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[Ryzaki]

You know what is only getting on my nerves ? It's reading some posts about how straight males got nothing, yadda yada yadaa. Some exaggeration, etc. Nothing else. I said what I felt, you know, an opinion in this thread, like everyone has. My opinion is also that as long as there was variety in DA:I, I don't really get why it bothered people. * I * finding objectionable some points doesn't mean that I am here to police what people say. You have your opinion, I have mine. I am discussing like everyone else. I dare you to show me where I said something close to " how dare you complain about alleviating drama ? "    

 

You can count on me to post something every single time that I disagree with posters. And I don't give a f***ck what people think of my posts. Deal with it. And I certainly won't apologize for that. 

 

And  please show me where I said something close to  If you don't mind the tragic romance don't run in here telling people they shouldn't let it bother them because it doesn't bother you. Or it's not actually that bad.

 

Saying, since there is variety, then everyone should be normaly pleased, go for the sweet romances if you don't like tragic romances isn't the same at all. You do like to exxagerate it seems ?

 

Straight males got nothing of what? What are you even talking about? Believe me the few drama laden romances you have are noted. I already said several times if you want more to make a thread.

 

If that's your opinion then can you stop quoting me jumping down my throat? Just say your piece and move on. Because yes when you quote me just to say "I didn't feel it was a big deal" yes that comes across as "well I didn't think it was an issue so why do you do?" if you really can't see that then...I'm not sure what to say. Because yes that comes across as why are you complaining.

 

Neither will I.

 

...the variety means I usually get 1 option if I want to avoid BS. (Assuming I'm lucky). Will the damn gameworld explode if for one game we get the Cass/Josie light romances and males get the Blackwall/Bull types? Really? Us asking for this bothers you that much?

[Ryzaki]

 

I didn't argue DAI was the worse (I never would really. That title goes to BG2).

 

DA2 has Anders but as you say he's for both genders. Isabela also but again she's for both genders. The rest of tragedy/betrayal that's mostly avoidable.

 

Yet again. I never asked they rewrite the romances that are already written. It's done with. I'm not asking for that to change. (Closure for Solas is not however and I would appreciate that). I'm asking that they see the pattern for what it is and hopefully if it's not intentional move that drama to the other side.

 

But yes Cullen was a nice gesture in balancing out Blackwall. That said I'd rather in the future the Blackwall type romance not be the default they head for that it needs to be balanced out in the first place or if it is could they consider having them be a romance for male PCs.

[Brass_Buckles]

You know what is only getting on my nerves ? It's reading some posts about how straight males got nothing, yadda yada yadaa. Some exaggeration, etc. Nothing else. I said what I felt, you know, an opinion in this thread, like everyone has. My opinion is also that as long as there was variety in DA:I, I don't really get why it bothered people. * I * finding objectionable some points doesn't mean that I am here to police what people say. You have your opinion, I have mine. I am discussing like everyone else. I dare you to show me where I said something close to " how dare you complain about alleviating drama ? "    

 

You can count on me to post something every single time that I disagree with posters. And I don't give a f***ck what people think of my posts. Deal with it. And I certainly won't apologize for that. Just know that the Op basically didn't bother me.

 

And  please show me where I said something close to  If you don't mind the tragic romance don't run in here telling people they shouldn't let it bother them because it doesn't bother you. Or it's not actually that bad.

 

Saying, since there is variety, then everyone should be normaly pleased, go for the sweet romances if you don't like tragic romances isn't the same at all. You do like to exxagerate it seems ?

 

It isn't that straight males got no heartbreakers, but that the vast majority of yours are avoidable heartbreak.

 

If there must be heartbreak, then I'd prefer it to be more like the heartbreak potential is treated for those who play male characters (and I do occasionally play straight male characters, or gay male characters, etc., though I MOSTLY play straight women because, hey, I identify as a straight woman).

 

If there is inevitable, unavoidable, can't-change-it-because-of-story type heartbreak (lying, cheating, death, betrayal), then yes, I think sometimes the female LIs should be the perpetrators, rather than it always being a male LI who is available to woman.  If this is considered a problem, if it is believed that players of male characters will somehow be upset by this, then perhaps it shouldn't be done in an unavoidable way at all.

 

This is not at all the same thing as wanting men to suffer, or whining that we're victims.  I pointed out in the OP and I will continue to stand by my stance that it's not so much that I think this is sexism, or targeting women, but something that BioWare has done (piling the heartbreak onto straight female characters) without realizing that they've done it.  The purpose of this thread is, as stated repeatedly, to bring awareness to that fact and to propose possible solutions.  One of those solutions is obviously "just spread it out to all demographics."  Another solution is "Less heartbreak in general."

 

The best solution, in my opinion, for a choice-based game, is "Make the outcome capable of being influenced by the player's choice, so that there isn't any inevitable heartbreak."  But, that does have the downside of harming stories that do require inevitable heartbreak, and in those cases, why does it always fall to men to be the betrayers, liars, cheaters, etc?  Again, it's a problem, we've noticed it's a problem, and we would like it to be addressed. 

 

As to the person who says Anders is not female-only:  yes, I'm perfectly aware that all DA2 romances are bisexual; in fact I do believe I mention that in the OP, where I also list Morrigan as potentially a heartbreaker if not for the fact that DLC gives her a happy ending.  Anders can have a semi-happy ending, sure, but he still betrays Hawke no matter what you do or say.  And I don't consider it completely happy if you disagreed with his actions, or even if you did--he is a fugitive.  He and Hawke can never really be together for long without endangering Hawke, and that's assuming they ever do meet up again.

[Dahae]

Lol reading this post has made me consider myself lucky for playing as a human noble for the first time in Origins so my Warden and Alistair got a happy ending, then Fenris in DA2 so again happy ending, and then Cullen in DA:I for yet again, happy ending. 

 

I must be good at picking my own happiness

[whitless256]

I didn't argue DAI was the worse (I never would really. That title goes to BG2).

 

DA2 has Anders but as you say he's for both genders. Isabela also but again she's for both genders. The rest of tragedy/betrayal that's mostly avoidable.

 

Yet again. I never asked they rewrite the romances that are already written. It's done with. I'm not asking for that to change. (Closure for Solas is not however and I would appreciate that). I'm asking that they see the pattern for what it is and hopefully if it's not intentional move that drama to the other side.

 

But yes Cullen was a nice gesture in balancing out Blackwall. That said I'd rather in the future the Blackwall type romance not be the default they head for that it needs to be balanced out in the first place or if it is could they consider having them be a romance for male PCs.

 

Not every post is responding ONLY to you.  I used your post as a jumping off point to respond to issues that MANY people have brought up.  I apologize if by quoting you I gave the misconception that I was talking only to you rather than the discussion as a whole.

 

My point was to point out that progress is being made.  It might not be at a place where everyone is happy.  It was meant as a comment to others who seem pretty down that things ARE getting better and may not be as dire as they imagine. 

 

But to your other point, I don't see Blackwall as being a default.  In the end product there are four romances and each one, in my opinion, holds equal weight.  Saying one being the default lends weight to your argument seems to disregard the end product in order to comment on an incomplete product.

[Ryzaki]

Not every post is responding ONLY to you.  I used your post as a jumping off point to respond to issues that MANY people have brought up.  I apologize if by quoting you I gave the misconception that I was talking only to you rather than the discussion as a whole.

 

My point was to point out that progress is being made.  It might not be at a place where everyone is happy.  It was meant as a comment to others who seem pretty down that things ARE getting better and may not be as dire as they imagine. 

 

But to your other point, I don't see Blackwall as being a default.  In the end product there are four romances and each one, in my opinion, holds equal weight.  Saying one being the default lends weight to your argument seems to disregard the end product in order to comment on an incomplete product.

 

Apology accepted then.

Edit: Um...it's generally accepted someone's responding to you when they quote you. Now if you had broken the part where you quoted me by saying in general or something like that then yeah. But if you quote and don't break up the quote don't be surprised when someone assumes you're talking to them.

 

They are and this thread is simply to ask for feedback on something they might not have been doing intentionally. I see nothing wrong with this.

 

The devs said themselves Blackwall and Bull were the primary female LIs. They were the ones that were going to be in the game before the extended time. Cullen and Solas were extra added afterwards. I'm simply using it as an example of how the LIs tend to be skewered by default in BW games. Again something the devs might not have noticed they were doing but has occured.

[whitless256]

As to the person who says Anders is not female-only:  yes, I'm perfectly aware that all DA2 romances are bisexual; in fact I do believe I mention that in the OP, where I also list Morrigan as potentially a heartbreaker if not for the fact that DLC gives her a happy ending.  Anders can have a semi-happy ending, sure, but he still betrays Hawke no matter what you do or say.  And I don't consider it completely happy if you disagreed with his actions, or even if you did--he is a fugitive.  He and Hawke can never really be together for long without endangering Hawke, and that's assuming they ever do meet up again.

 

FYI, According to Hawke in DAI in my game, he and Anders are currently involved in a very happy relationship.  They ran away from Kirkwall together and are currently still living together wherever they've been hiding out.  And he's no more a fugitive than a Hawke that sides with mages, which is pretty much the required position for the Anders romance to end with them together.   They're a pair of fugitives in love hiding out together and perfectly happy in their relationship.

 

At least that's how my game ended, not according to my own headcanon, but according to Hawke when I asked him about Anders in DAI. 

[Brass_Buckles]

Not every post is responding ONLY to you.  I used your post as a jumping off point to respond to issues that MANY people have brought up.  I apologize if by quoting you I gave the misconception that I was talking only to you rather than the discussion as a whole.

 

My point was to point out that progress is being made.  It might not be at a place where everyone is happy.  It was meant as a comment to others who seem pretty down that things ARE getting better and may not be as dire as they imagine. 

 

But to your other point, I don't see Blackwall as being a default.  In the end product there are four romances and each one, in my opinion, holds equal weight.  Saying one being the default lends weight to your argument seems to disregard the end product in order to comment on an incomplete product.

 

If in your opinion having one romance that lies to you and leaves you alone naked in a barn in a very skeevy, creepy way, as a default romance, when your other option is a BDSM guy who tells you he knows you need to be dominated (um... can be rather problematic when directed at women, for so many reasons), is "improvement," I'd hate to see what you feel is worse.  Bear in mind that Solas and Cullen were added only when the deadline was extended, and of all the female romances, the only "mainstream" one is basically Cullen.  Two of them are still heartbreakers.

 

I know people say Blackwall's can end well. I had heard he vanished from Skyhold and was available only in-party post-game so I guess I heard wrong or someone's game was glitched?--Either way he lies to you about his identity and leaves you naked and alone in a barn and that's Not Cool; the sex scene could have and should have waited until after the reveal of his identity/problem as part of his forgiveness arc.  Then he would have been both more forgivable in general and it would not have been so problematic.

[Brass_Buckles]

FYI, According to Hawke in DAI in my game, he and Anders are currently involved in a very happy relationship.  They ran away from Kirkwall together and are currently still living together wherever they've been hiding out.  And he's no more a fugitive than a Hawke that sides with mages, which is pretty much the required position for the Anders romance to end with them together.   They're a pair of fugitives in love hiding out together and perfectly happy in their relationship.

 

At least that's how my game ended, not according to my own headcanon, but according to Hawke when I asked him about Anders in DAI. 

 

My pro-mage Hawke did not agree with his actions so they were not together; instead Anders was on the run and Varric suspected that he'd crawl back to Hawke eventually.  Hawke was entirely uncertain about how she felt about him--loving him and hating him at the same time.  That's not a happy ending.

[whitless256]

If in your opinion having one romance that lies to you and leaves you alone naked in a barn in a very skeevy, creepy way, as a default romance, when your other option is a BDSM guy who tells you he knows you need to be dominated (um... can be rather problematic when directed at women, for so many reasons), is "improvement," I'd hate to see what you feel is worse.  Bear in mind that Solas and Cullen were added only when the deadline was extended, and of all the female romances, the only "mainstream" one is basically Cullen.  Two of them are still heartbreakers.

 

I didn't say Blackwall wasn't skeevy... I said he wasn't unavoidably tragic.  But I've said that many times so feel free to read my other posts on the topic.

 

Additionally, many people have come to this thread to advocate for Bull as a very sweet romance.  Just because he is there to offer something for women who prefer a different type of sexual relationship doesn't mean he's not a supporting, loving character, as many people who did his romance have been very quick to say.  And as someone who has no problem with Bull's kinks, I'm actually kind of offended that you see his kink as offensive and problematic.   Lots of women are into that kind of thing.  Doesn't mean we're into being abused by our men nor does it mean that Bull is an LI that hurts his partner.  It means he's not your type of man. 

 

I think it IS an improvement that Bioware recognizes that different types of people exist and they've made an LI that is into it.  I've NEVER had a romance like Bull before and I'm looking forward to doing it in my next game.

 

My pro-mage Hawke did not agree with his actions so they were not together; instead Anders was on the run and Varric suspected that he'd crawl back to Hawke eventually.  Hawke was entirely uncertain about how she felt about him--loving him and hating him at the same time.  That's not a happy ending.

 

I was just offering my ending as an example that an Anders romance can end with them being together, which you suggested it couldn't.  I wasn't arguing that everything ended happily with him.  Just letting you know that the option existed.

[Sylvianus]

Straight males got nothing of what? What are you even talking about?

 

If that's your opinion then can you stop quoting me jumping down my throat? Just say your piece and move on. Because yes when you quote me just to say "I didn't feel it was a big deal" yes that comes across as "well I didn't think it was an issue so why do you do?" if you really can't see that then...I'm not sure what to say.

 

 

 

Geez, I only quoted you because you said to another poster who felt the same as me that you didn't see what was so hard to understand; Then I told and explained you why from my point of view, it was hard to understand  because it seemed weird to me. ( whether people agree or not isn't the matter ) That was what I felt. See, I call that a perspective. I was not there to police you or anyone else, I was simply disagreeing with how some people could treat the topic sometimes in this thread as simply explained. I had nothing against you, I simply gave an answer to what is so hard to understand from the point of view of someone who didn't understand why in a topic which concern female gamers involve so much the straight male players and felt the need to affect their content, nothing else.

 

Of course, feel free to disagree, but it was hardly an attack. 

 

Now, I leave it that, because I can only be irritated with such discussion. 

[EvilChani]

Not everyone wants that either.  Some of us want romances to progress naturally, and with characters like Solas, the natural end of that romance is for him to leave.  I don't want an option to make Solas betray his ideals just to stay with me.  It would feel, to me, like a cheapening of the character if he could be dissuaded from his purpose just because he loves me.  That feels wrong for his character.  So please don't railroad the rest of us into what you want, either.

 

Sorry, but you insisting on not having a way to an ending to the Solas romance where you actually get to be with him in the end is you railroading everyone else into your vision of it. That's the thing few people here seem to get.

 

Simply having an option to get the ending you want (i.e., you get to be with your LI in the end) does not preclude you from getting the miserable ending you want where your relationship is over. If your character feels it is wrong to do whatever it takes to be with him, and that doing so would cause Solas to betray his ideals, there's a simple solution: DON'T FREAKING DO IT!  But insisting that no one else have the option simply because you don't like it or agree with it is selfish and, to be honest, childish.

 

It reminds me of this girl I played with when I was a kid, who always threw a tantrum because she didn't like the way I played with my dolls (she didn't care for me setting up army men around the Barbie pool and taking out Barbie because she was a spy), despite the fact that she was usually playing with something else at the time. When she was at her house, playing with her stupid Barbie pool, she could have them do what she wanted (which was usually Ken and Barbie laying on top of each other, which I didn't get at the time because I was at the point in time where I showed a boy I liked him by stealing his hat or punching him). The point is that they were my toys so I could play how I wanted. With her toys, she could play how she wanted. That's kinda how it works.

 

Because game companies want to appeal to the largest audience possible, especially when they produce an RPG, it would behoove them to provide ways to achieve a variety of endings. In other words, give us options. For those who want to have things work out with Solas, give us a DLC so that it can, much like they did with Morrigan. For those who think that would be a sellout, feel free to stab him at the end (like you could do with Morrigan) or leave him or whatever. But simply offering the possibility of a happy ending hurts no one. Just because some people feel certain stories or romances should always have a sad/tragic ending doesn't mean they're right, and it doesn't mean everyone else should suffer through it simply because one group feels that it "fits". If companies like BioWare want to keep the loyalty of people like me, who hate tragic endings and like happy and satisfying endings, then they need to remember this and give us ways to avoid the misery. And if people who love misery can't deal with that, then they need to grow the hell up.

[Ryzaki]

Geez, I only quoted you because you said to another poster who felt the same as me that you didn't see what was so hard to understand; Then I told and explained you why from my point of view, it was hard to understand  because it seemed weird to me. ( whether people agree or not isn't the matter ) That was what I felt. See, I call that a perspective. I was not there to police you or anyone else, I was simply disagreeing with how some people could treat the topic sometimes in this thread as simply explained. I had nothing against you, I simply gave an answer to what is so hard to understand from the point of view of someone who didn't understand why in a topic which concern female gamers involve so much the straight male players and felt the need to affect their content, nothing else.

 

Of course, feel free to disagree, but it was hardly an attack. 

 

Now, I leave it that, because I can only be irritated with such discussion. 

 

So simply put you weren't speaking to me after a while and couldn't be bothered putting as such in the quote. Welp thanks for the clarification.

[whitless256]

Sorry, but you insisting on not having a way to an ending to the Solas romance where you actually get to be with him in the end is you railroading everyone else into your vision of it. That's the thing few people here seem to get.

 

Simply having an option to get the ending you want (i.e., you get to be with your LI in the end) does not preclude you from getting the miserable ending you want where your relationship is over. If your character feels it is wrong to do whatever it takes to be with him, and that doing so would cause Solas to betray his ideals, there's a simple solution: DON'T FREAKING DO IT!  But insisting that no one else have the option simply because you don't like it or agree with it is selfish and, to be honest, childish.

 

It reminds me of this girl I played with when I was a kid, who always threw a tantrum because she didn't like the way I played with my dolls (she didn't care for me setting up army men around the Barbie pool and taking out Barbie because she was a spy), despite the fact that she was usually playing with something else at the time. When she was at her house, playing with her stupid Barbie pool, she could have them do what she wanted (which was usually Ken and Barbie laying on top of each other, which I didn't get at the time because I was at the point in time where I showed a boy I liked him by stealing his hat or punching him). The point is that they were my toys so I could play how I wanted. With her toys, she could play how she wanted. That's kinda how it works.

 

Because game companies want to appeal to the largest audience possible, especially when they produce an RPG, it would behoove them to provide ways to achieve a variety of endings. In other words, give us options. For those who want to have things work out with Solas, give us a DLC so that it can, much like they did with Morrigan. For those who think that would be a sellout, feel free to stab him at the end (like you could do with Morrigan) or leave him or whatever. But simply offering the possibility of a happy ending hurts no one. Just because some people feel certain stories or romances should always have a sad/tragic ending doesn't mean they're right, and it doesn't mean everyone else should suffer through it simply because one group feels that it "fits". If companies like BioWare want to keep the loyalty of people like me, who hate tragic endings and like happy and satisfying endings, then they need to remember this and give us ways to avoid the misery. And if people who love misery can't deal with that, then they need to grow the hell up.

 

My argument is only that Bioware should not compromise their characters in order to give everyone exactly what they want.  I feel that Solas staying at the end of DAI to be with his LI would cheapen his character. 

 

Generally people go for the outcome that works out best because that's human nature.  But sometimes it's a better story to have it completely out of your hands.  I'm not asking that every romance or character be that way... just that it's nice to have a few of those out there.  If it were in my power to make him stay, I'd probably go for that, but to have him still go despite my pleas to the contrary... I liked that.  It felt right to me.  I hope Bioware continues to write some stories this way.  Not all.  SOME.

 

Let's not let this turn into a name-calling match, please, just because we disagree.  No one is throwing a tantrum or acting like a child.  We're expressing different points of view.  My point of view is that Bioware should tell the character's story first and foremost, and the romance second.  I can't say that things that happen in future DLCs might not change my mind about what would do Solas' character justice, but in the game I've played so far, I feel  his character leaving was in line with the character I learned to respect and love in the game. 

[wildannie]

Not everyone wants that either.  Some of us want romances to progress naturally, and with characters like Solas, the natural end of that romance is for him to leave.  I don't want an option to make Solas betray his ideals just to stay with me.  It would feel, to me, like a cheapening of the character if he could be dissuaded from his purpose just because he loves me.  That feels wrong for his character.  So please don't railroad the rest of us into what you want, either.

 

What most have agreed with, despite their position on the issue, is that all kinds of people play these games and that there's nothing wrong with having options that please as many people as possible.  Even people who think there's waaaay more tragedy than I do are very quick to acknowledge that I should still be able to have something that appeals to me, even if they don't want to partake in it.  Just like I don't begrudge them not wanting that type of romance.  So please don't railroad those of us who disagree with you into having it all the way you want. 

At what point have I suggested that Solas should have been able to be persuaded to stay in DAI???  ... that is not what I said.  What I have stated is that in a DLC  for future content,  I believe that there should be a continuation of Solas story that allows for closure on the romance, and that the end result should not be a one size fits all, but based upon previous actions, and choices.  The inquisitor should be able to have some impact on the outcome.   I am quite sure that most people who are invested in the character of Solas would agree with me.

 

In general terms the argument that having choices would prevent the 'romance progressing naturally' makes no sense to me as there are many factors that could affect these relationships in positive and negative ways, with both positive and negative outcomes being a 'natural progression'.  When outcomes are set in stone it often doesn't feel natural as in RL there are few situations that play out the same when the players are changed.  The inquisitors we create have widely varying backgrounds and world views so being able to achieve different outcomes makes good sense.

 

If, without metagaming, it was very likely that optimum endings would be missed.  I don't see what your problem is with the possibility of a more positive ending being there?  As far as I can tell it is because either you would be bitter about others enjoying the game in a different way from yourself, or that you would feel that you had played the game 'wrongly' to get  the tragedy  you desire and I don't really sympathise with either of these reasons.   If to save your LI you had to let down a companion or friend, that's hardly a win, it is a different choice and is also tragic.

[EvilChani]

My argument is only that Bioware should not compromise their characters in order to give everyone exactly what they want.  I feel that Solas staying at the end of DAI to be with his LI would cheapen his character. 

 

Generally people go for the outcome that works out best because that's human nature.  But sometimes it's a better story to have it completely out of your hands.  I'm not asking that every romance or character be that way... just that it's nice to have a few of those out there.  If it were in my power to make him stay, I'd probably go for that, but to have him still go despite my pleas to the contrary... I liked that.  It felt right to me.  I hope Bioware continues to write some stories this way.  Not all.  SOME.

 

Let's not let this turn into a name-calling match, please, just because we disagree.  No one is throwing a tantrum or acting like a child.  We're expressing different points of view.  My point of view is that Bioware should tell the character's story first and foremost, and the romance second.  I can't say that things that happen in future DLCs might not change my mind about what would do Solas' character justice, but in the game I've played so far, I feel  his character leaving was in line with the character I learned to respect and love in the game. 

 

I agree that we're expressing different points of view, but that's my whole point. Just because you feel that Solas should leave no matter what and that you should have no other option, say going with him, it is just your opinion. Not everyone feels that way, so to them, giving an option not to end the relationship, or at least be left with an open ending that leaves some sort of hope they'll be together in the future, is not betraying the characters.

 

People in love don't always act rationally and, in fact, they often act like complete and utter morons, especially when they are on the verge of losing people who are important to them. Solas, whatever he may be, still possesses enough human qualities - and emotion - to make it believable that he could either be guilted into staying or into taking his woman with him wherever he's going (Morrigan did it, so why not him?). It all revolves around our interpretations of the story and characters, which is shaped by our experiences, personality, and views on the world. No matter what the authors/devs intend to portray, people will often see something different unless it's spelled out in a way with which no one can argue. And that is the whole point...and why, in almost all cases, there should be options to achieve various endings, including happy ones, even if, in some instances, they come at a high price.

[whitless256]

At what point have I suggested that Solas should have been able to be persuaded to stay in DAI???  ... that is not what I said.  What I have stated is that in a DLC  for future content,  I believe that there should be a continuation of Solas story that allows for closure on the romance, and that the end result should not be a one size fits all, but based upon previous actions, and choices.  The inquisitor should be able to have some impact on the outcome.   I am quite sure that most people who are invested in the character of Solas would agree with me.

 

In general terms the argument that having choices would prevent the 'romance progressing naturally' makes no sense to me as there are many factors that could affect these relationships in positive and negative ways, with both positive and negative outcomes being a 'natural progression'.  When outcomes are set in stone it often doesn't feel natural as in RL there are few situations that play out the same when the players are changed.  The inquisitors we create have widely varying backgrounds and world views so being able to achieve different outcomes makes good sense.

 

If, without metagaming, it was very likely that optimum endings would be missed.  I don't see what your problem is with the possibility of a more positive ending being there?  As far as I can tell it is because either you would be bitter about others enjoying the game in a different way from yourself, or that you would feel that you had played the game 'wrongly' to get  the tragedy  you desire and I don't really sympathise with either of these reasons.   If to save your LI you had to let down a companion or friend, that's hardly a win, it is a different choice and is also tragic.

 

I apologize if I misunderstood what you were asking for.  I thought you were seeking out a resolution in the DLC that would allow for the option of you ending up staying with Solas in some form or another.  But if it's just some kind of relationship closure, that's different and I misunderstood. 

 

No, I'm not bitter about others enjoying the game.  Frankly, I'm tired of people who disagree with me attacking me personally rather than attacking my argument.  As someone who does a lot of writing, I know that I would not enjoy having others tell me how my intellectual property should react.  Solas' entire character arc was created before he even became a romance option and I would feel for his creators if they were forced to compromise their vision in order to appease a portion of the playerbase who want to end up staying with him romantically. 

 

What I've been advocating for from the start, and at times I've strayed on tangents, is that a character's journey should not have to be changed in order to allow for a happy romance ending.  I'm not arguing this for my pleasure or your pleasure, but because I feel like it's important that we get the characters as they were intended by the people who created them, not the characters altered for a romance that most of the players won't even see.

 

This is my opinion.  This is how I enjoy a story.  I'm not saying anyone else's opinion is wrong.   But it's my place to express my OPINION in a discussion on the matter.

[Zobert]

My argument is only that Bioware should not compromise their characters in order to give everyone exactly what they want.  I feel that Solas staying at the end of DAI to be with his LI would cheapen his character. 

 

Generally people go for the outcome that works out best because that's human nature.  But sometimes it's a better story to have it completely out of your hands.  I'm not asking that every romance or character be that way... just that it's nice to have a few of those out there.  If it were in my power to make him stay, I'd probably go for that, but to have him still go despite my pleas to the contrary... I liked that.  It felt right to me.  I hope Bioware continues to write some stories this way.  Not all.  SOME.

 

Let's not let this turn into a name-calling match, please, just because we disagree.  No one is throwing a tantrum or acting like a child.  We're expressing different points of view.  My point of view is that Bioware should tell the character's story first and foremost, and the romance second.  I can't say that things that happen in future DLCs might not change my mind about what would do Solas' character justice, but in the game I've played so far, I feel  his character leaving was in line with the character I learned to respect and love in the game. 

 

 

I would 100% agree if this were a book or movie.  I hate, hate, hate the author of the Song of Fire and Ice series for killing Ygritte, but I understand that it is HIS world.

 

Games are interactive and require my participation and, not to put too fine a point on it, also cost a hella lot more than a book on Kindle.

[Moirnelithe]

I have not seen anyone post that the way DA:I ends with Solas was wrong in itself. I have seen people (including myself) request for a DLC or future game where the Solas / Lavellan relationship gets closure. Don't just make a new game with a little note saying "oh and your SO has died, sucks right" and never reference it again (silly example but I'm sure you know what I mean). And if that closure happens to be one that isn't inevitably tragic that would make a lot of people happy.

 

The main problem is having had so many inevitable tragic endings happen to our romances in the past and fear exists that there will be many more in the future, and some of us are getting tired of it. It's like playing russian roulette, which romance to pick which won't make you feel like crap for weeks after. People identify with characters in games a lot, if their characters get hurt so do they. If that happens a few times in a row it sucks, if it happens too often though, people will start to feel seriously let down. I feel that's what is happening now, DA:I on its own having tragic endings is fine, but after the previous games where this also happened it's just too much. Straw that breaks the camel's back kind of thing.

[Zobert]

I think it is actually a testament to the writers that we feel this way, not a criticism.  They made us care about these characters.  I bought Inquisition for Varric.  I missed my dwarf buddy even though the sets of Kirkwall ate ass.

[TevinterSupremacist]

See bold.  You explained why you felt their words were patronising (that they were attempting to speak for others) which was essentially because of how they phrased their opinion.  In the bolded, you are doing what you accused the poster of doing; stating something without equivocation of debate.

 

I didn't see it as patronising, so doe that mean you're attempting to speak for me?  I don't think you are.  You're just speaking from your own POV like that poster and everyone else.

Read the thread before attempting to participate. That poster said "I think they would enjoy content [x], they should have more of it". It wasn't a matter of wording, she was attempting to speak for others and it was factually patronising.

 

Trying to make a factual claim isn't patronising simply because someone might not agree with the reality you try to present. Speaking about what you think people other than you enjoy is.

[wildannie]

I apologize if I misunderstood what you were asking for.  I thought you were seeking out a resolution in the DLC that would allow for the option of you ending up staying with Solas in some form or another.  But if it's just some kind of relationship closure, that's different and I misunderstood. 

 

No, I'm not bitter about others enjoying the game.  Frankly, I'm tired of people who disagree with me attacking me personally rather than attacking my argument.  As someone who does a lot of writing, I know that I would not enjoy having others tell me how my intellectual property should react.  Solas' entire character arc was created before he even became a romance option and I would feel for his creators if they were forced to compromise their vision in order to appease a portion of the playerbase who want to end up staying with him romantically. 

 

What I've been advocating for from the start, and at times I've strayed on tangents, is that a character's journey should not have to be changed in order to allow for a happy romance ending.  I'm not arguing this for my pleasure or your pleasure, but because I feel like it's important that we get the characters as they were intended by the people who created them, not the characters altered for a romance that most of the players won't even see.

 

This is my opinion.  This is how I enjoy a story.  I'm not saying anyone else's opinion is wrong.   But it's my place to express my OPINION in a discussion on the matter.

I do want an opportunity for Solas to be together with their LI in DLC, and as we don't know what Solas is doing and how it is going to turn out, none of us know whether that would compromise his character so for you to argue that it would at this point is really silly.   It is insulting actually that you're okay with me wanting 'closure' so long as it doesn't mean a reunion with Lavellan, so closure on your terms, because you're a writer...

 

Do you write for RPG games??? because I the requirements are very different.  Interactivity and choices are a crucial part of these games.  I don't think you have a good argument as it is based on linear character development and ignores player agency which completely misses an important aspect of Bioware games.  

[Zobert]

Read the thread before attempting to participate. That poster literally said "I think they would enjoy content [x], they should have more of it". It wasn't a matter of wording, she was attempting to speak for others and it was factually patronising.

 

Trying to make a factual claim isn't patronising simply because someone might not agree with the reality you try to present. Speaking about what you think people other than you enjoy is.

 

Are you a moderator?  If so, then you may tell me how and when to post on a forum.

 

When you tell her that it is patronising you are also attempting to speak for others because you, like the OP, did not caveat with "in my opinion".

 

I think neither of you meant to speak for the entirety of the world, but that's because I don't pretend that the normal flow of human conversation is always formal.

[whitless256]

My argument is only that Bioware should not compromise their characters in order to give everyone exactly what they want.  I feel that Solas staying at the end of DAI to be with his LI would cheapen his character. 

 

Generally people go for the outcome that works out best because that's human nature.  But sometimes it's a better story to have it completely out of your hands.  I'm not asking that every romance or character be that way... just that it's nice to have a few of those out there.  If it were in my power to make him stay, I'd probably go for that, but to have him still go despite my pleas to the contrary... I liked that.  It felt right to me.  I hope Bioware continues to write some stories this way.  Not all.  SOME.

 

Let's not let this turn into a name-calling match, please, just because we disagree.  No one is throwing a tantrum or acting like a child.  We're expressing different points of view.  My point of view is that Bioware should tell the character's story first and foremost, and the romance second.  I can't say that things that happen in future DLCs might not change my mind about what would do Solas' character justice, but in the game I've played so far, I feel  his character leaving was in line with the character I learned to respect and love in the game. 

 

 

I do want an opportunity for Solas to be together with their LI in DLC, and as we don't know what Solas is doing and how it is going to turn out, none of us know whether that would compromise his character so for you to argue that it would at this point is really silly.   It is insulting actually that you're okay with me wanting 'closure' so long as it doesn't mean a reunion with Lavellan, so closure on your terms, because you're a writer...

 

Do you write for RPG games??? because I the requirements are very different.  Interactivity and choices are a crucial part of these games.  I don't think you have a good argument as it is based on linear character development and ignores player agency which completely misses an important aspect of Bioware games.  

 

See my above post where I say I may change my mind about Solas when I see what the DLC content is.  I am, as always, speaking within the context of the content I've seen thus far.  I can't speculate yet on how additional content will change or reinforce my opinions.  Again, my argument is that, as it stands now, I feel the ending I envision is better in my OPINION.  Of course I'd prefer MY idea.  It's my idea... I didn't call you bitter or selfish for wanting to ride off into the sunset with him...  I said I have a different OPINION and explained why. 

 

Solas being a character of huge importance leaves his story with less flexibility than, say, Iron Bull or Cullen, who have no direct relationship to the main storyline.

 

Again... my OPINION.  Not an attack on you or your OPINION.  Just a different OPINION.   No need to attack.  I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.