow enjoy this treatment more than the males?
And I know some people like tragedy; I do in limited doses--I'd argue that even though I hate how Solas's romance ends, his actually makes sense to be tragic (I'd prefer if we got a DLC to make it have more closure and/or possibly end happily, but if it doesn't... it makes sense) and I love it even though I felt really horrible for my character.
Part of the problem is that when there's too much heartbreak, it begins to lose its impact and its memorability, or equally bad, it just makes players feel bitter about playing the in-game romances at all. Solas would have been enough in the heartbreakers department. But then we have Blackwall who leaves the Inquisitor naked and alone in a barn only to find out that he lied to her all this time. Why not have it be hot make-up/forgiveness sex, instead of having it happen in that skeevy way? Why leave her in the bottom of the barn instead of the somewhat more private loft?
So yeah. Either spread that heartbreak around or just have less of it overall. If guys don't want heartbreak romances all the time, what on Earth makes anyone think women do?
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