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If Modders can customize the way they do then why wouldnt something like this be possible? Also, this would be the ultimate system of tactical combat.


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#1
ThirteenthJester13

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The tactics can be deep if you want every single fight to last for 20 minutes as you literally micro manage every step ad every ability execution for all characters with tactics turned off, then you can dominate the game.

 

If they could somehow implement the tactics slots from DA2 or atleast the current ones into the Tactical cam as part of the menu that would fix something that wasn't broken until they broke it plus make it better. Instead of allowing for us to manipulate tedious but smart AI (or atleast useful) by going back and forth back and forth why not allow us to do what we where doing in the DA2 "Behaviors and tactics" slots but in real time. LIke in a battle if you are controlling your character you hit the tac cam, then pull up the tactics options right their in game while the action is stopped and you'd select a target or ally: then the conditions, situation, or rank of a target real quick. Then select what to do or what to do in case your first choice fails. Instead of having 8 slots in the menu, Id rather que up 4-5 commands for each character and then switch to my character and confidently fight on knowing that my companions are doing the things I told them to do or will do the things ive conditioned them to do if those conditiond are met, meanwhile doing whatever I have their default behavior set on (Target Defend or Follow and preferred or disabled or enabled skills aspect of the game.

 

Just picture using that tactic slots page fromt eh menu in DA2 while going in and out of a real time fight or moving it along at a pace you prefer.

 

I HAVE a question about tactics as well. I don't have friendly fire on simply because I don't think this game would be playable without it unless you don't mind inching away at a 60 hour story because evry fight takes 30 minutes and before you know it you've been playing for 4 hours and your eyes are bleeding. All you've done is two or three sidequests and crafted some armor because the combat tactics are their but missing that really helpful tool to make it not only deeper but less of a pain.BUT Am I wasting my time carin about wear I position my characters cuz I kinda like to have them in formation  with rogues and mages in back, a charging berserker war cry warrior in front and another warrior defending the fist one. My rogue will follow my targets around while my mage will defend whoever is watching my back while I try to keep the enemies clustered so the mage can use immolation and other AOE attacks an the rogue can toss Antivans into the mix.

 

But most of all I want wariors back to back (wish that was a command you could perform although sometimes it works out that way unless my warrior backup decides to run after an archer a hundred yards away because it just did a critical hit on me so its perceived as te biggest threat (I try to remedy this by making sure the mage and rogue defend the warriors but also Ill go into ttac cam if their are to many ranged fighters so I can keep the warriors back to back or a warrior on one side of a group of enemies with me on the other while the mage and rogue in my group are also opposite each other with the enemies in the middle, even if we are outnumbered DOES THIS BOOST FLANKING DAMAGE. It seems Flanking is the best choice and surround the enemy seems like the smart thing to do but DOES THE GAME AGREE wth me

 

more rantsing...

 

Would be cool if the War Cry or Chalenge abilities made the character actually yell out witty one liners like "Lunch time mothe*****ers" BOOOOM antivan fire from all around.

 

 

(Another thing: Battle formatons would of been cool so that your party marches with you but in a specific fomattion that then reacts to the outbreak of battle ina certain way, each member taking on a role and position, organized instea of the clusterfuck where both my warriors and three enemies plus Solas are all clipping into each other attacking the same damn enemy while three other enemies get flanking bonuse by hiting them in th eback....pause.... hiting them again...pause...

 

I like to try and position my mage and rogues in certain spots before a fight with eemies spotted in the distance but companions wont hold positions for long enough and Varric always comes down from the hill or rock I placed him on and Solas never tries to get away from an enemy when at point blank range instead just slings his wizard Junk toe to toe with an armored melee enemy. (and what happened to the Melee attacks you could still do while weildig a ranged (my N button is broke on laptop sorry) weapon or as a mage when enemies came to close. Perhaps the blades I craft onto staves for Solas will come in use later on when he learns to defend himself up close (the skills they have you unlock in the begging are the powerfull ones but since you don't unlock fundamental skills like combat roll or parry and or block till shortly after and im assuming more in the specialist class trees like "You now have the common sense to fend of enemies that get to close by drawing your daggers or using the blade on your staff to doll out punishment toe to toe with the enemy.

 

Also I want to say that the animations for mighty blow, nerfing of Sythe (now charging bull) attack are lame. Also the abilities should have multiple animations just cuz that's better than the same anaimation, Obviusly animations don't matter much except for style and flare because the hit detection is so baffling (Should of went with Unreal Engine not FrostBite) So is the hold down one button to attack. No matter how many affects their are to make you feel like you're wielding a giant sword when you make contact, its not going to feel as good as when each individual hit or attack is done by pressing the button each time and perhaps in the right moments.

 

Also, the characters need smaller hit boxes. I shouldn't be getting damage while rolling away in the nick of times if the enemies weapon is clearly hitting nothing but air (projectiles are the worse, you will take damage from attacks based on something other than physics. Example, Ice projectiles doesn't go past me and I don't successfully dodge unless its way before the eemy strikes. Otherwise I take damage from a gargantuan hit box.

 

Tighten it up Bioware. Make an action game or a tactical/strategy game or an Action - Strategy - RPG and not a semi action based RPG with strategy elements.


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#2
errantknight

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I don't disagree with you in principle, but you should realize that this likely won't change in this game, so you're looking at the next. Also, did you ever play Origins? Because tactics and combat control was far better there than in DA2. You're holding up action-rpg as the gold standard, but much of what you're talking about is far better with tactical rpg controls like Origins than an action rpg hybrid like DA2. Much more complete tactics, gear/ability customization and party control.

#3
StrangeStrategy

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Imagine how awesome it would be: If an ally is being attacked by a melee/ranged/magic attack, cast Barrier.
Maybe then my mages wouldn't throw a random barrier on me at the end of a fight, or when I'm not even under attack, or when the fight hasn't even started...

 

Set Behaviour: Ranged

mages and archers would never stand to AA in melee range ever again. Better yet: Self being attacked by a melee attack: Use Fade Step....

 

 

what were they thinking removing tactics... The game would be so much better if not for the horrible Ai and lack of tactics.


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#4
Cyonan

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I know I'm going to catch hate from the Origins fans, but I'm kind of glad that the "if...then" tactics are gone. The new system is too limited, but in the old system they made it so that you could have the game almost playing itself. It just seems like poor design if I can code the AI to play the game for me.



#5
ThirteenthJester13

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I didn't discover Dragon Age until I got sick of shooters and looked around for games to download onto my 360 awhile back (2 years or so). That's when I discovered that there were two shooters, online worthy shooters (halo and Gears, the first MW and Black Ops maybe) and a handful of over looked RPGs Id never heard about. Back then I was more into the Open world action shooter like GTA and gears got me online. The only RPGs I was famlirar with where the Final Fantasies 7-10. 7 being my favorite right next to number 9 even though i beat 9 before i beat 7 cuz i played 7 at age 11 and didn't revisit till age 20 when the game was 127$ on ebay and i still had my copy. Beat it twice and cashed in. 

 

I missed out on a lot of RPGs after FF11 took forever to get working then you had to get a subscription and all this garbage that my parents just didn't want to pay for  but i heard it sucked anyway. but it was the first MMO or Massive RPG open wold i was exposed to besides the open world of GTA games which where my fav. Truth is all games are technicllly role playing. You play the role of a character when hes shooting things and watch him in the cutscnese. Or, when i discovered the likes of KOTOR, Deus Ex, and other games where you did a lot of fighting in rhetoric and argument/debate/or influence/smooth talking/negotiating type scenarios that where more compelling then aother room with 100 bad guys to kil by the end of the game having 6 million kills. I was itching for more RPGs (TRUE RPGs, where you don't just do quests and make a character build and decide whether or not to be good or evil but rather choosing from many greyish paths and developing your own character or (in the case of the Witcher) "your Geralt". I downloaded demos for every RPG on XBOX marketpace and ended up with origins and Da2 along with Witcher 2, Amalur, and Some others.

 

Then i realized all games are Roeplaying games. You play the role of a character or rather you are his bloodthirsty second personality and can only watch what happens in between the headshots and gut splatters. Fast Forward past the days of Gears and Socom and i revisited finaly fantasy 7 and beat it three times then beat 9 10 time (I had that game down like the words to a popular song. I coud literaly beat it in 2 days cuz i took it to my grandmas and had nothing to do so i played for 24 hours straight once, eating and shitting in between of course. THen two more 10 hour marathons and blam im at Memoria facing Kuja (badass boss music).



#6
ThirteenthJester13

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I know I'm going to catch hate from the Origins fans, but I'm kind of glad that the "if...then" tactics are gone. The new system is too limited, but in the old system they made it so that you could have the game almost playing itself. It just seems like poor design if I can code the AI to play the game for me.

Yeah but if you only set up the  basic ones we have know in the menu and then have a command /inquisitor command wheel where you could cue up to 3 or 4 moves including specific routes using waypoints so u can easily have your archers weave around nearby rocks or tress. Youd still play the game but monitor your party as you issue commands. one command would equal Choosing an ally, then it would show you his condition and the enemy attacking him or show al allies and their conditions/situations. Then issue a two part command. offensive or defensive. Prepare before the fight even begins in case are ambushd by setting up the old Ranged, Default, Tank, Agresive, Passive, Cautious, etc although i think each one shouldn't have "ally wont move from area of affect attck by enemy cuz that was annoying but in DA2 my archers and mages never got all clustered so that they could die in the AOE attacks by the more powerful bosses. nstead they stayed on the fringes and made a ral difference.

 

I did get sick of rearranging tactics over an over again when i got new slots that's why i think if they where in real time then you wouldn't have to have an entire quest/mission worth of tactical orders lined up for everone in perfect harmony and then change it evrtime you change parties.. You'fd select preferred attacks/abilities along with the nature of their behavior and then the 4 slots that include how to heal, when to stop using abilities and what targets to target and i think the Defend option should only take affect after an ally is hit and needs the help but if they are ranged then they would run or evade the enemy allowing whom ever i chose to defend them to defend them and with what attacks to defend them  with before defaulting and perhaps even how long to engage a certain enemy. Idk a lot could of been done but i think the ranged, aggressive, tank, passive, etc would of been most important as it keeps my group from clustering up. It would be like XCOM only without the turn based system atleast from my POV.. and with swords and axes and shields nt guns,



#7
ThirteenthJester13

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while obviously controlling everyone or just yourself in the fight. Also a better emphasis on using the environments to advantage could of been cool like long range arrow shots, setting up traps as a rogue no a mage.. Traps that donw disappear either. Instead of just engaging in what feels like pure chaos (although ive learned to use shield wall as block and then payback strike right after to gt criticals a lot. Revanant demns are kicking my ass right now.)



#8
AlanC9

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I don't disagree with you in principle, but you should realize that this likely won't change in this game, so you're looking at the next. Also, did you ever play Origins? Because tactics and combat control was far better there than in DA2. You're holding up action-rpg as the gold standard, but much of what you're talking about is far better with tactical rpg controls like Origins than an action rpg hybrid like DA2. Much more complete tactics, gear/ability customization and party control.


I still don't get this argument. I only need Tactics if I'm playing DAO or DA2 as hybrids; if I'm playing them as pure tactical games then I'm controlling the companions myself anyway.

#9
Chaos17

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It's too soon for moddders to dive into deep things like Tactics because they lack man power on the coding part of their toolkit which is in alpha stage.

You can still post your suggestion over there : http://daitools.free...s.org/index.php

I'm suggesting you this because modders can't be everywhere to read suggestions.

 

So if you're a modder or you know anyone who can help, please pass the message.



#10
In Exile

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I still don't get this argument. I only need Tactics if I'm playing DAO or DA2 as hybrids; if I'm playing them as pure tactical games then I'm controlling the companions myself anyway.


To a lot of people it seems that "tactics" really mean conditional set ups. I wonder if people would loathe BG2 now, seeing the level of micromanagement necessary in that game.

#11
Chaos17

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To a lot of people it seems that "tactics" really mean conditional set ups. I wonder if people would loathe BG2 now, seeing the level of micromanagement necessary in that game.

Tactics exist mainly to relieve the player from trash mobs encounters even in BG serie.

I'm not talking about the mobs that can instant kill you like the vampires or basiliks which required some preparation before hand.



#12
In Exile

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Tactics exist mainly to relieve the player from trash mobs encounters even in BG serie.
I'm not talking about the mobs that can instant kill you like the vampires or basiliks which required some preparation before hand.

I get that. You mean e.g. gnolls. Though with basiliks I personally just preferred to role the dice and stone to flesh after. Only my Bhalspawn needed protection.

#13
ThirteenthJester13

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while obviously controlling everyone or just yourself in the fight. Also a better emphasis on using the environments to advantage could of been cool like long range arrow shots, setting up traps as a rogue no a mage.. Traps that donw disappear either. Instead of just engaging in what feels like pure chaos (although ive learned to use shield wall as block and then payback strike right after to gt criticals a lot. Revanant demns are kicking my ass right now.)



#14
ThirteenthJester13

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I just don't believe in games that have any limit to what you the player can do when moving your character, fighting, or navigating. I believe every game should have the fundamental abilities of jumping, dodging, reasonable climbing (unless its assasins creed or something) basically just the ability to grab over head ledges or clambor up a rocky summit and especially vaulting over or climbing over any obstacle shorter than your character plus anything that you or I (mid 20s healthy fully limbed person in moderate shape could do with the most basic of training even).

 

In watch dogs you couldn't even Jump. But you could scale walls. Couldn't jump gaps. That one fatal flaw ruined the game for me. It takes more than a handful of fatal flaws to ruin an RPG and even more if the story and free open conversation and story paths are present and definataly if that story is atleast entertaining. I can always turn th egame down to normal or easy if i wish to blow thru everything for 100% completion (never received a 100% completeion for any RPG or open world game despite beathing them multiple times and still completing tons of quess and finding tons of secrets, etc. A game is an experience for me. Much like a movie only on a much more immersified scale (its a word now) and loot chasing collectiable finding, exp grinding are for the birds. That's notto say ill find out a few of he more intersesting secrets thru natural progression , roleplaying and exporation. I wished that n Dark souls enemies disappeared forever after you killed them twice. (once then again after the benemies bodies final r"rebirth") Replacing the areas with new eemies in new locations with new surprises is a concept for game developers to think about.... but a concept that should be about 7 concepts uder "The perfect concept for creating an epic battle vs enemies 50 times the size of the character and navigating the environment/environment traversal plus mastering the sword fight, melee combat  or atleast figuring out the blueprint like gears of war did but then completely failed to fuly realize as did every game that took tht concept of cover fire (maininly cause you could take to many bullets before dying so it was pointless to fire your rifle from coverat another who was also in cover. Sniper battles or powe weapons need only apply.

 

I just thought of something: a none button press cover system for the fantasy RPG. SO many games that seem like they could of been great RPG have use of cover as part of the code, but now open world RPGS (semi open orld  or whatever. This game is open world the areas are large. Il rAnt about how the CAPITAL of VAL Royeau was such a disappointment offering nothing  but a couple shops. I accpected Kirwall sized cities in this game)



#15
Sylvius the Mad

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I know I'm going to catch hate from the Origins fans, but I'm kind of glad that the "if...then" tactics are gone. The new system is too limited, but in the old system they made it so that you could have the game almost playing itself. It just seems like poor design if I can code the AI to play the game for me.

If you had to code it, then it's you playing the game. The decision-making was still all yours. You just automated the moment-to-moment clicking.
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