1109 réponses à ce sujet

[Kimberly]

When does Solas reveal himself explain who he is on the romance track?

He doesn't. He states he'll explain later, but we don't get the later. That's why I'm hoping for a DLC.

[SgtSteel91]

See, after hearing about the total mess that was Blackwall--I wasn't into him in the first place.  But hearing all of the mess he was involved in, I could never play his romance.  That's not a story I'm interested in.  I mind Solas lying less, and I can't pinpoint exactly why.  We know he's done terrible things, and he's saying he's Solas, not, well, who he really is.  But, ancient elves seem to have changed their names based on how they saw themselves, so it seems to me he's not precisely lying there.  What he is doing is neglecting to tell the entire truth and misdirecting you.  There are hints throughout the game--but there are hints on Blackwall, too.  Their situations aren't entirely dissimilar, so I can't really understand why Blackwall's bothers me and Solas's doesn't.  Maybe it's that Solas clearly NEEDS to hide who he is, for reasons other than saving his own skin.  I'm not sure.

 

Because you like Solas and will forgive him for his crimes, just like the people who like Blackwall and are willing to forgive him of his crimes.

 

Really, Solas fucked-up harder than Blackwall ever could.

[Brass_Buckles]

Bioware skirting the rape issue is not new.  Remember the Dark Ritual, if you choose Alistair to be the... donor?  If that is not a look of terror on his face, as Morrigan approaches, and just as the light goes out, I don't know what else to call it.

 

I never said that scene was okay.  There's also Jane Shepard's potential date rape of whatshisface, and also potentially waking up next to Javik after being drunk (which is also a rapey situation, though if both were sufficiently drunk that neither could consent, that... kind of cancels itself out maybe?).  Note that male Shepard is never put into a similar situation to either of those, perhaps because the rape overtones would have been noticed for sure.

 

I could've sworn I've had this discussion before. Calling that rape is kind of absurd. He pretty much tells the PC it's not a good idea and she decides to pursue.

 

 

 

Yeah it's the self righteousness from someone who really is in the last position to be so that gets me.

 

 

Well, if he weren't hiding who he was (personalitywise etc.) I would not entirely disagree with you, but the point remains that the law does not agree with you.  I tend to think it's skeevy, but he's been living as Blackwall for so long it's probably as real, or more real, to him than his actual identity is.  Either way, it's a dirty thing to do, and, rather than just say it's not a good idea, he could have said no, outright.  Men are capable of denying consent.  In a case where someone was assuming an identity specifically for the purposes of seduction, that's when I'd call it rape outright, even if the individual really, really wanted to have sex with that person (because they're NOT the person they say they are).

[Kimberly]

Because you like Solas and will forgive him for his crimes, just like the people who like Blackwall and are willing to forgive him of his crimes.
 
Really, Solas fucked-up harder than Blackwall ever could.

It could be because Blackwall leaves after sex, which is unforgivable for many. But Solas it's ambiguous on whether anything goes beyond kissing.

[Brass_Buckles]

Because you like Solas and will forgive him for his crimes, just like the people who like Blackwall and are willing to forgive him of his crimes.

 

Really, Solas fucked-up harder than Blackwall ever could.

 

Not entirely true.  Just because I like a character doesn't mean I can't be sickened by them.  I am unsure why Solas doesn't disgust me for what he does.  Others seem to feel the same as I do, too, though.  Part of me thinks it's because if he just walked up and introduced himself as who he actually is, no one would have believed him in the first place.  So, instead, he comes up with a believable story and then proceeds to act like... himself.

 

I do not forgive him not telling the truth though, instead of running like a coward after going on about how important his commitments are to him and how he must take responsibility.  Just because it hurt him to leave, too, doesn't mean that made it okay to promise an explanation (or at least that things would become clear) and then break that promise.

 

Point being he's still a heartbreaker and while he of all of the DA:I romances probably has the best reasons for being that way, player agency would have gone a long way to make you feel like at least you had a CHANCE to make things okay.

[Brass_Buckles]

It could be because Blackwall leaves after sex, which is unforgivable for many. But Solas it's ambiguous on whether anything goes beyond kissing.

 

I think that's part of it, too.  People can headcanon what they are comfortable with.

 

As for him being worse than Blackwall... I disagree.  He never endangered or betrayed the Inquisition, he saw it through until the Big Bad was dead before he left.  However, he could have been a lot more forthright in sharing information, because he knew a whole lot of stuff that could have helped, had he deigned to share it.

 

But back on topic, yes:  Fewer heartbreakers for women (or a better balance for women and men having heartbreakers), would be nice.

[Ryzaki]

I never said that scene was okay.  There's also Jane Shepard's potential date rape of whatshisface, and also potentially waking up next to Javik after being drunk (which is also a rapey situation, though if both were sufficiently drunk that neither could consent, that... kind of cancels itself out maybe?).  Note that male Shepard is never put into a similar situation to either of those, perhaps because the rape overtones would have been noticed for sure.

 

 

 

Well, if he weren't hiding who he was (personalitywise etc.) I would not entirely disagree with you, but the point remains that the law does not agree with you.  I tend to think it's skeevy, but he's been living as Blackwall for so long it's probably as real, or more real, to him than his actual identity is.  Either way, it's a dirty thing to do, and, rather than just say it's not a good idea, he could have said no, outright.  Men are capable of denying consent.  In a case where someone was assuming an identity specifically for the purposes of seduction, that's when I'd call it rape outright, even if the individual really, really wanted to have sex with that person (because they're NOT the person they say they are).

 

Ugh yeah that wasn't funny. I just headcanon that as Javik being Javik and trolling. The other explanation is nauseating.

 

Eh while I do agree it'd been better for him to simply deny the sex til his identity was revealed and it was a pretty messed up thing to do and he was fully capable of denying consent I'm gonna have to say I doubt the law is as clear cut as you're claiming it is.

[Bliss]

I'm going to argue about that. We get into a moral gray area when it comes to lie by omission with Solas. He's also never left her in any precarious positions. And, if you stop him from killing the mages, you don't know if he murdered anyone. Blackwall is a murderer. Lied about it. Stole the identity of a dead Gray Warden. Even if he tries to dissuade the Inquisitor from having sex, he still goes through with it and leaves them naked and alone in a public space. Not even up in his loft. No no no. In the bottom area all laid out for the world to see. Kinky, sure, but skeevy on so many levels. Why? Because he is a COWARD. There is a difference between those two. A marked difference. The Inquisitor doesn't even know they were lied to (from omission) and even when/if they do find out. So yeah.....apples and oranges.

[SgtSteel91]

I was talking about Solas giving the Orb to Corypheus and starting the whole mess in the first place. Everyone killed from the Conclave onward is on Solas' head. He is so much worse than Blackwall who killed one family and stole the real Blackwall's identity.

[Thiefy]

I love tormenting my characters, but I agree that straight female characters certainly seem to get the majority of the tragedy. It's especially frustrating when you have something like the situation with Thane in ME that had a large number of people asking or pleading with Bioware to give him a cure in ME3. So what did they do? Killed him right in front of the player. At least if they'd left him still alive but uncured at the end it would have been up to the players imagination.

 

And then there's also the number of romances that have dead women in their lives.

 

Baldur's Gate 2: Anomen has a dead sister who he idolized. (Kivan in BG1 also has a dead wife, but he isn't a romance)

Neverwinter Nights: I think Valen had a dead lady friend who'd tried to help him.

Kotor: Carth has a dead wife (plus kid gone off the rails).

Mass Effect: Thane has pretty much the same situation as Carth, dead wife (and a living but off the rails kid)

Dragon Age: Zevran has a dead lady friend.

(Dragon Age 2: Anders lost Karl at the start who was his lover, though this isn't mentioned for a female romancing him)

 

Actually, I think Inquisition may be the first to break from the dead past lover/woman trend. Unless there's one that I don't recall being mentioned.

 

Anyway, maybe straight female Inquisitors will get lucky and at least Solas will give some closure in future DLC similar to the way Morrigan did? (though I'm pessimistic)

Bolded: Cullen and a mage!Warden. Added bonus of angst from 2 installments in the series.  Of course most of the people who have canon mage wardens love this side of him....

 

I think there was another thread that touched base on this before, but I think it's not so much that the idea of the straight female romance tends to be like this or that. As others have pointed out there have been 'happy' romances, and some of those tragic romances are open to gay and bisexual men.

 

The problem is that all/most of the sucker punches come from male LIs. The female LIs just do not put their SO through the same trials that the guys do.

 

You know I kind of have to reiterate the same sentiments as other people here and say I also felt like I dodged a bullet by picking and being allowed to pick Cullen as my LI.damn if I didn't breathe a huge sigh of relief to find it ended happy (up to now anyway). I was waiting for things to go south.  That romance was so fulfilling on so many levels. 

 

So yeah, i think the way to fix/even this out isn't about the female romance variety per say, but having female LIs hand out sucker punches. 

[NoForgiveness]

See I'd like a tragic ending for once... I've never had that in any game. I mean I didn't figure out Leliana's romance until after I stopped doing the US. I was dumped by Alistair once before doing the US but that playthrough was messed up. I started his romance by accident while I was doing Zevran.. like I said, messed up. When I did Anders' romance I let him live and we hoped off to save the mages. Wasn't tragic at all...

It is weird that they all seem to be men, though....

[Kimberly]

O.o


 
I will say that they do need to release a DLC that deals with these douches though.
 
ME3:
Jacob- I want to kick him in the nuts with ice cleets.
 
Dragon Age:
Anders- Again I want to kick him in the nuts with ice cleets, so freakin stupid what he did, my Hawke had no choice but to kill him.
Blackwall leaving after sex: Seriously should let me kick him in the nuts for doing that
Solas: Them elf ladies need some closure dude.

Lol lots of people needing their nuts kicked..yes so much. Any way I love your quote in your signature. So so true on the BSN.

[Dakota Strider]

That reminds me of the one other issue about the Cassandra romance (besides the possibility of her becoming Divine):  In the big romance scene, she picks that moment to discuss her one other lover...a mage who died at the Enclave.  Really?  Maybe that should have been discussed earlier, rather than the heat of the moment?

 

As for her becoming Divine, while I think she may have made the best of the three candidates, I sabotaged the heck out of that, as soon as I learned it would mean the breaking of the relationship.  So much for sacrificing for the good of the world. 

[We'll bang okay]

Alistair's romance can end somewhat okay, I'm mean just because there are not with each other 24/7, doesn't mean they are not on good terms.

[Ryzaki]

That reminds me of the one other issue about the Cassandra romance (besides the possibility of her becoming Divine):  In the big romance scene, she picks that moment to discuss her one other lover...a mage who died at the Enclave.  Really?  Maybe that should have been discussed earlier, rather than the heat of the moment?

 

As for her becoming Divine, while I think she may have made the best of the three candidates, I sabotaged the heck out of that, as soon as I learned it would mean the breaking of the relationship.  So much for sacrificing for the good of the world. 

 

I admit I lol'd hard at that.

 

Dat timing Cassandra.

 

But yeah since I'm usually romancing Bull or Cullen I don't mind Cass being divine. She's much better than the other two candidates for me.

[Thiefy]

Alistair's romance can end somewhat okay, I'm mean just because there are not with each other 24/7, doesn't mean they are not on good terms.

Good job at reading the thread.

[MelissaGT]

Bolded: Cullen and a mage!Warden. Added bonus of angst from 2 installments in the series.  Of course most of the people who have canon mage wardens love this side of him....

 

*snip*

 

But Bioware left that open to interpretation. Some folks imagine Cullen pining away forever for Amell/Surana. Some (myself included), imagine him moving on with his life and finding love with the IQ. In my game he admits that it was infatuation, but that was it.."puppy love."

 

I have a canon mage Warden who will forever and always be Alistair's girl. I think she would be a little weirded out if she thought Cullen was still pining away for her...thank goodness he's not in my world!

[MelissaGT]

I never said that scene was okay.  There's also Jane Shepard's potential date rape of whatshisface, and also potentially waking up next to Javik after being drunk (which is also a rapey situation, though if both were sufficiently drunk that neither could consent, that... kind of cancels itself out maybe?).  Note that male Shepard is never put into a similar situation to either of those, perhaps because the rape overtones would have been noticed for sure.

 

*snip*

 

Woah, I think there's a difference between date rape and a drunken one-night-stand. Fem!Shep gets a little up in James' biz (he flirts with her constantly throughout the game), but if you play through the Citadel DLC party, James consents. After the fact, they both state that it was nothing more than a one-night-stand. With Javik, he says something along the lines of "I know what humans do well," which to me clearly indicates he has no regrets. Still...Javik...eeewww...

[Uirebhiril]

Yeah I've been complaining about this for a while.

 

It's a bit absurd at this point. Give another group the drama please. It's gotten old a while ago.

 

I mean thinking on it...if it wasn't for Cullen's extra romance my options would've been between a liar (on that gets on a high horse at that) or BDSM king. (And I love Bull's mance don't get me wrong but really? Those would've been my options?)

 

Yeah, I am grateful for that extra development time giving us Cullen and Solas. I like both Blackwall and Bull as characters, but I would have felt beyond shafted if they had been my only male options. It doesn't have to be rainbows, light, and same-old boring sweet male love interest, but that's taking it off into a whole other direction. I'm usually good about making a character that can fit the situation and take options to see content, but in this case, no. There are some levels of comfort I won't push myself out of just for some different dialogue.

 

NWN, do you remember the option for females? Yeah, I had to go look for his name. He was that insignificant. Nor was he mentioned in later installments. Later installments give you a better option, but still less than their male counterparts. So should we be adding disposable to our list of things females characters can use to describe their LIs?

 

Ah, yes, Aarin Gend. He who joins the other "I killed my lover and feel guilt and woe over it but I love you so please listen while I cry about it" love interests. But sure dude, I'm totally good with that and love you anyway! Uh no. I did like Valen though, even if he had the dead wife issue. Least he didn't kill her!

 

DAI absolutely did good in that regard. I didn't hear a peep about dead wives this time. I think the closest it came was Cassandra mentioning her dead first love?

 

At least Solas has a much more convincing excuse. Jacob is an arsehole.

 

I honestly have no problem with how Solas's romance turned out in the game. His timing for breaking it off was rather... dense, but he was always going to leave and the romance couldn't really change that. It was beautiful and emotional and just the right kind of heartbreak if we get some actual closure. If that doesn't get ignored, forgotten, or bunged up in some way, it's going to end up my favorite romance - and considering how little content there was, that's saying a lot of good things about the writing and how the character was portrayed.

 

So if we end up finding out that he never gave a damn about the inquisitor, coldly shuts her down if she has the opportunity to ask him about "us," or is off the evil deep end and we have to kill him and/or watch him die in the process of going through with some plan, I will rage. Much like if we get nothing at all, ever again. Considering his nature and who he actually is, I get that it could be hard for a happily ever after ending to make sense... but why can't we get the option to go through a magic mirror with him? Seemed to work well for Morrigan and her lover. This very thread is indication that we are sort of due for that much at this point.

[Jackal19851111]

Heh closure for Solas? In real life you NEVER get any REAL closure after a breakup. So what he did by disappearing and going no contact is actually better for your elfquisitor lol

 

Still, I would love to see my elfquisitor's reaction finding out he's the dread wolf lol

[Chernaya]

I gotta say with my past LI track record being Alistair, Isabela, and Anders, it was soo nice that my first romance choice in DAI (Iron Bull) ended up sweet with no lying or drama. Even though I enjoyed all those former romances, this was the first time I completed one without ever feeling a little ticked-off at some point. Even still though, his romance has aspects that would make some people uncomfortable therefore cutting him off the list for some players from the get-go. When I think about how Cullen was a later add-in for an LI, it surprises me that initially straight women would have been left to pick between Blackwall and Bull. It's not that they are bad characters, but more that both of those paths have stuff many people wouldn't like/prefer. I guess you can say neither of them are the 'vanilla' romance experience. I can't deny that female romances in Bioware games do tend to cake on the drama and angst a lot compared to the others. I'd say this applies even more-so in the Mass Effect games.

[MelissaGT]

I still can't believe nobody has brought up Garrus! Poor hawt space-dinosaur-bird-man-thing is left out in the cold... 

[Uirebhiril]

Heh closure for Solas? In real life you NEVER get any REAL closure after a breakup. So what he did by disappearing and going no contact is actually better for your elfquisitor lol

 

Still, I would love to see my elfquisitor's reaction finding out he's the dread wolf lol

 

I'm sure it's different between people and relationships, but I can easily say I've had a good measure of closure for the breakups I've experienced. Sometimes it's having a good long chat with the other party, and sometimes it is just shrugging your shoulders and letting that be the end of it. Since it's not unreasonable to expect Solas to appear in future DLC or installments of the game, I'm sure more than a few of us that romanced him would like to see something come of that. Otherwise it WILL be just another romance that left us frustrated and without a truly good ending - which doesn't even have to be a happily ever after.

 

But, you know. Mirror. Happy. I'd be good with that too.

[SamanthaJ]

I'm sure it's different between people and relationships, but I can easily say I've had a good measure of closure for the breakups I've experienced. Sometimes it's having a good long chat with the other party, and sometimes it is just shrugging your shoulders and letting that be the end of it. Since it's not unreasonable to expect Solas to appear in future DLC or installments of the game, I'm sure more than a few of us that romanced him would like to see something come of that. Otherwise it WILL be just another romance that left us frustrated and without a truly good ending - which doesn't even have to be a happily ever after.

 

But, you know. Mirror. Happy. I'd be good with that too.

There's also the fact that the frigging romance "lock in" happens during the scene where he breaks it off. It just doesn't feel over over.