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[The dead fish]

It is not a choice, for Cassandra. You can avoid this ending, yes, but it is not a choice. Something which hasn't anything to do with the plot, like it was the case with Morrigan in her DLC. Do you want to follow me ? Yes or No ? And you have to decide. Not the case in DA:I.

 

Cassandra can become Divine regardless of your will and it will only depend on how you shape the world during all the game, chosen by a process in the game. It's not unavoidable, but not a choice either. With one character you could have Cassandra, but with another one with other choices that you want to play and rp for example,  it's entirely possible that you couldn't have her. You'll have to deal with it. There's no way to change the ending. 

 

And on the opposite, even if you support Cassandra as the new divine, it is not assured at all that the chantry follows you.

[Abelas Forever!]

It is not a choice, for Cassandra. You can avoid this ending, yes, but it is not a choice. Something which hasn't anything to do with the plot, like it was the case with Morrigan in her DLC. Do you want to follow me ? Yes or No ? And you have to decide. Not the case in DA:I.

 

Cassandra can become Divine regardless of your will and it will only depend on how you shape the world during all the game, chosen by a process in the game. It's not unavoidable, but not a choice either. With one character you could have Cassandra, but with another one with other choices that you want to play and rp for example,  it's entirely possible that you couldn't have her. You'll have to deal with it. There's no way to change the ending. 

 

And on the opposite, even if you support Cassandra as the new divine, it is not assured at all that the chantry follows you.

I understand why you don't consider it as a choice if you don't make Cassandra as a divine. But I still consider it as a choice. It's a choice given to the player. You have a choice to shape the world so that Cassandra never becomes a divine. If I would be given a choice to reunite with Solas in future DLC and that could only happen if I didn't drink from the Well of Sorrows and I collected all the shards and resolve all the astrariums I would consider it as a choice. I guess it would be more accurate to call it choices which leads to a reunion with Solas if you want to take him back but as a player I have a choice to reunite my PC with Solas. Anyway if you are roleplaying your character it doesn't necessarily matter is the choice something that is given to the player or something more simple like yes or no because depending on the character you may not be able to choose the other choice which would lead to a reunion.

[wildannie]

There are few things I like about ME3, but I think the one thing I appreciate the most is the fact that, depending upon earlier choices, it is possible to save Mordin.  I didn't choose to save him (only played the game once) but knowing that it was not set in stone allows me to appreciate  the sadness of the moment more, in a good way.  Had I liked the game I would have saved him once for sure, but him dying would have been my canon.

[BubbleDncr]

I understand why you don't consider it as a choice if you don't make Cassandra as a divine. But I still consider it as a choice. It's a choice given to the player. You have a choice to shape the world so that Cassandra never becomes a divine. If I would be given a choice to reunite with Solas in future DLC and that could only happen if I didn't drink from the Well of Sorrows and I collected all the shards and resolve all the astrariums I would consider it as a choice. I guess it would be more accurate to call it choices which leads to a reunion with Solas if you want to take him back but as a player I have a choice to reunite my PC with Solas. Anyway if you are roleplaying your character it doesn't necessarily matter is the choice something that is given to the player or something more simple like yes or no because depending on the character you may not be able to choose the other choice which would lead to a reunion.

 

I would say its a choice on later playthroughs - IF you researched online what influences who become divine. 

 

I say this because I specifically wanted Cassandra as Divine on my first playthrough, but ended up with Leliana. On my 2nd and 3rd playthroughs, I can make the Divine be who I want it to be, but only thanks to the internet. 

 

If most people who romance Cassandra behave the way I do in romances (generally sharing the same values as the character you romance) - then the people who romance Cassandra would be more inclined to end up with her as Divine, just by how they're playing. And they won't realize what caused it until the go look it up online. And then if they choose to not make her Divine, they probably have to go back and replay majority of the game, since siding with templars/mages is one of the main deciders. 

 

So yea - not a choice, unless you're metagaming. Which most people who romanced her on their first playthrough are not doing. 

[Dakota Strider]

I know, if they would have told me very early on, what the consequences of an LI becoming the Divine is, I would have made more deliberate choices to keep Cassandra from being chosen.  Early on, I supported her, but as I started to get hints that her being Divine would be an unhappy ending to the romance, I started to give my support to the other candidates.  That, along with some choices I made earlier, without regards to who would be Divine, seemed to be enough to make bloody Leliana the "winner".  

[TevinterSupremacist]

Because I know this quote. Asking for a link for such statements that are twisted to support ridiculous arguments about how additional content (especially romance) is ruining the game is merely a precaution.

You asked for a link that you knew existed in an attempt to keep a person with a different opinion than you on what content in a videogame is preferable and in what amount away from the discussion/stall them/ shut their opinion off?

 

Are you serious?

 

Am I not getting something, you actually meant that's why you did it and you consider this a...uhm..."advisable practice" in such cases?

[Addai]

I never knew Alistair-Leiliana was a thing! I remember Fenris-Isabela from 2 though! I sorta liked that, nice to know they had lives outside of Hawke!

The Alistair-Leliana thing was in Darkspawn Chronicles. But the darkspawn won in that scenario, so that's what happens when Alistair bangs an Orlesian, lol.

I didn't really like Fenris-Isabela either, because he spends the first act or two calling her a hoebag and then sleeps with her. I know Isabela doesn't mind that kind of thing, but it lessened my opinion of Fenris a bit. I'd have preferred if he'd been off releasing the steam of his smoldering rage at the Blooming Rose.

[Gileadan]

Cassandra's romance ending differs in only one sentence when she's made Divine, "I could be named Divine any day now". Everything else she says is the same, so I really don't feel that one version is happier than the other. They both strike me as "we will not have much time for each other now" - not a break up, but not completely happy times either. 

[Abelas Forever!]

I would say its a choice on later playthroughs - IF you researched online what influences who become divine. 

 

I say this because I specifically wanted Cassandra as Divine on my first playthrough, but ended up with Leliana. On my 2nd and 3rd playthroughs, I can make the Divine be who I want it to be, but only thanks to the internet. 

 

If most people who romance Cassandra behave the way I do in romances (generally sharing the same values as the character you romance) - then the people who romance Cassandra would be more inclined to end up with her as Divine, just by how they're playing. And they won't realize what caused it until the go look it up online. And then if they choose to not make her Divine, they probably have to go back and replay majority of the game, since siding with templars/mages is one of the main deciders. 

 

So yea - not a choice, unless you're metagaming. Which most people who romanced her on their first playthrough are not doing. 

It's true that if it's your first playthrough then you might not do all the right things and end up in a situation which you didn't wanted. I would imagine that then it hurts and you will have to deal with it or afterwards read from the internet how it should be done because there is a way to do it. Maybe it makes you happier when you realize that the result can be changed. I think it's much better than no choices at all. I remember when I played ME3 for the first time. I played it with EC but because I wanted to know what happen in the end so badly I think I missed some side quests or did some bad choices so I couldn't get the breathing scene in the red ending and I was devastated because I find it so sad that Shepard died and her LI was left alone. But when I read from internet that if you have a high EMS then you will get the breathing scene and that saved the whole ME3 for me. I was going to play the game again and do all the quests that I could if that could get me enough EMS. Because I suspected that I had done some really bad decisions in previous games I thought that maybe I should choose my other character instead and wait for the DLCs where I could get more war assets without playing the whole game again. That is what I did. So I would definitely play the whole game again if it's needed for the happy ending with my PC and her LI and I would be glad because then I have a choice

[Spooky81]

Just like the evil raccoon meme, I can see the writers scheming right now to develop a future romance for the guys that's not going to end well.  Though it wouldn't be the first time. Viconia and Aribeth both get killed off, with their respective heroes not being able to do anything about it.  To add further insult to injury for the latter, after supposedly executing a romanced Aribeth, Nasher kicks out the Hero of Neverwinter and effectively erases him from the history books.

 

Though I have to admit, as tragic as those two romances turn out, their outcome is better than what the ladies who romanced Jacob had to face.  To have him dump you for some random woman, get a verbal ****** slapping from his new GF when you confront her and then having to walk away not being able to say anything back to her or do anything about it, then having him tell you they want to name their baby after Shepard and have to eat a dialogue that you're happy for them.  Ouch!

[BlueLynx]

Conflict creates depth, it is not over yet, just have to play the waiting game, if they end it like that I will throw my DA out into the depths of the ocean, lol.  but tbh, I dont want it to end, I would just like to see it continue, there is so much possibility for their romance

[Icy Magebane]

As much as I don't want them spreading heartbreak around such that it starts to influence the romances I'm interested in, I have to admit that the pattern is clear and that it's not at all fair.  So even if this would wind up having a negative effect on my own playthroughs of future Bioware games, I have to agree with the OP.  While I will admit that the Divine Cassandra romances didn't end in sunshine and rainbows, a single romance out of many isn't much of a consolation when you look at the list of straight female romances that end poorly (almost all of them across both Dragon Age and Mass Effect).  Plus, there is the option to simply not support her in becoming the Divine... most of the straight female romances mentioned in this thread have no alternate paths.

[Winged Silver]

Posting my agreement! I agree that sometimes tragedy can be a great tool for writing, but it'd be nice if at least it was an optional thing. Having no way to save Thane or keep Jacob from cheating in Mass Effect was a little poor spirited, as anyone who wanted to have their Shepards have the fluffy ending became extremely limited.

 

That being said, I'd say if there's at least options for the happy ending to make it through, that would be okay. With Alistair, there's so many possible endings that at least one should be somewhat pleasing to most groups of people. Can we have more of that? ^.^ (also holding out hope for a successful relationship between my Lavellan and Solas because I'd probably be so sad if he also had to have an unhappy fate D: )

[Felya87]

The inevitable heartbreak is what is now a trend that really is starting to stink. As long as the heartbreak is a consequence of a choice, I'm all for it.

[Sartoz]

The Alistair-Leliana thing was in Darkspawn Chronicles. But the darkspawn won in that scenario, so that's what happens when Alistair bangs an Orlesian, lol.

I didn't really like Fenris-Isabela either, because he spends the first act or two calling her a hoebag and then sleeps with her. I know Isabela doesn't mind that kind of thing, but it lessened my opinion of Fenris a bit. I'd have preferred if he'd been off releasing the steam of his smoldering rage at the Blooming Rose.

Ahh... I did not play the Darkspawn Chronicles and so the Alistair-Leliana was also  a puzzle to me or Fenris and Isabella, for that matter.

 

Fenris reminds me of a character in the Merchant of Venice.  A super chip on his shoulders and can't stop talking about it.

[Winged Silver]

The inevitable heartbreak is what is now a trend that really is starting to stink. As long as the heartbreak is a consequence of a choice, I'm all for it.

Exactly! Like, if as a consequence of your choices something doesn't work out (such as not being a human noble and/or not hardening Alistair) then it's not "cruel tragic fate" (or devilish writers). It's simply a consequence of how what one interpreted to be the best choices in what's never an ideal situation. And I mean, Morrigan got to kinda have a happy reprieve by going into the Fade with her lover   can't the ladies get some of that kind of love too? 

[Felya87]

Exactly! Like, if as a consequence of your choices something doesn't work out (such as not being a human noble and/or not hardening Alistair) then it's not "cruel tragic fate" (or devilish writers). It's simply a consequence of how what one interpreted to be the best choices in what's never an ideal situation. And I mean, Morrigan got to kinda have a happy reprieve by going into the Fade with her lover   can't the ladies get some of that kind of love too? 

 

I prefer the choice make/not make Alistair King or do/not do the DR. Being dumped because of what/who my character is (in the sense of something she doesn't have fault) is just racism and cruel. And a way to say to the player "ahah! you should have picked the default character!".  

I never play if I can human characters, because I find more compelling play something different than the default, and that seemed a punishmant to me.

 

Differently, I'm more than fine with having Alistair leave if you spare Loghain. It's a choice he could not be ok with, he see the man as the killer of his family. Is right that he will not be ok with you not only letting him live, but making him "one of the family".

That is a very compelling choice.

[omnitremere]

I understand the sentiment but I disagree with this thread.  Creating heart-breaking romances for straight females is only unfair if it makes them uninteresting.  But in my opinion these romances have some of the most powerful scenes in Bioware games.  I play all the romances on both genders.  Watching Thane die in ME3 is easily a top 3 most emotionally impacting scene in that game to me.  There's no romance that I want to see more of than Solas'.  There's so many ways that could go or be explored.  I haven't completed my Blackwall romance so I can't speak on that but so far it's been very interesting.  

 

I understand it gets irritating feeling like you don't really know who you're falling in love with but at the same time there's excitement and wonder in that.  You have no idea how things are going to end up or if this relationship will truly be worthwhile.  My first DAI playthrough I was sure Cassandra would dump me any minute because I was strongly alligned with the mages.  And I was prepared that in the end she wouldn't be ready to stand with me.  Just because a relationship ends in tragedy doesn't mean you got screwed over.  Thane and Solas are 10x more memorable than Josephine and Miranda(who I like).  And frankly if having a couple more screwed up romances meant that straight males would get 4 options instead of just 2 I'd be all for it.  

[Captain Wiseass]

Speaking as a writer (not for games, but storytelling is storytelling), if someone said my sad ending to a romance story broke their heart, I'd think "Mission accomplished."

[Winged Silver]

It is not a choice, for Cassandra. You can avoid this ending, yes, but it is not a choice. Something which hasn't anything to do with the plot, like it was the case with Morrigan in her DLC. Do you want to follow me ? Yes or No ? And you have to decide. Not the case in DA:I.

 

Cassandra can become Divine regardless of your will and it will only depend on how you shape the world during all the game, chosen by a process in the game. It's not unavoidable, but not a choice either. With one character you could have Cassandra, but with another one with other choices that you want to play and rp for example,  it's entirely possible that you couldn't have her. You'll have to deal with it. There's no way to change the ending. 

 

And on the opposite, even if you support Cassandra as the new divine, it is not assured at all that the chantry follows you.

Even if it's not a conscious decision, it's more of a decision than anyone who's ever romanced characters like Thane, Jacob, or Solas ever got. If romancing Cassandra is so important to a person, they have the ability to go back and at least try to make it so someone other than Cassandra becomes Divine. And it's not terribly difficult to do so. But anyone who romanced any of the three guys I listed above doesn't have that option. They are stuck with dying, cheating, or running off to do who knows what.

[Battlebloodmage]

Even if it's not a conscious decision, it's more of a decision than anyone who's ever romanced characters like Thane, Jacob, or Solas ever got. If romancing Cassandra is so important to a person, they have the ability to go back and at least try to make it so someone other than Cassandra becomes Divine. And it's not terribly difficult to do so. But anyone who romanced any of the three guys I listed above doesn't have that option. They are stuck with dying, cheating, or running off to do who knows what.

Agree about Jacob and Thane. For Solas, it's not that they make him into a heartbreak romance rather than the plot was written way before he becomes a romance seeing as he was added during the extra development time. It's already decided that he would live, so there is not much they can change in that regard. ME has a bad track record in general when it comes to non-straight male LIs though. 

[Winged Silver]

Can I just say it pleases me to no end how long this thread has become? Whatever Bioware decides to do next, I do hope/expect the content here will be somewhere in the back of their minds...

[Felya87]

Agree about Jacob and Thane. For Solas, it's not that they make him into a heartbreak romance rather than the plot was written way before he becomes a romance seeing as he was added during the extra development time. It's already decided that he would live, so there is not much they can change in that regard. ME has a bad track record in general when it comes to non-straight male LIs though. 

 

And here comes the "how" that change everything. If Solas instead of leave without a word or break up, instead leave a letter/say goodbye after battle promising to came back...here. He always leave, but it would not be a heartbreak.

 

But I want to hope, at least for a little more time, that there will be some way (DLC/next game) to have some conclusion for his romance, and that there will be different choices to end this story (just like with Morrigan: let her go, go with her, stab her) since for now everything is so uncertain and not finished.