334 réponses à ce sujet

[Xhaiden]

Let me re-express it: I could understand if it was this way for consoles, since the number of buttons on gamepads is quite short. But having those limitations on Pc with mouse and keyboard, i cannot understand.

 

Then the console crowd would be bitching alongside the PC crowd that prefers a gamepad. Its a no win scenario yet we have PC Master Racers on here screeching like they were personally affronted. 

 

Frostbite is a cross platform development engine. This isn't a "port" ( if it was you'd have a hell of a lot more to complain about ). The Dragon Age series has always been developed cross platform and most triple A titles will continue to be cross platform titles for maximum audience. With the hardware and software all moving in that direction ( and has been for years now ). Whining about it now like its some sudden surprise twist is just silly and shows you haven't been paying attention to the industry for almost a decade. 

 

Now, we can complain about the UI all we want ( and its not like its perfect on consoles either, the UI has rough edges on both ) or bemoan the loss of the RTS style tactical RPG. You're likely not going to see that from a triple A studio anymore. At least not one under the yoke of an American publisher.

 

That style of game is going the way of the indie/niche developer due to its limited platform scope ( Try Divinity: Origin Sin if you need a fix. ). Partially due to control limitations ( requiring a mouse + keyboard ) and partially because Bethesda changed the landscape of the mainstream RPG with Skyrim. The people have spoken. That is the kind of game they want. That's the kind of game we're gonna get. That's where the audience is and by extension where the money is and EA goes where the money is. If you purchased and enjoyed Skyrim, EA/Bioware heard you whether you realized it or not. 

 

All of this would be far more productive if you offered constructive feedback on how to improve the overall game instead of whining like spoiled 6 year olds upset that other kids get to play with the same toys you do. I mean cripes, people. On one hand you're acting like Bioware is the anti-Christ and on the other you can't figure out why Bioware seems hesitate to communicate with you on the forums. >.>

[AlanC9]

Steam have "all" games Origin and Uplay have EA/Ubisoft games.

Sure. I wasn't counting that as a difference between the platforms, though obviously I have to buy a game from the platform it's on.

[Dreez]

EA? Casey Hudson managed to "ruin" his game all on his own.

 

No. Casey Hudson was Bioware Dev, and when EA says Jump - Bioware Asks how high...

 

You know what's interesting...  Out of the original devs from Bioware, not many are left.

But i agree with them, because if i were a dev for Bioware, i would pack my bags and leave for a better company

that isn't ruled by dictatorship and capitalism - i would join a company who had passion for making games.

 

Look at the people behind  Divinity Original Sin, then compare their budget with Dragon Age-II...   Original Sin is the best RPG released since DA:O.

[otis0310]

Then the console crowd would be bitching alongside the PC crowd that prefers a gamepad. Its a no win scenario yet we have PC Master Racers on here screeching like they were personally affronted. 

 

Frostbite is a cross platform development engine. This isn't a "port" ( if it was you'd have a hell of a lot more to complain about ). The Dragon Age series has always been developed cross platform and most triple A titles will continue to be cross platform titles for maximum audience. With the hardware and software all moving in that direction ( and has been for years now ). Whining about it now like its some sudden surprise twist is just silly and shows you haven't been paying attention to the industry for almost a decade. 

 

Now, we can complain about the UI all we want ( and its not like its perfect on consoles either, the UI has rough edges on both ) or bemoan the loss of the RTS style tactical RPG. You're likely not going to see that from a triple A studio anymore. At least not one under the yoke of an American publisher.

 

That style of game is going the way of the indie/niche developer due to its limited platform scope ( Try Divinity: Origin Sin if you need a fix. ). Partially due to control limitations ( requiring a mouse + keyboard ) and partially because Bethesda changed the landscape of the mainstream RPG with Skyrim. The people have spoken. That is the kind of game they want. That's the kind of game we're gonna get. That's where the audience is and by extension where the money is and EA goes where the money is. If you purchased and enjoyed Skyrim, EA/Bioware heard you whether you realized it or not. 

 

All of this would be far more productive if you offered constructive feedback on how to improve the overall game instead of whining like spoiled 6 year olds upset that other kids get to play with the same toys you do. I mean cripes, people. On one hand you're acting like Bioware is the anti-Christ and on the other you can't figure out why Bioware seems hesitate to communicate with you on the forums. >.>

 

 

There are a couple of flaws in your logic.

 

1.  You cannot compare Skryim to Dragon Age even if they are both RPGs .  Skyrim is a solo charatcer experience focussing on exploration and an atmospheric setting.  Dragon Age is a party based tactical experience focussing on plot and complex characters (like Morrigan). 

 

It would be like saying Assassin's Creed is the same as Call Of Duty because they are both action games. While this is true, they are miles apart from each other so it would be like comparing apples and oranges.

 

2.  The console users do not like a lot of the game either.  I have played with both controller and keyboard, most of the problems are NOT PC specific, so your argument about the pc master race falls short here.

 

3.  In DAO they fixed the UI problem by having a completely different UI for the consoles than they did for PC. Which makes sense because the input is radically different.  Most PC players are up in arms because BIoware was too  lazy to do that.  They just ported over the existing UI as it is. 

 

You would be just as upset if you ended up getting an interface that was clearly made for Kb+M and was just hammered into a straight port for the XBox/Playstation.  Does that make you an Xbox super racist if you complain about it?  No, it means the developers did a lazy job making a port over from the PC and you are complaining about it.  You have every right to because you are not playing a PC.  They should have done a proper job when designing your  UI.

 

And don't bother denying that you be complaining about it.

 

 

 

Now that said, some people here are clearly blaming the design choices on an attempt to appease the console users.  This is obivously misinformed.  DAO did well on consoles and there are a lot of console users complaining here.  The design choices were made to appeal to casual gamers who like easy, action oriented combat and have a fear of numbers, specifically the attribute system which is why they dumbed down the levelling. 

 

While  a lot of console users fit this description, so do a lot of PC users.  It is more accurate to say that are aiming for the casual market and veering away from the hardocre RPG market that the franchise was originally intented to appeal to.  As a result many RPG fans are upset over this, while people who like casual games like it.

 

We can see by looking at the forums and complaints that most are RPG fans.  If you are not, that is fine.

 

But you need to remember Bioware had a reputation of making RPGs from Baldur's Gate all the way up to Dragon Age:Origins.  Then you need to remember that Bioware promised they would return the franchise back to its RPG roots then released a game aimed at casual gamers instead.  Therefore, they were lying to thier RPG fans.  They then said they would make the game for PC users, then ported over an obious console game which had a very sloppy Kb+M UI.  Therefore lying to the PC market as well.

 

Now if you are casual gamer on an Xbox you don't feel the outrage because you were not lied to.  If you are an RPG fan who plays on the Xbox you are angry because you were lied to.  If you are an RPG fan playing on a PC you are outraged because they lied to you TWICE.

 

 

I apologize for this overly long post, I just wanted people to know why people are upset.

[otis0310]

That's interesting because New Vegas is one of the 'sequels' I have not yet played.  Fallout 3 was entertaining I thought.  Don't remember UI or controls being an issue.  Were they very much changed in the add-on?

 

Firt off New Vegas is a stand alone game, not an add-on.  Other than that the graphics are better in NV than Fallout 3, they did something with the shaders I think, because it uses the same meshes and textures but they still look nicer in NV than Fallout 3.

 

But as to your question, no they play exactly the same.  NV has a better atmosphere, more memorable characters and a slightly better plot.  Most people agree it is a the better of the two.  Those who do not point out that Fallout 3 rewards exploration in the form of Bobbleheads and unique equipment.  NV does not, mainly because the bobblheads are replaced by implants that you can buy, so there is no need to explore that vault or cave because you are guaranteed only to get generic equipment and XP for killing its denizens.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Firt off New Vegas is a stand alone game, not an add-on.  Other than that the graphics are better in NV than Fallout 3, they did something with the shaders I think, because it uses the same meshes and textures but they still look nicer in NV than Fallout 3.

 

But as to your question, no they play exactly the same.  NV has a better atmosphere, more memorable characters and a slightly better plot.  Most people agree it is a the better of the two.  Those who do not point out that Fallout 3 rewards exploration in the form of Bobbleheads and unique equipment.  NV does not, mainly because the bobblheads are replaced by implants that you can buy, so there is no need to explore that vault or cave because you are guaranteed only to get generic equipment and XP for killing its denizens.

Better shaders with the same models and textures, yet you're speaking of improvement. Huge leap forward, eh?

Anyway, both F3 and FNV are just huge mods to TES:IV Oblivion.

With guns.

[coldflame]

 

Obsidian makes great design choices so many that people say that they are better devs then Bioware but they do not count the huge and I mean mountains of bugs their game have, way to big for a finished game so if we take the bad and the good they are not better then the devs at Bioware.

 

When Obsidian was formed, a number of former Planescape: Torment and Fallout 1/2 developers were part of it (not sure about now). The way I see it, if those developers are still with Obsidian, then I don't see how Bioware is a better developer creatively, when compared with Obsidian. I think the two studios are about the same.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

When Obsidian was formed, a number of former Planescape: Torment and Fallout 1/2 developers were part of it (not sure about now). The way I see it, if those developers are still with Obsidian, then I don't see how Bioware is a better developer creatively, when compared with Obsidian. I think the two studios are about the same.

Obsidian mafe Alpha Protocol. It can barely called a game.

So feel free to forget the Obsidian that once was.

[coldflame]

Obsidian mafe Alpha Protocol. It can barely called a game.

So feel free to forget the Obsidian that once was.

 

Well, I did say I was comparing them on the level of game design and creativity. I was not comparing them on the level of their developers' programming proficiency.

 

Alpha Protocol was actually an interesting game "creatively", if you "could" look pass all the horrible bugs.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Well I did say I was comparing them on the level of game design and creativity. I was not comparing them on the level of their developers' programming proficiency.

Then I guess it'll be better to refer to them as Black Isle Studious, no?

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Says you, while 450 ratings give the PC version of Alpha Protocol 7.5/10 on metacritic.

 

Same comparison gives Inquisition 5.8/10... so if Alpha Protocol can barely be called a game, what should the PC version of Inquisition be called?

 

Take your pick. Not a game anyways...

[Morroian]

Obsidian makes great design choices so many that people say that they are better devs then Bioware but they do not count the huge and I mean mountains of bugs their game have, way to big for a finished game so if we take the bad and the good they are not better then the devs at Bioware.

 

This is rather funny given how bug ridden DAI is, just as bug ridden as obsidian games. Obsidian has writers that are just as good as the Bioware writers but in terms of game design Obsidian is light years ahead of Bioware.

 

 

Obsidian mafe Alpha Protocol. It can barely called a game.

 

 

Why not?

[actionhero112]

Combat encourages mindless spamming through the universal goal of lowering short cooldowns or spamming moves with already short cooldowns. 

 

Tactics was dumbed down.

 

Fewer skill trees with more limited build paths.

 

Emphasis on equipment (weapon damage %) rather than character building. 

 

All of these are changes for a more casual audience.

 

This isn't really a complaint, just an observation. 

[coldflame]

Says you, while 450 ratings give the PC version of Alpha Protocol 7.5/10 on metacritic.

 

Same comparison gives Inquisition 5.8/10... so if Alpha Protocol can barely be called a game, what should the PC version of Inquisition be called?

 

A disastrous public relations exercise...

 

If I was an ea suit I'll seriously be looking at the value of the person who was handling the PR for DA:I.

[Morroian]

If I was an ea suit I'll seriously be looking at the value of the person who was handling the PR for DA:I.

 

I don't think David Silverman would be in any position to criticise Bioware PR.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Alpha Protocol is a game with flaws. Just as Inquisition is a game with flaws IMO.

 

You know what's barely a game? Big Rigs.

 

Big Rigs isn't:
1. 2014 year game with a next-gen focus

2. being selling for 60 bucks

3. share the franchise with masterpieces like DA:O.

So you are somewhat out of the point in there.

[Xhaiden]

There are a couple of flaws in your logic.

 

1.  You cannot compare Skryim to Dragon Age even if they are both RPGs .  Skyrim is a solo charatcer experience focussing on exploration and an atmospheric setting.  Dragon Age is a party based tactical experience focussing on plot and complex characters (like Morrigan). 

 

 

2.  The console users do not like a lot of the game either.  I have played with both controller and keyboard, most of the problems are NOT PC specific, so your argument about the pc master race falls short here.

 

3.  In DAO they fixed the UI problem by having a completely different UI for the consoles than they did for PC. Which makes sense because the input is radically different.  Most PC players are up in arms because BIoware was too  lazy to do that.  They just ported over the existing UI as it is. 

 

 

 

Ahem:

 

“Skyrim changed the landscape for role-playing games completely, I mean Oblivion probably sold six million units, basically that range, Skyrim sold 20 million. So that, to some degree, changes everything.”

 

“People age, they typically have less time for games, so it changes their expectations in terms of gameplay segments. It also results in some nostalgia. So they may become even more firm in their attachment to previous features.

 

“I think that’s what we may be seeing here. I don’t know that role-playing games will be necessarily dominant but I do think we may see open-world exploration games being the dominant genre of this generation.”

 

“Now suddenly you have 15 million people that have basically had the first RPG they’ve ever played as Skyrim. They have totally different expectations of what storytelling is, what exploration is, and I think exploration is really where we’ve seen the biggest change.”

 

- Mark Darrah, Executive Producer of Dragon Age on the inspiration for DA:I

 

 

Referencing "a lot" or "most of" or any other complete ass pull of a generalization is pointless. You have no data to back this up and no, these forums are not data. People complaining on forums are a minority of a minority of a given game's user base. Meanwhile, the sales figures for DA:I are great. Lots of people are playing it and enjoying it. Those people don't feel any need to come here and say they are. Just reading negative threads on the forum and using that as a basis is confirmation bias at its finest.

 

"Most" PC users are not "up in arms". Most PC users are not even on these forums to begin with. Your entire argument is centered on these baseless generalizations where you claim to have the authority to speak for the majority of users. You do not. 

[helpthisguyplease]

Well, I did say I was comparing them on the level of game design and creativity. I was not comparing them on the level of their developers' programming proficiency.

 

Alpha Protocol was actually an interesting game "creatively", if you "could" look pass all the horrible bugs.

Imagine the game design and crativity of Obsidian and the skill at programming Bioware has. They will make history in the video game industry.

[KaptinGimpy]

Logging into a BioWare forum for the first time since Neverwinter Nights to side with those expressing disappointment / frustration with the PC version.

 

To provide an analogy to help explain the feelings of many of us longtime BioWare supporters, it's like one of those classic John Hughes movies:  You have a young girl with a great group of close friends, who have all bonded over shared experiences.  But then the girl thinks she has a chance to get in with the popular cheerleaders clique, so she completely changes who she is and abandons her old friends in an effort to be who she thinks the popular kids will like.

 

Under the Drs, BioWare set out to make great roleplaying games trying to capture the feel of classic table top gaming - strong story based adventures with deep tactical combat.  They did a fantastic job at it, and became fantastically successful thanks to those of us who loyally coughed up our hard earned money for every game and expansion pack, and assisted in development through our participation in the BioWare community. BG2 was, and still is, seen as a high water mark for these types of games, and when DA:O was announced and developed, it was supposed to be the "spiritual successor" to BG2, bringing that gameplay into the modern 3D world.  And DA:O succeeded in that promise, being both a commercial success and a success with the long time BioWare community. And we rightly expected the remainder of the trilogy to follow this formula

 

Then a funny thing happened on the way to the forum. . . .

 

First, DA2 was a rush job. But more importantly, it opted for more action focused, less tactical game mechanics.  This increased exponentially with DA:I. The tactical nature has been all but abandoned in favour of action, and the PC interface a clear afterthought to the console development. In no way does it resemble a game worth the description "the spiritual successor to BG2".

 

So here we are, the longtime BioWare supporters, who nurtured the developer from its earliest days to its highest successes, seeing our old friend reneg on its promises to us and act like we barely exist anymore all in an effort to be who it thinks the popular kids will like. That's why, for as much as some who prefer to play action/mmo games with a controller may be completely happy with the end product, so many of us are down right pi**ed off. We wanted the game we were promised from the developer we though we were supporting. 

 

Edit:  

 

“Skyrim changed the landscape for role-playing games completely, I mean Oblivion probably sold six million units, basically that range, Skyrim sold 20 million. So that, to some degree, changes everything.”

 

“People age, they typically have less time for games, so it changes their expectations in terms of gameplay segments. It also results in some nostalgia. So they may become even more firm in their attachment to previous features.

 

“I think that’s what we may be seeing here. I don’t know that role-playing games will be necessarily dominant but I do think we may see open-world exploration games being the dominant genre of this generation.”

 

“Now suddenly you have 15 million people that have basically had the first RPG they’ve ever played as Skyrim. They have totally different expectations of what storytelling is, what exploration is, and I think exploration is really where we’ve seen the biggest change.”

 

- Mark Darrah, Executive Producer of Dragon Age on the inspiration for DA:I

 

This is it exactly!  

 

"We saw another game style that was commercially successful, so rather than having the integrity and belief in our own vision to make our game, we abandoned it and jumped on the bandwagon.  Now give us your money, please."

[wolfhowwl]

Well, I did say I was comparing them on the level of game design and creativity. I was not comparing them on the level of their developers' programming proficiency.

 

Alpha Protocol was actually an interesting game "creatively", if you "could" look pass all the horrible bugs.

 

and the monstrously bad gameplay and idiotic minigames. Of course the game was a commercial nuclear bomba and relatively few people had to put up with those "features."

[SkyKing]

How many of these 8 million plus pc gamers do you think you scammed into getting their pre-order money with this console port?  Can't find the number for console Origin users online, but I'll guess it's nowhere near as many.

 

I know there was a big number of returns back in November (it's impossible to find those numbers), but even with that, it must have been a staggering amount of (dirty) money for a company who used to provide quality pc games. 

 

I hope you enjoy it because, after this (and unless you hire a new team of devs with pc experience to patch this mess of a game) I don't see this trend continuing with your next title.

 

ADD me to this list!!! Bioware isn't getting a penny more out of me.  Fool me once.....  I think the market is ripe for a company to make QUALITY PC games instead of dumbed down moron RPG games for average IQ of 75 where it's only generic fetch and quest and button mashing fighting.  No story, no strategy, nothing like DAO where choices mattered in the game, etc.  This game was a scam. 

[Xhaiden]

So here we are, the longtime BioWare supporters, who nurtured the developer from its earliest days to its highest successes, seeing our old friend reneg on its promises to us and act like we barely exist anymore all in an effort to be who it thinks the popular kids will like. That's why, for as much as some who prefer to play action/mmo games with a controller may be completely happy with the end product, so many of us are down right pi**ed off. We wanted the game we were promised from the developer we though we were supporting. 

 

Speak for yourself.