*shrug*
I paid $209 and think it's worth every cent. (Of course, the cost-per-hour-of-gameplay ratio for me is currently under $1.50, and falling fast. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with more than five hundred hours invested over the next few years, which makes the initial price rather moot.)
not to question your method of placing value on games based on how many hours of playtime you can get from it... but what? does nothing else matter?
not to question your method of placing value on games based on how many hours of playtime you can get from it... but what? does nothing else matter?
It's more that I feel any game I love enough to play for five hundred hours and more is a good investment, even if I paid a lot for it 
.
I'm not usually willing to pay full price for a game unless I'm going to play it right away and expect to spend a lot of time on it. If I'm less sure I'll wait for the inevitable Steam sale.
I know that maybe you mean well, but when was the last time you bought a console that had a mouse, and key board ?
or when was the last time you bought a computer that came with a hand held controler ?
People who use computers spend a lot of extra money to have state of the art, or as near as they can afford state of the art systems, and go to great expense to enjoy there games with the best graphics, and fun factor they can make for them selve's with a mouse, and Key Board, which is what they should expect.
I do not like controlers, I do have a PS3 which gathers dust most of the time, I doubt I will buy a PS4 ( Ever ) and you could not run fast enough to give me one of the new invasive XBox systems.
Yes I do have a controler, I use it for Console emulation on my PC where I expect to use a hand held controler, but I do not expect to use a hand held controler for a PC game.
I guess you mean, everyone should take there PC, and change it out for a Console, why spend any extra for better, let us all drive a Volkswagen. (Peoples Car) Everyone should have the same.
Some games are just designed to be better played with a controller, regardless of the system it's plugged into. Dark Souls 2 is a good example of a game that looks simply amazing on PC, but just plays better with a controller. The reason behind that however is Demons and Dark Souls 1 and 2 have their roots in the console market (specifically PS), so it's combat system was designed for console controllers. I wouldn't imagine that in future Souls titles From Software would just change the combat system to one that favors mouse and keyboard, it just doesn't make sense.
Dragon Age was the exact opposite, being a spiritual sucessor to Baldurs Gate. So it could be argued that Dragon Age theoretically has it's roots with PC systems and that combat should have been approcahed with mouse + kb in mind at the very least and then mapped out to console controllers after the fact. It just feels like BW just decided that they would arbitrarily switch design focus towards a combat system centered on playing with a controller and then figure out how to map it to a mouse and keyboard. There is no reason that both parties can't be satisfied, look no further than DA:O. I bought copies of Origins for cosole and then PC because I wanted to experience the tactical camera on harder playthroughs.
It doesn't matter if I bought a console that came with either controller or keyboard. Sometimes it's a remote. Sometimes it's a camera. Sometimes it's sticks. And sometimes it's a touchpad with buttoms. Mouse and Keyboard is just another controller that either comes with the boxes or doesn't.
A bigger question would be when was the last time I played a PC game with a mouse and keyboard. And the answer is, I only play mouse and keyboard if that's the only option I'm given, because the game itself was design for it. It doesn't matter if consoles use keyboards little to never, because at the end of the day, the majority of those games on those consoles are very designed "around" a controller, just like a game was design around a touch pad or motion controllers, or VR cameras.
PC is different, because like those graphic cards, or core processor, and your choice of controller (mouse and keyboard, because hey, sometimes you just get the Tower, and buy the monitor and keyboard (and controller) separate), you're choosing what you want, and how you want it... as long as it's design to work with what you did. Which is why I used the term "Not made for your custom PC".
It's not made for you. You hate that it's not made around how you play games. Your money and hard work was worthless when it came to getting this game until it's patched or someone mods it.
I can understand your pain, but that doesn't change the fact that it's designed for a controller, and not a specific console or consoles in general. Specifically analog controllers.
You can't blame Bioware for Obsidian being Obsidian.
You cannot ignore the quality of an implementation in a software product. Obisidian is very lacking in that department.
The funny thing is that I understand that everything ships with bugs, but there should be urgency on how critical these bugs are. I have bought obsidian games, and I have been met with game breaking bugs on 3 of those occasions. Game breaking bugs are unacceptable. You can have all this amazing design, but if your implementation is **** on a software product then you will definitely fall flat.
In terms of development, bioware has made prominent engines and now interfaces to numerous web interfaces. From a software standpoint, I would put my money on bioware. Although this is not a quality comparison because Obsidian is a small studio.
I do like obsidian, but until they slow down and fix their process, their games will continue to fall flat in terms of implementation.
*Ahum* I know, this might feel like a cheap excuse - but it's proven that Obsidian often has been screwed over by publishers. KOTOR 2? LucasArts has apparently decided on their own that the time the devs had would be way shorter (by 3 months to half a year if I remember OK). Some miscommunication also happened, and voila. (See the Restoration mod for what was to be about the intended result)
Alpha Protocol? SEGA happened.
Etc. There are few cases where Obsidian was only to blame.
Don't worry, they're shitting it up just as nicely for the consoles as well. Especially the old gens. So, your point is kinda moot really. It's not like it's working for the consoles and ain't working for the PC. It's plainly NOT WORKING across the board.
Old gen consoles (PS3/X360) and PC get hit the hardest, no?
Ahem:
“Skyrim changed the landscape for role-playing games completely, I mean Oblivion probably sold six million units, basically that range, Skyrim sold 20 million. So that, to some degree, changes everything.”“People age, they typically have less time for games, so it changes their expectations in terms of gameplay segments. It also results in some nostalgia. So they may become even more firm in their attachment to previous features.“I think that’s what we may be seeing here. I don’t know that role-playing games will be necessarily dominant but I do think we may see open-world exploration games being the dominant genre of this generation.”“Now suddenly you have 15 million people that have basically had the first RPG they’ve ever played as Skyrim. They have totally different expectations of what storytelling is, what exploration is, and I think exploration is really where we’ve seen the biggest change.”- Mark Darrah, Executive Producer of Dragon Age on the inspiration for DA:IReferencing "a lot" or "most of" or any other complete ass pull of a generalization is pointless. You have no data to back this up and no, these forums are not data. People complaining on forums are a minority of a minority of a given game's user base. Meanwhile, the sales figures for DA:I are great. Lots of people are playing it and enjoying it. Those people don't feel any need to come here and say they are. Just reading negative threads on the forum and using that as a basis is confirmation bias at its finest."Most" PC users are not "up in arms". Most PC users are not even on these forums to begin with. Your entire argument is centered on these baseless generalizations where you claim to have the authority to speak for the majority of users. You do not.
*Ahem* Mind, a lot of PC users never go to the forums of a dev anyway. Or post at another gaming forum to complain for that matter. They just abandon the game.
So claiming the most people are still playing the game is also an generalization you have zero proof of.
While the meanwhile, I know a few people who bought DA:I - and while it's a small group (5), those who play it on the PC have stopped playing (2) in the hope for the patches that fix the control scheme (one of them is one of my housemates, and he really abhors the control scheme even while he's used to playing a lot of hack&slashers, Action-RPGS etc), 1 bought it for the PS3 (as far as I know he stopped playing due to bugs and glitches), 1 for the PS4 and 1 for the XBone. Only those last 2 still actively play a lot, although the one with the PS4 might give up (again, bugs, glitches and the like).
And I'm not the only one. So while such a small group is just a very small sample, put it with more people together who do come to the forums and also have friends who have issues, a pattern starts to exist. Is the group too small to fully say 'a lot' instead of 'a part'? Could be. BTW, sales figures mean **** if the refund policy is effectively non-existent. (That 24 hr window frame is just way too small - or depending on the platform, even that isn't an option. And sure, console players could return it as 'used' - but that's just an insulting small amount of what you get back for the game)
No. Casey Hudson was Bioware Dev, and when EA says Jump - Bioware Asks how high...
You know what's interesting... Out of the original devs from Bioware, not many are left.
But i agree with them, because if i were a dev for Bioware, i would pack my bags and leave for a better company
that isn't ruled by dictatorship and capitalism - i would join a company who had passion for making games.
Look at the people behind Divinity Original Sin, then compare their budget with Dragon Age-II... Original Sin is the best RPG released since DA:O.
Dreez, I wish to point out that ME3 was great - untill the point Hudson and Walters in their haste decided to write the ending themselves. While of course there are some questionable things beforehand depending on your stance, the fact is - Hudson and Walters weren't forced to skip peer review by EA, they chose so themselves. And while the extended cut made things a bit better (and there it is clear peer review did happen with that one again), they just couldn't fix the horror that Hudson and Walters created with the ending unless every part of the ending got reworked - which would take another 3-6 months or so I estimate. Which wasn't really an option for them financially.
I also wish to note something I observed before - about all the leads of Bioware are bad atm at their function of lead. They worked well in their previous role, but when in the position of lead designer/writer/QA testing/you name it the quality of the overall work drops unless they seek and get usefull help and advice from their 'underlings'. I'm not sure why, and what causes it, but if you'd rely only on the leads to produce a general idea and workout of the game, I'm not sure if the game would even approach good, let alone great.
Just my 2 cents.
Guest_TrillClinton_*
*Ahum* I know, this might feel like a cheap excuse - but it's proven that Obsidian often has been screwed over by publishers. KOTOR 2? LucasArts has apparently decided on their own that the time the devs had would be way shorter (by 3 months to half a year if I remember OK). Some miscommunication also happened, and voila. (See the Restoration mod for what was to be about the intended result)
Alpha Protocol? SEGA happened.
Etc. There are few cases where Obsidian was only to blame.
Except, they are clearly aware of their situation. http://www.escapistm...s-a-Bug-Problem
Except, they are clearly aware of their situation. http://www.escapistm...s-a-Bug-Problem
True - they know they have too much bugs in their games. But - often - there is an external reason which multiplies the problem.
dont worry, the engine is "cracked" all the cra**y console s*it will go away 
This post is just stupid in general, but the way you are saying, 'you hate how it's not made for you' and somehow defending Bioware for neglecting the PC platform just confirms your stupidity.
Mouse and Keyboard is just another controller? So umm... Which consoles DO come with mouse and keyboard? And what PC's, even if you don't buy the periphs, AREN'T designed specifically for M&KB?
Which Xbox One came with a PS4 controller? Which Xbox One came with a Wii Mote?
Doesn't matter what the answer is, because it doesn't mean anything.
If a game was designed for Kinect, but not a Move controller, does that mean it's not design for Concoles?
No. It means it was designed for whatever the Xbox One uses, specifically the Kinect, whether you bought the Kinect with the Xbox One or not.
Hell, Smashbros for Wii is designed more for a Gamecube Controller then a Wiimote, and that's sold separately.
Remember lightgun games? Did you get the gun with your Super Nintendo?
Is Streetfighter more preferred with arcade pad then a controller, and that didn't come with the console?
Yes, there's controllers specific to platforms. They're specific controllers for that platform. And some of those controller don't come in the box. That doesn't mean it was designed for console. It really means it's just designed for a specific controller. And it wasn't made for Mouse and Keyboard (which is a controller. You do use it to control your game after all).
This is not the first PC game with a shitty console UI. Hell, New Vegas was as buggy and had as shitty UI.
It's not buggy now, and the UI is way better than what we suffer with DA:I
If only because it's more responsive, can display more than 4 items at a time in inventory and is very resource light. Yes, it's a stupid console UI, but it's nowhere "as shitty" as the DA:I interface. Oh no.
I entirely agree with you, and i am on console ... i have pre-ordered DAI on PS3 and i have buy it on PS4 (70eu+70eu) when i received my PS4 soon ago...
I can't imagine why they have restrained :
- Tactics rows disappeared - it is a shame, it look like if bioware want to transform an very good Tactical RPG/aventure/action game in an action game for teenagers who want to hit something with a sword and which do not care about fighting with finesse ... Because of this the AI of compagnons is stupid (example : it use invisibility directly instead of using it as a defense spell)...
- 8 spells max (if not mapped to controller button AI don't use spell, and us also) - it is a shame
- Spells wheel (spells radiant menu) disappeared -> it is a shame - Spell radiant menu is an essential mechanic in RPG game (on Console and on PC because of the lack of buttons on a controller (manette))
and some other things...
You are probably new to Dragon Age, and you probably never played to Dragon Age Origins, and Dragon Age 2 or never played DAO/DA2 on console, because of the tittle of your topic... DAO DA2 was the same on console and on PC (same functionnality) no difference ...
On Dragon Age origins, we had entirely customizable Tactics rows (with conditional use of spells / items) which permitted to us to entirely customize the comportment of our compagnons , we had the SPELL RADIANT MENU which permited to us to access any spells when we want if we unlocked them...
Shame on u Bioware for having removed those functionality, i hope you will patch this, BECAUSE THIS IS A MAJOR BUG, A MAJOR MISS, A MAJOR ERROR
If you want the return of Radiant spell menu, write something on this topic (petition) (do what it need to maintain this topic up) :
http://forum.bioware...ls-menu-return/
I want to create another petition for the return of tactics rows also... May be i will do...
PS : Old gen (PS3) version of DAI is scandalous :
- 2mn or more to save your game (create a save, or auto-save)
- PS3 entire freeze when the game auto save
- vegetation in area which don't exist (when i came to PS4, i re-discovered area, with flowers, treess, grass..., this don't exist on PS3)
- Sometime the game is lagging..
- Even on PS4 sometime when you kill an enemy, the enemy is dead, but you still heard him talking...
But anyway, even as it, if i hadn't i will buy DAI, because i love Dragon AGE, it is my prefered game mostly DAO, but also DAI...
Not to be rude to the OP, but it was painfully obvious from the get go, that this game was being designed for consoles all along. The devs kept dodging questions from PC users all the time last year, and they barely showed anything from the pc version in the promo videos. It was consoles and controllers all the way.
Brogan, you're a bit naive to think EA doesn't already realize the PC market is swallowing the console market whole.
Don't you think Sony and Microsoft have their hands in DAI's pockets? Come on now.
I haven't bought DA:I and don't plan on doing so.
I've read a lot of reviews and watched a lot of videos and decided, this isn't the game for me. The UI and the fact that you obviously can't effectively use mouse and keyboard to control the game is one of the main issues. The other one is that strategy options seem to have pulled a complete dissapearing act.
What brings me to the point I want to make. Bioware caters to a completely different audience than it did before. Everything is an action based button fest these days. This is less about console vs PC, it's all about catching action hungry youngsters and casuals and hoping that all the other gamers will put up with these decisions. Tagging on multiplayer on every game also points in this direction. It's just a money making machine.
So, yes, obviously the market has completely changed. And all I can do is to not participate in that market, if it's so obvious that the product wouldn't satisfy me.
Swallowing whole? Maybe in the future, but there's no way that any version of DAI wasn't going to sell a large majority of copies on consoles. If Skyrim-PC with mods couldn't break 20%, what's the chance that DAI without mods could?
The PC market is larger than all 5 console platforms combined. You can google it, it's been known for the past two years that PC Gaming had not only eclipsed console gaming, but that PC Gaming hasn't seen the double-digit drops in sales that has been plaguing the console market since 2009, and has seen its revenues rising consistently.
So the real question here is: What is it that causes the PC market to avoid purchasing titles like Skyrim and DAI? Could it be that the PC market voted against the mass marketing-izing of these games?
*Ahem* Mind, a lot of PC users never go to the forums of a dev anyway. Or post at another gaming forum to complain for that matter. They just abandon the game. So claiming the most people are still playing the game is also an generalization you have zero proof of.
And then you followed that with completely anecdotal evidence. If the game was the unmigitated disaster and/or sin against man and nature that some people on the forum make it out to be we would be seeing that backlash through the media as occured with Simcity and AC:Unity. But we are not. We would also be seeing a corrosponding total nose dive in sales. But by all accounts this is the fastest selling and will likely be the best selling Dragon Age to date if it is not already.
So your theory is...people dislike the game enough to stop playing it but not so much that they bother to talk about it? Word of mouth is the ultimate killer and thus far all of the hyberbolic whinging about the game has been confined to a vocal minority on web forums. Meanwhile the game continues to go around garnering GOTY awards from both media outlets and people's choice awards. And no, there is not some vast conspiracy of EA bribing the entire game media for good reviews. The game media is quite willing and able to **** all over EA games at a moment's notice and the reviews from reputable sites have included criticisms towards the games weaknesses and technical issues.
Yet I keep seeing this refrain on the forums here. Sales don't matter. Reviews don't matter. Awards don't matter. Every metric by which we could measure the game's success apparently doesn't matter because it doesn't agree with the opinion of some guys on a web forum somewhere.
So the real question here is: What is it that causes the PC market to avoid purchasing titles like Skyrim and DAI? Could it be that the PC market voted against the mass marketing-izing of these games?
Wait, when did the PC market avoid purchasing Skyrim? Skyrim was Bethesda's best selling PC title of all time. Bethesda titles *thrive* on the PC because of the modding community.
Gatt9? Wow... you're a blast from the past.The PC market is larger than all 5 console platforms combined. You can google it, it's been known for the past two years that PC Gaming had not only eclipsed console gaming, but that PC Gaming hasn't seen the double-digit drops in sales that has been plaguing the console market since 2009, and has seen its revenues rising consistently.
So the real question here is: What is it that causes the PC market to avoid purchasing titles like Skyrim and DAI? Could it be that the PC market voted against the mass marketing-izing of these games?
/sigh
We all know it's true.
The reason why DAI still remains a dumbed down version of what Bioware is capable of producing, is simply because of their pandering to the console market.
Bioware may still well desire to recreate their personal passion for the RPG genre, but with EA holding the reins, we can only hope for lackluster console sales to lead them by their noses...
/sigh
We all know it's true.
The reason why DAI still remains a dumbed down version of what Bioware is capable of producing, is simply because of their pandering to the console market.
Bioware may still well desire to recreate their personal passion for the RPG genre, but with EA holding the reins, we can only hope for lackluster console sales to lead them by their noses...
the decision to use frostbite can't have been based on the console demographic... that's far too easy a scopegoat and people should stop jumping on that bandwagon
The PC market is larger than all 5 console platforms combined. You can google it, it's been known for the past two years that PC Gaming had not only eclipsed console gaming, but that PC Gaming hasn't seen the double-digit drops in sales that has been plaguing the console market since 2009, and has seen its revenues rising consistently.
So the real question here is: What is it that causes the PC market to avoid purchasing titles like Skyrim and DAI? Could it be that the PC market voted against the mass marketing-izing of these games?
Pretty much, despite there being more PCs in someone's house then all the consoles on the market, a lot of people who own pcs don't play games, or their pcs aren't build to runs a lot of them. Those PCs are really meant for work only, or casual browsing on the net. And a lot of that is being replaced with Tablets. Believes it or not, a lot of families have dropped having any labtops or PCs, and instead just use tablets. The PC market is also the market that has the highest pirate of games by digital download, without a real solution to stop it (unlike a console, where DRM is more focused, and a higher chance of being detected on it).
Whereas the console market is a dedicated market to video games, where you have actual numbers to count on. You know how many people own them. You know how many bought games similar to yours. You know the hardware they're running on. You know what controllers they use. You know how many are connected online. And you know they have a harder time or less likely to illegally obtain your products (though some do pirate, and fine ways around being detected).
And when the budget of these games are putting people's jobs on the line, you have to pick the market that has the most support for you, money wise.
How many of these 8 million plus pc gamers do you think you scammed into getting their pre-order money with this console port? Can't find the number for console Origin users online, but I'll guess it's nowhere near as many.
Considering only 7% of gamers play RPGs, probably not nearly as many as you think.
Furthermore the PC version of the game is actually regarded as pretty decent on other sites, so once again the number of angry people aren't nearly as many as you wish.
The sale figures of Inquisition were supposed to nosedive after ME3 and DA2 and all that's happening is sales are increasing. Do you think that if you make enough nonsense doom and gloom prediction, one of them have to come true?
The PC market is larger than all 5 console platforms combined. You can google it,
And PC market is absolutely dominated by Online Multiplayer Battle Arena and MMOs in the developed world. The actual market for most games is larger on the consoles.
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