312 réponses à ce sujet

[Poisd2Strike]

I have drawn the conclusion that you were wrong to interpret the thread title as you did because the thread title does not say that.  Even you agree that it does not, as you refer to your position as an inference.

 

The "apart from Sera" portion of the thread title does nothing but exclude Sera from the question.  It makes no claims about Sera at all.

 

The thread's title implies nothing, as implication doesn't exist.

 

I am able to draw that inference.  I simply choose not to do so, as it is not supported by the evidence.

 

"More likely than not" is not a position that has been advanced previously in this thread.  It may well be the case that the OP believed Sera to be widely disliked.  But nothing in the OP supports that conclusion.

 

The only rational interpretation is a literal one.  The OP merely excludes Sera from the question, and makes no claims regarding her.

 

Regarding the OP's lack of refutation, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

The thread's title, specifically "apart from Sera", implies that the OP believes most people believe Sera is the "most hated" companion.  Most logical, rational people would interpret the thread's title to have that meaning.  The OP's exclusion of Sera from the question implies that he believes most people believe Sera is the "most hated" companion.  There is no logical or rational reason to exclude Sera otherwise.  Clearly, I am not the one who has "shoddy" reasoning.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The thread's title, specifically "apart from Sera", implies that the OP believes most people believe Sera is the "most hated" companion. Most logical, rational people would interpret the thread's title to have that meaning. The OP's exclusion of Sera from the question implies that he believes most people believe Sera is the "most hated" companion. There is no logical or rational reason to exclude Sera otherwise. Clearly, I am not the one who has "shoddy" reasoning.

There is no rational conclusion available. That you draw any conclusion at all about the OP's opinion is irrational.

That an opinion is commonly held tells us nothing of its soundness.

[tmp7704]

It doesn't matter that she exploited the system. Her defence isn't that mages can exploit the system and gain status. It's that their complaints are not justified and that their rebellion is not warranted.

That's what makes her a hypocrite: she's not in a position to critique the mages, particularly since she escaped the Circle as much as they did.

To be fair, she's not really a hypocrite if she criticizes the mages rebelling -- as that's not what she did herself, she's found a way to get out of the circle through peaceful means.

For what's worth she also isn't hell-bent on maintaining the circles in their current/past shape; if you present her with alternative of allowing the mages to work within ranks of the Chantry as their own supervisors i.e. loosening the leash while maintaining some degree of control, she approves of that greatly.

[Poisd2Strike]

There is no rational conclusion available. That you draw any conclusion at all about the OP's opinion is irrational.

That an opinion is commonly held tells us nothing of its soundness.

 

Had the thread's title been "Everyone's most hated character" and had I drawn the conclusion that the OP meant Sera or that the thread title implied Sera, barring any explicit mention of Sera, that would have been irrational.  Since the thread's title is "Everyone's most hated character apart from Sera", it is perfectly rational and logical to conclude the OP believes most people would say Sera is the "most hated" and that belief is what lead him to exclude Sera.  My command of the English language and my understanding of what apart from generally means allows me to draw a perfectly rational conclusion about the OP's opinion.

[In Exile]

To be fair, she's not really a hypocrite if she criticizes the mages rebelling -- as that's not what she did herself, she's found a way to get out of the circle through peaceful means.

For what's worth she also isn't hell-bent on maintaining the circles in their current/past shape; if you present her with alternative of allowing the mages to work within ranks of the Chantry as their own supervisors i.e. loosening the leash while maintaining some degree of control, she approves of that greatly.

I just think that she's in no position to judge the moral or justifiability of their responses, even if she were not primarily concerned with her own advancement.

Thought you're right about your latter part. I just made a Qunari who was openly and uncontrollably pro-mage (my human mage was much more political) and the dialogues with her is incredibly reactive. I just got the post Redcliffe scene. I'm honestly left speechless by the attention to detail from Bioware, and the incredible RP freedom.

[outlaw1109]

On my first play through, I dismissed Serah because:  a) I could never really understand WTH she was saying and 2)she didn't really seem to fit into my "good guy" inquisition.

This play through, though, I've found that taking her along with other people has me laughing at their banter much more frequently.

As to "hate".  I don't hate any of them.  I don't like Blackwall as a person because he has a dry personality.  He's still a well-drawn character, IMO, because I've met plenty of people IRL just like him.  (Kudos to the person that associated him with Wynne, they do feel similar).

Viv I actually like.  She is who she is and she's very honest about it.  The only thing I find odd is her personal quest.  It made me feel like she was a gold digger.  Nothing to solidify that, but I had that feeling when she was talking to me after the mission was complete.

OH.  Lelianna.  I don't like who she has become.  I miss the happy-go-lucky, faithful woman I met in Origins, but I think this is a GREAT example of character growth.  People talk about how the "dark" characters (like Morrigan) are more interesting, but to see a bright character "go to the dark side" like this is MUCH more interesting than what Morrigan brings to the table.

 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Had the thread's title been "Everyone's most hated character" and had I drawn the conclusion that the OP meant Sera or that the thread title implied Sera, barring any explicit mention of Sera, that would have been irrational. Since the thread's title is "Everyone's most hated character apart from Sera", it is perfectly rational and logical to conclude the OP believes most people would say Sera is the "most hated" and that belief is what lead him to exclude Sera. My command of the English language and my understanding of what apart from generally means allows me to draw a perfectly rational conclusion about the OP's opinion.

We clearly disagree on the definition of rational. You seem to be using a colloquial definition.

When I say something is logical, I mean provably logical. That we could formalise the reasoning and write it down and demonstrate its irrefutable soundness. If a conclusion is logical, it is guaranteed to be correct. There is no uncertainty in the reasoning.

Everything else is guessing.

[JenMaxon]

I'm still on my first playthrough - I got the game at launch but had to upgrade before it would run (it was an ungrade that had been in the works for some time, getting the game spurred me to get on with it, so it was ok).  Anyway, I started late.  I also like MP so basically I've not got too far yet - just arrived at Skyhold.  So far, I like Sera though I'm still at the 'Huh? OK. Okaaay' stage.  I really dislike Vivienne though.  I even went back to talk to her after one conversation to see if there was a 'I think you should go, my dear' option (sadly not).  This has started an unexpected urge to want to murder all the characters I don't like, starting with Viv.  I found myself drawing up a 'people who I want dead before the end of the game' list as I was trolling round the Hinterlands.  Not good, I think.

[Shadow_Claw]

Vivienne, because she is so fake and pretentious. She clings to that Orlesian game of emptiness because she feels otherwise she has no value. And that is how I feel she values me. So I dislike her.

[Kallas_br123]

It doesn't matter that she exploited the system. Her defence isn't that mages can exploit the system and gain status. It's that their complaints are not justified and that their rebellion is not warranted.

That's what makes her a hypocrite: she's not in a position to critique the mages, particularly since she escaped the Circle as much as they did.

Edit: Your English was clear.

In the other games, I was on the side of the mage freedom, but in inquisition, I ended up siding with the circles, and viviane is partly responsible for it.

in her dialogues and other mages, as the agent that you can recruit in the hinterlands, the student of monsters in haven, and other mages that you find during DAO, as like  florian in witch hunt, wyne and some others I can not remember now , the circles are not as bad, thus are not all mages wanted the rebellion, just the majority, and I bet that not even an absolute majority.

[Zombie_Alexis]

Livius Erimond

[stop_him]

Hate is such a strong word for "pretend people." I was bored by Hawke. I am glad I will no longer be bored by her after "Here Lies the Abyss."

[Psyfun]

I don't "hate" any of the characters, but certainly Sera is the most obnoxious. From her speech patterns to her terribly written thought patterns, the only enjoyable part is when she is unintentionally ultra-literal.

 

After Sera for annoying... Solas, he's like a xenophobic Turian with that stick up his rectum.

[Bizantura]

I don't like the characters at all.  I can stand Cassandra and Cullen to a degree.  Never thought characters could get any worse then DA2. 

[Aurok]

Keep digging, Sylvius. It isn't cringeworthy at all.

 

[VahnXIII]

Note that I'm not that far into the game. 

 

Least favorite: Vivienne

 

Favorite: Dorian. Love his personality. Probably one of my favorite cast members since Balthier in Final Fantasy 12.

[PlasmaCheese]

Oh man. Balthier and Dorian.

Too much sass.

Too much fashion.

[LostInReverie19]

Vivienne, darling.

[Cell1e]

1. Vivienne, she's nasty!

 

2. Sera is bratty!

 

Imo

[TweetyTheBird]

1. Blackwall - too boring

2. Viviane - I hate how she is looking down on everyone and I hate that she calls the inquisitor "my dear..." all the time

 

I also think that there is a lot of missed potential with Josephine - I hope that they will fix her. Most of the time when she speaks to the inquistor even when it is important she is still sitting on the desk and writing and there are generally too few good dialogues with her.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Keep digging, Sylvius. It isn't cringeworthy at all.

It's logically defensible, which is all that matters.

[acicm2]

Requisition Officers that try to get me to fill those requisitions.get away from me.

[Ryzaki]

Requisition Officers that try to get me to fill those requisitions.get away from me.

 

They just exist to bloat your quest log I swear. >_<

[Xiomara]

I don't hate Sera. Sure her immaturity can become tiresome but so can Varric's crap attempts to be funny, Iron Bull's dudebro act and Cole....just Cole. My opinions on some characters have changed now that I've beaten the game and started using different characters on a second playthrough. I disliked Solas for quite a while, but he grew on me to the extent that he became one of my favourites. Blackwall spends too much of the game being thoroughly uninteresting and I dropped him like a hot brick after previously liking him. Cole remains my least favourite though. I don't like his design and I don't find it easy to converse with such an affected character so I. never really bothered with him. Bull is another one who I don't really care for. His dialogue is dreadful, his voice acting is dreadful and he is KO'd so easily in battle for such a renowned warrior.

[Maria13]

When I first met her I thought Sera was unintelligent, I revised that POV, I think she simply lacks education, most of the other characters are extremely well-educated, save perhaps Blackwall and Cole, I now believe she has ADHD, given her energy and the way she changes subject mid conversation and her scatter-brained approach, her dialogues with Iron Bull on religion are priceless.