43 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

tangible evidence of their gods being little more than glorified rulers capable of great feats of magic, but of them being actual gods?

 

no

[Lulupab]

It speaks volumes that Fen'Harel himself is capable of believing in the Maker.

 

The term "god" is used loosely in either case. If the being is not omniscient, omnipotent omni.... etc then what is it but a powerful spirit/entity? The maker's home can be invaded by magical bogeymen, so the maker is not so much different, he isn't a "god". Of course there is the possibility that he doesn't even exist. However the maker is an idea, that someone is watching over his creation and the fact that he exists doesn't even matter.

 

Looking at Anders and Felemth one doesn't see much of a difference, as Mythal is goddess of Justice (also Vengeance). Perhaps Mythal is simply the stongest spirit of Justice out there. 

[Medhia_Nox]

@steelcan:  What is an "actual god"?

The Loa of Hoodun? 
The Trimurti of Hinduism?

YHVH of the Judeo-Christian faiths?
Zeus?

Manitou of the indigenous tribes of America?

The Tao?
 

[Lulupab]

@steelcan:  What is an "actual god"?

The Loa of Hoodun? 
The Trimurti of Hinduism?

YHVH of the Judeo-Christian faiths?
Zeus?

Manitou of the indigenous tribes of America?

The Tao?
 

 

Indeed.

 

Was Prometheus a "god"?. He created men (as in males), stole fire from the "gods" and gave it to the mankind. Yet he is never called a "god" even though he is from the same family line Zeus is from. Its just a matter of conception and all such gods in different lores are simply powerful beings, not "gods". This includes the maker and the elven gods.

[Mims]

I don't personally attribute the survival just to elven gods. There's more at work here- although what 'more' is is a matter of how you read into it. Maybe its luck. Maybe it is the will of the Maker. In each case, the hero survives as a combination of three things: their unique qualities, luck or divine providence, and the assistance of someone more powerful than they. 

 

The Inquisitor has the longest chain of events that caused them to survive their 'crisis' point. They would have died without one of these things not happening: 

 

- The Divine calls out to the Inquisitor, causing the Inquisitor to touch the orb. [ A mortal saves. ] 

- Something innate causes the Inquisitor to survive touching the orb. [ Luck, or divine intervention via the Maker. ] 

- The Divine or a spirit leads the Inquisitor out of the fade. [ Spirits ]

- What will become Inquisition forces rescue the Inquisitor from the rubble and the demons. [ Mortals ] 

- Solas stops the mark from killing him/her. [ Elven ]

 

All of those things had to happen in order for them to survive. An elven "god" did save the Inquisitor, but that was not the only part of what saved them. 

 

Edit: And as far as whether or not elven gods are truly gods themselves- all we know for certain is that Solas does not think he is a god. At least not in the sense that the chantry teaches a god to be. We don't know how Mythal saw herself, but since she could be murdered, I'm inclined to say that Solas is correct. I see the elven gods as either spirits who became 'mortal' like Cole, or perhaps the first magisters of the world who wielded immense power during the 'primoridal' days.

[errantknight]

you weren't saved by an elven "god" in DA:I, it was luck/providence you survived

No god there, it was either a spirit/demon or a soul, either acting independently or through the Maker's will, depending on who you believe pushed you from the breech, because that was what saved you, not the healing/rift stuff that came after. Those just capitalized on your initial survival.

[EmissaryofLies]

tangible evidence of their gods being little more than glorified rulers capable of great feats of magic, but of them being actual gods?

 

no

 

They could be.

 

Meanwhile the Cult of Andraste remains in the dark, barking about their precious "maker". While the Dalish are at least partially correct, even if they misunderstand quite a bit of it.

[Steelcan]

A God would be a being that transcends physical existence, but is not a spirit/demon hallmarked by being capable of creation and bestowing life where there was none previously.

[Steelcan]

They could be.
 
Meanwhile the Cult of Andraste remains in the dark, barking about their precious "maker". While the Dalish are at least partially correct, even if they misunderstand quite a bit of it.

. Lol, "cult" its not like Andrastians outnumber Dalish several thousand to one

[Steelcan]

@steelcan:  What is an "actual god"?
The Loa of Hoodun? 
The Trimurti of Hinduism?
YHVH of the Judeo-Christian faiths?
Zeus?
Manitou of the indigenous tribes of America?
The Tao?

. Any being capable of creatinf life/a world from nothing, or is recognized as a god by such a power. The Pantheons of various people are all examples

[Medhia_Nox]

@Steelcan:  And "if" beings like Solas created the elves?

[Colonelkillabee]

No elven god saved me. I was saved by the Divine.

 

And I'm converting.

Yep. And I personally think that Divine spirit was Andraste as a spirit of faith.

[Steelcan]

@Steelcan:  And "if" beings like Solas created the elves?

. Then we might be getting somewhere in calling them gods

However since Sola's entertains the existence of the Maker, its unlikely they did

[Colonelkillabee]

It speaks volumes that Fen'Harel himself is capable of believing in the Maker.

This.

 

Could you imagine living in a world where people consider you a god, and you **** up more than they do?

 

I'd want to believe in the Maker too, lol. That is a scary scary world to live in.

[LOLandStuff]

I'd rather have a god who barely makes his presence known than a bunch of douches playing Black & White.

[Br3admax]

@ Lulupab

 

Please don't make me hate Solas. He's my favorite DA:I companion after Cassandra. Please don't ruin him for me.

Seriously, somehow I disagree with him literally all the time, but his awesomeness is almost ironclad. 

 

still you don't seem to get the idea of Andrastianism, the Maker isn't going to be making his presence known to the world through his actions.  As Mother Giselle tells us, he is much more subtle.

 

He can literally do absolutely nothing, and it is perfectly in line with Andrastian teaching.

"The key is understanding this: no god need prove himself. Anyone who tries is either mad or lying." 

[Milan92]

One might wonder "how" it just so happens that you walked in on "the guy Solas gave the orb to".

 

"Is it fate, or change, I can never decide."  - Flemeth

 

@TheDarkKnightReturns:  I would question how anyone not "Pro-Deity" or at least "Pro-Elven Deity" could possibly like Solas.

 

I'm surprised the inquisitor stayed so calm when they save the divine. A few foot tall, has lyrium coming out of him.

 

Not the kind of person you'd ever expect to come across

[Colonelkillabee]

The only thing I got from this thread is a lot of women out there, or at least the Solavellans out there, want a man to hold their hand and guide them. lol

[Nightdragon8]

A spirit and an Elven god is responsible for the protagonist surviving.

 

*snip*

that was probably the real Divine at the time, she got pulled back but you escaped. but the game is writen in a way which could make it either.