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[Abelas Forever!]

I can't speak to all versions of a Leliana romance, but I can give you the layout of the one I imported.

 

Leliana speaks fondly of her "love," the Warden, and is sad that they've been apart for so long.  She hopes to rejoin him after the events in Inquisition.  If she does or does not rejoin him is not answered at the end of the game, though like all Wardens, he's off wandering around trying to cure the Calling.  He does add something in his note asking the Inquisitor to look after Leliana and not let her lose her faith.

 

Leliana is announced at Halamshiral as "mistress to the prince-consort of Ferelden" so it's clear in the game that they're still considered an item.  However, it's also pretty clear that they really don't see much of each other.  Leliana did not become Divine in this version of my game, but if she were to become Divine, I doubt they'd be together much more than they had been before.  Duty has kept them apart for most of the romance.

 

Feel free to rate that on the tragic/bittersweet scale however you like.    That's just the possibility I got on my game.

I would consider that a happy ending It's sad that they can't be together very much but they are still together and they still see each other time to time. I think the romance can be heartbreaking but still end happily. I would say that Solas romance has this good heartbreak thing going on. It's heartbreaking that he leaves but it's all worth it if he comes back and you can take him back. I think it would be even better if the decision is hard like you will have to leave and never come back. I could imagine that I would be crying tears of happiness because they are finally together but also tears of sorrow because they have suffered so much. But if that won't happen then the romance was pointless.

 

I'm not sure how much better it would have been if there would have a scene with Alistair where he and warden can discuss about the DR and comfort each others. I think if it would have been handled well then quite much would have been saved. Because now it's like you ask Alistair to sleep with Morrigan and he quite easily says yes and then it happens and they don't really discuss about it.

[Grayvisions]

What Bioware romances have taught me: Women are fools, men are assholes, and nothing you do is ever actually going to change the outcome of anything so maybe just go watch a movie till the world ends, instead.

[whitless256]

I would consider that a happy ending It's sad that they can't be together very much but they are still together and they still see each other time to time. I think the romance can be heartbreaking but still end happily. I would say that Solas romance has this good heartbreak thing going on. It's heartbreaking that he leaves but it's all worth it if he comes back and you can take him back. I think it would be even better if the decision is hard like you will have to leave and never come back. I could imagine that I would be crying tears of happiness because they are finally together but also tears of sorrow because they have suffered so much. But if that won't happen then the romance was pointless.

 

I'm not sure how much better it would have been if there would have a scene with Alistair where he and warden can discuss about the DR and comfort each others. I think if it would have been handled well then quite much would have been saved. Because now it's like you ask Alistair to sleep with Morrigan and he quite easily says yes and then it happens and they don't really discuss about it.

 

I wouldn't say that about Solas.     The romance won't be pointless, even if he doesn't come back to her.  Tis better to have loved and lost than never loved at all.  I don't think my Inquisitor would say that the romance was pointless because she would have some happy memories to hold on to, even if it ends tragically. 

[Abelas Forever!]

I wouldn't say that about Solas.     The romance won't be pointless, even if he doesn't come back to her.  Tis better to have loved and lost than never loved at all.  I don't think my Inquisitor would say that the romance was pointless because she would have some happy memories to hold on to, even if it ends tragically. 

Well to me it is pointless because remembering all the good times tastes bitter when you know that it didn't last forever and it's over now. I also love it so much when the couple gets back together. Because then I can be happy for them but if they don't get back together then I'm mourning that they didn't get each other when they were meant to be together and they are doomed to be alone forever and suffer.

[whitless256]

Well to me it is pointless because remembering all the good times tastes bitter when you know that it didn't last forever and it's over now. I also love it so much when the couple gets back together. Because then I can be happy for them but if they don't get back together then I'm mourning that they didn't get each other when they were meant to be together and they are doomed to be alone forever and suffer.

 

So life is pointless cause bad things happen?  No one is doomed to be alone forever.  Nothing is stopping the Inquisitor from moving on and finding love elsewhere.  I know my character is not the type of woman to let her life be ruined and loveless because one guy did her wrong.  I cannot for the life of me comprehend that there are so many people who think life is ruined from one bad thing.  If one bad thing ruined a life, I've been doing life wrong for a long time. 

 

Again, not saying it's not sad or tragic, but if it ruins the Inquisitor's entire life... a woman who went through so much hardship with so much strength... that's just inconsistent with her character. She's been through way too much to let one jerk ruin her for the rest of her life.

[Inanna Athanasia]

I agree for the most part. I have posted before how much I hate it if you play a female since it seems like any choice not a previous game choice will only leave you to chose same sex in ME3 ( My 1st female romanced no one in ME1 and kept Ash alive, romanced Thane in ME2 and then had only girl options in ME3). I hate that they seem to always have better male options then female ones. I have played DA:I 2x now and working on my hard run now and only romance Cullen just cause he at least stays with you and doesn't leave you hanging. I can kinda understand Solas a bit more after seeing who he fully is, but Blackwall? You save him and bring him back and can't pick up the romance? OK, maybe if you chose to send him to Wardens afterward but if he stays, good grief, after all you have done for him and thats it? Grrrrr....

 

In Origins, my females always romance Alistair and he never leaves me, whether I am his Queen or lover. I always found it humorous if you marry him to Anora and stay his lover. At the end, he tells you Anora can go find her own Warden and can't wait to be alone with you,lol. I always laugh in DA:2 if you remain his lover and the bartender at the Hang Man mentions that King Alistair has a (Dwarf of Elf) lover and he wonders what the Queen thinks about that. While I can see why some find the whole stay his lover thing not so hot especially if he marries Anora, I guess I look at it as Anora only wants to keep her crown and can't stand Alistair anyway, so whats the harm? If not married to Anora, I don't see any problem as Alistair is obviously someone who will stay 100% true to you and never cheat or anything. In fact in Awakening at the end I always get where the warden goes back to court and eventually her and Alistair vanish together.

 

But yeah, it has always made me feel that BioWare is designed more for Males then Females. I have played both sexes in all the games I have and found much more humor and better options for men then women characters. Shoot in Origins a male Warden can ask for a kiss as payment in how many situations? Same way, the females in the camp fight over who gets the male Warden in party banter but no one but Alistair ever seems to say anything about a female Warden (Wynne and asking him about the sway of your Wardens hips is always a hoot!). ME series is even worse then DA in my opinion, but I won't rant for hours on that one,lol. Bottom line is women get seriously screwed when it comes to BioWare love, unless you like them to say I love you and leave you type of thing.

[Abelas Forever!]

So life is pointless cause bad things happen?  No one is doomed to be alone forever.  Nothing is stopping the Inquisitor from moving on and finding love elsewhere.  I know my character is not the type of woman to let her life be ruined and loveless because one guy did her wrong.  I cannot for the life of me comprehend that there are so many people who think life is ruined from one bad thing.  If one bad thing ruined a life, I've been doing life wrong for a long time. 

 

Again, not saying it's not sad or tragic, but if it ruins the Inquisitor's entire life... a woman who went through so much hardship with so much strength... that's just inconsistent with her character. She's been through way too much to let one jerk ruin her for the rest of her life.

I didn't mean it like that. I mean that in real life when somebody dumbs you then you will deal with it and move on. But when I play video games I don't want to experience a romance where somebody dumbs me or cheats on me and then I will have to deal with it. I want to experience a romance where I have a possibility to imagine that the couple will be together forever and they are meant to be together or whatever I want to imagine. And this is possible if the couple are together in the end. For example in ME3 when I chose the red ending I always thought that Shepard and her LI will eventually be together. There was hope and it wasn't too fluffy and you could chose something else if you wanted more tragical outcome.

 

For my Lavellan Solas is the only man she will ever want and if she can't have him then she will be alone forever and I believe that Solas will be alone too and they both will suffer greatly.

[Inanna Athanasia]

I didn't mean it like that. I mean that in real life when somebody dumbs you then you will deal with it and move on. But when I play video games I don't want to experience a romance where somebody dumbs me or cheats on me and then I will have to deal with it. I want to experience a romance where I have a possibility to imagine that the couple will be together forever and they are meant to be together or whatever I want to imagine. And this is possible if the couple are together in the end. For example in ME3 when I chose the red ending I always thought that Shepard and her LI will eventually be together. There was hope and it wasn't too fluffy and you could chose something else if you wanted more tragical outcome.

 

For my Lavellan Solas is the only man she will ever want and if she can't have him then she will be alone forever and I believe that Solas will be alone too and they both will suffer greatly.

 

Exactly. While I believe that any of my characters whether it is my Warden, Hawke, Inquisitor or Shep is more then strong enough to go on after losing the one they love, but why should they have too? Real life can be rough and painful and so forth where love is concerned and when I play a game, yeah I want the true love forever kind of thing.

[whitless256]

Does anyone else here see the irony of having some of the people asking for less drama being the ones with the most dramatic outlook of life after boyfriends?

 

Realizing that this may come out sounding more rude or judgmental than I intend it to....   If you're bothered by it to the point of envisioning your character suffering for eternity, maybe Bioware games are not the right games for you. 

 

Again, not saying that spreading the pain around is a bad idea.  Totally in support of it.  But I think it's also safe to say that something bad is going to happen in the game, be it your romance or your main plot line or something else.  Bioware likes to gut punch us a lot and I think they're more likely to take the route of spreading around the pain than decreasing it.

[phaonica]

Does anyone else here see the irony of having some of the people asking for less drama being the ones with the most dramatic outlook of life after boyfriends?
 
Realizing that this may come out sounding more rude or judgmental than I intend it to....   If you're bothered by it to the point of envisioning your character suffering for eternity, maybe Bioware games are not the right games for you.

Admittedly I've never had to endure a heartbreaking breakup IRL. I've been very fortunate. Perhaps my outlook on this would be very different if I'd ever personally experienced something like it. I don't know.

[whitless256]

Admittedly I've never had to endure a heartbreaking breakup IRL. I've been very fortunate. Perhaps my outlook on this would be very different if I'd ever personally experienced something like it. I don't know.

 

I've also, fortunately, never had a bad breakup, but I did have my older brother, with whom I was very close, die unexpectedly.  So yeah, it's not a romance, but it was a really heavy heartbreak for me.  I was closer to my brother than to anyone else.  So maybe there's something particular about a romantic heartbreak that's a lot worse, so maybe I really don't know.  But I do have a sense of how to move on from a tragedy and still live a happy, fulfilling life.  That's the place I've been speaking from, for the most part. 

 

There are times, even now five years later, that I feel sad and miss him, but I'm not suffering.  And I don't think he would want me to suffer.  But like I've said before, I know I'm really good at moving on from things and trying to keep things in perspective, so I'll absolutely admit that I can't quite relate to feeling so crushed I wouldn't want to go on.

[wildannie]

Does anyone else here see the irony of having some of the people asking for less drama being the ones with the most dramatic outlook of life after boyfriends?

 

Realizing that this may come out sounding more rude or judgmental than I intend it to....   If you're bothered by it to the point of envisioning your character suffering for eternity, maybe Bioware games are not the right games for you. 

 

Again, not saying that spreading the pain around is a bad idea.  Totally in support of it.  But I think it's also safe to say that something bad is going to happen in the game, be it your romance or your main plot line or something else.  Bioware likes to gut punch us a lot and I think they're more likely to take the route of spreading around the pain than decreasing it.

It does sound kind of rude and insulting tbh,  and speaking personally,  I've not really had masses of heartbreak from ex partners it something I've had to deal out way more than receive, its part of RL and we just have to get on with it.  However, I am 100% for the chance of a glimmer of hope in the end of ALL RPG game romances so...

[Renmiri1]

It is getting old

 

Anders romance is mentioned as a "happy ending" but it is not, you get ONE LINE from him asking you to forgive him for not trusting you with his plan. You are never given the opportunity to join him or dump him yourself, nor to change his mind.  Why couldn't the chantry bomb not be done by Orsino or by another desperate mage if you change his mind ?

 

Solas romance ends exactly the same as Anders romance. Worse. Anders stays, Solas dumps you. But both have plans where they decide without consulting you that you are not going to accept it and go do it.  You get zero chances of joining Solas, one chance of dumping him IF YOU READ SPOILERS (because there is absolutely no reason to dump Solas when the last chance to dump him happens) and zero chance to change Solas mind. I doubt there is no other being in Thedas that can be the big Tower toppling guy, but if there isn't and Quizzy can not change Solas mind, can she at least get the option to join him ?

 

Raven could go dark side and Carth stayed with her no matter what. Carth can make Raven relent at the very last minute and they die together. Was my favorite Kotor ending particularly with Raven gone on Kotor2.

 

All I want with my Solavellan playthrough is the chance to be like Carth to Solas. stay there and keep trying to make him "see the light", and maybe get a little poignant tragic ending where they are together. Because as Patrick Weekes said he loves her so even if he has to be the next Corypheous I want at least one play through where my Lavellan decides to be Mrs Bad Guy and makes sandwiches for Evil Solas before he leaves to torture puppies.

 

Bah

 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Admittedly I've never had to endure a heartbreaking breakup IRL. I've been very fortunate. Perhaps my outlook on this would be very different if I'd ever personally experienced something like it. I don't know.

Me neither. One has to actually be in a relationship before one can experience a break up.

[phaonica]

Anders romance is mentioned as a "happy ending" but it is not, you get ONE LINE from him asking you to forgive him for not trusting you with his plan. You are never given the opportunity to join him or dump him yourself, nor to change his mind.  Why couldn't the chantry bomb not be done by Orsino or by another desperate mage if you change his mind ?
 
Solas romance ends exactly the same as Anders romance. Worse. Anders stays, Solas dumps you. But both have plans where they decide without consulting you that you are not going to accept it and go do it.  You get zero chances of joining Solas, one chance of dumping him IF YOU READ SPOILERS (because there is absolutely no reason to dump Solas when the last chance to dump him happens) and zero chance to change Solas mind. I doubt there is no other being in Thedas that can be the big Tower toppling guy, but if there isn't and Quizzy can not change Solas mind, can she at least get the option to join him ?

I remember reading a quote from Mr. Gaider about his interpretation of writing strong female characters. He said: “From my perspective, making a strong female character is about having her have her own agenda...The most important thing for me when I wrote [Origins] was that at the end even if Morrigan loved the player, she had this thing that she believed in, that was so important that she would do it regardless of the player. And I think that a lot of players expected that she would bend herself to do whatever they wanted because they’ve done the romance, gotten her approval up, and of course she would just sort of follow their destiny. But Morrigan has her own destiny.”

The writing team seems to have taken that same philosophy when writing strong any-gendered characters, evidenced by Anders and Solas. The quote might give some insight into why they write the characters so that their minds can't always be changed.

All I want with my Solavellan playthrough is the chance to be like Carth to Solas. stay there and keep trying to make him "see the light", and maybe get a little poignant tragic ending where they are together. Because as Patrick Weekes said he loves her so even if he has to be the next Corypheous I want at least one play through where my Lavellan decides to be Mrs Bad Guy and makes sandwiches for Evil Solas before he leaves to torture puppies.

This may not be the thread for it, but you're not the first person who has implied that they would do evil things to get their happy ending with Solas. Out of curiosity, do you also find that the DR is not an acceptable way to get a happy ending with Alistair, or are you fine with it?

[Renmiri1]

Me neither. One has to actually be in a relationship before one can experience a break up.

 

 

I'm a divorced mom of 2 kids. I experienced all kinds of stuff in RL and that is not the issue.  Even unlucky in love as I have been on RL, I have never had such a tragic love life as I had on Bioware games  . Granted I only went for the easy guy once.. Alistair x Noble.. And even there I had to let him sleep with Morrigan and conceive a child to be able to get some time with him.

 

Sheesh Bioware you have to work very hard at tragedy to make a virtual romantic life worse than my actual romantic life! I manage to romance the sorriest sob's ever and even I never had to go through all that my poor Warden, Hawke, Shepard and Lavellan went. 

[Renmiri1]

I remember reading a quote from Mr. Gaider about his interpretation of writing strong female characters. He said: “From my perspective, making a strong female character is about having her have her own agenda,” Gaider says. “The most important thing for me when I wrote [Origins] was that at the end even if Morrigan loved the player, she had this thing that she believed in, that was so important that she would do it regardless of the player. And I think that a lot of players expected that she would bend herself to do whatever they wanted because they’ve done the romance, gotten her approval up, and of course she would just sort of follow their destiny. But Morrigan has her own destiny.”

The writing team seems to have taken that same philosophy when writing strong any-gendered characters, evidenced by Anders and Solas. The quote might given some insight into why they write the characters so that their minds can't always be changed.

This may not be the thread for it, but you're not the first person who has implied that they would do evil things to get their happy ending with Solas. Out of curiosity, do you also find that the DR is not an acceptable way to get a happy ending with Alistair, or are you fine with it?

 

Yet with Morrigan you can go after her. Not so with Anders. Or - for now - with Solas.

 

DR was a compromise that hurt my Human Noble but ya, to stay with her love she went through it.

 

And on the matter of going evil and joining Evil Solas, that would be a few of my playthroughs. Not all. Heh, I'm a Death Knight on WoW and have had to kill an entire village (ugh) and on Skyrim I sacrificed one of my followers to Boetia to get a good stealth armor. Going evil can be fun for a few playthroughs. 

 

Of course on other playthroughs my Lavellan will try to change Evil Solas mind and if unsuccessful .. God I hope she doesn't have to kill him.. but she might. Or I may just never play a Lavellan that kills solas and go Cullenmancer instead. Even then it will be hard. But I would do it at least once "for science".

 

Just as I saved Loghain, doomed Alistair to be a drunk, did the Ultimate Sacrifice and did other PTs on the previous 2 games. I even played making Anders join the templars. Ouch that was a painful PT . On another I could not murder knife Anders and was even worse, I was forced to kill him at the Gallows 

 

PS: On one PT my Human Noble shared Allistair with Isabella and was perfectly fine sharing him with Morrigan. she was Isabella #2 that one.

[phaonica]

Yet with Morrigan you can go after her. Not so with Anders. Or - for now - with Solas.

Are Hawke and Anders not considered together in DAI if they were a couple at the end of DA2? Most of the couples seem to be separated one way or another, but they still consider themselves together.
 

DR was a compromise that hurt my Human Noble but ya, to stay with her love she went through it.

I had just wondered if the DR prevented the Alistair romance story from having what you consider to be a happy ending. Thank you
 

And on the matter of going evil and joining Evil Solas, that would be a few of my playthroughs. Not all. Heh, I'm a Death Knight on WoW and have had to kill an entire village (ugh) and on Skyrim I sacrificed one of my followers to Boetia to get a good stealth armor. Going evil can be fun for a few playthroughs. 
 
Of course on other playthroughs my Lavellan will try to change Evil Solas mind and if unsuccessful .. God I hope she doesn't have to kill him.. but she might. Or I may just never play a Lavellan that kills solas and go Cullenmancer instead. Even then it will be hard. But I would do it at least once "for science".
 
Just as I saved Loghain, doomed Alistair to be a drunk, did the Ultimate Sacrifice and did other PTs on the previous 2 games. I even played making Anders join the templars. Ouch that was a painful PT . On another I could not murder knife Anders and was even worse, I was forced to kill him at the Gallows 
 
PS: On one PT my Human Noble shared Allistair with Isabella and was perfectly fine sharing him with Morrigan. she was Isabella #2 that one.

Fair enough. I just think it can be interesting that some people complain about or justify awful things they might have done to be with their LI, but they go ahead and do them. I like that challenge, but maybe I haven't been playing Bioware games long enough for it to have gotten old.

[whitless256]

Are Hawke and Anders not considered together in DAI if they were a couple at the end of DA2? Most of the couples seem to be separated one way or another, but they still consider themselves together.
 

 

In both of my DAI games where Hawke had romanced Anders, they were still together.  When asked, Hawke said he'd left Anders behind because he didn't want him getting involved in the mess with the Wardens.  I imagine that's probably not the same if Hawke didn't side with mages, though.  I haven't tried that import yet.

[CENIC]

Me neither. One has to actually be in a relationship before one can experience a break up.

Want my relationship experiences? I wish I could go back to thinking being in a relationship was the best thing ever I was missing out on.

[Chaos17]

I found the Dark ritual bad because anyone who romanced Alistair had to told him "please sleep with another woman" for their sake.

I prefered to kill my warden instead and too bad that the mod "slap Morrigan" wasn't out at that moment.

Of course, it didn't helped that Morrigan was so secretive about the Dark ritual and didn't say why is has to be pricesely her to have sex with and not another woman.

I mean the male warden could had done the dark ritual with Leliana instead, she is a emale and not tainted too.

 

My warden was friend with her, I was happy that with a new playthrough that I could stab her in the DLC.

Sweet vengeance for my lavelan.

[Abelas Forever!]

Exactly. While I believe that any of my characters whether it is my Warden, Hawke, Inquisitor or Shep is more then strong enough to go on after losing the one they love, but why should they have too? Real life can be rough and painful and so forth where love is concerned and when I play a game, yeah I want the true love forever kind of thing.

I believe also that all the female PCs can handle the break up. It would be nice if you could choose whether you will deal with the breakup or not.

 

Does anyone else here see the irony of having some of the people asking for less drama being the ones with the most dramatic outlook of life after boyfriends?

 

Realizing that this may come out sounding more rude or judgmental than I intend it to....   If you're bothered by it to the point of envisioning your character suffering for eternity, maybe Bioware games are not the right games for you. 

 

Again, not saying that spreading the pain around is a bad idea.  Totally in support of it.  But I think it's also safe to say that something bad is going to happen in the game, be it your romance or your main plot line or something else.  Bioware likes to gut punch us a lot and I think they're more likely to take the route of spreading around the pain than decreasing it.

I don't think it necassary has to have anything do with real life and that you have being dumbed there. It's just that in RPG games you have choices but when playing romances with male LIs then there have been less choices or no choices at all. For example in ME3 when you have to deal with the geth quarian confict and you are romancing Tali then you have choices to choose either geths or quarians. I think this is a hard decision without you even romancing Tali. But you have an option to save quarians. Of course depending how you have played the preivious games then  you ha ve an option to save both. I think you can still have enough drama and tragedy even if you can have a happy ending with your LI.

 

You know with Solas and Lavellan the thing is that they both love each others and I sense some true love between them. But the breakup happens because they can't be together. There are reasons for it. So it's not "normal" breakup which could happen where couple just decides that they don't love each other anymore or that the relationship really doesn't work or for whatever reason. I'm not imagining that outcome yet because there is still hope. But I just can't see any other outcome to that romance if they are not together. I guess I'm making the story even more tragic but that I can do. It's not that I have too bothered about breakups. For example if I had romanced Jakob before knowing what will happen then I would have just move on because he is an idiot. Solas is not an idiot.

[AlanC9]

Of course, it didn't helped that Morrigan was so secretive about the Dark ritual and didn't say why is has to be pricesely her to have sex with and not another woman.
I mean the male warden could had done the dark ritual with Leliana instead, she is a emale and not tainted too.

That'd work great if Leliana was a mage. And would have wanted anything to do with the DR. The first of those is certainly false, and I'm not sure I'd buy the second.

[Riladel]

Agree. I romanced both Blackwall and Solas during two playthroughs and I can understand the thing about Solas, it was really interesting, I liked the plot, though I was crying like a little girl, but, seriously, two romances based on lie in one game its too much. I like tragedy, but you are absolutely right - let man suffer too, why only we should cry? No sexism, really, its only about balance.

[Addai]

Does anyone else here see the irony of having some of the people asking for less drama being the ones with the most dramatic outlook of life after boyfriends?
 
Realizing that this may come out sounding more rude or judgmental than I intend it to....   If you're bothered by it to the point of envisioning your character suffering for eternity, maybe Bioware games are not the right games for you. 
 
Again, not saying that spreading the pain around is a bad idea.  Totally in support of it.  But I think it's also safe to say that something bad is going to happen in the game, be it your romance or your main plot line or something else.  Bioware likes to gut punch us a lot and I think they're more likely to take the route of spreading around the pain than decreasing it.

I would avoid psychologizing about people based on their reactions to a video game. The sense of player agency is very important to a video game experience, so developers should absolutely be careful with how they choose to take that away in high stakes moments. At the same time, if NPCs were bots who could always be molded to the player's expectations, that also would break the illusion that you're in a real world. It's a tricky balance.

I'll say this- if we're not given some more resolution on Solavellan or are railroaded into one outcome, I'll move over to the "this didn't have to suck so badly" camp. As it is, I think it has the potential to be a really great story line. Plus my Alistair and Zevran endings have all been happy, I didn't touch Anders with a ten foot pole (why is he being used as an example of a female-only LI, BTW?) and I didn't play ME3 so Shepard-Vakarian is in blissful limbo in my head, so I don't have any other reason to complain.