1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Cell1e]

I put up with the whole sleeping with Morrigan thing just to save ensure my girl and Alastair could live after the whole event. It seemed like the best of a bad situation, It was a shame though, I was horrified the first time I played played through it. I also made sure in every playthrough bar the 'human noble' that I put Anora on the throne. 

 

I felt she shouldn't have to be disposed just cause her Dad was a looney tune. Also it meant my warden and Alistair could run off together and be happy.

 

Not such a good choice for Inquisition then when I'm left with the choice of either letting Alistair or my Hawke die. I then had to rush off and change my choices in the keep so I wouldn't have to make THAT choice again. (Sorry Stroud)

 

I felt that Cullen was a wonderful romance, probably one of the best ever. All the chats and love scenes and a repeatable kiss scene too!! 

 

So glad I didn't brave the beard and romance Blackwall, I didnt like his attitude during any part of the game so hearing he ups and leaves after the love scene- thats a no no! 

 

What happened with Solas I don't know... he doesnt give many hugs or repeatable kisses. (Ahh but the kiss scene you do get is HOT!)

 

Phew Solas is a hottie but also a coldie cause he doesn't really give my inquisitor the attention she needs and deserves, Then he just dumps her without any explanation...hmmm not cool Solas. However I will chase after him if theres a dlc. 

 

In ME, I liked the Kaidan romance but it wasn't well fleshed out. There were times he just wasn't there for my character in the sad times, no hugs in comfort, he was a hottie but pretty useless as a friend and cuddler. I felt that in Mass Effect romances were a lot less of a priority than in DA games.

 

Don't get me started on the Star Wars romances, lol. There were some pretty terrible female romance options in those stories too. Remember sleezy Doc and what about Quinn, who romances you THEN plots to kill you. Thats a horrific romance and the ONLY romance option for the Sith warrior female. 

 

Torian and Corso were sweet though. Ahh Torian ... 

 

DA2 romances were awful for me. I could not like Fenris, however hard I tried, he was just too emo and depressing and so few hugs and kisses. Not only was Anders emo but he was also crazy, again hardly any hugs or kisses from him too. Just terrible choices in that game for both sexes I believe. 

 

Yeah so DAI Cullen romance was such a relief for me and I have played through the game 6 times and romanced him 4/6 times. Well I did try Bull but yeah hes friend material but not really my cup of tea with his talk about tying up and safe words and the fact that he flirts and sleeps with everything and anything. A bit of a man ****. Him and Isabella should get together. 

[Innsmouth Dweller]

wait. what?

 

i rarely do romance PTs (if i do only to check the content i missed, they feel awkward and silly). this time i did romance a NPC on my very first PT. and it was amazing - fits the story perfectly.

maybe i'm a bit detached from a game character - i wasn't heartbroken or anything, just moved by it (ohai Solas). i think devs did brilliant thing with it - the ending scene is for player, not a character i was RPing - as a player i'm moved, my PC tho would rage, so... yeah... nicely done

 

anyway... i want more of those :3

[Abelas Forever!]

Really? a male  warden for example, if chooses not sleep with morrigan in that final time and also refuse to have someone else sleep with her due to lack of trust or ethical excuses, then the he sees the consequence in fighting flemeth alone in DAI which is hard and Morrigan ending up dead/possessed. No consequence? really? Or where Shepard has to choose one of the three options in the end of ME3 that all end up making him dead? although in ME3 I was hoping to see what happens when the devs said "if you be unfaithful to your LI during ME1 and Me2, you would face consequences.". I was hoping for a fight, a betrayal, a walking away on Shepard. But nothing. 

Of course male PC's choices have consequences. I'm trying to say that if you are romancing Leliana for example then you have a choice to do the DR yourself, make Alistair/Loghain do it or not do it at all. So if somebody has done it then nobody dies in the final battle. If nobody has done it then if you take Alistair/Loghain with you in the final battle and you can have happy ending with Leliana. You have so many more choices which leads to happy ending.

 

In ME3 the choices in the end are same for everybody.

[UnknownIntrigue]

Of course male PC's choices have consequences. I'm trying to say that if you are romancing Leliana for example then you have a choice to do the DR yourself, make Alistair/Loghain do it or not do it at all. So if somebody has done it then nobody dies in the final battle. If nobody has done it then if you take Alistair/Loghain with you in the final battle and you can have happy ending with Leliana. You have so many more choices which leads to happy ending.

 

In ME3 the choices in the end are same for everybody.

I said that I didn't want to be unfaithful to Leliana.  Are you saying that a female doesn't have a choice but to force Alistair (or Loghain) against his will to do the Dark Ritual  because he hates Morrigan? But you see a female PC  doesn't have to do the ritual at all. She can choose to commit the ultimate sacrifice. And as an Elf, a female PC cannot marry Alistair anyway.  And depends on how it plays out if her approval rating with him is low Alistair won't take  an Elf PC as a mistres. Beside, the female Elf PC might not like Alistair in the first place, which cuts out that optiion.

 

This is the same for a human female PC. She might not like Alistair and doesn't want to be queen or his mistress. The argument about Alistair is only valid if a female PC wants to be his mistress as an elf or a mage or his queen as a female Noble. If none of those is true, the point of a PC having a happy ending with Alistair is moot.  The choice rests on the tfemale player if she wants to live or die.  If she wants to die this happy ending is also moot and if she wants to live, she's consciously making that decision and that involves deciding to send her lover if it is Alistair to bed another woman. It is the choice and path she takes willingl

[Abelas Forever!]

 

I said that I didn't want to be unfaithful to Leliana.  Are you saying that a female doesn't have a choice but to force Alistair (or Loghain) against his will to do the Dark Ritual  because he hates Morrigan? But you see a female PC  doesn't have to do the ritual at all. She can choose to commit the ultimate sacrifice. And as an Elf, a female PC cannot marry Alistair anyway.  And depends on how it plays out if her approval rating with him is low Alistair won't take  an Elf PC as a mistres. Beside, the female Elf PC might not like Alistair in the first place, which cuts out that optiion.

 

This is the same for a human female PC. She might not like Alistair and doesn't want to be queen or his mistress. The argument about Alistair is only valid if a female PC wants to be his mistress as an elf or a mage or his queen as a female Noble. If none of those is true, the point of a PC having a happy ending with Alistair is moot.  The choice rests on the tfemale player if she wants to live or die.  If she wants to die this happy ending is also moot and if she wants to live, she's consciously making that decision and that involves deciding to send her lover if it is Alistair to bed another woman. It is the choice and path she takes willingl

 

All I'm trying to say is that there is no way to not do the DR and still have a happy ending with Alistair. It's more like bitter sweet happy ending. You are describing the ways Alistair romance can go wrong. Those are valid points. It can go wrong in many ways but doesn't that prove the thing that it's harder to romance a male LI and have  a happy ending with him?

[UnknownIntrigue]

All I'm trying to say is that there is no way to not do the DR and still have a happy ending with Alistair. It's more like bitter sweet happy ending. You are describing the ways Alistair romance can go wrong. Those are valid points. It can go wrong in many ways but doesn't that prove the thing that it's harder to romance a male LI and have  a happy ending with him?

Well, no, a female PC, can have  a happy ending with Alistair still if she decides to have Alistair do the Dark Ritual.  It is a decision that they both made together.  It is a decision that will have consequences later on as you can see  in Dragon Age: Inquisition and later on possibly with the son that was conceived  by means of the Dark Ritual if the PC decided to accept Morrigan's offer. The world of Thedas is ibig. I'm sure many stories wiill soon follow. I will disapppointed if that doesn't happen.

 

What is a happy ending? Having the LI alive at your side? What about cherising the LI's memory? What about enjoying the good times you had with that LI? What about the happy moments, the laughter and the intimate moments your PC shared with that love interest?  A happy ending can occur in many ways. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to have the LI present or alive or with you.

[Elsariel]

I pointed out that he did consent, but it is still a very skeevy borderline situation. He's just been told that if he doesn't have sex that he doesn't want to have with someone he hates, then either he or his loved one will die. He agrees to it, so it's NOT rape, but it's so close that it's an incredibly "wrong" situation. Even his facial expression, for all that they could manage ten years ago, was terrified and unhappy.

Whether you consider the Dark Ritual rape or not (I think it's borderline--which is what I was trying to say above), it's something that never, ever should have been a decision that players had to make. It's one thing for a male Warden who romanced Morrigan--Oh sure have his baby! Quite another to send Alistair-who-hates-Morrigan to have sex with Morrigan, whom he doesn't want to have sex with.

And again when you reverse the genders--say it wasn't possible for the Male Warden to sex up Romanced!Morrigan for the DR, but instead he had to send Alistair or Loghain to do the deed--it looks really, really bad.

I get what you're trying to say but I just think we really need to be careful when we're throwing out the rape card.

I've seen it too often here and in other places to really be not ok with it. Dark Ritual? It's like rape. Blackwall's romance? Like rape. Fade escapades with Solas? A little rapey.

Can you see how this might spiral so far to where we lose the true meaning of the word?

On a different note, I am not in the camp that thinks Alistair viscerally hates Morrigan with every fiber of his being. I think, he thinks she's a ****** and is extremely wary of her, but I don't think he all out hates her. Not like he hates Loghain. In my game, Morrigan and my Warden are close friends and she trusted her. He knew this. Morrigan, I think was fond of the both of us and, aside of having her own agenda, she genuinely didn't want to see us die.

What I think was missing is a deep meaningful conversation with Alistair discussing the pros and cons of the situation and coming to a mutual agreement on how to proceed. I think, also, having a third alternative would have been helpful. Unfortunately, that will never be the case.

My fear in all this discussing of heartbreak romances is that all Bioware will take from this is "Oh, they want Cullen-like romances" and all we'll see in DA4 is fluffy sugary sweet romances with all the dark hard choices taken out for fear they don't offend anyone. I love Cullen's romance, but it was lacking a little depth for me and I certainly don't want that for every romance hearafter.

[Addai]

30+ pages?!

 

I get that people are heartbroken over Solas, but I think, taking it a bit far. Maybe because I didn't play ME3 and watched the Morri guys agonize for nearly a year- recall that no one knew what Morrigan was up to or how that would be resolved and even after Witch Hunt no one was sure what would happen- but this seems unfair to the DA writers and the kind of thing that would make them think the romances aren't worth it because people get too invested.

 

The Dark Ritual is moving because it potentially involves betrayal of friendship, love, sacrifice, and a child's life. If you want Bioware to not mess with any of those areas, the story's going to be pretty thin.

 

Plus I think we should give them a chance to resolve the Solas story line before we raise pitchforks.

[whitless256]

On a different note, I am not in the camp that thinks Alistair viscerally hates Morrigan with every fiber of his being. I think, he thinks she's a ****** and is extremely wary of her, but I don't think he all out hates her. Not like he hates Loghain. In my game, Morrigan and my Warden are close friends and she trusted her. He knew this. Morrigan, I think was fond of the both of us and, aside of having her own agenda, she genuinely didn't want to see us die.

What I think was missing is a deep meaningful conversation with Alistair discussing the pros and cons of the situation and coming to a mutual agreement on how to proceed. I think, also, having a third alternative would have been helpful. Unfortunately, that will never be the case.
 

 

I agree.  I never got the impression that Alistair loathes Morrigan.  They have an antagonistic relationship, as they have opposing opinions on most issues, magic in particular.  After Adamant, Alistair grins and says "Tell Morrigan....  Tell Morrigan I just stood there the whole time looking foolish."   He's poking fun at himself there in the context of their relationship.  If he viscerally hated her, he wouldn't even mention her. 

[Ryzaki]

This thread is about asking BW to spread the drama around. Not sterilize everything. (That said I wouldn't be unopposed to finally not getting the nonsense laden romances at all for a change.)

[juliet_capulet]

One might argue that the whole problem is that the Ritual shouldn't have been written to involve sex at all. That when it comes to manipulating a player into making "hard choices" that anything involving sex is off limits.

Added creepiness factor: they make you watch it.

[Addai]

Okay but I still don't get how it's supposed to be piled on the female players. There was Morrigan, and Leliana who's moved on to doing her own thing. All the DA2 LI's were bi, so moot. Cullen's romance is pretty much sugar sweet and drama-free, and Garrus... *clings to Garrus as an island of sanity in the universe*

 

Solas broke many hearts but the romance is done so well, and I'm 99% sure it's not done yet. To me it's not "nonsense laden" to have your LI be plot critical. It comes with its positives and negatives.

[AlanC9]

This thread is about asking BW to spread the drama around. Not sterilize everything. (That said I wouldn't be unopposed to finally not getting the nonsense laden romances at all for a change.)

So maybe we should be asking for more heartbreak romances for male PCs?

[AlanC9]

Added creepiness factor: they make you watch it.

Hmm.... now I'm picturing an alternate version of the scene where we stay with the Warden's POV rather than going into the room with Alistair and Morrigan. (I'd want the Warden's face out of the shot, though, since I don't think Bio could have accomodated our various reactions properly.)

Would not seeing what went on in there be less creepy, or even more creepy?

[Ryzaki]

So maybe we should be asking for more heartbreak romances for male PCs?

 

Then make a thread on it. Do you even agree with the OP?

[AlanC9]

Then make a thread on it. Do you even agree with the OP?

I agree that the heartbreak should be balanced between PC genders. I don't want to get there by cutting back on the heartbreak, though; I'd get there by adding more on the male side. So... I kinda agree with the OP?

[Ryzaki]

I agree that the heartbreak should be balanced between PC genders. I don't want to get there by cutting back on the heartbreak, though; I'd get there by adding more on the male side. So... I kinda agree with the OP?

 

Fair enough.

 

Honestly I think the males could use some of the drama laden romances as well. I'm just tired of em. It was nice at first but after a while it's just "oh look again." especially since it's so lopsided and I'm side eyeing all the ways males can avoid the BS.

[whitless256]

Hmm.... now I'm picturing an alternate version of the scene where we stay with the Warden's POV rather than going into the room with Alistair and Morrigan. (I'd want the Warden's face out of the shot, though, since I don't think Bio could have accomodated our various reactions properly.)

Would not seeing what went on in there be less creepy, or even more creepy?

 

Given what I've seen of a lot of the imagination players of this game seem to have, they'd all imagine it was way worse than it was. 

[TevinterSupremacist]

I'm not sure do I understand what you are trying to say here. Are saying that because there isn't anything similar like romance novels targeted to women then Morrigan romance is an attemp to do something similar like those romance novels but for men. Are you saying that it's harder to men to deal with the Morrigan romance because they have not used to that kind of drama?

 

I wasn't refering to the DR specifically, I was refering to OP's original point that "romances for female pcs have on average more drama than ones for male ones". My point wasn't about male players at all and wasn't refering to the DR. It was that "romantic literature aimed at women in general has lots of drama in it, regardless on whether the ending is good or bad and also usually , even if the ending is good, the drama period took more screentime, therefore bioware following this trend is to be accepted and logical."

[juliet_capulet]

Hmm.... now I'm picturing an alternate version of the scene where we stay with the Warden's POV rather than going into the room with Alistair and Morrigan. (I'd want the Warden's face out of the shot, though, since I don't think Bio could have accomodated our various reactions properly.)

Would not seeing what went on in there be less creepy, or even more creepy?

Not seeing what went on is definitely less creepy.

[AlanC9]

Not seeing what went on is definitely less creepy.

I dunno; my thinking's more like whitless256 above; I think it would make it easy for the player to imagine bad stuff. Like, say, Alistair really being into it? 

Though there's something of a voyeurism creep factor in the existing scene, which the PC isn't seeing and I'm not sure we should be seeing. I'm not a fan of cutscenes showing me stuff the PC wouldn't know in the first place, but since Bio's been doing that since BG2 this obviously isn't a big issue for me.

[Abelas Forever!]

 

Well, no, a female PC, can have  a happy ending with Alistair still if she decides to have Alistair do the Dark Ritual.  It is a decision that they both made together.  It is a decision that will have consequences later on as you can see  in Dragon Age: Inquisition and later on possibly with the son that was conceived  by means of the Dark Ritual if the PC decided to accept Morrigan's offer. The world of Thedas is ibig. I'm sure many stories wiill soon follow. I will disapppointed if that doesn't happen.

 

What is a happy ending? Having the LI alive at your side? What about cherising the LI's memory? What about enjoying the good times you had with that LI? What about the happy moments, the laughter and the intimate moments your PC shared with that love interest?  A happy ending can occur in many ways. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to have the LI present or alive or with you.

 

To me the happy ending is the one where the couple can be together in the end. It's just the road to a happy ending is so bitter when we talk about Alistair and warden because I really hate that Alistair has to sleep with Morrigan. Maybe the idea that Leliana would have to sleep with another man is not a big deal to you but I really hate the idea that my LI has to sleep with somebody else. Then there was also Thane which I knew would end badly but it I wanted to try it because I like Thane very much. Now there is Solas romance which outcome is still mystery. And when I compare the outcome of the other romances with female LIs and I see that there is always a way to a happy ending. It's just frustrating.

 

 

Okay but I still don't get how it's supposed to be piled on the female players. There was Morrigan, and Leliana who's moved on to doing her own thing. All the DA2 LI's were bi, so moot. Cullen's romance is pretty much sugar sweet and drama-free, and Garrus... *clings to Garrus as an island of sanity in the universe*

 

Solas broke many hearts but the romance is done so well, and I'm 99% sure it's not done yet. To me it's not "nonsense laden" to have your LI be plot critical. It comes with its positives and negatives.

Thane and Jacob romances didn't end well in ME3. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Morrigan and Leliana romances are still continuing even if Warden is somewhere else. This same situation applies also to Alistair romance because your warden is somewhere else when you meet Alistair.

 

 

I wasn't refering to the DR specifically, I was refering to OP's original point that "romances for female pcs have on average more drama than ones for male ones". My point wasn't about male players at all and wasn't refering to the DR. It was that "romantic literature aimed at women in general has lots of drama in it, regardless on whether the ending is good or bad and also usually , even if the ending is good, the drama period took more screentime, therefore bioware following this trend is to be accepted and logical."

ok.

 

[whitless256]

Thane and Jacob romances didn't end well in ME3. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Morrigan and Leliana romances are still continuing even if Warden is somewhere else. This same situation applies also to Alistair romance because your warden is somewhere else when you meet Alistair.

 

 

I can't speak to all versions of a Leliana romance, but I can give you the layout of the one I imported.

 

Leliana speaks fondly of her "love," the Warden, and is sad that they've been apart for so long.  She hopes to rejoin him after the events in Inquisition.  If she does or does not rejoin him is not answered at the end of the game, though like all Wardens, he's off wandering around trying to cure the Calling.  He does add something in his note asking the Inquisitor to look after Leliana and not let her lose her faith.

 

Leliana is announced at Halamshiral as "mistress to the prince-consort of Ferelden" so it's clear in the game that they're still considered an item.  However, it's also pretty clear that they really don't see much of each other.  Leliana did not become Divine in this version of my game, but if she were to become Divine, I doubt they'd be together much more than they had been before.  Duty has kept them apart for most of the romance.

 

Feel free to rate that on the tragic/bittersweet scale however you like.    That's just the possibility I got on my game.

[Savvie]

I understand why there is a want to not have so many heartbreaking romances, but realize too that females (especially straight females) were given the most romance options. I'd say females were treated the best this time around. I'm still in favor of Bioware just going with an equal amount of romances for everyone but try to add more variety with races, etc, and yes please avoid going with the same pattern of tragic romances or men who were already married and lost their spouse stories.