Guest_Raga_*
He wasn't talking about Kirkwall, it was talking about the Hanged Man being an absolute dive of a bar.
Varric: Yes, filled with some of the worst, and best, people in the world.
I don't think so; the conversation I had was specifically about Kirkwall. It was a really short one.
I don't think so; the conversation I had was specifically about Kirkwall. It was a really short one.
Ah, just checked the banter videos on youtube, yeah that's the one between Dorian and Varric.
I was thinking of the one between Varric and Blackwall, who talk about the Hanged Man being a dive.
Guest_Raga_*
Yea, I knew it was Varric and one of the human male companions, but I couldn't remember which. It's weird how memory works.
Cole can read people, that's why he killed Lambert. He found about his evil plans and decided to kill him. Although, he doesn't say he wishes to "kill" the divine. but I don't see how a lord seeker can get rid of the divine by other means. But his plan for turning the system into dictatorship was real. According to Cole he had zero guilt when he killed/hurt people, whether mages or Templars. (yes he killed a Templar who protected Rhys and Cole). If this is true I see him worse than Meredith because she always felt guilty for doing what she thought was necessary.
And this dictatorship plan is baseless, he wanted Justinia removed and replaced and The Order given proper treatment.
Haha, the Seekers? Don't worry, they get proper treatment.
I sided with Sebastian. Kirkwall is a cesspit that needs to have the rot within it forcibly removed once and for all.
Sure, that doesn't excuse him for killing all those people, nor does that excuse people who are mentally ill in our world from committing crimes, but we at least have laws that acknowledge that in those cases, that they did so being either unaware of the severity of it, or weren't in their right mind when they did so? Take Connor for instance, who was similarly possessed and unleashed a horde of undead on Redcliffe. Why is he treated with relative sympathy for the evil he did under the influence of another entity, whereas Anders is deemed a monster?
To be honest, invading Kirkwall for revenge makes Sebastian look objectively worse because what he does, he at least does of his own violition.
I kill Connor too. But the difference is that Connor is a child who has never had proper training. Anders is an adult who has (the Harrowing). Children typically have lighter sentences than adults for that same reason. An adult knows better, and Anders knew better than to allow Justice inside his body. He had every single warning in Awakening and chose to ignore it because he is a fool. Justice told him that demons seek out mages and that he had no such desires. He should have known that the moment he had the desire to enter his body he was a demon or close to becoming one as he was being perverted from his nature and should have refused him. He can cry about the injustice of the Circle as much as he likes. But ignoring the lessons of his Harrowing placed everyone's lives in danger.
Sebastian doesn't look worse. He has every right to search for Anders and those who aided in his escape, if they did. I think he went about it the wrong way, unless he tried to go through Bran first and was denied. If so, then why? Do I think he still had a right to invade? No. But that's what spies are for. He should have sent some into Kirkwall to dig around Anders's old place, mage underground et al to find clues as to where Anders might be. But at the end of the day, I could care less what happens to that dump anymore, but I do help Sebastian's relief efforts solely to solidify the alliance . I'm just glad Hawke is no longer there.
I kill Connor too. But the difference is that Connor is a child who has never had proper training. Anders is an adult who has (the Harrowing). Children typically have lighter sentences than adults for that same reason. An adult knows better, and Anders knew better than to allow Justice inside his body. He had every single warning in Awakening and chose to ignore it because he is a fool. Justice told him that demons seek out mages and that he had no such desires. He should have known that the moment he had the desire to enter his body he was a demon or close to becoming one as he was being perverted from his nature and should have refused him. He can cry about the injustice of the Circle as much as he likes. But ignoring the lessons of his Harrowing placed everyone's lives in danger.
But Connor never had the chance for any training due to his mother keeping him from the Circle, so his getting possessed was hardly his fault as he had no idea of the consequences of what Desire intended to get in exchange for helping his father. It also didn't help that the mentor she got to teach him in secret was a blood mage known for making idiotic decisions and was also hired to poison her husband. I'd say that the cacophony of idiot decisions from the adults around him, means that Connor deserves the least amount of blame for getting possessed.
As for Justice, he was already in that situation already, as he'd been forced into Kristoff's corpse against his will and he didn't know of any way to exit that vessel except by jumping into a new host. As Anders said, he fully consented to have Justice use him as a vessel to help his friend, rather than be either tricked into it or agree for power, as in the manner of demons. Considering that Riviani Seers regularly take Spirits into themselves with little problems, it's not like it can't be done safely, if you know how to do it properly (which Anders admittedly didn't).
Sebastian doesn't look worse. He has every right to search for Anders and those who aided in his escape, if they did. I think he went about it the wrong way, unless he tried to go through Bran first and was denied. If so, then why? Do I think he still had a right to invade? No. But that's what spies are for. He should have sent some into Kirkwall to dig around Anders's old place, mage underground et al to find clues as to where Anders might be. But at the end of the day, I could care less what happens to that dump anymore, but I do help Sebastian's relief efforts solely to solidify the alliance . I'm just glad Hawke is no longer there.
But what right does Sebastian even have?
As a Prince of Starkhaven, he has no authority as a foreign national regarding how the city-state of Kirkwall runs itself. As a Chantry Brother he has no authority in hunting down a rogue apostate as this is the purview of the Templar Order, who are currently engaged in shenanigans elsewhere. Bran was well within his rights as acting Viscount to tell him to take a hike and go be boring back in Starkhaven (after complimenting him on his familiar voice).
Furthermore, spies would be useless as the Mage Underground was destroyed by Meredith in Act 3, which is part of the reason that Anders fell so completely off the deep-end. With Hawke and everyone having left Kirkwall (save for Aveline), there is no-one around who he can question for aiding and abetting Anders, so his invasion has absolutely no point.
(after complimenting him on his familiar voice).
But Connor never had the chance for any training due to his mother keeping him from the Circle, so his getting possessed was hardly his fault as he had no idea of the consequences of what Desire intended to get in exchange for helping his father. It also didn't help that the mentor she got to teach him in secret was a blood mage known for making idiotic decisions and was also hired to poison her husband. I'd say that the cacophony of idiot decisions from the adults around him, means that Connor deserves the least amount of blame for getting possessed.
I agree with you. Which is why I believe that Connor and Anders cannot be compared. My warden kills him because it's too much of a risk to leave him home, travel to the tower to get the mages, and expects everything to be okay after he killed half the village. Knowing that it's okay no matter what is just metagaming and I chose not to do it here.
As for Justice, he was already in that situation already, as he'd been forced into Kristoff's corpse against his will and he didn't know of any way to exit that vessel except by jumping into a new host. As Anders said, he fully consented to have Justice use him as a vessel to help his friend, rather than be either tricked into it or agree for power, as in the manner of demons. Considering that Riviani Seers regularly take Spirits into themselves with little problems, it's not like it can't be done safely, if you know how to do it properly (which Anders admittedly didn't).
I personally never trusted Justice so I can't say for sure if I believe he was forced into Kristoff's body or if he just took an opportunity. He does lie when you press him about killing the body. He claims that he doesn't know what would happen, then claims he wouldn't exist anymore. I usually send him on his way. Also, we have no idea what Rivaini seers do, or what protective measures and rituals they have in place. In DAI we know they used necklaces to prevent bindings or something. Anders is not a Rivaini seer.
But what right does Sebastian even have?
As a Prince of Starkhaven, he has no authority as a foreign national regarding how the city-state of Kirkwall runs itself. As a Chantry Brother he has no authority in hunting down a rogue apostate as this is the purview of the Templar Order, who are currently engaged in shenanigans elsewhere. Bran was well within his rights as acting Viscount to tell him to take a hike and go be boring back in Starkhaven (after complimenting him on his familiar voice).
So if someone was a mother to you, you would feel as though you had no right to go after their killer? Hawke and Co. were killing everyone all over Kirkwall with not much authority yet Sebastian is now out of line because it's Anders?? Actually Sebastian can occupy Kirkwall if he can do it. It's not like Fereldan, Orlais or anyone would stop him or toss him out if he succeeded. Why do you think they needed Aveline's resistance? Heck even Leliana (In Aiding Kirkwall) was like "screw them." And him becoming prince means he is no longer a Chantry brother, so he can do whatever he likes concerning the apostate Anders.
Furthermore, spies would be useless as the Mage Underground was destroyed by Meredith in Act 3, which is part of the reason that Anders fell so completely off the deep-end. With Hawke and everyone having left Kirkwall (save for Aveline), there is no-one around who he can question for aiding and abetting Anders, so his invasion has absolutely no point.
All investigations have to start somewhere. They usually begin at the scene of the crime. Spies most certainly would have been helpful in searching Anders old home, hanged man, et al Just in case he left any clues to any possible places he would hide. Spies could get in without disturbing the authorities, and once they reported any evidence he could move on to the next step. It would have been better than an invasion.
I personally never trusted Justice so I can't say for sure if I believe he was forced into Kristoff's body or if he just took an opportunity. He does lie when you press him about killing the body. He claims that he doesn't know what would happen, then claims he wouldn't exist anymore. I usually send him on his way. Also, we have no idea what Rivaini seers do, or what protective measures and rituals they have in place. In DAI we know they used necklaces to prevent bindings or something. Anders is not a Rivaini seer.
Which is why I said, if Anders was thinking of the Rivaini Seers and their practices, he didn't know enough to prevent Justice from being corrupted, to prevent Justice from taking full control or force him to leave afterwards.
So if someone was a mother to you, you would feel as though you had no right to go after their killer? Hawke and Co. were killing everyone all over Kirkwall with not much authority yet Sebastian is now out of line because it's Anders?? Actually Sebastian can occupy Kirkwall if he can do it. It's not like Fereldan, Orlais or anyone would stop him or toss him out if he succeeded. Why do you think they needed Aveline's resistance? Heck even Leliana (In Aiding Kirkwall) was like "screw them." And him becoming prince means he is no longer a Chantry brother, so he can do whatever he likes concerning the apostate Anders.
I'm not saying that Sebastian's anger isn't valid or understandable, just that he's taking it out on the wrong people entirely.
Hawke was typically working for either the Guard, Templars or the Viscount at various points in DA2, so it's not like they didn't tend to have at least the illusion of having some kind of official sanction and legitimacy to their actions. The comparible situation of Hawke going after their mother's killer for revenge likewise was probably given sanction by Aveline, as it was her ignoring Emeric's warnings that caused his death and the death of several women on her watch.
The point is that Sebastian invading Kirkwall for petty revenge creates a bad precedent and could end up leading to an all out war in the Free Marches, since while the city-states tend to be rivals, they usually stop short of openly invading each other. Sebastian deciding that he was just wants to take Kirkwall for himself, in addition to Starkhaven could lead to the leaders of Markham, Wycombe, Tantervale and Ostwick to make a similar bid for power, or fear that he's not going to stop until he (or one of them) annexes the entire Free Marches. Consider that with a Dalish Inquisitior, Wycome might also have been left leaderless, the entire Free Marches might fall into anarchy because of this.
As for Leliana, she's also had someone close to her in the Chantry murdered and wants revenge? Is it any surprise that she might sympathise with him?
Hawke was typically working for either the Guard, Templars or the Viscount at various points in DA2, so it's not like they didn't tend to have at least the illusion of having some kind of official sanction and legitimacy to their actions. The comparible situation of Hawke going after their mother's killer for revenge likewise was probably given sanction by Aveline, as it was her ignoring Emeric's warnings that caused his death and the death of several women on her watch.
The point is that Sebastian invading Kirkwall for petty revenge creates a bad precedent and could end up leading to an all out war in the Free Marches, since while the city-states tend to be rivals, they usually stop short of openly invading each other. Sebastian deciding that he was just wants to take Kirkwall for himself, in addition to Starkhaven could lead to the leaders of Markham, Wycombe, Tantervale and Ostwick to make a similar bid for power, or fear that he's not going to stop until he (or one of them) annexes the entire Free Marches. Consider that with a Dalish Inquisitior, Wycome might also have been left leaderless, the entire Free Marches might fall into anarchy because of this.
As for Leliana, she's also had someone close to her in the Chantry murdered and wants revenge? Is it any surprise that she might sympathise with him?
Hawke may have been working for others but he took it upon himself to decide the fate of a lot of people when he had no right to do so. If the Templars hire him, he could decide to set mages free when he had zero authority to do so. You can run around with unreported mages, one being a blood mage and another an abomination, run around smuggling poison for your pirate buddy. Be a smuggler or Merc to enter the place. Yet Sebastian is evil for breaking laws?
Leliana had a screw Kirkwall attitude when Sebastian petitioned for aid for relief efforts. I had the aiding Kirkwall mission.
Kirkwall isn't that important to cause unrest in the whole Free Marches. No one was even coming to its aid. But I'm finished with this topic altogether. I just think that whole place needed to be torn down and Quarantined.
Hawke may have been working for others but he took it upon himself to decide the fate of a lot of people when he had no right to do so. If the Templars hire him, he could decide to set mages free when he had zero authority to do so. You can run around with unreported mages, one being a blood mage and another an abomination, run around smuggling poison for your pirate buddy. Be a smuggler or Merc to enter the place. Yet Sebastian is evil for breaking laws?
I never said that Sebastian was evil, an angry zealot on a one man Exalted March perhaps, but it's clear that he's not evil, just misguided.
The problem with both Sebastian and Anders is that both like to see the world in black and white terms, when it's really morally grey, something that you see with both the other companions in DA2 and the entire situation in Kirkwall.
As I said before, Anders at least has Justice influencing him to do negative things, whereas Sebastian does all his negative actions on his own. Relatively speaking, he does come off as being worse in comparison, although both of them ended up doing utterly deplorable things in the name of their self-righteous causes.
Well, if you got this quest, it means you let Anders go scot-free. If you are willing to let Anders kill people in an attempt to make the place better, why not SeaBass? I mean, his policy cannot be any worse than Anders's, which was to force the mages into a confrontation they were severely unequipped to handle.
Well, if you got this quest, it means you let Anders go scot-free. If you are willing to let Anders kill people in an attempt to make the place better, why not SeaBass? I mean, his policy cannot be any worse than Anders's, which was to force the mages into a confrontation they were severely unequipped to handle.
I understood that reference.
If you want Chaos choose Hawke
If you want Havoc choose Anders
If you want war Choose Isabela
If you want the whole mess choose all of them for your party.
If you want Chaos choose Hawke
If you want Havoc choose Anders
If you want war Choose Sebastian
If you want the whole mess choose all of them for your party.
Fixed. 
If you want Chaos choose Hawke
If you want Havoc choose Anders
If you want war Choose Isabela
If you want the whole mess choose all of them for your party.
Lol my favorite party minus one. Hawke, Aveline, Anders, Isabela
Lol my favorite party minus one. Hawke, Aveline, Anders, Isabela
Basically Corypheus, The Architect, Hawke,Isabela , Anders and Solas are the reason of why we have played the 3 games and fixed all of their fault, put all of them togheter and Boom we have Dragon age 4.
Basically Corypheus, The Architect, Hawke,Isabela , Anders and Solas are the reason of why we have played the 3 games and fixed all of their fault, put all of them togheter and Boom we have Dragon age 4.
Put Loghain, the Archdemon, Darkspawn and the Blight then you have Dragon Age: Origins.
Put Loghain, the Archdemon, Darkspawn and the Blight then you have Dragon Age: Origins.
Origins is about the Architect he is the real source, the archdemon is only a mindless creature transformed an created by him, in consequences Loghain have done what he have done. If you remove the architect essentially you will no have any 5th blight and no DAO.
Origins is about the Architect he is the real source, the archdemon is only a mindless creature transformed an created by him, in consequences Loghain have done what he have done. If you remove the architect essentially you will no have any 5th blight and no DAO.
Loghain start a civil war, blame the Wardens, poison the Arl, torture nobles and selling elves to slavery. Hawke will never come to Kirkwall if he is not paranoid that Orlesians will attack.
Loghain start a civil war, blame the Wardens, poison the Arl, torture nobles and selling elves to slavery. Hawke will never come to Kirkwall if he is not paranoid that Orlesians will attack.
Still the architect is the real source of all the event of DAO, DAA and some of DAII, all that Everyone have done is only in consequences of his action, if you remove him basically you will not have any DAO, Cailain still alive, Hawke still in Lothering with family, Eamon and Connor at redclieffe without problem, no abominations no wardens in Ferelden no civil war, nothing, Loghain is only a mere General, nothing compared to a genius like the Architect who have found And manipulated even an archedemon, who is considered a Messiah for his kind. In terms of havoc is a challenge between him and Solas.
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