1109 réponses à ce sujet

[TevinterSupremacist]

I'm sure they can ask for themselves, never said they couldn't. That doesn't mean I can't also give my opinion on what will make the game better for everyone. They are free to disagree with me if they want.

 

I think I have a lot more faith in the writing team than you do. ASKING for Bioware to consider writing something different, is not going to lead to them enforcing implied quotas. 

 

I'm willing to bet money that Bioware has not written more tragic romances for women than men on purpose. They likely haven't even noticed. But there has been that trend. Making Bioware aware of something they have done subconsciously gives them the opportunity to consider whether that's something they intended. If so, it's their choice if they want to change it or not. But they can't make that choice if they're not aware of it.

No, it doesn't mean you can't give your opinion on what you think PEOPLE OTHER THAN YOU would enjoy based on YOUR OWN THOUGHTS even though THEY CAN DO IT THEMSELVES. It just means that doing so would be patronising and unnecessary.

 

As for the rest of your post, we just disagree. I explained you why such arguments even if they don't make the company enforce quotas, can create quota-related implications. You didn't even try to deny that. I fear that such implications could (even if only subconsciously) make writers deviate from their original inspirations for ballance's sake.

[Ryzaki]

To be fair, I would say "dogpiling all their tragedy on PCs who prefer males" since the gay male romances end in tragedy as often as the straight female romances do, but yeah. Straight female or gay male, if your protagonist loves a man, it's safe to say that it's going to end in tears.

 

Really? I didn't think Zev, Fenris, Sky (*grumble*), IB or Dorian ended in tragedy? The most drama laden is Fenris but he eventually comes back and there's no inevitable betrayal with him.

[Ryzaki]

That's actually hard to understand. It is a weird way of thinking. I never cared what the straight female might get, ( as long as the content is the same quality ) why would I ? If some things bother me with the female romances for males, I don't see the need to point out female straight gamers who have done nothing to me, who aren't even concerned by my complaints. I'm just going to complain to bioware to give me something else. If female straight gamers are happy with their romances, it's their business, why would I ask to affect their content because I am unhappy with mine ? ( Don't get me wrong, I do want heartbreak romances for straight males, but on the principle, I can't help but roll my eyes. Boooooooh straight males got what I want, give them what I got at least, I want the same, and I should be happier at least ) 

 

Currently, I am annoyed with the lack of variety for male straight gamers, and it never came to my mind to look at what the female straight gamers got to compare things. I am just going to give my feedback to Bioware when it will be time to do it. Just " please Bioware give us to straight males variety next time  "  and that's it. 

 

There is a trend with female romances ? Why not then, " please Bioware be careful, there is a trend, and here why ? "  Why it has to be about how we are victims and straight males got nothing ? 

 

This is pretty much what I read in this thread sometimes, while I admit that some posters fortunately express better what this thread is asking and what is the issue. 

 

______

 

Now, I don't get the reactions about heartbreak romances and how it should mean " make them suffer ", It's a different story telling that some might like or not. As long as there is variety in the game ( whether for straight males or straight females ) , again, I don't see the issue. 

 

As for DA:I, straight females got two sweet romances like every demographic in the end. They have four romances, that's quite a lot in one game, it shouldn't be expected to have the same things. 

 

It's the misery loves company mindset. Not sure what's hard to understand about that. If the drama BS was more balanced I certainly wouldn't be thinking "why do I get all this crap and they get multiple ways to avoid it when they finally get it at all."

 

And you couldn't make another thread for that...why exactly?

 

But that's just it...we tend to be the ones getting this.

 

We only got two sweet romances because we got twice as many as everyone else. That alone says it all. Everyone else gets 2 sweet romances no extra required. But since we get the BS options we had to get extra just to get equal (sweet options obviously) with everyone else! Our default options were freaking Blackwall and Bull. THOSE WERE OUR DEFAULTS.

[Abyss108]

No, it doesn't mean you can't give your opinion on what you think PEOPLE OTHER THAN YOU would enjoy based on YOUR OWN THOUGHTS even though THEY CAN DO IT THEMSELVES. It just means that doing so would be patronising and unnecessary.

 

As for the rest of your post, we just disagree. I explained you why such arguments even if they don't make the company enforce quotas, can create quota-related implications. You didn't even try to deny that. I fear that such implications could (even if only subconsciously) make writers deviate from their original inspirations for ballance's sake.

 

Yes, I did deny that. I said I had more faith in Bioware than to think a few posts on a forum was going to cause them to change their plans unless they wanted it too.

 

What makes you think their original inspiration is better than the inspiration they would get if they spent a few more minutes thinking about writing something different?

 

It seems like you think writing can never be criticised. Because if we criticise something, they might consider doing something differently, and that wouldn't be their first inspiration. Is that what you're saying? 

[TevinterSupremacist]

Yes, I did deny that. I said I had more faith in Bioware than to think a few posts on a forum was going to cause them to change their plans unless they wanted it too.

 

What makes you think their original inspiration is better than the inspiration they would get if they spent a few more minutes thinking about writing something different?

 

It seems like you think writing can never be criticised. Because if we criticise something, they might consider doing something differently, and that wouldn't be their first inspiration. Is that what you're saying? 

"That" was refering to the creation of quota-based implications, not forcing bioware to change their plans. Asking for a more ballanced distribution of [x] has quota implications. Inherently. I didn't see you trying to deny that, that's what I meant. You're free to try though.

 

It depends on why the shift was made from original inspiration to something different. Ballance for the sake of ballance has nothing to offer. The same goes for ''something new, simply for the sake of making something new".

 

It depends on the content of the critique. Lack of ballance isn't a worthy one.

[Abyss108]

"That" was refering to the creation of quota-based implications, not forcing bioware to change their plans. Asking for a more ballanced distribution of [x] has quota implications. Inherently. I didn't see you trying to deny that, that's what I meant. You're free to try though.

 

It depends on why the shift was made from original inspiration to something different. Ballance for the sake of ballance has nothing to offer. The same goes for ''something new, simply for the sake of making something new".

 

It depends on the content of the critique. Lack of ballance isn't a worthy one.

 

That's what I was referring to as well. Asking Bioware to consider more closely what they write isn't implying a quota. It's asking them to consider what they write. If they are writing the same thing they wrote 5 times before they might think "oh gee, I totally didn't mean to write the same plot 5 times in a row, I'll think of something new!", or they might think "actually, those 5 similar plots have some pretty key differences, and even if this new one has some things in common, I think it adds a lot to the story and is important to use it!". Or there are a billion other things they could think. But if we don't point the trend, they would never think any of those things because they wouldn't realize.

 

I'd argue ballance can have a certain amount of merit. If Bioware got very inspired for some content that was only applicable to female characters, and gave them significant extra content, and then did that in 90% of their games, I think the men who would complain that they were paying the same price for much less content would have a very good point.  

[wildannie]

Some people do!

Which is why a nice mix of different things is the best!

Orrrrrrr, really difficult choices giving the best of both worlds - say no to railroading 

[TevinterSupremacist]

That's what I was referring to as well. Asking Bioware to consider more closely what they write isn't implying a quota. It's asking them to consider what they write. If they are writing the same thing they wrote 5 times before they might think "oh gee, I totally didn't mean to write the same plot 5 times in a row, I'll think of something new!", or they might think "actually, those 5 similar plots have some pretty key differences, and even if this new one has some things in common, I think it adds a lot to the story and is important to use it!". Or there are a billion other things they could think. But if we don't point the trend, they would never think any of those things because they wouldn't realize.

 

I'd argue ballance can have a certain amount of merit. If Bioware got very inspired for some content that was only applicable to female characters, and gave them significant extra content, and then did that in 90% of their games, I think the men who would complain that they were paying the same price for much less content would have a very good point.  

Asking bioware to consider more closely what they write isn't implying a quota. Also , it isn't relevant to this thread, because we're not talking about asking bioware to consider what they write in general, but in regard to the distribution of drama in romances among men and women. And this has quota-related vibe.

 

Ballance in the content of narrative tropes and ballance in the quantity of available content are two different things. If we were refering to the latter, you'd have a point, we are however discussing the former. In which case, ballance has no merit.

[Abyss108]

Asking bioware to consider more closely what they write isn't implying a quota. Also , it isn't relevant to this thread, because we're not talking about asking bioware to consider what they write in general, but in regard to the distribution of drama in romances among men and women. And this has quota-related vibe.

 

Ballance in the content of narrative tropes and ballance in the quantity of available content are two different things. If we were refering to the latter, you'd have a point, we are however discussing the former. In which case, ballance has no merit.

 

Thank you for agreeing with my point that asking Bioware to consider what they write isn't implying a quota. That fact that the writing we are talking about is female romances does not add a quota. Just asking them to take note of what they have already written and think about whether it's intentional.

 

That was an extreme example to your comment about ballence NEVER having merit. I'd disagree about it not having merit when you are giving 2 sets of people very different content repeatedly.

[Sylvianus]

It's the misery loves company mindset. Not sure what's hard to understand about that. If the drama BS was more balanced I certainly wouldn't be thinking "why do I get all this crap and they get multiple ways to avoid it when they finally get it at all."

 

And you couldn't make another thread for that...why exactly?

 

But that's just it...we tend to be the ones getting this.

 

We only got two sweet romances because we got twice as many as everyone else. That alone says it all. Everyone else gets 2 sweet romances no extra required. But since we get the BS options we had to get extra just to get equal (sweet options obviously) with everyone else! Our default options were freaking Blackwall and Bull. THOSE WERE OUR DEFAULTS.

 

Meh. Doesn't change my point of view how I see it. 

 

And I don't see the need to create a thread about romances because I don't feel the need to do it ? It's just a very minor thing for me, I was just a bit annoyed. I might give my opinion in other threads because this is the goal of this forum after after all, but otherwise, It isn't a big deal. I just wish Bioware to takes notes, that's it, 

 

Iron Bull was already there, that's one, and Cullen was indeed added. But again, in the end, you are still complaining as hell, and not because of the thought that you could have only heartbreak romances without the extra time, but precisely because you had ones with Blackwall and Solas. Even if you didn't know that Cullen was added, it would be the same reactions.

[Ryzaki]

Meh. Doesn't change my point of view how I see it. 

 

And I don't see the need to create a thread about romances because I don't feel the need to do it ? It's just a very minor thing for me, I was just a bit nnoyed. I might give my opinion in other threads because this is the goal of this forum after after all, but otherwise, It isn't a big deal. I just wish Bioware to takes notes, that's it, 

 

Iron Bull was already there, that's one, and Cullen was indeed added. But again, in the end, you are still complaining as hell, and not because of the thought that you could have only get heartbreak romances without the extra time, but precisely because you had ones with Blackwall and Solas. Even if you didn't know that Cullen was added, it would be the same reactions.

 

*shrug*

 

Then you can you know ignore the thread. That's what most people do with thread subjects that don't interest them. As for BW taking notes that's kind of what I'm hoping as well.

 

I never said Bull wasn't one.

 

Uh...no actually I'm not complaining about the romances with Blackwall and Solas so do take care not to shove words in my mouth (Unless you see me complaining about Solas outside the lack of resolution?). My issue is this is a constant with BW. And that if we hadn't gotten extra romances once again I'd been stuck with the unavoidable drama laden option. It's a pattern and one that I hope BW's made aware of even if they decide not to change it. God forbid we do that apparently.

[Sylvianus]

*shrug*

 

Then you can you know the thread. That's what most people do with thread subjects that don't interest them. As for BW taking notes that's kind of what I'm hoping as well.

 

I never said Bull wasn't one.

 

Uh...no actually I'm not complaining about the romances with Blackwall and Solas so do take care not to shove words in my mouth. My issue is this is a constant with BW. And that if we hadn't gotten extra romances once again I'd been stuck with the unavoidable drama laden option. It's a pattern and one that I hope BW's made aware of even if they decide not to change it. God forbid we do that apparently.

 

I wasn't talking about you personally, but people in this thread. Some for example want Bioware to fix things with Solas and Blackwall, because they are sick of that kind of romance, because they do not want drama anymore, or because they don't want bad endings with the romance content despite Cullen and Iron Bull elsewere in their current options. So it has little to do with the thought that Cullen was added, even if indeed it could tell about a pattern Bioware should avoid. 

 

I don't know, personally, if I am looking for a sweet romance, then I go for the sweet romance. And if hate heartbreak romances, okay then, I spoil myself with the story and that way I can avoid those romances, without having to remove a content that could please others. 

[TevinterSupremacist]

Thank you for agreeing with my point that asking Bioware to consider what they write isn't implying a quota. That fact that the writing we are talking about is female romances does not add a quota. Just asking them to take note of what they have already written and think about whether it's intentional.

 

That was an extreme example to your comment about ballence NEVER having merit. I'd disagree about it not having merit when you are giving 2 sets of people very different content repeatedly.

No, talking about female romances doesn't add a quota. But this isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about distributing drama more equally among male and famle aimed romances. Which does imply a quota.

 

My comment about ballance never having merit was within the context of this discussion which is about giving males and females equale share of drama in romances. Obviously ballance in general encompasses more things. Things irrelevant to the discussion we're having.

 

Both your replies are related to you turning a blind eye to the context of our discussion, is there a  reason for this?

[Ryzaki]

I wasn't talking about you personally, but people in this thread. Some for example want Bioware to fix things with Solas and Blackwall, because they are sick of that kind of romance, because they do not want drama anymore, or because they don't want bad endings  despite Cullen and Iron Bull elsewere in their current options. So it has nothing with the thought that Cullen was added, even if indeed it could tell about a pattern Bioware should avoid. 

 

I don't know, personally, if I am looking for a sweet romance, then I go for the sweet romance. And if hate heartbreak romances, okay then, I spoil myself with the story and that way I can avoid those romances, without having to remove a content that could please others. 

 

Well all I'm asking is Solas get a decent conclusion. That's not absurd people asked much the same with Morrigan and received it. Blackwall's story is already done.

 

And all I'm asking is in the future could BW think maybe just maybe they could heap that drama somewhere else for a change if they must have it instead of heaping it yet again on male characters that are romancable. Because it is a pattern and honestly it's gotten repetitive. And honestly I'm already in the habit of spoiling myself doing that for each game and be narrowed down to one LI gets really freaking tiresome. It also doesn't help that the devs have a bad habit trying to hide who the LIs are and who's available to who so I can see who's more liable to have drama BS.

 

So yeah I'm gonna ask the devs maybe think about lessening up on that in the future and if that bothers you *shrug* this is the feedback thread and what I'm asking is nowhere near unreasonable.

[Abelas Forever!]

I told myself I wasn't going to come back to this discussion....

 

On the point of wanting others to suffer...  Noting that the OP has come back in an attempt to clarify her points, I feel like it's also fair to point out that a lot of others that have joined in the conversation since the OP have been very much asking for others to suffer (or at least, what to them is suffering).  I've seen people admit to things like "the DR wouldn't have been quite so bad if men had to go through the equivalent."   I can go back and find that exact post if anyone needs a quote for proof. 

 

What is the point of a comment like that?  It reads to me like some people think that if they have to have unpleasant experiences in romances, they'd feel better if everyone had to have a hard time, too.   I know others are arguing that they should be spread about just for the sake of variety, which I totally agree with. 

 

I think because we've gotten such a wide range of people with a wide range of opinions in the discussion, we're in a place now where we're not necessarily discussing the OP anymore.  We're now discussion the bajillion other things that have come up.  And while the OP and others aren't looking to make the world suffer like them, there have been a fair amount of other ladies coming by this thread to express exactly that opinion. 

 

It seems to me like the position is confusing at this point.  I've seen people argue that they'd be happy if the pain were spread around, but then in another post the exact same person says that they're sick of tragic romances (whatever their personal definition might be) and they don't want to have them at all anymore.  Which is it you want?  Many people in this discussion continue to talk about how awful their romances have been for reasons of LI's like Jacob and Thane (who seem to be the poster boys for the tragic female romance), and how they don't want those romances.  They want Thane to live somehow.   But then in the next breath they'll say they're just fine with tragedy, but not THAT tragedy, and oh by the way, men should have tragedy too.  If male Shep's female LI died unavoidably, they'd be fine with Thane's death.

 

The OP's argument has become increasingly muddled due to the many voices expression their varied opinions on the subject.  All I can say is I'm increasingly confused as to what folks want... which is probably because everyone wants something different. 

I think this subject is quite complicated because people's definition of tragic romances varies a lot and what people want from their romance varies a lot too. I can only tell what I think about tragic romances and it might seem that something that I said contradicts on my other posts but that is not the case. I hate romances like Thane and Jacob. I don't want those romances if it's possible to avoid them. On the other hand I can deal with Thane romance and I actually liked it quite a lot. Maybe because my Shepard is going to die quite soon and then they can be together again. I believe he is waiting for my Shepard. So in the context of ME3 Thane romance was ok and lovely. But if that would have happened in Inquisition I wouldn't have like it because in general I don't like those kind of romances and there had been doomed romances in M3 and your inquisitor will be alone at the end of the game if her LI dies. What comes to Jacob I just don't know how I could ever like that kind of romance. I guess the Adamant thing was quite a big deal to me. Because of Thane and Jacob in ME3 and all the difficulties with the Alistair romance. I guess it was kind of breaking point for me and I get quite frustrated about the tragic romances because of it and it doesn't help that there isn't tragic romances to PCs' who are romancing female LIs. It feels unfair. I'm also worried that romance with Solas will end badly. I'm just hoping there really is a way to be with him again. But after ME3 I don't expect that to happen even though it is hinted that he will come back.

I find this discussion very interesting because it gives me insight into romances. I have been thinking a lot about the DR. For me the problem with it was that Alistair agrees too easily to do it and when I see the scene it seems like he is going to make love with Morrigan instead of just having sex. I don't mean that he should suffer but to me it seems that he is enjoying the DR too much. When reading this thread I realised that maybe if there would have been one scene after the DR where you could have talked about the DR with Alistair it wouldn't have been that bad. Same with Anders. If you could have talked about him blowing up the chantry after it happened then I believe that the situation wouldn't have been that bad to some people. So the problem is not always the tragic romance but how it is handled.

[whitless256]

Orrrrrrr, really difficult choices giving the best of both worlds - say no to railroading 

 

Not everyone wants that either.  Some of us want romances to progress naturally, and with characters like Solas, the natural end of that romance is for him to leave.  I don't want an option to make Solas betray his ideals just to stay with me.  It would feel, to me, like a cheapening of the character if he could be dissuaded from his purpose just because he loves me.  That feels wrong for his character.  So please don't railroad the rest of us into what you want, either.

 

What most have agreed with, despite their position on the issue, is that all kinds of people play these games and that there's nothing wrong with having options that please as many people as possible.  Even people who think there's waaaay more tragedy than I do are very quick to acknowledge that I should still be able to have something that appeals to me, even if they don't want to partake in it.  Just like I don't begrudge them not wanting that type of romance.  So please don't railroad those of us who disagree with you into having it all the way you want. 

[Abelas Forever!]

Not everyone wants that either.  Some of us want romances to progress naturally, and with characters like Solas, the natural end of that romance is for him to leave.  I don't want an option to make Solas betray his ideals just to stay with me.  It would feel, to me, like a cheapening of the character if he could be dissuaded from his purpose just because he loves me.  That feels wrong for his character.  So please don't railroad the rest of us into what you want, either.

 

What most have agreed with, despite their position on the issue, is that all kinds of people play these games and that there's nothing wrong with having options that please as many people as possible.  Even people who think there's waaaay more tragedy than I do are very quick to acknowledge that I should still be able to have something that appeals to me, even if they don't want to partake in it.  Just like I don't begrudge them not wanting that type of romance.  So please don't railroad those of us who disagree with you into having it all the way you want. 

I think quite many people including me wants that Solas romance should be as it was in the game. Of course there are people who disagree with that. But I think it would be quite natural for him to come back after he has done whatever he has to do. So what I'm hoping is that were are given a change to take him back as well as a change to break up with him. I also think that it would be quite natural  that the choice to be with him wouldn't be easy. I wouldn't see any cheapening of the character or the romance here. Instead I would see that it would make many people happy.

[Zobert]

No, it doesn't mean you can't give your opinion on what you think PEOPLE OTHER THAN YOU would enjoy based on YOUR OWN THOUGHTS even though THEY CAN DO IT THEMSELVES. It just means that doing so would be patronising and unnecessary.

 

As for the rest of your post, we just disagree. I explained you why such arguments even if they don't make the company enforce quotas, can create quota-related implications. You didn't even try to deny that. I fear that such implications could (even if only subconsciously) make writers deviate from their original inspirations for ballance's sake.

 

Bob Dylan (and others) <=note irony, said that there's nothing new under the sun.  Obviously, if enough people are saying the same thing then this individual's individual opinion is a touchstone on a common theme.  There is nothing wrong with then assuming that other people feel the same way or need that voice.

 

This forum is something I hesitated for a long time to join because it is very much a gang-bang at times on people who make suggestions that are contrary to the current schema of the game.

 

Feedback and Suggestions means that Bioware encourages feedback and suggestions, so while you may not like how this individual is phrasing it until there is a "Moderator" tag beside your name allow them the ability to do so without telling them how they need to word their suggestions.

 

If you have an issue with the suggestion, counter that, but to dictate the "how" of their expression is very controlling and off-putting.

[Sylvianus]

Well all I'm asking is Solas get a decent conclusion. That's not absurd people asked much the same with Morrigan and received it. Blackwall's story is already done.

 

And all I'm asking is in the future could BW think maybe just maybe they could heap that drama somewhere else for a change if they must have it instead of heaping it yet again on male characters that are romancable. Because it is a pattern and honestly it's gotten repetitive. And honestly I'm already in the habit of spoiling myself doing that for each game and be narrowed down to one LI gets really freaking tiresome. It also doesn't help that the devs have a bad habit trying to hide who the LIs are and who's available to who so I can see who's more liable to have drama BS.

 

So yeah I'm gonna ask the devs maybe think about lessening up on that in the future and if that bothers you *shrug* this is the feedback thread and what I'm asking is nowhere near unreasonable.

 

Nowhere it was said in my post that it was unreasonable or absurd from me, I just wanted things to be clear about the issue for some, let's not fool ourselves. I don't think I have ever given my opinion on this matter in this thread about Solas. Actually not even the Op  bothered me. I just react to some posts when I want to. 

 

And you have to excuse me, but if you really hate or fear heartbreak romances in your game, or drama during the relationship ( dark ritual with alistair for example ), then, you are kinda forced to spoil yourself before playing the game since you can't know in any game which sort of romance content Bioware will give with every single LI, even when all the romance could be finally sweet or have good endings.  Unless you expect Bioware to tell you before the release of the game that all the Lis are sweet romances, which they never will as well. unless you don't want tragic romances at all with the romance options in any game.  I expected an happy ending with Morrigan, it didn't happen in DAO, well I had mixed feelings, but I accepted and I moved on.  Someone who absolutely wants to avoid drama with his relationships ( for example ) should always knows before playing, it's not anyone's fault if the player is limiting himself. Bioware can't cater to the specific tastes of every single fan. 

 

Someone in this thread has had a bad experience with her RL relationship and she said that she doesn't want to live that in a video game. What should be the solution, that she spoils herself to be sure it doesn't happen with her LI, looking for a very sweet romance like Cullen or that a specific content should never been told simply because a fan lived things in his relationship in real life ? I think it's obvious. On tumblr, I see female gamers satisfied with the Blackwall romance content, I even see fans loving him in his character thread on the bsn. I see people squeezing and happy with the story told to them. It does mean that not everyone feel the same about him and the romance so hated by some in this thread. Variety is simply the best answer. 

 

When you ask for less heartbreak romances, what does it mean exactly ? * I am just curious * Are you hoping that for once, there's no heartbreak romances at all in the next game, or that all the tragic romances could have the possibility to control the ending of the romance ? ( Or anything else, just want to understand concretely what that means ) 

 

ps : Please, let me decide myself what bothers me or not.   It's a feedback thread, yes, with different points of view, * I * not agreeing with your points doesn't mean anything, we are just discussing. 

[TevinterSupremacist]

Feedback and Suggestions means that Bioware encourages feedback and suggestions, so while you may not like how this individual is phrasing it until there is a "Moderator" tag beside your name allow them the ability to do so without telling them how they need to word their suggestions.

 

If you have an issue with the suggestion, counter that, but to dictate the "how" of their expression is very controlling and off-putting.

I didn't tell them how to word their suggestions or tried to stop them from posting them. I just explained why their words were patronising.

[Ryzaki]

Nowhere it was said in my post that it was unreasonable or absurd from me, I just wanted things to be clear about the issue for some, let's not fool ourselves. I don't think I have ever given my opinion on this matter in this thread about Solas. Actually not even the Op  bothered me. I just react to some posts when I want to. 

 

And you have to excuse me, but if you really hate or fear heartbreak romances in your game, or drama during the relationship ( dark ritual with alistair for example ), then, you are kinda forced to spoil yourself before playing the game since you can't know in any game which sort of romance content Bioware will give with every single LI, even when all the romance could be finally sweet or have good endings.  Unless you expect Bioware to tell you before the release of the game that all the Lis are sweet romances, which they never will as well. unless you don't want tragic romances at all with the romance options in any game.  I expected an happy ending with Morrigan, it didn't happen in DAO, well I had mixed feelings, but I accepted and I moved on.  Someone who absolutely wants to avoid drama with his relationships ( for example ) should always knows before playing, it's not anyone's fault if the player is limiting himself. Bioware can't cater to the specific tastes of every single fan. 

 

Someone in this thread has had a bad experience with her RL relationship and she said that she doesn't want to live that in a video game. What should be the solution, that she spoils herself to be sure it doesn't happen with her LI, looking for a very sweet romance like Cullen or that a specific content should never been told simply because a fan lived things in his relationship in real life ? I think it's obvious. On tumblr, I see female gamers satisfied with the Blackwall romance content, I even see fans loving him in his character thread on the bsn. I see people squeezing and happy with the story told to them. It does mean that not everyone feel the same about him and the romance so hated by some in this thread. Variety is simply the best answer. 

 

When you ask for less heartbreak romances, what does it mean exactly ? * I am just curious * Are you hoping that for once, there's no heartbreak romances at all in the next game, or that all the tragic romances could have the possibility to control the ending of the romance ? ( Or anything else, just want to understand concretely what that means ) 

 

ps : Please, let me decide myself what bothers me or not.   It's a feedback thread, yes, with different points of view, * I * not agreeing with your points doesn't mean anything, we are just discussing. 

 

You're really coming across as saying for people not to complain about this though. If that's not your intention then I apologize but that's really how your tone is coming across to me.

 

I have no issue with spoiling myself actually. It just gets tiresome when I know there's gonna be a BS romance for me to avoid. Also that's kind of hilarious when I already pointed out I just want a minimization of it or to be able to do what male players already can do. Take options to alleviate the drama. But you're coming across as how dare I even ask for that much. You pointed out Cass but her drama is all avoidable. Blackwall's? Not so much.

 

EXACTLY Variety. Which means once in a while we can get the romances that don't drown in drama. But that hasn't happened yet. (and even the ones that don't have drama to begin with get drama injected in the sequels). Meanwhile the male LIs get their drama decreased sequel to sequel if they ever have any to begin with.

 

Not at all. I actually want romances like Cass or Josie's for females for once. That if there is drama it's avoidable depending on your choices through the game, they haven't been secretly lying to you or manipulating you for their own gain and there's not a wall slam of hoops to jump through near the end of the game. Zevran was fine to me. His main issue was his presentation was terrible (why would I recruit an assassin trying to kill me) other than that he was fine sadly though he of all the LIs in DAO was pushed most into complete irrelevance. Fenris drama also didn't entail him lying or deceiving you.

 

I never said you couldn't have it bother you. But coming into a thread to police what other people say is really getting on my nerves. If you don't mind the tragic romance don't run in here telling people they shouldn't let it bother them because it doesn't bother you. Or it's not actually that bad.

[Aletheia]

Why is Thane's death surprising? It's literally one of the first things he tells you. I would have preferred a way to cure him in the end, if only because I believe that the player's control over the story is paramount, but why is it stupid?

Oh no, if he would be in the hospital and then after X missions you get the news that his situation gets worse, so you go either instateneously to the hospital, seeing him in his bed, weak, maybe talk to him again and leave

 

or you do some other mission and then you get the secon note that his health gets really worse and then you either go

 

and see that he is comatose, doesnt react, so you just sit there, holding his hand, then ask whether you can stay for the night and mabe just position yourself next to him, holding him, maybe crying  and waking up the next day and he is dead.

 

-or you ignore the message and get the info that he died and the question whether you want to come to a funeral, talk with his son or so.

 

this are just small things but it would be better than -well you saved him from getting impaled by that *******, but he´ll die, you know that, we know that and thats okay. But it would be cool if you´d get, as a acknowledgement of sorts, for your work (really, doing all the stuff so that he doesnt die by kai leng is a shitload of work and then just seeing that thane seems to cease to exist and like NOBODy notices? that hurts.) a small scene with his son and a funeral and also you have a bit more interaction then "hi friend, wanna bang. you die sometime in the future and you are ill as hell, but, eh lets bang in the hospital."

 

seriously..

 

 

thats just sheit writing. I mean as my mom died i was wrecked, but if my SO would die, i would be wrecked galore.. having him just disappear and then...

"ded" is even more sheit.

[Zobert]

I didn't tell them how to word their suggestions or tried to stop them from posting them. I just explained why their words were patronising.

 

See bold.  You explained why you felt their words were patronising (that they were attempting to speak for others) which was essentially because of how they phrased their opinion.  In the bolded, you are doing what you accused the poster of doing; stating something without equivocation of debate.

 

I didn't see it as patronising, so doe that mean you're attempting to speak for me?  I don't think you are.  You're just speaking from your own POV like that poster and everyone else.

 

Why bog down in semantics?  This is not the regular portion of the forums, this is us speaking to the developers (hence "Feedback") and if you disagree with a point, disagree as if you're speaking to the development team at Bioware.

 

I just feel it's unhelpful to attack turns of phrase or wording and miss the point of the post.

[Sylvianus]

You're really coming across as saying for people not to complain about this though. If that's not your intention then I apologize but that's really how your tone is coming across to me.

 

I have no issue with spoiling myself actually. It just gets tiresome when I know there's gonna be a BS romance for me to avoid. Also that's kind of hilarious when I already pointed out I just want a minimization of it or to be able to do what male players already can do. Take options to alleviate the drama. But you're coming across as how dare I even ask for that much. You pointed out Cass but her drama is all avoidable. Blackwall's? Not so much.

 

EXACTLY Variety. Which means once in a while we can get the romances that don't drown in drama. But that hasn't happened yet. (and even the ones that don't have drama to begin with get drama injected in the sequels). Meanwhile the male LIs get their drama decreased sequel to sequel if they ever have any to begin with.

 

 

I never said you couldn't have it bother you. But coming into a thread to police what other people say is really getting on my nerves. If you don't mind the tragic romance don't run in here telling people they shouldn't let it bother them because it doesn't bother you. Or it's not actually that bad.

 

You know what is only getting on my nerves ? It's reading some posts about how straight males got nothing, yadda yada yadaa. Some exaggeration, etc. Nothing else. I said what I felt, you know, an opinion in this thread, like everyone has. My opinion is also that as long as there was variety in DA:I, I don't really get why it bothered people. * I * finding objectionable some points doesn't mean that I am here to police what people say. You have your opinion, I have mine. I am discussing like everyone else. I dare you to show me where I said something close to " how dare you complain about alleviating drama ? "    

 

You can count on me to post something every single time that I disagree with posters. And I don't give a f***ck what people think of my posts. Deal with it. And I certainly won't apologize for that. Just know that the Op basically didn't bother me.

 

And  please show me where I said something close to  If you don't mind the tragic romance don't run in here telling people they shouldn't let it bother them because it doesn't bother you. Or it's not actually that bad.

 

Saying, since there is variety, then everyone should be normaly pleased, go for the sweet romances if you don't like tragic romances isn't the same at all. You do like to exxagerate it seems ?

[whitless256]

You're really coming across as saying for people not to complain about this though. If that's not your intention then I apologize but that's really how your tone is coming across to me.

 

I have no issue with spoiling myself actually. It just gets tiresome when I know there's gonna be a BS romance for me to avoid. Also that's kind of hilarious when I already pointed out I just want a minimization of it or to be able to do what male players already can do. Take options to alleviate the drama. But you're coming across as how dare I even ask for that much. You pointed out Cass but her drama is all avoidable. Blackwall's? Not so much.

 

EXACTLY Variety. Which means once in a while we can get the romances that don't drown in drama. But that hasn't happened yet. (and even the ones that don't have drama to begin with get drama injected in the sequels). Meanwhile the male LIs get their drama decreased sequel to sequel if they ever have any to begin with.

 

Not at all. I actually want romances like Cass or Josie's for females for once. That if there is drama it's avoidable depending on your choices through the game, they haven't been secretly lying to you or manipulating you for their own gain and there's not a wall slam of hoops to jump through near the end of the game. Zevran was fine to me. His main issue was his presentation was terrible (why would I recruit an assassin trying to kill me) other than that he was fine sadly though he of all the LIs in DAO was pushed most into complete irrelevance. Fenris drama also didn't entail him lying or deceiving you.

 

I never said you couldn't have it bother you. But coming into a thread to police what other people say is really getting on my nerves. If you don't mind the tragic romance don't run in here telling people they shouldn't let it bother them because it doesn't bother you. Or it's not actually that bad.

 

I'm gonna play devil's advocate here and probably regret it... but...

 

Since we can't change past games, the question is, does DAI continue the trend of having MOST female relationships be tragic, or does it show improvement on the trend?  To discuss this somewhat more objectively, we have to define terms... and I KNOW that this is not going to be the same definition for all.  Most people are quoting "unavoidable tragedy" as the threshold for what they deem unacceptable.  That's hard to define, so for the sake of this let's go with the man choosing to end the relationship or the relationship ending through unavoidable death.

 

In DAI, there are 4 romances for straight women.  One of those romances ends in unavoidable tragedy.  Two of those romances have no drama and end happily (these two romances are catered to varied tastes, with Bull and Cullen being very different men).  One of these romances has some difficulty along the way, but ultimately ends happily if the player chooses to pursue.    That gives us a final tally of 25% of the romances here end in unavoidable tragedy.

 

In the Mass Effect series, women had (eventually) four options.  Two of those four end really badly (Thane and Jacob).  So that's 50% of your romances ending badly.  And yeah... both of these ended REALLY badly. 

 

DAO has two romances for straight women.  Zevran ends well.  Alistair has been debated backwards and forwards and up and down.  Alistair will marry you if you're a human noble, but not if you're an elf/mage/dwarf.  So let's say 33% of the romances here end up being tragic with Alistair possibly saying he can't marry you.  This is also in here to give some weight to the people that find the DR so objectionable that it kills the romance for them.  I included this because there seems to be a heavy majority of folks calling Alistair tragic, even though he doesn't fit my criteria above 100%.

 

DA2 is hard to weigh here given that all but one of the LIs were written to be romanced by both genders, so if tragedy occurs for one, it occurs for another.  I'm inclined to leave it out.  But there is ONE female only romance in Sebastian, and it generally ends happily.  So 0% here for female only romances.

 

So looking at it this way, it's Mass Effect that's really weighing the tragedy end of the scale.  We've got Mass Effect, as a single story, ending half the time in tragedy for women.  DAO gives a woman a 33% chance of having her heart broken.  DAI only breaks hearts 25% of the time.  DA2 is a weird little outlier given how romances were constructed. 

 

So... it's getting better.  The OP's point still stands, but I think it's important to note that, overall, we're moving away from the Jacob and Thane type tragedies, which are really awful, to things that aren't quite as bad.  Maybe by the next game, there will be even more progress towards helping women avoid breaking their hearts. 

 

Additionally, DAI is moving closer to equality in the sense that men CAN get dumped by Divine Cassandra.  Not unavoidable, but it IS there.  I think it's also fair to look at things in the sense that maybe the writers recognized that Blackwall was a tough romance with a lot of difficult points to it.  Could that be why, instead of removing it, or rewriting Blackwall, they made the bonus Cullen romance a drama free, happy ending option?  So they wouldn't take anything away, but worked towards balancing things out?