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A few words for DA noobs who think they "know" what's what


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#26
Jeremiah12LGeek

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If a class is potent on their own then chances are they will bring more to a team. People "care" because picking weaker classes can make your team lose on the run. That's not to say that more niche classes cannot be picked - but I would never, as an example, pick Katari for a Perilous run. Nor would I pick an Alchemist or Reaver, and I'd only pick an Assassin at level 20 with all the necessary passives to do well. 

 

Choosing bad classes can directly make the team lose. If you make the team lose because you wanted to test a bad class, that makes you selfish. In any team game it isn't just about your enjoyment sadly - it's the same principle as a MOBA. You pick whichever class the team needs that you think fits the scenario. Succeeding is its own form of entertainment for many people, which is why so many people care about what specific classes they play. 

 

I get the sentiment - and on lower difficulties I'm always open to experimenters [even though I usually have to pick up their slack] but that type of attitude simply doesn't work in competitive teams on higher difficulties where there's less room for error. 

 

I don't know if this applies to DA:I, yet, but so far, it seems to: all the classes are viable, in the right hands.

 

In ME 3, people used to say classes like the Shadow, Volus, Vorcha, or even just Engineers, in general, were too weak to play Platinum. You wouldn't find many people left who think that way, because the way to play those kits effectively on Platinum became well established. It just took most people longer to figure out how to make them effective on the higher difficulties because the path to success was not as obvious as it was on kits like the TGI or GI.

 

Some of them may require balance changes to be truly effective, but if you're convinced a kit can't work on a higher difficulty, I think the solution is to seek out someone who has made it work for them, and ask them what they do, rather than assume that no one else has found a way, either.

 

(Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm talking about.)


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#27
Trickshaw

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The only class that's completely worthless in Perilous is Arcane Warrior.



...



LMAO

I'm just kidding they're totally faceroll. WOOO!!

#28
veramis

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Jeremiah, what you said is a decent rule of thumb. But the primary issue we see in da3mp balance is the same that plagues most games with warriors, rogues, and mages, that become more and more apparent as difficulty increases and people understand the game mechanics better. Namely that difficulty increase usually takes the form of harder hitting enemies and more enemies, where the crowd control, aoe dps, and heals (or barrier) of mages outstripe the tankability and single target/small aoe attacks of warriors and rogues. Imo the nail in the coffin is the small aoe of the insanely powerful barrier wuich is much harder to cast and refresh on the entire team if composed of both melees and ranged. An elementalists/keeper team standing around each other spamming barrier nonstop is almost invincible and they can chain cc and quickly kill anything.

#29
Storm_Changer

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Literally just saw someone try and play Katari in Perilous, they got downed twice in less than a minute and cost us the game as the other player was ignoring enemies to revive them.

 

Hardly scientific, but it proves a point if I'm honest. 



#30
J. Peterman

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Literally just saw someone try and play Katari in Perilous, they got downed twice in less than a minute and cost us the game as the other player was ignoring enemies to revive them.

 

Hardly scientific, but it proves a point if I'm honest. 

 

And I've seen really badly played AWs on threatening, making the AW bad too.


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#31
Trickshaw

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And I've seen really badly played AWs on threatening, making the AW bad too.

The difference being, at least in my experience, you have to be mentally catatonic or playing on DSL to suck at AW.

Whereas I've yet to see any Katari (or Reaver) video or actual player in game (perilous) make me go, "Daaaamn! Maybe they don't suck?"

#32
J. Peterman

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The difference being, at least in my experience, you have to be mentally catatonic or playing on DSL to suck at AW.

Whereas I've yet to see any Katari (or Reaver) video or actual player in game (perilous) make me go, "Daaaamn! Maybe they don't suck?"

 

There's a big gap between that and "I saw a Katari on perilous die twice in the first minute once, therefore, they suck!!".


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#33
Trickshaw

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There's a big gap between that and "I saw a Katari on perilous die twice in the first minute once, therefore, they suck!!".


Oh yeah, I can totally agree with that.

#34
Saboteur-6

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This isn't a competitive game mode though, it's a co-op. I'm just way more laid back about team setups than 90% of BSN apparently. Only thing I get miffed over is not having the 3 class types for doors and people who don't try and use teamwork.

I'd rather have a competent teammate who sticks with the team, knows how to use their class, and has good situational awareness than worry about them playing "low tier" classes. You guys place waaaaaay too much emphasis on the class kits and not nearly enough on the individual player.
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#35
Trickshaw

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I got berated for opening and clearing a treasure room instead of backing up the try-hard Katari running 4 rooms ahead.

He still finished 2nd. I lol'd.
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#36
LanceCucumber

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Any class can be viable on any level...like me3mp. It really comes down to the person. Can poor play ruin a match absolutely, and I feel right now that is more to blame than a character itself
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#37
gay_wardens

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you tell us theres no specific way to play after telling us exactly how to play each class

 

 

that's because what you are observing is a paradox. it's like saying "there is no order because there is chaos." Yes there is no specific way to SKILL INTO characters because the game has already been designed FOR you around the parameters that define what specifically each character is capable of.

 

for example you might as well say "ooooo you said do whatever u want but i cant use shield wall on my archer, wtfux bro"

 

Flask of Frost is insanely useful for shutting down dangerous enemies like most chest guardians. Otherwise I mostly play her as a trap and poison cloud provider, then stealth behind strong enemies occupied by the tank (hopefully).

 

That does not work on Perilous. At all. Just warning you. Unless you literally run in circles dodging the Arcane Horror's projectiles.

 

Followed by...
 


If a class is potent on their own then chances are they will bring more to a team. People "care" because picking weaker classes can make your team lose on the run. That's not to say that more niche classes cannot be picked - but I would never, as an example, pick Katari for a Perilous run. Nor would I pick an Alchemist or Reaver, and I'd only pick an Assassin at level 20 with all the necessary passives to do well. 

 

Choosing bad classes can directly make the team lose. If you make the team lose because you wanted to test a bad class, that makes you selfish. In any team game it isn't just about your enjoyment sadly - it's the same principle as a MOBA. You pick whichever class the team needs that you think fits the scenario. Succeeding is its own form of entertainment for many people, which is why so many people care about what specific classes they play. 

 

I get the sentiment - and on lower difficulties I'm always open to experimenters [even though I usually have to pick up their slack] but that type of attitude simply doesn't work in competitive teams on higher difficulties where there's less room for error. 

 

It doesn't make the team lose. It makes meat heads who only want to use DPS classes that are incapable of team support, lose. For example I connected to a Perilous run today, hoping matchmaking would give me a team I could run Necromancer with. There was no warrior so I picked Reaver, and I figured since one person had a mic it would turn out OK. Then when the game loaded I told them how things should go - the archer should draw aggro to a choke point, the keeper casts barrier on all four of us and the elementalist and I will be able to hit the whole mob at once. Instead they forced me to charge in like a chicken with my head cut off and die because I had to follow their zerg tactics, even though I was the last one in the room I still got killed because they refused to make a plan. Then the only guy with a mic decided to be a condescending ass and I left the party. It's like first of all, I'm running warrior for them because they refused to; more importantly you can't just run around doing whatever you want on Perilous without communicating with your team, you can't just solo mobs in perilous and abandon your teammates because if they die the enemy gets stronger and will kill the whole party. I didn't stick around to see what would happen because I knew it would be a wipe, I mean when you've got a Keeper that won't prioritize putting barrier on the warrior - regardless of whether it's a Reaver or not - there's something innately wrong there.

 

Yeah, so if you don't want me to use something or you're going to be a selfish person who doesn't play as part of a team, at least put a bloody microphone on and tell me so I don't waste my time. And I'll either leave the party or switch to whatever class fits the party. But don't start thinking there's no other way to run Perilous than your way, because it's not true. I've had Kataris stay alive to beat the final boss because I was a good Keeper and kept barrier on them, as well as the other classes.

 

 

This isn't a competitive game mode though, it's a co-op. I'm just way more laid back about team setups than 90% of BSN apparently. Only thing I get miffed over is not having the 3 class types for doors and people who don't try and use teamwork.

I'd rather have a competent teammate who sticks with the team, knows how to use their class, and has good situational awareness than worry about them playing "low tier" classes. You guys place waaaaaay too much emphasis on the class kits and not nearly enough on the individual player.

 

This so much.

 

I got berated for opening and clearing a treasure room instead of backing up the try-hard Katari running 4 rooms ahead.

He still finished 2nd. I lol'd.

 

 

If he did that on Perilous, and he's on PS4, I want his gamertag. The man is a hero.



#38
Uhleejun

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Yeah but... Alchemist really does suck, admit it.



#39
BelnickISMYNICKNAME

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then see to it that the armor rating is 95 and not 0, you can be in the front smashing when you have 8 archers standing 10 meters away shooting arrows into you

right now archer and k-e are best "warriors" in multiplayer



#40
Guest_Mortiel_*

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then see to it that the armor rating is 95 and not 0, you can be in the front smashing when you have 8 archers standing 10 meters away shooting arrows into you

right now archer and k-e are best "warriors" in multiplayer

 

I lol'd at this.

 

The Archer is "safe" and has an easy learning curve. Anyone can play it. The Knight-Enchanter build (Fade Shield) of the Arcane Warrior is much the same, but with a healthy dose of boring along with it.

You want real fun in Perilous? Bring a Necromancer or Assassin. They have a little harder learning curve (the Assassin's more so than the Necromancer), but I don't hear people getting pumped up from a kill streak quite as much as those two classes.



#41
BelnickISMYNICKNAME

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I lol'd at this.

 

The Archer is "safe" and has an easy learning curve. Anyone can play it. The Knight-Enchanter build (Fade Shield) of the Arcane Warrior is much the same, but with a healthy dose of boring along with it.

You want real fun in Perilous? Bring a Necromancer or Assassin. They have a little harder learning curve (the Assassin's more so than the Necromancer), but I don't hear people getting pumped up from a kill streak quite as much as those two classes.

nec is so boring
ass is pretty fun, especially with the abilities on my daggers



#42
Guest_Mortiel_*

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nec is so boring
ass is pretty fun, especially with the abilities on my daggers

 

To each their own.

 

Regardless, there is nothing less true than saying the Archer and Arcane Warrior are the best two classes.



#43
BelnickISMYNICKNAME

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To each their own.

 

Regardless, there is nothing less true than saying the Archer and Arcane Warrior are the best two classes.

not much feels better when the entire wave of enemies come in a line and you go thru them all with a longshot doing 1800 on first and then just continue to increase:D
 

Uhleejun

whut?(why is my text bold when I have not selected bold and selecting and unselcting does not work)

alchemist I find funny, they have one of the most OP skills in the game, no cooldown for several seconds, you can spam hundreds of granades :P

 

 



#44
SofaJockey

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Yeah but... Alchemist really does suck, admit it.

 

Alchemist is my favourite at the moment.

 

(Stealthy Flank Attack + Mines build)

 

I won't be soloing in a hurry, but I'm reliably and safely killing those enemies.



#45
Miclotov

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This isn't a competitive game mode though, it's a co-op. I'm just way more laid back about team setups than 90% of BSN apparently. Only thing I get miffed over is not having the 3 class types for doors and people who don't try and use teamwork.

I'd rather have a competent teammate who sticks with the team, knows how to use their class, and has good situational awareness than worry about them playing "low tier" classes. You guys place waaaaaay too much emphasis on the class kits and not nearly enough on the individual player.

 

People who tell others how to play/think usually don't like to be told how to play/think. :3


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#46
Mofojokers

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People who tell others how to play/think usually don't like to be told how to play/think. :3

Yup met a few people like this even had one tell me how to play a arcane warrior o the irony in it lol.

#47
Guest_Mortiel_*

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People who tell others how to play/think usually don't like to be told how to play/think. :3

 

STOP TELLING ME WHAT TO THINK!!!

 

Wait, that wasn't you... that was Bubbles the Dolphin... Nevermiiind.



#48
BraveLToaster

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I won't argue that some classes shouldn't be played, but don't fool yourself into thinking they're balanced.  They're not on equal footing with the others, even with a team built around them.

 

The way I see it, most of Alchemist's problems stem from Twin Fangs being terribly imprecise, sometimes only hitting once, sometimes inexplicably missing, on top of being too slow to work with Flask of Fire, and Shadow Strike bugging out and not reactivating stealth.  I'd take Hunter for more reliable stealth, and they don't even have I Was Never Here.  Assassin suffers here as well, but to a lesser extent.

 

Reaver needs Rampage fixed and they're set.  Risky, but very high damage.

 

Katari...I don't know, I think they're trying to be somewhere with less damage than Reaver, ess tanky than Legionnaire, but with more CC and movement to offset.  Not a fan of melee CC when you've got Ele and Keeper doing it from Range and providing team tankiness with Barrier (and personal tankiness with Death Siphon in Ele's case).

 

That said, they can all work, even on Perilous, but I don't blame people for not wanting to trust randoms in pugs with characters that often screw up.



#49
Trickshaw

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I can count on one hand how many Assassins/Alchemists I've seen in Perilous not spend 1/2 their time in game on their back or in the fade. That's not to say there aren't good Ass/Alc players out there, I just haven't personally seen one.

Conversely I can count on one hand how many times I've failed on Perilous with an AW and Keeper in the group. There are some character combos that are simply ridiculously powerful. To pretend that all classes are equal is idealistic to the point of naivety.

I'd happily take an AW/Keeper/Lego/Hunter team into a Perilous match every day all day. You're not failing with that combo unless your team is mentally catatonic.

#50
Jeremiah12LGeek

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To pretend that all classes are equal is idealistic to the point of naivety.

 

Who is saying that they're all equal?