223 réponses à ce sujet

[Rusted Cage]

I getcha. I like to pretend the Consort is an ardat yakshi.... lol

Ha, my Shepard hit that and survived
 

prefer not having Shepard implanted with Reaper tech because I can then explain how Destroy beam actually works instead of calling it space magic that targets all the technology out there. The only loose end is Shepard not reacting to the Catalyst's appearance which I headcanon as Shepard just being smart

Control doesn't make sense either, might as well stick with Refuse. "I won't let fear compromise who I am"

 

I dunno, I can't ignore the fact that the Catalyst is seemingly able to read Shepard's mind. Take that little fact away and I'm with you 100%

[Vazgen]

Ha, my Shepard hit that and survived
 

I dunno, I can't ignore the fact that the Catalyst is seemingly able to read Shepard's mind. Take that little fact away and I'm with you 100%

If you remove that, then how do you explain shooting the tube? Or you think that the Catalyst is capable of transferring images into Shepard's mind but can't extract images from there? Don't forget that there was this whole standoff with TIM when they could probe Shepard's mind for information.

[Rusted Cage]

If you remove that, then how do you explain shooting the tube? Or you think that the Catalyst is capable of transferring images into Shepard's mind but can't extract images from there? Don't forget that there was this whole standoff with TIM when they could probe Shepard's mind for information.

Shooting the tube? Easy. It's a Reaper device (or the creation of the Reapers creator) and we know from destroying the Reaper terminator in ME 2 that their technology is buit around important tubes

 

Mys issue with the implanting and extracting info from Shepard's mind: Don't forget that there was this whole standoff with TIM when they could probe Shepard's mind for information. You'll have to remind me, I seem to have a block preventing me from answering that question. Possibly a self imposed mental block...

If I accept that the Catalyst can enter Shep's mind without indoctrinating him it means I have to accept another piece of deus ex machina. For things to make sense for me I need to see them or have them referenced earlier in the saga. The Catalyst as a device I'm comfortable with because it can be argued Liara alluded to it in ME2, but the powers it has still raise questions for me.

[GalacticWolf5]

Shooting the tube? Easy. It's a Reaper device (or the creation of the Reapers creator) and we know from destroying the Reaper terminator in ME 2 that their technology is buit around important tubes

The Crucible wasn't created by the Reapers nor by the Leviathans.....

[Rusted Cage]

The Crucible wasn't created by the Reapers nor by the Leviathans.....

I guess you're right. I thought that whole scene played out in a secret part of the citadel and the tube only connects to the Crucible.

[Vazgen]

 

Shooting the tube? Easy. It's a Reaper device (or the creation of the Reapers creator) and we know from destroying the Reaper terminator in ME 2 that their technology is buit around important tubes 

This assumes that Shepard is fine with the notion that shooting a tube will somehow kill all the Reapers. It doesn't work well with my smart Shepard roleplay lol

 

Indoctrination is a subtle process. One does not become indoctrinated in a few minutes. It is also connected to the Reaper technology that is responsible for indoctrination. Notice how Arca Monolith destruction stopped (IMO only paused) Jack Harper's indoctrination. Something like that probably happened with the Derelict Reaper, Object Rho and Shepard. 

 

The Catalyst appears as a kid. Why does it do that? What does it gain from doing so? I see only one plausible explanation - appearing as a kid helps to better affect Shepard emotionally than if it was, say, an arbitrary hologram. 

 

Javik senses fear, anxiety and distress in Shepard by touching him. Why can't a central Reaper intelligence sense these as well? And when it does, what image does Shepard's mind associate with those? The kid from Vancouver. 

[Rusted Cage]

 

 

This assumes that Shepard is fine with the notion that shooting a tube will somehow kill all the Reapers. It doesn't work well with my smart Shepard roleplay lol

 

Indoctrination is a subtle process. One does not become indoctrinated in a few minutes. It is also connected to the Reaper technology that is responsible for indoctrination. Notice how Arca Monolith destruction stopped (IMO only paused) Jack Harper's indoctrination. Something like that probably happened with the Derelict Reaper, Object Rho and Shepard. 

 

The Catalyst appears as a kid. Why does it do that? What does it gain from doing so? I see only one plausible explanation - appearing as a kid helps to better affect Shepard emotionally than if it was, say, an arbitrary hologram. 

 

Javik senses fear, anxiety and distress in Shepard by touching him. Why can't a central Reaper intelligence sense these as well? And when it does, what image does Shepard's mind associate with those? The kid from Vancouver. 

 

Alright, that works for me, I like it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

 

The Catalyst appears as a kid. Why does it do that? What does it gain from doing so? I see only one plausible explanation - appearing as a kid helps to better affect Shepard emotionally than if it was, say, an arbitrary hologram. 

 

The problem I have with this is the Catalyst's motives in using Shepard. He says he can't activate the Crucible (or something like that) but that doesn't seem to be the case. If it controls the Reapers, can't it order a husk to shoot a tube or chuck an organic into a beam of light? If it wants a specific option chosen it should just do it itself.

 

Or it actually thinks Shepard is the best person to make the decision, in which case why would he try to emotionally affect Shepard? For what purpose?

[Valmar]

You've piqued my curiosity with "fans of Liara would not appreciate my particular view..." So count me in for any such discussions.

 

I'll take the initiative and start of the chat convo then since we're all on board. See what kind of crazy shenanigans we can toss together.

 

 

 

I'm probably reading too much into some of the "chosen one" themes which are subtly present, but I remember after my first playthrough before Leviathan came out I left the game with a feeling that Shepard is a special individual "chosen" somehow by the galaxy. Now I'm thinking about it, I reckon this idea was sparked in my brain by Vendetta's talk about "patterns" and Javik's Cosmic Imperative and racial exemplar talks, not to mention the final Stargazer scene about "the Shepard". Of course, a first playthrough is more about emotion than a cerebral examination and later content such as the EC and Leviathan long since cleared those Vendetta concepts up. Nevertheless, they linger in my mind in some nebulous form.

 

 

Well even the Leviathan seems to speculate there is something 'special' about Shepard.

"You are an anormaly"

"Your victories are more than a product of chance."

 

I kinda like to think that last line is foreshadowing that Shepard was destined to finish the reapers. That it was fate deeming he be 'the one'. The reapers spent eons experimenting with the galaxy and now the galaxy is fighting back. Of course, refusal kills that little fantasy. Still its fun into stuff from time to time.

 

 

You and Vazgen aren't helping me any as much as I'm enjoying it So now I can't fall back on the Shepard is indoctrinated because the IT is false, I can't fall back on Shepard being implanted by Reaper Tech which is why he got hit by the Destroy beam, so what am I left with? A Catalyst who appears in a form only present in Shepard's mind with no explanation as to how it is able to do this; and a Destroy beam which targets "technology you rely on" as well as Synthetic life including Shepard.

 

Well any of that could work if you take a few liberties with your headcanon. If people get more satisfaction and enjoyment from headcanoning IT, so be it. I played a few "IT" headcanon playthroughs and thought it was pretty entertaining. Whatever floats your boat. Long as you remember where the fanfiction begins and the canon ends, if that makes sense.

 

Though, again, and I know Vaz sees it differently but you could just assume the starbrat is not literally, in-lore meant to be the same kid. If you assume its just a reused but modified art asset then you don't have  the problem of "how is it the kid from Shepards dream?"

 

It's only a problem if you allow it to be a problem.

 

Vaz thinks it is the kid and the reason Shepard says nothing is because he's smart. That is a valid thought, nothing wrong with it. If thats how you want to see it then thats fine, it isn't really contradicted. I just don't think it is the kid because Shepard doesn't mention it. I don't give Shepard the 'smart' pass because of how stupid Shepard has been throughout the entire ending.

 

Also the Leviathan DLC where Shepard, logically, should realize he isn't really speaking to Ann because he's in a mech deep under the water of some alien planet. Yet he stills takes instant notice to the Leviathan taking form of Ann and refers to it. He doesn't just silently formulate that "oh, I see, you're using an image taken from my mind, you're not literally Ann."

 

In the mission where Shepard enters the Geth Consensus he should really be able to understand that the world is being made into something he could understand and yet he's stumped by it and mentions his confusion. He actually had to get it clarified. I'm lenient on this though since, in all fairness, the geth consensus isn't really 'normal'.

 

At any rate it seems odd to me that Shepard is confused and ignorant about these very similar events and makes a point to remark on it yet he doesn't say ANYTHING about the kid. The kid is a far bigger deal than Ann Bryson. This isn't just some scientist he met earlier that week. The starbrat is the form of the child that has been haunting Shepard's dreams since the beginning of the war and has been making it difficult to sleep. The child should be far more significant to Shepard than Ann yet he never remarks or bat an eyelash to the catalyst's form. That tells me that it isn't MEANT to be the exact same kid.

 

They not only took efforts to distort his image they even distort his voice by overlaying it with male and female Shepard's voice actors.

 

 

 

Ha, my Shepard hit that and survived
 

I dunno, I can't ignore the fact that the Catalyst is seemingly able to read Shepard's mind. Take that little fact away and I'm with you 100%

 

Ah but did you actually see them embrace eternity? There's no reason you couldn't sleep with an AY. They only kill you when they embrace eternity. We saw handprints against glass.

 

You don't have to assume the cataylst can read Shepard's mind, though. The only thing that points to that is if the form the catalyst takes is LITERALLY the same kid from Shepard's dreams. Assume otherwise and you no longer have any reason to assume Shepard's mind is being read by anything.

 

 

If you remove that, then how do you explain shooting the tube? Or you think that the Catalyst is capable of transferring images into Shepard's mind but can't extract images from there? Don't forget that there was this whole standoff with TIM when they could probe Shepard's mind for information.

 

Again we should keep in mind the subtle differences between reaper indoctrination. Placing images in someones head is not the same as taking images out. Just because you can send signals and information into someones mind doesn't necessarily mean you have free range to take information. Subtle signal-based indoctrination turns us into receivers where as the extreme nanite variation turns us into both receivers and transmitters.

 

For perhaps a little context on the difference between transmitting and receiving look at the Asari. Liara is able to rather calmly and pleasantly share one of her memories with Shepard. Yet when shes taking memories out of Shepard's head it takes a toll on her.

 

Also look at the Leviathans. When they are directly controlling Ann, making her both a receiver and a transmitter, the toll it puts on her can practically fry her mind if she stays connected too long. Yet the ones at the research facility who are just mindlessly following the orders given to them but not directly controlled have been able to endure being receivers of the signal for years. This a flaw with both reaper indoctrination and leviathanation. The more control you exert on them the less useful they become. You fry them out. Tell them what to do and leave them to do it and they can last for decades.

 

Finally look at the collectors themselves. Typically a collector drone just follows the orders given to it. Yet when direct control is taken, which by its very nature would require turning it into both a receiver and transmitter, the effect it has on their body is extreme.

 

For the reapers to be able to draw an image from Shepard's mind, based on what we know about their process of indoctrination, would require him to have reaper nanites. These are the most extreme variation of indoctrination and if he was under this level of control then they would not need to do anything - Shepard would be theirs. No hope for that. Which clearly cannot be the case because the control ending.

 

"He couldn't control us, because we already controlled him." Shepard isn't being controlled by the reapers yet for them to get the image from his head they'd have to be indoctrinating him with nanites to read his mind. In which case Shepard couldn't control them. 

 

 

 

Indoctrination is a subtle process. One does not become indoctrinated in a few minutes. It is also connected to the Reaper technology that is responsible for indoctrination. Notice how Arca Monolith destruction stopped (IMO only paused) Jack Harper's indoctrination. 

 

Did it though? The protheans VI mentions there is a pattern that persists in every cycle. In their own cycle they had their own version of Cerberus where they argued the reapers should be controlled, not destroyed. They were indoctrinated. The Illusive Man was working according to their plans all along, he was this cycles agent for causing inner-conflict with the organics and fighting for control of the reapers, just like in cycles since passed.

 

Deep stuff, man.

 

 

 

The problem I have with this is the Catalyst's motives in using Shepard. He says he can't activate the Crucible (or something like that) but that doesn't seem to be the case. If it Control the Reapers can't it order a husk to shoot a tube or chuck an organic into a beam of light. If it wants a specific option chosen it should just do it itself.

 

Or it actually things Shepard is the best person to make the decision, in which case why would he try to emotionally affect Shepard? For what purpose?

 

Good points. More reason to assume it isn't meant to be taken literally as the same kid but rather just a reused modified art asset.

[Vazgen]

@ImaginaryMatter

I'll give you one reason - programming security. Each option results in the intelligence ceasing to be what it was before. And if there are shackles that prevent it from happening, it would not be able to use the Crucible on its own. That's why it needs someone else to do it and that person should not be indoctrinated since it violates the rules. So it uses the elevator and tries to emotionally manipulate Shepard into choosing Synthesis. Why does it mention the other options at all? Because they all solve the conflict. Synthesis just happens to be the best from Reaper perspective and thus it tries to sway Shepard into picking it.

@Valmar
Regarding those two sequences where Shepard does question the appearance of Leviathan, quarians etc. Notice how the surroundings are clearly unnatural in both of those cases. While in the ending it's a natural transition to the Crucible docking port and Shepard can see the battle, the Crucible etc.
As for TIM's indoctrination, he clearly acts against the Reapers in Mass Effect 2. My guess is that the indoctrination from Arca Monolith had not yet fully manifested and TIM could act against the Reapers. But when he hanged a Reaper corpse next to his cabinet, the link was reestablished and TIM had fallen under the Reaper control in a few months.

[Valmar]

@ImaginaryMatter

I'll give you one reason - programming security. Each option results in the intelligence ceasing to be what it was before. And if there are shackles that prevent it from happening, it would not be able to use the Crucible on its own. That's why it needs someone else to do it and that person should not be indoctrinated since it violates the rules. So it uses the elevator and tries to emotionally manipulate Shepard into choosing Synthesis. Why does it mention the other options at all? Because they all solve the conflict. Synthesis just happens to be the best from Reaper perspective and thus it tries to sway Shepard into picking it.
 

 

That's pretty good. I'm not convinced it is the child but this is at least a decent explanation as to why it gives Shepard a choice at all rather than just, you know, leaving him to bleed out beside Anderson.

 

 

@Valmar
Regarding those two sequences where Shepard does question the appearance of Leviathan, quarians etc. Notice how the surroundings are clearly unnatural in both of those cases. While in the ending it's a natural transition to the Crucible docking port and Shepard can see the battle, the Crucible etc.

 

The unnatural surrounding didn't keep Shepard from actually think it was Ann. I believe what he says is like "Ann? Where are we?" He acknowledged it was the form of Ann and actually believed it was really her rather than just silently piecing it together and understanding it wasn't real. The fact that the catalyst surrounding is more set in reality should be a better reason why Shepard would remark on its form. Even when the surroundings made it obvious that it wasn't real Shepard still believed it was Ann and asked her a question.

 

Actually, imo, the fact that the situations before were so obviously unnatural makes its all the more strange that he comments on them. You're deep under the sea in a mech suit, suddenly transported somewhere with Ann who could be brain dead. Yet Shepard is 'smart' enough to actually think its her. In the geth consensus you're obviously in a virtual world yet he needs to be told that its just an interpretation to make it easier for his mind to understand. Did anyone of us, other than Shepard, really need to be told that to realize what was going on?

 

The catalyst isn't in a strange dreamworld or geth virtual world. Its real. Yet it takes the form of the kid haunting Shepard's dreams for months. There is a stark contrast between something weird happening in a obviously fake world and something weird happening in the real world. He felt it worthwhile to remark about it with Leviathan and Legion but when it comes to the kid he's completely mute. It doesn't fit for me.

 

 

As for TIM's indoctrination, he clearly acts against the Reapers in Mass Effect 2. My guess is that the indoctrination from Arca Monolith had not yet fully manifested and TIM could act against the Reapers. But when he hanged a Reaper corpse next to his cabinet, the link was reestablished and TIM had fallen under the Reaper control in a few months.

 

This was actually the bases of my entire argument against the Illusive Man being indoctrinated that early on. I was quite stubborn on this too, took a while for me to understand it. You have to grasp the nature of reaper indoctrination and the variants it has to come to grips with the idea.  I'll see if I can't track down the topic tomorrow so you can see the arguments that persuaded me over.

[themikefest]

The Crucible wasn't created by the Reapers nor by the Leviathans.....

You do not know them and there's not enough time to explain it.

[ImaginaryMatter]

@ImaginaryMatter

I'll give you one reason - programming security. Each option results in the intelligence ceasing to be what it was before. And if there are shackles that prevent it from happening, it would not be able to use the Crucible on its own. That's why it needs someone else to do it and that person should not be indoctrinated since it violates the rules. So it uses the elevator and tries to emotionally manipulate Shepard into choosing Synthesis. Why does it mention the other options at all? Because they all solve the conflict. Synthesis just happens to be the best from Reaper perspective and thus it tries to sway Shepard into picking it.

 

That doesn't really make sense though. It's programming was to insure the survival of organic life, not itself. It acknowledges that's the Reaper solution won't work anymore and now has access to Synthesis, the one thing that can end the conflict -- regardless of whether or not the Catalyst is there. Assuming shackles are in place it can't willingly choose an option itself but can allow someone else to do so while enabling them? Technically, they're different as one is more direct but who would program such a thing? Like did the Leviathan's really put that distinction in there but not a fail safe to protect themselves or parameters on what counts as life? (Since the Leviathan's definitions and the Catalyst's are quite different).

 

As for the other options, destroy doesn't really solve the problem, it acknowledges that organics will develop new Synthetics and return 'chaos'. It doesn't say anything about the organic/synthetic relationship changing, such that now Synthetics won't inevitably destroy all organics now. Control is similar, since Shepalyst, a synthetic, is an unknown. The Catalyst just seems to offer them because they are a function of the Crucible. Like at no point does any one bring up the option of the Reapers just leaving or destroying themselves, which seem just as valid as Destroy, if not more so.

[Alamar2078]

I think, as a function of control, that the Reapers just leaving or destroying themselves is assumed.  It doesn't turn out that way in the EC but I believe the writers wouldn't mind some head-canon if that's what you want to do after selecting control.

[Rusted Cage]

<snip>

 

Ah but did you actually see them embrace eternity? There's no reason you couldn't sleep with an AY. They only kill you when they embrace eternity. We saw handprints against glass.

<snip>

 

 

Did it though? The protheans VI mentions there is a pattern that persists in every cycle. In their own cycle they had their own version of Cerberus where they argued the reapers should be controlled, not destroyed. They were indoctrinated. The Illusive Man was working according to their plans all along, he was this cycles agent for causing inner-conflict with the organics and fighting for control of the reapers, just like in cycles since passed.

 

Deep stuff, man.

 

 

 

 

Good points. More reason to assume it isn't meant to be taken literally as the same kid but rather just a reused modified art asset.

I was under the impression that Ardat-Yakshi have a hard time controlling their passion, the euphoric rush they get from melding which kills the mate becomes addictive to them. Seeing as how the consort probably gets intimate on a regular basis I'd expect there to be a huge body count by now.

That said, it seems the codex isn't 100% reliable when it comes to AY, which leads to the possibility that there are many asari with the disorder but only a few extreme cases warrant their harsh treatment. So maybe an asari could be diagnosed as a type one Ardat-Yakshi and not have any negative side effects at all.

 

Deep stuff indeed. If history repeats itself, I think we'll be seeing this again.

[Vazgen]

That doesn't really make sense though. It's programming was to insure the survival of organic life, not itself. It acknowledges that's the Reaper solution won't work anymore and now has access to Synthesis, the one thing that can end the conflict -- regardless of whether or not the Catalyst is there. Assuming shackles are in place it can't willingly choose an option itself but can allow someone else to do so while enabling them? Technically, they're different as one is more direct but who would program such a thing? Like did the Leviathan's really put that distinction in there but not a fail safe to protect themselves or parameters on what counts as life? (Since the Leviathan's definitions and the Catalyst's are quite different).

As for the other options, destroy doesn't really solve the problem, it acknowledges that organics will develop new Synthetics and return 'chaos'. It doesn't say anything about the organic/synthetic relationship changing, such that now Synthetics won't inevitably destroy all organics now. Control is similar, since Shepalyst, a synthetic, is an unknown. The Catalyst just seems to offer them because they are a function of the Crucible. Like at no point does any one bring up the optionu of the Reapers just leaving or destroying themselves, which seem just as valid as Destroy, if not more so.

The Catalyst can't destroy himself or alter its purpose. So it can't really give organics a full access to the Crucible plans, allow them to dock it and make a decision. It must resist such attempts. That's why you need a united fleet of all races to dock it. TIM was the last protection layer it had. After Shepard overcomes all those obstacles there is nothing else it can do. Almost nothing. I believe that Reaper destruction can be activated from the "best seats in the house" room (Shepard tries to do that before collapsing). So the intelligence brings Shepard to the Crucible chamber and as a last resort tries to emotionally manipulate him into choosing something other than Destroy (which is Shepard's original goal and Crucible's intended function so it can't really avoid mentioning it without showing its true face). It can't change itself, someone else must overcome its resistance and choose a new solution.
About Leviathans, how can you define life so it's understandable for a machine's logical thinking? Leviathans should not have created the intelligence in the first place.
Destroy is a solution albeit temporary. That's why it advises against that. Control is also a solution, a variation of the old harvest with Sheplyst overseeing the Reapers instead. Synthesis is the new solution, the one that removes the problem entirely. No wonder it tries to sway Shepard into choosing it.

All this has a bunch of assumptions and headcanon, so it obviously isn't the ultimate answer. I find it plausible enough to not break immersion for me.

[Valmar]

I was under the impression that Ardat-Yakshi have a hard time controlling their passion, the euphoric rush they get from melding which kills the mate becomes addictive to them. Seeing as how the consort probably gets intimate on a regular basis I'd expect there to be a huge body count by now.

That said, it seems the codex isn't 100% reliable when it comes to AY, which leads to the possibility that there are many asari with the disorder but only a few extreme cases warrant their harsh treatment. So maybe an asari could be diagnosed as a type one Ardat-Yakshi and not have any negative side effects at all.

 

Deep stuff indeed. If history repeats itself, I think we'll be seeing this again.

 

Yeah, thats true. But its all relative. Asari don't necessarily have the same definition of sex that we would. They could have 'sex' the same way us humans do without ever embracing eternity. An AY could still have what we would perceive as sex without killing their partner. The only thing that kills them is when they embrace eternity - something we humans should know by now is not required for sex.

 

We've never seen her embrace eternity. We don't know of any children she has, which by Asari standards is a bit odd given her age and wisdom, which I again assume are significant given the prestige she receives. She also isn't solely a prostitute, not everyone comes for sex. She provides comfort in many ways. Plus look at how all those around her worship her. They view her with such awe and wonder. They speak about her with such reverence. Sound familiar? 

[KrrKs]

 

Shooting the tube? Easy. It's a Reaper device (or the creation of the Reapers creator) and we know from destroying the Reaper terminator in ME 2 that their technology is buit around important tubes

The Crucible wasn't created by the Reapers nor by the Leviathans.....

I guess you're right. I thought that whole scene played out in a secret part of the citadel and the tube only connects to the Crucible.

The tube (and the whole decision 'chamber') is part of the citadel. It's located on the underside of the tower.

The crucible is everything 'above' it, from where the beam emanates.

 

Happy new year, btw!

[Kabooooom]

Brilliant insight in that post, love it! I urge you to start a topic or resurrect mine because I have questions, so many questions.... .

Thanks . Maybe ill start a new topic soon, since there is some interest. But, you could also just shoot me a PM too if you wanna ask me anything. I'm not super great about checking them often...but ill respond as soon as I do.

[ImaginaryMatter]

The Catalyst can't destroy himself or alter its purpose. So it can't really give organics a full access to the Crucible plans, allow them to dock it and make a decision. It must resist such attempts. That's why you need a united fleet of all races to dock it. TIM was the last protection layer it had. After Shepard overcomes all those obstacles there is nothing else it can do. Almost nothing. I believe that Reaper destruction can be activated from the "best seats in the house" room (Shepard tries to do that before collapsing). So the intelligence brings Shepard to the Crucible chamber and as a last resort tries to emotionally manipulate him into choosing something other than Destroy (which is Shepard's original goal and Crucible's intended function so it can't really avoid mentioning it without showing its true face). It can't change itself, someone else must overcome its resistance and choose a new solution.
About Leviathans, how can you define life so it's understandable for a machine's logical thinking? Leviathans should not have created the intelligence in the first place.
Destroy is a solution albeit temporary. That's why it advises against that. Control is also a solution, a variation of the old harvest with Sheplyst overseeing the Reapers instead. Synthesis is the new solution, the one that removes the problem entirely. No wonder it tries to sway Shepard into choosing it.

All this has a bunch of assumptions and headcanon, so it obviously isn't the ultimate answer. I find it plausible enough to not break immersion for me.

 

As for the definition of life the Geth, also logical beings, have a very different perspective on life than the Catalyst; valuing things like self determination while the Catalyst doesn't. At the very least if the Leviathan's can program stuff like this resistance they can lay down some parameters about life. For example, the Leviathan's decided to build the thing because AI were bumping off their sources of tribute. In this case life would depend on the Leviathan's existing in a state where they can collect tribute and a state where the other races could pay it, states that the Reapers don't satisfy.

[Vazgen]

As for the definition of life the Geth, also logical beings, have a very different perspective on life than the Catalyst; valuing things like self determination while the Catalyst doesn't. At the very least if the Leviathan's can program stuff like this resistance they can lay down some parameters about life. For example, the Leviathan's decided to build the thing because AI were bumping off their sources of tribute. In this case life would depend on the Leviathan's existing in a state where they can collect tribute and a state where the other races could pay it, states that the Reapers don't satisfy.

I don't think the Leviathans did the programming themselves. They didn't strike me as tech-oriented in their appearance I think they tasked lesser races with this and this opens quite a few possibilites for mistakes. Too tight control and subjects experience neural degradation and overlook some loopholes that AI took advantage of. Too loose control and there might even be people who wanted to rebel against the Leviathans and tried to use the AI for that.

Gerh were building their own future, yes, but why is that an indication of life? I don't consider geth to be alive, even after Reaper upgrades. Just as I don't consider EDI to be alive. Only Synthesis makes them such IMO (so they never get the chance in my playthroughs).

[ImaginaryMatter]

I don't think the Leviathans did the programming themselves. They didn't strike me as tech-oriented in their appearance I think they tasked lesser races with this and this opens quite a few possibilites for mistakes. Too tight control and subjects experience neural degradation and overlook some loopholes that AI took advantage of. Too loose control and there might even be people who wanted to rebel against the Leviathans and tried to use the AI for that.

Gerh were building their own future, yes, but why is that an indication of life? I don't consider geth to be alive, even after Reaper upgrades. Just as I don't consider EDI to be alive. Only Synthesis makes them such IMO (so they never get the chance in my playthroughs).

 

That certainly is true. You never know with the Leviathans.

 

Definitely don't want to get into a 'what is life' argument.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The Crucible was pulled out of the hind quarters of Bioware writers. It would take a while for the Catalyst to explain to Shepard that none of this is real and that she's just inside a video game.

[Autoola]

I think the video is more an interpretation than an explanation. Like Valmar said, the game already explains (most of?) the ending. Not at first sight, but after replaying the trilogy, reading in forums and the wiki, buying DLC, throwing away your own expectations and interpretations, playing the game again... Like the cipher at Feros: it will take time for your mind to process this information.

It would be funny: a developer needs a story and says "Why not making a video game based on the Book of Revelations?" Mass Effect can be played with religious background and without. There are many references (Eden Prime, Lazarus project, Eve/Bakara) to the bible and it is very interesting that every alien species have a religion (I guess this is a fair assumption). But our society is based on Christianity and so it´s less a try to do missionary work and more like using an old saying, imo.

Nevertheless a nice video.

 

 

 

[WizzyWarlock]

I've said in another thread, but I think the whole kid, exploding tubes and electro-shock control devices were all just images inside Shepards head. Think about it. How would the Leviathans even be able to use the device? They're huge in comparison to Shepard, yet the electro-shock device has hand holds for human sized creatures. The Leviathans and Reapers have mental control, so my personal interpretation is that Shepard is still on earth, standing in the beam, controlling the Crucible mentally. Everything that happens from when he 'supposedly' flies up the tube is all in his head.

 

First the meeting with Anderson and The Illusive Man are Harbingers further attempts to indoctrinate him, then when that passes his mind enters the control console and Harbinger again tries to influence his decisions, wanting him to pick Control or Synthesis, and guiding him away from Destruction. If you pick Destruction and have enough of a rating, Shepard takes that breath.. and where is he? Still at the base of the beam. Take a long look at the approach to the beam, examine the surroundings, then look at the rubble that Shepard is lying in, especially some of the things in the background, and you'll see what I mean.