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[wildannie]

Yet with Morrigan you can go after her. Not so with Anders. Or - for now - with Solas.

 

And on the matter of going evil and joining Evil Solas, that would be a few of my playthroughs. Not all. Heh, I'm a Death Knight on WoW and have had to kill an entire village (ugh) and on Skyrim I sacrificed one of my followers to Boetia to get a good stealth armor. Going evil can be fun for a few playthroughs. 

 

Of course on other playthroughs my Lavellan will try to change Evil Solas mind and if unsuccessful .. God I hope she doesn't have to kill him.. but she might. Or I may just never play a Lavellan that kills solas and go Cullenmancer instead. Even then it will be hard. But I would do it at least once "for science".

 

 

We don't really know if Solas is going 'evil' at all, and I really don't think he is.  If he's going to change the world back, that is not necessarily 'evil' as the world as it is also pretty 'evil' and possibly enroute to oblivion by blight.  We know he's extremely committed to his task, and the expense of his own happiness but that doesn't mean his task is evil, if it was I don't think Flemythal would have handed over her power without question.  Is it likely to cause great upheaval with collateral damage?  probably, but does that make it worse than the current situation?  unknown.

If his actions are going to help the elven people (old and new) in the long run, then my Lavellan will be right behind him and to hell with the inquisition if it is against... greater good of her people would come before anything else, they really need help.  I actually hope that nobody gets to kill him, I think that would be incredibly sad... no more dread wolf, what an anti climax .

I will be hugely disappointed if we are railroaded to only one option for Solas in the end, choices, some happy, is what I want, and what I would gladly pay for.

[Uirebhiril]

I'm personally agreeing with what the OP says not because of negative relationship experiences - though I'm sure many of us have some of that in our past - but from a storytelling aspect. The heartbreaking tales are well told, and I appreciate them as much as I do a sweet and fluffy ending as long as it makes sense for the story and the characters. But when you use the same thing over again you dilute the whole of the experience, and it really does seem to fall biased to one side. Some guys have expressed that the simple romances offered by Cassandra and Josephine are boring, so it's apparent they would like to see a bit more drama and tragedy. I don't blame them. If all romances for women were boring and bland, I'd be just as much speaking up to add tension and drama. There's a balance to be made there, and that's all this thread was made to ask for.

 

I will say this in regard to Solas: the heartbreak and sadness fit the character and worked exactly as intended, and is unfortunate only in that it is "similar" to Blackwall's tale. Since Solas was added later, and that sort of story made sense for both characters, it did seem we had a double-dose of it this time around. On the other hand, had Solas and Cullen not been added, we would have had a choice between a liar who some find acted in a skeevy manner, and someone who a lot of people were uncomfortable with either due to appearance or the BDSM themes. Not... the best offering or interpretations for the ladies to have. Meanwhile the guys got two relatively sweet tales with their romance interests. They are characters first, love stories second, but in the end a pattern is a pattern.

[phaonica]

The sense of player agency is very important to a video game experience, so developers should absolutely be careful with how they choose to take that away in high stakes moments. At the same time, if NPCs were bots who could always be molded to the player's expectations, that also would break the illusion that you're in a real world. It's a tricky balance.

I can see where this is a tricky balance, because there is a difference between giving your players the agency to respond or take actions within the story, and giving your players as close to complete control over how the story unfolds as possible.

Some players seem to want as close to complete control over the entire story as possible, and some players want the story to be emergent, as if the game world too has it's own level of autonomy and you can't always get a perfect outcome.

So I do think that there is something to be lost if there is always a way to get a perfect outcome. Yes, you could still choose to get a tragic ending if you want it, but the story itself loses its illusion of autonomy.

(Edit: I said something I probably shouldn't have and upon reflection I take it back and apologize to whoever saw it.)

[Ryzaki]

I'm personally agreeing with what the OP says not because of negative relationship experiences - though I'm sure many of us have some of that in our past - but from a storytelling aspect. The heartbreaking tales are well told, and I appreciate them as much as I do a sweet and fluffy ending as long as it makes sense for the story and the characters. But when you use the same thing over again you dilute the whole of the experience, and it really does seem to fall biased to one side. Some guys have expressed that the simple romances offered by Cassandra and Josephine are boring, so it's apparent they would like to see a bit more drama and tragedy. I don't blame them. If all romances for women were boring and bland, I'd be just as much speaking up to add tension and drama. There's a balance to be made there, and that's all this thread was made to ask for.

 

I will say this in regard to Solas: the heartbreak and sadness fit the character and worked exactly as intended, and is unfortunate only in that it is "similar" to Blackwall's tale. Since Solas was added later, and that sort of story made sense for both characters, it did seem we had a double-dose of it this time around. On the other hand, had Solas and Cullen not been added, we would have had a choice between a liar who some find acted in a skeevy manner, and someone who a lot of people were uncomfortable with either due to appearance or the BDSM themes. Not... the best offering or interpretations for the ladies to have. Meanwhile the guys got two relatively sweet tales with their romance interests. They are characters first, love stories second, but in the end a pattern is a pattern.

 

All of this but especially the bolded.

 

I'm certainly not coming from this from a rl relationship angle and really playing armchair psychologist on the internet is pretty absurd to begin with.

[EvilChani]

Please, if there must be multiple heartbreaking romances in a given BioWare game, spread the heartbreak around.  Do not give these options only to female characters.

 

I appreciate tragedy and heartbreak... sometimes.  However, this has become a routine feature for BioWare games: if you happen to be playing a straight woman character, you have a very high chance of your character's love interest (if you pursue one) cheating, breaking up with you, leaving, or being deeply in love with someone else (usually a dead wife).

 

Most of us don't like heartbreak THAT much.  I don't care if the player is a man or a woman or a moose.  Heartbreak has its place, but if it were fun we wouldn't call it heartbreak.

 

Yes, it happens in the real world all the time.  Yes, it's okay (and even good) on occasion, even every other game, or every three games, and can make for an awesome story.  But please, spread that heartbreak around, and stop piling it all on the romance options for lady characters, and having it happen (often on more than one character) in every. single. game.

 

No, I'm not saying give the heartbreak to the LGBT community.  Goodness knows, they get enough of the heartbreak in pretty much every other medium.  But how about breaking the straight guys' hearts instead now and then, if you really want tragedy?  Men and women are equally capable of handling tragedy, so you would think that tragedy would be equally distributed.  It isn't.

 

Devoted fans (most of them women) have brought this up and brought this up, repeatedly, in the fan threads of our favorite characters who dumped us, cheated on us, died, etc.  It appears no one is listening, or that no one is taking us seriously.  So I feel that a thread should garner some attention to the problem, and hopefully reduce the number of heartbroken lady protagonists (and their players) out there.

 

Not all of us want Cullen or Kaidan types, and Cullen/Kaidan types are not the only kind of love interest that can both be interesting and end well.

 

Sometimes heartbreak and drama are awesome.  But, sometimes, plain old fluff is nice where the romances are concerned.  And sometimes, interesting plots and seeming inevitable failure is good, if it turns right around and ends well anyway.  Thedas in particular is a dark world, and I get that.  But can we not have a ray of hope at least in the form of a happy romance, so that our characters at least need not wander the ruined world alone after the story ends?

 

For those of you who don't understand what I am talking about, some instances of this in various BioWare games:

 

• Jacob, ME2 - Cheats in ME3 (inevitable)
• Thane, ME2 - Dies in ME3 (inevitable)
• Alistair, DA:O - Can Die, WILL Dump Non-Human or Mage if Made King, Can Cheat (Leliana, Morrigan).  Being his mistress is presented as a positive solution, though many people would find that unacceptable for a variety of reasons.  Of all of them, his involves the most choice, which makes it seem the least horrible--until you realize, the best option for Ferelden to rule is with him as king (if you are female) and either the Warden (if human noble) or Anora at his side.  Also if you don't do the Dark Ritual and take him with you to the final battle, his death is inevitable and cannot be interrupted by a female Warden who romanced him--also highly problematic.
• Morrigan, DA:O - Male only.  She leaves at the end.  This is fixed, though, via a DLC where the Warden can go rejoin her.
• Anders, DA2 - Both Genders.  Betrays Hawke - this is inevitable since it's part of the main plot. (Note, he's loyal if you let him live... and despite doing something ABSOLUTELY horrible, he gets a happy-ish ending?)
• Blackwall, DA:I - He lies about who he is, sleeps with the Inquisitor before the reveal (which is Not Okay), and if romanced, disappears from Skyhold post-game.  He is still available in-party, but he abandons his lover.
• Solas, DA:I - Breaks up with the Inquisitor immediately after giving the romance achievement and potentially stripping her of a vital part of her identity.  Seems to promise an explanation in some dialogue, but then vanishes without a trace.  Yes, it's for Major Plot Reasons, but there is basically no real closure.  Heartbreak, all around.

And I get that in DA2, any romance could potentially turn against you, based on your choices.  I list Anders only because it's inevitable.  Alistair hurting the PC is not inevitable, but it's ridiculously likely to happen given how many options there are to have everything go poorly for the Warden in that relationship--and I include him because of that and because without the Dark Ritual, you can't take him with you without him sacrificing himself without your say-so.  And then you get an achievement saying you told him to, even when you didn't.  Salt in the wound.

 

You'll notice there are only two characters men can romance that I've thought of on that list.  I'm sure I'm missing others for ladies, and maybe there's another tragic romance or two for guys that I'm missing.  Of the ones I can think of, though, only one is romanceable to straight men.  It's a trend geared toward female characters, and I repeat, not everyone likes that or wants it.

 

I'm not yelling "SEXISM" about it.  I am not sure why things skew this way.  Maybe the people who enjoy playing female characters at the BioWare offices all adore a good tragedy.  But I'm pretty sure, from the way conversations have gone on this point, that the majority of the fans, in fact, do not enjoy tragedy, or at least not the amount of tragedy that we are actually given for the female protagonists.

 

So please, please cut back on the number of heartbreak characters we get.  I'm not asking for them to all be taken away.  Sometimes, I WANT a good tragedy story; tragedy can be beautiful.  But I don't want half of my characters' options (or more) to lead to inevitable heartbreak.  There doesn't need to be one in every game--or if there is, sometimes, the male characters should get the heartbreak option.

 

If you agree or are in support of this request, please post.  I want BioWare to pay some attention to this and spread the heartbreak around!  (I'd say they should reduce it overall, if they can get over their fan tears addiction, but spreading it around works nicely--they get their fan tears, and female protagonists everywhere can have a reprieve.)

 

I only have a few additions to this, which are my own personal opinions on the matter...

 

I don't appreciate heartbreak and/or tragedy at all in my games. I swallowed the Cousland parents being killed off in DA:O, but didn't like it. I clicked as quickly as I could through the horrible Amell mother's death because I could not stomach it. In ME3, I could've taken Mordin's death, had it been the only one, but the writers went too far with the killing and us not being able to do anything about it. What I am most bitter about, however, is Thane's death. They teased us with the possibility of a cure, then gave him the lamest, most ridiculous death ever, stuck him in the one frigging place he said he never wanted to be, and shoved the "I'm ready to die" BS down our throats after, in ME2, he told Shepard (in her bedroom) that he didn't want to die. If they had allowed me to save him, I might have even been able to ignore the sickeningly stupid god brat and "pick a color" ending they shoved down our throats, but there was too much misery and tears in the game to make any of it palatable for me.

 

It pisses me off, and BioWare does, as you've pointed out, has a penchant for screwing straight females in the relationship department. Like you, Kaidan did not appeal to me, though I didn't realize it until after I had gotten stuck in a relationship with him. When he starts quoting regs after you just banged him, I wanted to smash his face in with a brick. Then, in ME2, when he tells you he wishes you had died instead of Cerberus saving you, I was done. Worst romance choice ever. Then he had the nerve, in ME3, to offer to "forgive" me for falling for Thane. If it had been a choice, I'd have stabbed him to death in his hospital bed. I truly despise his character.

 

That said, I disagree on Cullen being the Kaidan of this game. Blackwall has that same annoyingly self-righteous Kaidan had. If anything, Cullen is the Garrus of the game...he even talks about calibrating the trebuchets, lol. Though I hated him in previous games, Cullen is actually pretty cool. Blackwall, on the other hand, is kind of a douche and totally Kaidan-like.

 

Anyway, the bottom line is that I wish BioWare would give us better romance choices and the opportunity for a happy ending with all of the choices. If they want to make it difficult, fine--I would have happily let a city burn to save Thane in ME3, the hell with the consequences--but at least give us a chance. And, for God's sake, stop making the ridiculously fun choices (like IB and Zevran) always be man-whores who screw anything with a hole. That sterotype is as bad as what they did with Jacob not being able to keep it in his pants for a few months while Shepard is locked away.

[phaonica]

I'm personally agreeing with what the OP says not because of negative relationship experiences - though I'm sure many of us have some of that in our past - but from a storytelling aspect. The heartbreaking tales are well told, and I appreciate them as much as I do a sweet and fluffy ending as long as it makes sense for the story and the characters. But when you use the same thing over again you dilute the whole of the experience, and it really does seem to fall biased to one side. Some guys have expressed that the simple romances offered by Cassandra and Josephine are boring, so it's apparent they would like to see a bit more drama and tragedy. I don't blame them. If all romances for women were boring and bland, I'd be just as much speaking up to add tension and drama. There's a balance to be made there, and that's all this thread was made to ask for.

Are the Cassandra and Josephine romances being criticized for having a boring *middle* or are they criticized for not having a boring happy *ending*, because there is a difference. In the same way that you are not asking for no drama, just a happy ending (if I understand correctly) that's what those guys might be asking for as well. If drama and tragedy are so great, why do you think (If I understand you correctly) that the Solas romance would be better off without it? Or do you think that the Solas romance would be perfect the way it is if only the Cassandra or Josephine romances would also have ended in an unavoidable breakup?

[phaonica]

I only have a few additions to this, which are my own personal opinions on the matter...
 
I don't appreciate heartbreak and/or tragedy at all in my games. I swallowed the Cousland parents being killed off in DA:O, but didn't like it. I clicked as quickly as I could through the horrible Amell mother's death because I could not stomach it. In ME3, I could've taken Mordin's death, had it been the only one, but the writers went too far with the killing and us not being able to do anything about it. What I am most bitter about, however, is Thane's death. They teased us with the possibility of a cure, then gave him the lamest, most ridiculous death ever, stuck him in the one frigging place he said he never wanted to be, and shoved the "I'm ready to die" BS down our throats after, in ME2, he told Shepard (in her bedroom) that he didn't want to die. If they had allowed me to save him, I might have even been able to ignore the sickeningly stupid god brat and "pick a color" ending they shoved down our throats, but there was too much misery and tears in the game to make any of it palatable for me.
 
It pisses me off, and BioWare does, as you've pointed out, has a penchant for screwing straight females in the relationship department. Like you, Kaidan did not appeal to me, though I didn't realize it until after I had gotten stuck in a relationship with him. When he starts quoting regs after you just banged him, I wanted to smash his face in with a brick. Then, in ME2, when he tells you he wishes you had died instead of Cerberus saving you, I was done. Worst romance choice ever. Then he had the nerve, in ME3, to offer to "forgive" me for falling for Thane. If it had been a choice, I'd have stabbed him to death in his hospital bed. I truly despise his character.
 
That said, I disagree on Cullen being the Kaidan of this game. Blackwall has that same annoyingly self-righteous Kaidan had. If anything, Cullen is the Garrus of the game...he even talks about calibrating the trebuchets, lol. Though I hated him in previous games, Cullen is actually pretty cool. Blackwall, on the other hand, is kind of a douche and totally Kaidan-like.
 
Anyway, the bottom line is that I wish BioWare would give us better romance choices and the opportunity for a happy ending with all of the choices. If they want to make it difficult, fine--I would have happily let a city burn to save Thane in ME3, the hell with the consequences--but at least give us a chance. And, for God's sake, stop making the ridiculously fun choices (like IB and Zevran) always be man-whores who screw anything with a hole. That sterotype is as bad as what they did with Jacob not being able to keep it in his pants for a few months while Shepard is locked away.

It sounds like you hate these games. Why do you keep playing them?  

[Uirebhiril]

Are the Cassandra and Josephine romances being criticized for having a boring *middle* or are they criticized for not having a boring happy *ending*, because there is a difference. In the same way that you are not asking for no drama, just a happy ending (if I understand correctly) that's what those guys might be asking for as well. If drama and tragedy are so great, why do you think (If I understand you correctly) that the Solas romance would be better off without it? Or do you think that the Solas romance would be perfect the way it is if only the Cassandra or Josephine romances would also have ended in an unavoidable breakup?

 

I'm not really asking for no drama or a happy ending. I'm just agreeing with the OP that a large number of love interests for females have a negative/tragic/dramatic outcome. I know a lot of that is based on the character and their overall story, but it's just a bit odd how all the bad stuff is on the male companions.

 

Since there are only two females for guys to romance in the game, making, say, Josephine call it off because she was going to no-questions-asked marry the nobleman to help her family probably wouldn't have worked out so well. But if it had worked out such that it could have been that way? That no matter what choices you made or how far the romance was, that she would leave to fulfill her family's wishes? I don't want to say it makes it "fair" because that is not how this should work, but it does make it shared. Does that make sense?

 

Solas is a character that, by his nature, fits for the tragic heartbreak. Whatever happens with it, his romance was exactly as it needed to be and I'm not one that is sitting on the "heartbroken" bandwagon. I got a lump in my throat because of the emotion of the scene and not because I (or my character) will cry for or pine over him to our ruin. With his romance I do want resolution or closure, but not for it to have been a happy ending in DAI. It wouldn't have fit. Solas has to be who he has to be. Same with Blackwall or Cullen or Iron Bull. But... the numbers could be taken into consideration for future stories. I think that is ultimately what this thread was posted for.

[EvilChani]

It sounds like you hate these games. Why do you keep playing them?

 

I love it when people who disagree with something you've said hop on the "why do you play the game?" BS instead of addressing your concerns...

 

Where, praytell, did I say I hate the games? With the exception of ME3, I love all the games I mentioned, and I don't play ME3 at all anymore. I never finished it. I got up to the big deal before the end, quit, and have never touched it since. I am, however, considering playing ME3 on PC with mods I've found, one that allows you to save Thane and one that fixes the moronic ending of the game. I think they'd actually make the game playable and, dare I say it, enjoyable for me. That won't change the fact that I find Kaidan to be a dick or the fact that, without the mods, I can't stomach ME3 at all, but at least I'd have a game that doesn't ruin the other two for me (both of which I loved and replayed at least 20-25 times each). I also loved DA:O and DA2, and have played them even more than I played ME1 and ME2, despite the few parts that irritated me (killing off the parents was unnecessary, IMO, but I accepted it).

 

So yeah, I don't know where you get this crap about me hating the "games". When someone points out flaws, or things they don't like about something, that doesn't mean they "hate" it, it means there is room for improvement. I don't have to believe BioWare shits sunshine and lollipops to appreciate the good games they have given us, I don't have to think every game is absolutely perfect because I enjoyed it, and I don't have to be declared a hater just because I have the unmitigated gall to point out problems and expect them to be addressed in the future. If I didn't give a damn, and had given up, I simply wouldn't purchase any BioWare games at all (I say "any" because I refuse to ever spend another dime on an ME game) and wouldn't bother posting here.

[phaonica]

I love it when people who disagree with something you've said hop on the "why do you play the game?" BS instead of addressing your concerns...

 

Where, praytell, did I say I hate the games? With the exception of ME3, I love all the games I mentioned, and I don't play ME3 at all anymore. I never finished it. I got up to the big deal before the end, quit, and have never touched it since. I am, however, considering playing ME3 on PC with mods I've found, one that allows you to save Thane and one that fixes the moronic ending of the game. I think they'd actually make the game playable and, dare I say it, enjoyable for me. That won't change the fact that I find Kaidan to be a dick or the fact that, without the mods, I can't stomach ME3 at all, but at least I'd have a game that doesn't ruin the other two for me (both of which I loved and replayed at least 20-25 times each). I also loved DA:O and DA2, and have played them even more than I played ME1 and ME2, despite the few parts that irritated me (killing off the parents was unnecessary, IMO, but I accepted it).

 

So yeah, I don't know where you get this crap about me hating the "games". When someone points out flaws, or things they don't like about something, that doesn't mean they "hate" it, it means there is room for improvement. I don't have to believe BioWare shits sunshine and lollipops to appreciate the good games they have given us, I don't have to think every game is absolutely perfect because I enjoyed it, and I don't have to be declared a hater just because I have the unmitigated gall to point out problems and expect them to be addressed in the future. If I didn't give a damn, and had given up, I simply wouldn't purchase any BioWare games at all (I say "any" because I refuse to ever spend another dime on an ME game) and wouldn't bother posting here.

 

Sorry, you just only mentioned one or two romance options that you liked, so I wondered what about the games did appeal to you, given that you seemed to be disappointed by the majority of the romances.

[wildannie]

I'm not really asking for no drama or a happy ending. I'm just agreeing with the OP that a large number of love interests for females have a negative/tragic/dramatic outcome. I know a lot of that is based on the character and their overall story, but it's just a bit odd how all the bad stuff is on the male companions.

 

Since there are only two females for guys to romance in the game, making, say, Josephine call it off because she was going to no-questions-asked marry the nobleman to help her family probably wouldn't have worked out so well. But if it had worked out such that it could have been that way? That no matter what choices you made or how far the romance was, that she would leave to fulfill her family's wishes? I don't want to say it makes it "fair" because that is not how this should work, but it does make it shared. Does that make sense?

 

Solas is a character that, by his nature, fits for the tragic heartbreak. Whatever happens with it, his romance was exactly as it needed to be and I'm not one that is sitting on the "heartbroken" bandwagon. I got a lump in my throat because of the emotion of the scene and not because I (or my character) will cry for or pine over him to our ruin. With his romance I do want resolution or closure, but not for it to have been a happy ending in DAI. It wouldn't have fit. Solas has to be who he has to be. Same with Blackwall or Cullen or Iron Bull. But... the numbers could be taken into consideration for future stories. I think that is ultimately what this thread was posted for.

I 100% agree with the bolded part, much as I hate cliffhangers, I can't imagine how any kind of happy ending within DAI as it stands could have possibly worked, and I do think it was abolutely beautifully done.  I do however really need a resolution in DLC to make my DAI experience a positive one overall. If it all gets ignored, glossed over or railroaded its going to tarnish the overall experience for me, similar to how ME3 tarnished ME & ME2 for me - haven't been able to play either of them since then.  I really want to trust that they are going to do right by us, giving closure that gives some agency on outcome, but I just can't ignore that BW have failed to come through for us in the past and the uncertainty over whether we can expect a decent resolution is driving me nuts!  

[EvilChani]

Sorry, you just only mentioned one or two romance options that you liked, so I wondered what about the games did appeal to you, given that you seemed to be disappointed by the majority of the romances.

 

No problem. This thread seemed to be pointing out the problems with the romance options for females, so I went with it.

 

Honestly, the best romance ever was Alistair/Warden, and it had a great path since my Warden was a Cousland and could marry Alistair. The Cullen/Inquisitor romance, thus far, is in second place. I wish there were more interactions with him, and perhaps a way to end his problem with lyrium, but in general, I think it was very well done. The Garrus/Shepard romance was actually good, but my default Shepard was drawn to Thane too much...Garrus was her bro.

 

I loved the Thane romance in ME2, but they completely ruined it with ME3, so I had to head canon it. I would've preferred them leave it open-ended to the garbage ending they gave Thane in the game. My first choice is always a happy ending (with a guy I don't want to strangle with his own entrails), but I can live with open-ended, kinda like they've done with King Alistair/Queen Warden...if they had killed the Warden or Alistair (or Hawke/Fenris), I'd have hated this game and would not have played it.

[phaonica]

I'm not really asking for no drama or a happy ending. I'm just agreeing with the OP that a large number of love interests for females have a negative/tragic/dramatic outcome. I know a lot of that is based on the character and their overall story, but it's just a bit odd how all the bad stuff is on the male companions.

Since there are only two females for guys to romance in the game, making, say, Josephine call it off because she was going to no-questions-asked marry the nobleman to help her family probably wouldn't have worked out so well. But if it had worked out such that it could have been that way? That no matter what choices you made or how far the romance was, that she would leave to fulfill her family's wishes? I don't want to say it makes it "fair" because that is not how this should work, but it does make it shared. Does that make sense?
 
Solas is a character that, by his nature, fits for the tragic heartbreak. Whatever happens with it, his romance was exactly as it needed to be and I'm not one that is sitting on the "heartbroken" bandwagon. I got a lump in my throat because of the emotion of the scene and not because I (or my character) will cry for or pine over him to our ruin. With his romance I do want resolution or closure, but not for it to have been a happy ending in DAI. It wouldn't have fit. Solas has to be who he has to be. Same with Blackwall or Cullen or Iron Bull. But... the numbers could be taken into consideration for future stories. I think that is ultimately what this thread was posted for.

In practice, how would the writers go about doing this? You say it's not "fair," but it's "shared" which seems to me to be saying that it's perfectly okay to contrive a tragedy or even an entire character concept centered around a romance in order to create a tragedy for the sake of balance.

[Uirebhiril]

In practice, how would the writers go about doing this? You say it's not "fair," but it's "shared" which seems to me to be saying that it's perfectly okay to contrive a tragedy or even an entire character concept centered around a romance in order to create a tragedy for the sake of balance.

 

This is why I said it shouldn't work that way. You can't force things on a character just to make something change in a story unless it would actually work with the character and make sense. It's apparent when something like that is done and the outcome is hardly ever good. But a character in its conceptual form can still have ideas thrown at it and that can always lead to something that will work. The characters we have so far are who they are, and the potential there is limited. But for future stories? Anything can go, and it doesn't have to be forced or contrived.

 

I'm not going to lay suggestions for what the writers should do, because they know their job and the way ideas work to reach an end goal will be different for any writer. I think it's enough to just speak up and suggest that things are taken into consideration. Isn't that what feedback is about? Take it and use it, or laugh and discard it. It was still something someone felt important enough to make a post about and shouldn't be dismissed entirely, most especially when there is a point behind the words.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I hate this whole "My side suffers, so others should experience suffering too so it is even" mindset. I agree with there should be less heartbreak for straight females, but disagree with getting that less by spreading it around. 

[snackrat]

The feels I have for the person who made this confession:

 

...that person is in for a very depressing surprise.

[Uirebhiril]

I hate this whole "My side suffers, so others should experience suffering too so it is even" mindset. I agree with there should be less heartbreak for straight females, but disagree with getting that less by spreading it around. 

 

It's BioWare. There WILL be heartbreak whether we like it or not. It's good for them that we usually like how they tell a tragic tale. Being able to experience that with different characters would just, you know. Be nice now and then. No one is saying make others suffer. I play male characters as well as females, so a traitorous female character is just as likely to get me there, and I'd be fine with that. It would be a new and refreshing experience, at the very least.

[Ryzaki]

The feels I have for the person who made this confession:

 

...that person is in for a very depressing surprise.

 

It's wrong how much I lmao at that.

 

Poor dear should've learned by now.

[Andraste_Reborn]

I hate this whole "My side suffers, so others should experience suffering too so it is even" mindset. I agree with there should be less heartbreak for straight females, but disagree with getting that less by spreading it around. 

 

Not everyone thinks of heartbreak romances as punishment, though.

 

I like them, for the most part. The only ones on the list I have personal problems with are Jacob and Thane. With Jacob, there was no hint that he'd turn into a cheating POS within six months of you going to jail. I was fine with Thane dying - it's not like the player wasn't warned - but the lack of romance relativity prior to Citadel was terrible. Meanwhile, I enjoyed the game where Alistair broke up with my dwarf Warden at the Landsmeet and she went off to do the Ultimate Sacrifice, and the Blackwall romance is one of my favourites in BioWare history. Haven't got to Solas yet, but I'm looking forward to it.

 

I think the problem here is that BioWare keep serving female PCs burning hot vindaloo and male PCs butter chicken. Some people like vindaloo, but there should be a broader range of menu options available - and maybe people would like something with more chilli for their male PCs as well. I know I loved playing the Morrigan romance as a tragedy with my male Dalish elf.

[Maverick827]

No one is saying make others suffer.

 

From the OP:

 

 

 

But please, spread that heartbreak around

 

 

But how about breaking the straight guys' hearts instead now and then

[9TailsFox]

Are the Cassandra and Josephine romances being criticized for having a boring *middle* or are they criticized for not having a boring happy *ending*, because there is a difference. In the same way that you are not asking for no drama, just a happy ending (if I understand correctly) that's what those guys might be asking for as well. If drama and tragedy are so great, why do you think (If I understand you correctly) that the Solas romance would be better off without it? Or do you think that the Solas romance would be perfect the way it is if only the Cassandra or Josephine romances would also have ended in an unavoidable breakup?

Personally. For me best romance is Morrigan( I just like Ice queen romance) , Alistair second close. Solas romance is perfect it's very similar as Morrigan, Solas loves Inquisitor but still leaves after battle. I romanced Josephine worst romance "Disney romance written for 5-8 year kids, and worst very short, not even sad ending wouldn't make it better" I regret not romancing Cass. Solas romance is best in Inquisition because Solas is main character in story same as Morrigan in DA:O.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's BioWare. There WILL be heartbreak whether we like it or not. It's good for them that we usually like how they tell a tragic tale. Being able to experience that with different characters would just, you know. Be nice now and then. No one is saying make others suffer. I play male characters as well as females, so a traitorous female character is just as likely to get me there, and I'd be fine with that. It would be a new and refreshing experience, at the very least.

I think the problem here is that BioWare keep serving female PCs burning hot vindaloo and male PCs butter chicken. Some people like vindaloo, but there should be a broader range of menu options available - and maybe people would like something with more chilli for their male PCs as well. I know I loved playing the Morrigan romance as a tragedy with my male Dalish elf.

Not really. There have been a few traitorous female LIs in Bioware games as well. Bastila Shan becomes the main bad guy's apprentice and tries to kill you, Morrigan uses you the entire time, Ashley Williams disavows you, Isabela does nothing but lie to you, etc. You get to patch things up with most of them, but the same goes with the male LIs.

[Brass_Buckles]

From the OP:

 

I didn't tell them "OMG I WANT EVERYONE TO SUFFER," or "OMG I WANT MEN TO SUFFER AND HURT."  I pointed out in the OP as well that I do enjoy these kinds of stories, OCCASIONALLY, but I feel that they have been overly skewed toward male LIs (mostly those only romanceable by female characters).  I also pointed out that some men also enjoy these stories.

 

Spreading the heartbreak around would mean that instead of one group getting two heartbreakers, each group would only get one (LGBT folks would most likely be left out of it since they get all the heartbreak they could hope for in movies, books, etc. geared toward them to the degree that they kind of need something positive).

 

And, if you think it's just "I WANT TO HURT MEN" is what I'm saying?  Well, I don't (and I pointed out that it would also be acceptable to simply have fewer heartbreakers in general), but consider that if you are so dead set against getting more heartbreak for the guys... How do you think the people who play straight female characters feel, when we have a 50/50 chance or better of having an in-game romance end horribly or contain content that is basically Not Okay?  So as another poster put it earlier, if the reasoning behind the numbers skewing toward the female LI side of things is because the devs/writers don't think players of straight males would take it well, then perhaps they should consider that those who play straight women also might, for the most part, not enjoy this content.

 

Saying I'm out to hurt men just because I want the numbers to skew more evenly in the future, or that I want more "heartbreaker romance stories" to go toward the LIs for males so that there is balance, is just twisting my words into something that I never, ever meant.

[Maverick827]

I didn't tell them "OMG I WANT EVERYONE TO SUFFER," or "OMG I WANT MEN TO SUFFER AND HURT."  I pointed out in the OP as well that I do enjoy these kinds of stories, OCCASIONALLY, but I feel that they have been overly skewed toward male LIs (mostly those only romanceable by female characters).  I also pointed out that some men also enjoy these stories.

 

Spreading the heartbreak around would mean that instead of one group getting two heartbreakers, each group would only get one (LGBT folks would most likely be left out of it since they get all the heartbreak they could hope for in movies, books, etc. geared toward them to the degree that they kind of need something positive).

 

And, if you think it's just "I WANT TO HURT MEN" is what I'm saying?  Well, I don't (and I pointed out that it would also be acceptable to simply have fewer heartbreakers in general), but consider that if you are so dead set against getting more heartbreak for the guys... How do you think the people who play straight female characters feel, when we have a 50/50 chance or better of having an in-game romance end horribly or contain content that is basically Not Okay?  So as another poster put it earlier, if the reasoning behind the numbers skewing toward the female LI side of things is because the devs/writers don't think players of straight males would take it well, then perhaps they should consider that those who play straight women also might, for the most part, not enjoy this content.

 

Saying I'm out to hurt men just because I want the numbers to skew more evenly in the future, or that I want more "heartbreaker romance stories" to go toward the LIs for males so that there is balance, is just twisting my words into something that I never, ever meant.

 

I never said you were out to hurt men, because I don't believe that.  I just disagreed that no one said to "make others suffer," because that has been all over this entire 35-page thrad.  "Spreading it around" is, indeed, "making others suffer" if you're considering heartbreak romances "suffering," which it is how it's being used in this context.

 

I don't do the romances in these games for the most part.  The only romance I ever really enjoyed was Liara from Mass Effect, and mostly because it was just tied into the story so much.  It wouldn't affect me if every male romance option for every BioWare game from now until BioWare stopped making games was full of all the heartbreak in the world.

 

I also disagree that the LGBT community shouldn't get heartbreak.  I think every romance should be able to end in happiness or heartbreak, depending on how the player wants it.  Obviously there wouldn't be a dialog option with "HAPPY" and "HEARTBREAK" options when speaking with your LI at the end of the game, but using things like hardening/not hardening, approval/disapproval, etc., I believe the player should be able to craft every outcome.  Not the character, mind you; your character shouldn't have power over the world and everyone in it.  But through the character, the player should as much as the developers can make it.

[Brass_Buckles]

I hate this whole "My side suffers, so others should experience suffering too so it is even" mindset. I agree with there should be less heartbreak for straight females, but disagree with getting that less by spreading it around. 

 

Some of the people on here who play male characters in this thread have pointed out they would actually like more heartbreaker type characters to romance, since it would add interest to their playthrough.  It isn't about making them suffer, not at all.  Really it's more about noticing a trend, wondering why that trend exists, and suggesting that the numbers be balanced out rather than skewed toward the straight female characters' LIs side of things.  You know, like saying, "Okay, I noticed a problem, and I think you guys need to take a look at it.  Maybe this could be done more fairly in the future."

 

Spreading the heartbreak around means that we get half as much and guys get something they don't currently have.  It's not malicious to want things to be treated more fairly in the future.  Men enjoy their drama, too.  Just read some of the posts from a few who have given their opinions here.  Of course some people want no heartbreak in the romances at all, and, well, I can understand that from everyone--Thedas is a dark world, and maybe a bit of fluff-style romance makes it more bearable--or, maybe you just want to end the game on as happy a note as possible all around.  But then again, it's also a world about tough choices.

 

My opinion is and shall remain that these things should rely more heavily upon our choices; unless, like in the case of Solas, the story ABSOLUTELY calls for the romance to end badly, I'd prefer we could act to prevent the heartbreak.  Then, those who want a sad romance can have one.  Good example?  The LIs for men often have the potential to be heartbreaking, but it's not inevitable like many of the ones for women.