Tali seems to be a popular romance option... well at least from what I can tell. I get the feeling she will turn up later on like this...
I am not really certain if Tali would be my first choice for a romance. But due to her popularity among the fans, I keep thinking she will come back looking like this. What do you guys think?
Suspect that the next game will be set a number of years after the original trilogy - hence I'd say that the most likely of any potential appearances for cameo would be Liara.
Depending on the player's playthrough, all characters can be dead.
Tali isn't that popular. Tali has a rather passionate online fanbase, to be sure, but she isn't that popular outside of that. The ME3 statistics released had her near bottom of the "favorite squadmate" list and her inclusion as a squadmate in ME3 almost didn't even happen - an approach they likely would not had considered if she was THAT popular.
That being said, I'd feel rather disturbed and frankly a bit betrayed if she showed up like that. Quarians and humans cannot have children. No alien species can have children with another race. The Asari technically don't either, since Asari children carry nothing from the father and is always the 'mothers' child. So for Tali being pregnant would have very big implications that I would take great offense to as someone who prefers her as the LI to Shepard. It's quite bad enough the horrors the Citadel DLC did to her character, lets not encourage them to ruin it even more.
Squadmate as opposed to character though. She turns up depressingly late in ME3 and she's good against geth, mediocre against Cerberus, and poor against Reapers. Even as a diehard Tali fan there are more useful squadmates. Character-wise I always thought that Tali and Garrus were always up there.Tali isn't that popular. Tali has a rather passionate online fanbase, to be sure, but she isn't that popular outside of that. The ME3 statistics released had her near bottom of the "favorite squadmate" list and her inclusion as a squadmate in ME3 almost didn't even happen - an approach they likely would not had considered if she was THAT popular.
Yes to all of that.That being said, I'd feel rather disturbed and frankly a bit betrayed if she showed up like that. Quarians and humans cannot have children. No alien species can have children with another race. The Asari technically don't either, since Asari children carry nothing from the father and is always the 'mothers' child. So for Tali being pregnant would have very big implications that I would take great offense to as someone who prefers her as the LI to Shepard. It's quite bad enough the horrors the Citadel DLC did to her character, lets not encourage them to ruin it even more.
Squadmate as opposed to character though. She turns up depressingly late in ME3 and she's good against geth, mediocre against Cerberus, and poor against Reapers. Even as a diehard Tali fan there are more useful squadmates. Character-wise I always thought that Tali and Garrus were always up there.
I agree with the sentiment but wouldn't the fact that in both ME2 and ME3 she isn't introduced until you're halfway through the game be an indication of something? Though, in retrospect I suppose the same argument could be used against Liara who is all but forgotten in ME2 outside of DLC. Don't get me wrong, I love Tali and tend to save all the missions I can until I get her on the squad just to have her and Garrus tag along for the dialogue and cutscenes (I agree she isn't a great squadmate, though, especially in ME2). I've just never gotten the impression that shes all THAT popular, outside the niche community online. In the very least Bioware's handling of her doesn't seem to imply it to me in a broader general sense.
Nothing like Garrus who shows up at the practical beginning of each game and get pandered to. Him I have to agree people generally love.
Yes to all of that.
Glad to see I'm not the only one who didn't appreciate what Citadel DLC did to Tali. I seem to be the minority in this mindset. A lot of people I've talked to actually liked it. I try to avoid it. Lol.
Tali isn't that popular. Tali has a rather passionate online fanbase, to be sure, but she isn't that popular outside of that. The ME3 statistics released had her near bottom of the "favorite squadmate" list and her inclusion as a squadmate in ME3 almost didn't even happen - an approach they likely would not had considered if she was THAT popular.
That being said, I'd feel rather disturbed and frankly a bit betrayed if she showed up like that. Quarians and humans cannot have children. No alien species can have children with another race. The Asari technically don't either, since Asari children carry nothing from the father and is always the 'mothers' child. So for Tali being pregnant would have very big implications that I would take great offense to as someone who prefers her as the LI to Shepard. It's quite bad enough the horrors the Citadel DLC did to her character, lets not encourage them to ruin it even more.
What did the Citadel dlc do to ruin her? I don't remember seeing anything like that but I don't think I ever did that dlc with her as my LI.
Any way, in answer to all the stoopid "nope" gifs. I say "yes" to Tali cameos!
The "emergency induction port" thing was amusing but add in the Citadel and it makes her look like she just gets completely wasted and loses it at the first opportunity (and eating random food doesn't seem likely; as for recognising the taste of Earth herbs...). I don't completely hate it and still enjoy the party but I agree with the direction Valmar's coming from.What did the Citadel dlc do to ruin her? I don't remember seeing anything like that but I don't think I ever did that dlc with her as my LI.
What did the Citadel dlc do to ruin her? I don't remember seeing anything like that but I don't think I ever did that dlc with her as my LI.
Oh no, what have you done... You've opened up an opportunity for me to vent. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Where do I start? How about the whole thing about Shepard and the fish? Tali's never been to that sushi restaurant, as we see in the comics and lore. She was lying about all that. I can let it pass, assuming shes just doing it to tease Shepard about falling through the aquarium.
The climbing ladder scene - stops climbing to look back and shout at the enemy that "hey, thats not fair, I'm on a ladder!" To be fair, though, this isn't exclusive to Tali as all the party members suffer brief case of Ignorance for Luls here. Plus the entire DLC is nothing but whacky shenanigans better suited for fanfiction so I guess we can't be too harsh at them being silly.
Though these are just minor nictpicts and nothing I'd really hate. Then comes the actual party. Oh. My. Keelah.
Okay, I know I'm the weirdo in the room but I do not drink. I don't view it as fun and its not my idea of a party. Luckily the game lets you decide to avoid that - which I do. Yet no matter what you do, no matter what kind of party you throw, Tali gets completely shitfaced drunk and is passed out in the bathroom floor. What the ****. Getting drunk is dangerous for quarians but the first time she did it in the main story it made sense. There was the whole business with Miranda and Tali's father issues. It made sense. Now shes just getting hammered for no reason other than "lol! Tali has a omni-tattoo omg soooo funny!"
I didn't find it funny. I didn't find it funny at all. I do not appreciate them turning Tali into a damn drunk who drinks herself to the bathroom floor. That is a disgusting thing to force on her character, imo. There is also the matter of her foolishly eating cheese that could kill her. Just to avoid an awkward conversation. What? That is not Tali, who the hell is this? Tali isn't a bumbling idiot that just plops random food in her mouth. Least, not until the DLC came out and decided to make a joke out of her.
What about the fact that she wakes up so hung-over she doesn't even remember who put her suit on? The fact that Javik is potentially passed out in your bathroom a short distance from the bed (the same Javik that earlier remarks about being attracted to quarians, mind you) does not paint a pretty picture. I find it disturbing, I find the whole damn situation utterly disturbing. Whats happened to you, Tali? She is so utterly out-of-character that its like they pandered her as this clutzy drunk bimbo for no other reason then the lulz. Oh lol, Tali got drunk and had tattoos. Oh lol, Tali drank herself to the bathroom floor hahaha. Oh lol, she doesn't even remember how she got dressed. ITS SO FUNNY GUYZ!
I didn't find it funny, I found it to be disrespectful to her character and it was like it was written by some teenager in a fanfiction.
Another matter was the singing. Okay, before I comment on this let me say I don't mind her actual singing voice. I actually liked it because she doesn't sound like some all-star popstar or something, it sounds real. Not very good, mind you, but I like that. What I don't like is what shes actually singing about - that turian/quarian romance movie Fleet and Flotilla. The implications it brings up were, to me, almost more disturbing then her getting recklessly drunk (no matter what kind of party you have, mind you) and eating foods that could probably kill her.
When I saw the scene with the quarian and the turian... it went from "cool, I always wondered what this movie was about" to suddenly something pretty dark. It made me begin to doubt everything I thought I knew about Tali. Watch the video for a reminder. There are a lot of parallels about the quarian and turian in the movie and Tali x Shepard. Right down down to the lyrics of the song to the dialogue the quarian says to the turian in the movie.
"Now unmasked, I feel your skin on mine."
"I want you to see behind this mask. I want you to see who I truly am."
Now it isn't completely plagiarized but I cannot overlook the parallels. Tali's romance in ME2 was my absolute favorite because it felt so touching to me. She was adorable and sincere and it felt like a genuine connection between her and Shepard. Now though, with the new knowledge that this is her favorite film that she watched all the time as a youth... How much of what she said to Shepard was real? How much was genuine, from the heart? I thought it all was, originally. They were beautiful words and I thought they were real, from the heart. Now I don't know. Was she just living out her fantasies of a interspecies relationship, reciting lines she memorized from a movie she loved as a kid?
Before, like I said, I felt that her words were all genuine and spoken from the heart with sincerity. Now I'm not so sure. The implications of this movie and her obsession with it is rather troubling to me.
There might be more to take offense to that Reorte could mention but these were what stood out to me the most. Eating food that could kill her, getting so drunk that she passes out on the floor and doesn't remember getting dressed in the morning and the disturbing implications of her favorite movie.
I find the whole damn situation utterly disturbing. Whats happened to you, Tali? She is so utterly out-of-character that its like they pandered her as this clutzy drunk bimbo for no other reason then the lulz. Oh lol, Tali got drunk and had tattoos. Oh lol, Tali drank herself to the bathroom floor hahaha. Oh lol, she doesn't even remember how she got dressed. ITS SO FUNNY GUYZ!
I can actually respect this view. Given it closely parallels my own thoughts on Ash's drunk scene in the vanilla game.
In terms of cameos I would be all in favor of Liara or perhaps Wrex / Grunt. Maybe a Shepard VI in a museum for the lulz. As for Tali I really love her as a LI but I would be against a cameo or further "fan-fictionalization" of the character.
Oddly I don't mind her getting pregnant at some point. After all there probably needs to be more little Quarians around so having an appropriate Quarian donor for Tali wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. Having her get pregnant in any other way would be so "flat out dumb" that I wouldn't even entertain the idea in "joke fanfiction".
Oh no, what have you done... You've opened up an opportunity for me to vent. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Where do I start? How about the whole thing about Shepard and the fish? Tali's never been to that sushi restaurant, as we see in the comics and lore. She was lying about all that. I can let it pass, assuming shes just doing it to tease Shepard about falling through the aquarium.
The climbing ladder scene - stops climbing to look back and shout at the enemy that "hey, thats not fair, I'm on a ladder!" To be fair, though, this isn't exclusive to Tali as all the party members suffer brief case of Ignorance for Luls here. Plus the entire DLC is nothing but whacky shenanigans better suited for fanfiction so I guess we can't be too harsh at them being silly.
Though these are just minor nictpicts and nothing I'd really hate. Then comes the actual party. Oh. My. Keelah.
Okay, I know I'm the weirdo in the room but I do not drink. I don't view it as fun and its not my idea of a party. Luckily the game lets you decide to avoid that - which I do. Yet no matter what you do, no matter what kind of party you throw, Tali gets completely shitfaced drunk and is passed out in the bathroom floor. What the ****. Getting drunk is dangerous for quarians but the first time she did it in the main story it made sense. There was the whole business with Miranda and Tali's father issues. It made sense. Now shes just getting hammered for no reason other than "lol! Tali has a omni-tattoo omg soooo funny!"
I didn't find it funny. I didn't find it funny at all. I do not appreciate them turning Tali into a damn drunk who drinks herself to the bathroom floor. That is a disgusting thing to force on her character, imo. There is also the matter of her foolishly eating cheese that could kill her. Just to avoid an awkward conversation. What? That is not Tali, who the hell is this? Tali isn't a bumbling idiot that just plops random food in her mouth. Least, not until the DLC came out and decided to make a joke out of her.
What about the fact that she wakes up so hung-over she doesn't even remember who put her suit on? The fact that Javik is potentially passed out in your bathroom a short distance from the bed (the same Javik that earlier remarks about being attracted to quarians, mind you) does not paint a pretty picture. I find it disturbing, I find the whole damn situation utterly disturbing. Whats happened to you, Tali? She is so utterly out-of-character that its like they pandered her as this clutzy drunk bimbo for no other reason then the lulz. Oh lol, Tali got drunk and had tattoos. Oh lol, Tali drank herself to the bathroom floor hahaha. Oh lol, she doesn't even remember how she got dressed. ITS SO FUNNY GUYZ!
I didn't find it funny, I found it to be disrespectful to her character and it was like it was written by some teenager in a fanfiction.
Another matter was the singing. Okay, before I comment on this let me say I don't mind her actual singing voice. I actually liked it because she doesn't sound like some all-star popstar or something, it sounds real. Not very good, mind you, but I like that. What I don't like is what shes actually singing about - that turian/quarian romance movie Fleet and Flotilla. The implications it brings up were, to me, almost more disturbing then her getting recklessly drunk (no matter what kind of party you have, mind you) and eating foods that could probably kill her.
When I saw the scene with the quarian and the turian... it went from "cool, I always wondered what this movie was about" to suddenly something pretty dark. It made me begin to doubt everything I thought I knew about Tali. Watch the video for a reminder. There are a lot of parallels about the quarian and turian in the movie and Tali x Shepard. Right down down to the lyrics of the song to the dialogue the quarian says to the turian in the movie.
"Now unmasked, I feel your skin on mine."
"I want you to see behind this mask. I want you to see who I truly am."
Now it isn't completely plagiarized but I cannot overlook the parallels. Tali's romance in ME2 was my absolute favorite because it felt so touching to me. She was adorable and sincere and it felt like a genuine connection between her and Shepard. Now though, with the new knowledge that this is her favorite film that she watched all the time as a youth... How much of what she said to Shepard was real? How much was genuine, from the heart? I thought it all was, originally. They were beautiful words and I thought they were real, from the heart. Now I don't know. Was she just living out her fantasies of a interspecies relationship, reciting lines she memorized from a movie she loved as a kid?
Before, like I said, I felt that her words were all genuine and spoken from the heart with sincerity. Now I'm not so sure. The implications of this movie and her obsession with it is rather troubling to me.
There might be more to take offense to that Reorte could mention but these were what stood out to me the most. Eating food that could kill her, getting so drunk that she passes out on the floor and doesn't remember getting dressed in the morning and the disturbing implications of her favorite movie.
Look on the bright side. She wasn't snorting red sand off of Wrex's armor through an emergency induction port.
or was she?
Oh no, what have you done... You've opened up an opportunity for me to vent. Be afraid, be very afraid.
Where do I start? How about the whole thing about Shepard and the fish? Tali's never been to that sushi restaurant, as we see in the comics and lore. She was lying about all that. I can let it pass, assuming shes just doing it to tease Shepard about falling through the aquarium.
<snip>
Ok, i don't know about this. What does she say about the sushi place and when does she say it? I really need to play this with my Tali LI character. To be honest I don't know why I haven't, she is among my top five characters in the entire series.
I don't drink either and often find myself questioning the social custom endemic in the UK of getting absolutely wasted of a Friday night. So I'm with you on that. Having said all this, I know what it is to drink to forget.
I'm going to go with the old "she's drinking because she's young, drinking because she's afraid, drinking because her fondest hope of having a home world for her people has finally been realised at the very same time every home world of every race is about to be taken away unless the team she's on can pull a rabbit out of the hat" excuse. Seriously though, these guys are under unimaginable pressure and it's scene's like Ashley's drinking, Tali's induction port and some moments in the Citadel dlc which really hammer this point home like nowhere else in the series. That's just my take on it though.
What about the fact that she wakes up so hung-over she doesn't even remember who put her suit on? The fact that Javik is potentially passed out in your bathroom a short distance from the bed (the same Javik that earlier remarks about being attracted to quarians, mind you) does not paint a pretty picture. I find it disturbing, I find the whole damn situation utterly disturbing. Whats happened to you, Tali? She is so utterly out-of-character that its like they pandered her as this clutzy drunk bimbo for no other reason then the lulz. Oh lol, Tali got drunk and had tattoos. Oh lol, Tali drank herself to the bathroom floor hahaha. Oh lol, she doesn't even remember how she got dressed. ITS SO FUNNY GUYZ!
Yeah, I can see this as being potentially very, very wrong indeed. It's just one step away from having Javik slyly dropping a rohypnol pill into her drink, or acting as bar tender all night just to get her drunk. Very disturbing, but probably simply a coincidence, like you point out Javik may not even be there at all. Still, the subtle implication caused by this sequence of events should have been picked up on, or the handling of Tali's drunken behaviour looked at through more sensible eyes.
I can forgive her out of character behaviour though. As a non-drinker, I have found myself to be the designated driver on a few occasions which allows me to understand why she acts as she does. People aren't themselves while drunk. In the past on the rare occasions when I have drank to excess, people have told me how I become maudlin and aggressive - traits not normally associated with me.
When I saw the scene with the quarian and the turian... it went from "cool, I always wondered what this movie was about" to suddenly something pretty dark. It made me begin to doubt everything I thought I knew about Tali. Watch the video for a reminder. There are a lot of parallels about the quarian and turian in the movie and Tali x Shepard. Right down down to the lyrics of the song to the dialogue the quarian says to the turian in the movie.
"Now unmasked, I feel your skin on mine."
"I want you to see behind this mask. I want you to see who I truly am."
Now it isn't completely plagiarized but I cannot overlook the parallels. Tali's romance in ME2 was my absolute favorite because it felt so touching to me. She was adorable and sincere and it felt like a genuine connection between her and Shepard. Now though, with the new knowledge that this is her favorite film that she watched all the time as a youth... How much of what she said to Shepard was real? How much was genuine, from the heart? I thought it all was, originally. They were beautiful words and I thought they were real, from the heart. Now I don't know. Was she just living out her fantasies of a interspecies relationship, reciting lines she memorized from a movie she loved as a kid?
Before, like I said, I felt that her words were all genuine and spoken from the heart with sincerity. Now I'm not so sure. The implications of this movie and her obsession with it is rather troubling to me.
This is very interesting, my feelings are mixed. I watched the video you linked to, took your point of view into consideration.
My initial thoughts about it were how very young she comes across as. There's an innocence to her as she talks about how much she loved the film and her sleepovers with friends. Now I don't know how old she is but I think she's only two and a half years after completing her pilgrimage, which puts her at about 19 or 20 maximum, no? Shepard being in his thirties by this time and the age difference has never been more apparent than in this scene.
Onto Fleet and Flotilla and the words and their parallels with a Shep/Tali romance had me thinking as you do. Was she so influenced by this movie that it stayed with her prompting a desperate, childish desire to live it? Or did falling in love with Shepard simply prompt reminders in her brain, making the dialogue appear natural but really subliminally implanted when she was a more impressionable age?
All this leads me down two trains of thought: one is that the real Tali is the immature girl we see during the Citadel dlc and that like Bruce Wayne, she puts on a mask to appear more mature and responsible, but is instead living out a fantasy and will get bored of Shepard like any first crush.
The other is that the real Tali is the one we know and love; mature beyond her years, youngest admiral ever and a hero for her entire race, simply using this one unique opportunity to let her hair down as never before - possibly the last opportunity she'll ever have - sharing her innocent youthful memories with Shepard as a way of letting him in as never before, proving her deep love for him by revealing these memories which would normally be private.
As Legion might say "we're still forming consensus."
The song was good though, very charming.
Ok, i don't know about this. What does she say about the sushi place and when does she say it? I really need to play this with my Tali LI character. To be honest I don't know why I haven't, she is among my top five characters in the entire series.
Actually, I'm pretty sure she says it regardless of you being LI. I believe it is when everyone is in the the apartment after you escape those goons but not so far as to have the party. If I remember correctly she is standing by the giant window in the apartment looking out at the strip and if you approach her and interact she'll tell you a story about the sushi place. Again, its been a while and I'm running off memory here so I may not be 100% accurate.
She says when she visited the citadel on her pilgrimage she always wanted to go there but they wouldn't let quarians in. She promised herself though that some day she would have sushi there. Then Shepard crashed through it. That's about the jist of it. Though, like I said earlier, I'm not sure we're supposed to take her seriously. She tells the story in a rather amusing way and it seems to me that shes just making it up to tease Shepard. It has to be a lie, since the story she tells goes against the lore we know from the comics. I'm willing to assume its just teasing and overlook it but as you can probably tell I'm a bit of a stickler for lore. Lol.
I'm going to go with the old "she's drinking because she's young, drinking because she's afraid, drinking because her fondest hope of having a home world for her people has finally been realised at the very same time every home world of every race is about to be taken away unless the team she's on can pull a rabbit out of the hat" excuse. Seriously though, these guys are under unimaginable pressure and it's scene's like Ashley's drinking, Tali's induction port and some moments in the Citadel dlc which really hammer this point home like nowhere else in the series. That's just my take on it though.
That is a possible answer to the drunk stupor, sure. I'm just not satisfied with it. When she first got drunk on the Normandy the context was clear. We were given rational cause. In the Citadel DLC the only reason we're ever given for it is "for the luls". No other character got completely wasted (no drinking party) I mind you. Also interesting that Anderson just happened to have turian brandy... did Tali bring it herself or does Anderson really just keep alien drinks lying around? To be fair, I could a bit off on that - maybe others did get drunk regardless and I just don't remember. Tali definitely stands out though.
Also look at some of the "drunk on the bathroom floor lul" lines she gives us:
"Don't do that in my helmet. It just gunks up the filters.",
"Garrus? But you're with Shepard! Oh, the three of us? Well, hmm..." (if Garrus is in a relationship with Shepard)
A particular line from the wiki sums it up well:
"If Shepard and Tali are just friends, Tali can be found arms on her knees in one of the bedrooms upstairs in the morning after, nursing a hangover, regardless of the setting and barely remembering anything from the previous night."
If people want to through a party and get drunk, thats fine. I love it when the game gives us choices. I'm less bothered by Tali being drunk than I am the fact that she is ALWAYS drunk. No matter what you do she gets completely smashed on the bathroom floor. Her behavior is independent of the type of party you through.
Don't get me wrong, even if it was just an option I wouldn't be happy with it. But at least I could say Shepard pressured her into drinking with everyone else and just go with it. Besides, its not like Im forced to choose that path. As it stands though she gets drunk no matter what you do and gives you no choice in the matter. Again, for the sole purpose of "for the luls".
Yeah, I can see this as being potentially very, very wrong indeed. It's just one step away from having Javik slyly dropping a rohypnol pill into her drink, or acting as bar tender all night just to get her drunk. Very disturbing, but probably simply a coincidence, like you point out Javik may not even be there at all. Still, the subtle implication caused by this sequence of events should have been picked up on, or the handling of Tali's drunken behaviour looked at through more sensible eyes.
I can forgive her out of character behaviour though. As a non-drinker, I have found myself to be the designated driver on a few occasions which allows me to understand why she acts as she does. People aren't themselves while drunk. In the past on the rare occasions when I have drank to excess, people have told me how I become maudlin and aggressive - traits not normally associated with me.
Yeah I'm not saying Javik really did anything. Its just the situation is unsettling. Theres just so much 'wrong' with that scene.
I understand her behavior changing if she is drunk, its not really that I have a problem with. It's that she gets drunk in the first place. THAT is what is out of character. What we do when we're drunk I understand is not necessarily meant to be 'in-character'. It is the fact that no matter what she gets completely hammered drunk and passes out on the bathroom floor that really bothers me.
When I point out the things she says/does while drunk I don't really mean it necessarily as a "this is ooc" way, because she is drunk and that gives some leeway, but rather as elaboration on why the only reason she is FORCED to be drunk is seemingly so that she can act this way. They make her drunk for the luls and that's it. They're not even subtle about it. No "eeeemergency induction port" but rather "don't do that in my helmet, ooo a threesome hmm".
I just find the whole thing to be disrespectful to one of my favorite characters in the series and wish they had handled it better instead of parading her around like some drunk bimbo whos getting tattoos, eating alien food, getting complete wasted and talking about gunking up her helmet and having interspecies threesomes. She deserved better than that. Though I wear my bias on my sleeves, I romance Tali so I'm probably more sensitive to their disturbing portrayal of her than others who may not care one way or another. Though, imo, the Citadel DLC is meant to give more happy content with your LI. I don't feel like I got that. It just made me feel uncomfortable and left me questioning the integrity of the character. Which all stems back to them FORCING her to be drunk.
Again, would be fine if it was just an option like it is for everyone else. But no, she HAS to be drunk for luls.
This is very interesting, my feelings are mixed. I watched the video you linked to, took your point of view into consideration.
My initial thoughts about it were how very young she comes across as. There's an innocence to her as she talks about how much she loved the film and her sleepovers with friends. Now I don't know how old she is but I think she's only two and a half years after completing her pilgrimage, which puts her at about 19 or 20 maximum, no? Shepard being in his thirties by this time and the age difference has never been more apparent than in this scene.
Shepard is 32 (if you count the two years dead) and Tali is 25. I shouldn't know this so readily, should I?
Onto Fleet and Flotilla and the words and their parallels with a Shep/Tali romance had me thinking as you do. Was she so influenced by this movie that it stayed with her prompting a desperate, childish desire to live it? Or did falling in love with Shepard simply prompt reminders in her brain, making the dialogue appear natural but really subliminally implanted when she was a more impressionable age?
All this leads me down two trains of thought: one is that the real Tali is the immature girl we see during the Citadel dlc and that like Bruce Wayne, she puts on a mask to appear more mature and responsible, but is instead living out a fantasy and will get bored of Shepard like any first crush.
The other is that the real Tali is the one we know and love; mature beyond her years, youngest admiral ever and a hero for her entire race, simply using this one unique opportunity to let her hair down as never before - possibly the last opportunity she'll ever have - sharing her innocent youthful memories with Shepard as a way of letting him in as never before, proving her deep love for him by revealing these memories which would normally be private.
Clearly I'm preferring the second option - I mean I still romance her regardless so its not like Citadel DLC made me give up on that. She's still my favorite romance. I just would had rather this not even be a thing to speculate about. It was easily avoidable. She could even still sing and watch a movie and reveal all this private stuff. Just edit it a bit so it doesn't have so many parallels. One too many for my book, though again I'm bias here. I try my best to stay objective on things and for the most part I think I do a good job but the issue with Tali is that I can't be sure when I am being objective and when I'm letting my personal feelings influence my thoughts. It's a slippery slope.
For example, what you bring up in that (the second option) is not something I really thought of. I was too focused on how much I dislike the whole thing and how uncomfortable it made me feel that it I didn't really see there were other ways to view it. Still, even now with that option presented to me I still don't feel any better about the way they handled her in the DLC. I'm just now not sure how much of it is personal and how much of it is objective. At least I'm able to concede the possibility that I'm too persuaded by personal feelings, even if I don't actually change my opinion on it.
So I just read the Homeworlds series of comics (isn't Garrus' one great? and they say Mac Walters is a bad writer...) so now I know what you're referring to when you say this:
Where do I start? How about the whole thing about Shepard and the fish? Tali's never been to that sushi restaurant, as we see in the comics and lore. She was lying about all that. I can let it pass, assuming shes just doing it to tease Shepard about falling through the aquarium.
To be fair the comic doesn't represent the passage of time to any great accuracy. There could be room for whatever Tali claims to have happened in that sushi place (I still haven't heard it) between her killing Saren's agent and the volus setting up a meeting with Fist.
Someone slept through Biology...
Pro tip: Wholly unrelated species cannot reproduce with each other.
So I just read the Homeworlds series of comics (isn't Garrus' one great? and they say Mac Walters is a bad writer...) so now I know what you're referring to when you say this:
To be fair the comic doesn't represent the passage of time to any great accuracy. There could be room for whatever Tali claims to have happened in that sushi place (I still haven't heard it) between her killing Saren's agent and the volus setting up a meeting with Fist.
Meh. I begrudgingly accept this to be true. They were vague enough with time to allow it as a possibility, I guess. Meh. I still don't see it as reasonable though. Hunted by assassins, seeking protection, wounded... lets use this time to explore the citadel and fantasize about sushi joints. I'll concede that we don't know for sure the passage of time but I'd argue that its it at least implies the events of the comic lead up to her being out at the wards waiting for the Shadow Broker's men. In the very least it doesn't seem consistent with the peril she was in at the time to have her sight-seeing on the citadel.
Also, AH HA! I found the link. Like an idiot I never thought to look for "Tali Sushi" in youtube. I was looking for "Tali Citadel chat" and ect. I'm such a dolt sometimes. Enjoy!
If that's supposed to be Shepard's baby, that's physically impossible.
More importantly though - ewww...
It is a good thing most of the people who got the Romance forum locked have moved on I guess.
Tali rant
That was basically spot on, although I disagree with a few things.
Tali was an interesting case. One of the few squadmates that is available in all three games (really only Garrus also has that distinction, more in a minute). She undergoes drastic character development in between ME1 and ME2.
Lest we forget, in ME1 she was largely a walking codex. Any conversation was largely just to give Shepard exposition on the Quarians and the Geth. There is just a little bit about her own background, and some small talk about being homesick leading into more discussion about the Quarians. That is her role in ME1. However, she happens to be one of the most useful squadmates for the combat portions of the game. Can unlock any crate and she is the most powerful tech character save Shepard. She was not romanceable, and when I played the game before ME2 I could not imagine wanting to romance her (well in the gaming sense anyway, that leads into another discussion which is outside the scope of this post or thread). She was a young adult coming of age, that was why she was on her pilgrimage. This is in contrast to practically everyone on SR1 with the possible exception of Liara, who is the inexperienced young alien lover of the game.
Jump ahead 2 years and Tali has had a retool. AFAIK Tali was supposed to be in ME2 all along, but Garrus was not. Archangel was supposed to be a new Turian that you meet, but since Garrus was so popular he was switched into that role. Anyway the devs did say that Tali became romanceable because they heard from a bunch of the players that they wished she was in ME1. Her romance was ok, even if some elements were probably a retread of ME1 Liara's romance, but I am not entirely sure I agree that the Citadel scene with Fleet and Flotilla damages the ME2 romance. Even within the context of just ME1 and ME2 there should have been some alarm bells that this may have been a prolonged adolescent crush on the part of Tali, or even the possibility that she was looking for a replacement for her father (which isn't exactly unique among LI's through the series). She deflects with a bit of sarcasm, but recall she practically spells it out for Shepard with the "young girl rescued by a dashing commander" line.
As far as Citadel (or even post Horizon) is concerned, turning Tali into a binge drinker wasn't a bit of writing reserved for Tali. Recall that Ash is passed out in Starboard Observation. Why would that be any more in character for Ash than for Tali? I think this was just a clumsy way to show how much stress had affected the crew. There were a lot of "head-scratchers" in ME3 with regard to squadmate character development, so it wasn't as if Tali was singled out, she was just used more for comedy relief in her scenes.
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