80 réponses à ce sujet

[roadrunnerNM]

It's been a while since I played Origins, but when you do Leliana's personal quest ...

Spoiler

You confront Leliana's former mentor, Marjolaine, who says something like "You see a simple girl, a friend" when you look at Leliana, implying there's much about Leliana you don't know.

 

My warden romanced Leliana, and would weep to see how hardened Leliana turns out at the end of DA:I.

[RobRam10]

It's been a while since I played Origins, but when you do Leliana's personal quest ...

Spoiler

You confront Leliana's former mentor, Marjolaine, who says something like "You see a simple girl, a friend" when you look at Leliana, implying there's much about Leliana you don't know.

 

My warden romanced Leliana, and would weep to see how hardened Leliana turns out at the end of DA:I.

You can unhardened her in the game.

[BHRamsay]

Considering what the inquisition is up against I'm glad the Darth Leilana option is there ...as Loghain Anora and so many others are quick to remind us. In these dark times, we do what we must for the greater good... whatever the cost

[Obadiah]

It's been a while since I played Origins, but when you do Leliana's personal quest ...

Spoiler

You confront Leliana's former mentor, Marjolaine, who says something like "You see a simple girl, a friend" when you look at Leliana, implying there's much about Leliana you don't know.

 
My warden romanced Leliana, and would weep to see how hardened Leliana turns out at the end of DA:I.

Yup. Leliana has a conversation with the Warden as well afterwards about not turning into Marjolaine.

You can unhardened her in the game.

Yeah, but its a trick. One wrong or missed conversation choice and... hardened!

[Lulupab]

Hardened Leliana is so much better than softened. The latter is unreal and its totally ridiculous if you make her divine, its impossible to do the reforms she want to do peacefully.

[Master Warder Z_]

Hardened Leliana is so much better than softened. The latter is unreal and its totally ridiculous if you make her divine, its impossible to do the reforms she want to do peacefully.

And it's impossible by force.

But Bioware dictates what happens.

It's their universe.

[Snook]

Not always. In my game she's cooled down a bit.

 

And judging by Cole's mind-probing dialogue about it afterward, that's where she's happiest. She doesn't take the hardened path easy, evidently.

[Lady Artifice]

Not always. In my game she's cooled down a bit.

 

And judging by Cole's mind-probing dialogue about it afterward, that's where she's happiest. She doesn't take the hardened path easy, evidently.

 

That's a relief. This thread was making me worried.

[Lulupab]

And it's impossible by force.

But Bioware dictates what happens.

It's their universe.

 

Its not "force". Leliana plays "the game" while hardened. She has support from Inquisition which pretty much saved the world and has a lot of agents and spies. She knows who is going to do what and if they will oppose her. Anyone conspiring to do anything will find a dagger across their throat or a huge scandal used as blackmail against them. Its very real and possible.

[Shadow Fox]

Its not "force". Leliana plays "the game" while hardened. She has support from Inquisition which pretty much saved the world and has a lot of agents and spies. She knows who is going to do what and if they will oppose her. Anyone conspiring to do anything will find a dagger across their throat or a huge scandal used as blackmail against them. Its very real and possible.

Yeah because that totally worked for Meredith.

[Fizzie Panda]

It's been a while since I played Origins, but when you do Leliana's personal quest ...

Spoiler

You confront Leliana's former mentor, Marjolaine, who says something like "You see a simple girl, a friend" when you look at Leliana, implying there's much about Leliana you don't know.

 

My warden romanced Leliana, and would weep to see how hardened Leliana turns out at the end of DA:I.

So there's definitely an option where Leliana

Spoiler

didn't kill Sister Natalie/ unhardened herself.

 

In order to get that option (apparently)

Spoiler

you have to
1. Convince Leliana to spare a traitor agent in Haven.
2. Convince Leliana that saving her agents in Haven was the right thing to do. (Conversation takes place in Skyhold)

[Lulupab]

Yeah because that totally worked for Meredith.

The fact that you make this comparison makes you're argument irrelevant. Meredith has NOTHING in common with hardened Leliana. That B|tch was mentally ill and crazy on top of that she had the confirmed effects of Lyrium aka paranoid, obsessed and demented. And she had no agents or spies, and she had nothing closely related to intrigue and political blackmail. She was all like BLOOOOOOOOOD MAGIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!! KILL KILL KILL, ANNULL ANNULL.

[Shadow Fox]

The fact that you make this comparison makes you're argument irrelevant. Meredith has NOTHING in common with hardened Leliana. That B|tch was mentally ill and crazy on top of that she had the confirmed effects of Lyrium aka paranoid, obsessed and demented. And she had no agents or spies, and she had nothing closely related to intrigue and political blackmail. She was all like BLOOOOOOOOOD MAGIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!! KILL KILL KILL, ANNULL ANNULL.

And Hardened Leliana's a psychopath who enjoys murder and threatening small children.

 

Except for y'know being the defacto ruler of Kirkwall for over 20 years and having the City and Circle in a vice grip with the support of her Templar army.

 

And just like Leliana she ruled through intimidation and murder and it ended with her city being torn apart and her killed by her own weapon.

[Hazegurl]

My anti chantry spiteful Quizzy just put hardened Leliana on the sunburst throne.    They wanted a Divine, well now they got one, in all her crazy glory. He'll keep her alive for a while before allowing her to run her inevitable course towards an assassin's blade.

[Master Warder Z_]

My anti chantry spiteful Quizzy just put hardened Leliana on the sunburst throne. They wanted a Divine, well now they got one, in all her crazy glory. He'll keep her alive for a while before allowing her to run her inevitable course towards an assassin's blade.

I'm picturing a fairly bloody end for her.

[Lulupab]

Headcanon much?. The epilogue mentions unity is maintained regardless of anything. That's more than said for Vivienne who brings yet another mage rebellion.

 

Leliana is right about one thing, the city elves are literally wasted and they are more than useful. In the initial fight the emerald knights were better than chevaliers. It was only with the help of mages and Templars in an exalted march that the tide was turned in Orlais' favor. Loghain used city elves and he kicked Chevaliers from Ferelden cities one by one with the help of these elves. Briala brought (or was about to) strongest human nation in south to its knees with elf servants and how they have ears in every noble's home.

 

Hardened Leliana is needed, there are filth in Thedas that needs to be cleansed, with fire and blood. Destruction is a part of creation.

[Char]

Unhardened Leliana is lovely. I clearly must play a bit of a softie myself because I picked all the 'unhardening' options without knowing. It brings out the early passion, faith and belief in goodness and inclusivity of the Leli I temember from DA:O. She wants the chantry to br a force for positivity and hope, not dogma and tradition. As an atheist I may not be the best qualified person to comment on religious figures, but she's the kind I'd prefer to have.

[Master Warder Z_]

Headcanon much?. The epilogue mentions unity is maintained regardless of anything.

Because you can force people to bow forever to your whim.

Cite any number of dictatorships, Monarchs and What have you.

She'll keep her head for a time, but the head canon would be your own.

Human nature doesn't work that way.

Also Chevaliers killed Emerald knights in combat if you just ignored all the monuments in the graves.

[KaiserShep]

Marjolaine's being right doesn't make her less dead

[Master Warder Z_]

Marjolaine's being right doesn't make her less dead

<.< I let her live.

[Monica21]

Leliana remains one of my favorite DA characters, and I'm glad I have the options to keep her "unhardened." When you talk to her in Skyhold after the scene in the Chantry she says something like, "I almost forgot myself." And I was glad that both my Warden and my Inquisitor had such an impact on who she is.

[Lulupab]

Because you can force people to bow forever to your whim.

Cite any number of dictatorships, Monarchs and What have you.

She'll keep her head for a time, but the head canon would be your own.

Human nature doesn't work that way.

Also Chevaliers killed Emerald knights in combat if you just ignored all the monuments in the graves.

 

But she is leading Thedas where its needs to be lead. Extremists and zealost will be taken care of and by the time she is done only fractions of them will remian, at best. I can cite many dictatorships but I can also cite ones that actually changed the history of their country forever in a good way. The Tudors and Queen Victoria is nice example. They applied many reforms in favor of nation of England and absolutely crushed all rebellions by religious and extreme people who reistsed change. After almost a thousand year England knew peace and art and literature prospered. That's what Leliana will do, I have zero doubts about it. 

 

Also, the Dales lost the war, duh there will be Emerald knight graves. During the first battle without the exalted march Orlais lost to Dales, that's actually why an exalted march was called in a panic. Elves are useful, looking from a completely none-biased view, whgy would anyone waste resources by piling them up in alienages. 

[AWTEW]

 I found softening Lelliana to be..unrealistic, and sort of jarring tbh.

[Obadiah]

I'd be interested in the story of non-hardened Leliana as Divine pulling off all of the reforms. It wouldn't be AS bloody as hardened Leliana, but, one can imagine disinformation, distractions, betrayals, and assassinations (less assassinations than hardened Leliana) in use to get nobles to fall in line.

[jlb524]

Yeah, she was right.

Ten hours into the Hinterlands and I can confirm that Ferelden does indeed smell like wet dog.