52 réponses à ce sujet

[MadDemiurg]

The reason is simple. Removal of healing means that for a party to survive multiple consequent encounters all of them need to be toned down so players can get through with little to no health loss. That means that instead of fighting for their lives in every combat players are faced with multiple pushover encounters that require zero tactics to beat.

 

Unlimited healing is also not the best decision though (unless its much weaker than damaging abilities, not much stronger like it was in DA:O). This easily makes your party unkillable.

 

What imo should've been is limited # of potions/healing spells per encounter. And you needing all of them to survive a battle on nightmare. Alternatively, no healing spells, potions and barrier at all, but health fully restored between encounters.

[Lunatic Lace]

I don't think I'd mind the limited potions so much if I were able to control tactics a bit so my party members don't need to heal just because they did something stupid, or if there was a way to upgrade the number of potion slots a little beyond what's available in the game now. I kind of like the feeling that potions are precious, but it could have been implemented better.

[Lux]

It's annoying having to get back to camp after every other combat. I don't like it as it's not entertaining for those that want to keep on exploring.

[setrus86]

I just craft weapons and such that gives "heal on kill"...who needs health potions from being worn down by multiple minor encounters? Let the enemy be health potions instead!

 

Generally pretty pleased with how it works though, healing made a healing mage such a given, now I can use that slot for something else.

 

In the end, I find this working pretty well in the open world, though some of the linear quests can get hectic if one's not careful. 

[SeanMurphy2]

I thought it made the game fun when exploring areas.

 

I don't use quick travel. So it feels tense exploring a dungeon or big open world area for the first time. Then having to fight your way back to camp to replenish and heal.

 

Though for the main story line quests. I think there should be an equip potion station prior to the boss fight. I read that a few people got caught out with low potions and health.

[Lux]

Then having to fight your way back to camp to replenish and heal.

 

 

Uh, you can teleport to camps. If you're doing this by choice then you have a lot more patience than me.

[MadDemiurg]

I think a lot of the posters did not get my original idea.

 

My main issue with this is laughable difficulty of encounters in the game and I see healing system changes as one of the main reasons that influenced the encounter design in such way.

[Lux]

I think a lot of the posters did not get my original idea.

 

My main issue with this is laughable difficulty of encounters in the game and I see healing system changes as one of the main reasons that influenced the encounter design in such way.

 

I'm more interested in the bottom line experience. 

 

You have a poor companion AI, a vastly limited tactics menu, and instead of spamming healing spells you're spamming barrier and guard. Micro-management was increased and a less satisfying combat imperative is in place. That's what I see in the current combat design. 

[Flaming-Soul]

It was issue during the first 10 hours. After that, I steamrolled over everyone except the dragon.

[MadDemiurg]

I'm more interested in the bottom line experience. 

 

You have a poor companion AI, a vastly limited tactics menu, and instead of spamming healing spells you're spamming barrier and guard. Micro-management was increased and a less satisfying combat imperative is in place. That's what I see in the current combat design. 

Barrier and guard do not exactly equal healing, because if you're experiencing something near to party wipe often you'll run out of healing potions. That's why all encounters are done in a way they can barely scratch you with minimal tactics involved. Resulting combat experience is pretty bad, and has multiple other issues like AI you've mentioned, but that's another topic.

It was issue during the first 10 hours. After that, I steamrolled over everyone except the dragon.

It's like you didn't even read anything except the title

[JCFR]

With the way combat works, it feels as if they stole this potion-system from dark souls.

 

I for my part, could have lived with this no-healingspell- for-mages-thing, if they had added a healing/support-based class like clerics or something. But this way, the Barrier-spell get's to be a must-have for Mages, stealth (and "easy to miss") a must-have for rogues and war cry a must-have for warriors. 

Just plain annoying.

[Darkly Tranquil]

Generally pretty pleased with how it works though, healing made a healing mage such a given, now I can use that slot for something else.

 

 

How is having to take a Barrier bot any better than having to take a Heal bot? If the goal was to make taking a particular class not feel mandatory, it failed badly.

[fireproof_boots]

The reason is simple. Removal of healing means that for a party to survive multiple consequent encounters all of them need to be toned down so players can get through with little to no health loss. That means that instead of fighting for their lives in every combat players are faced with multiple pushover encounters that require zero tactics to beat.

 

Unlimited healing is also not the best decision though (unless its much weaker than damaging abilities, not much stronger like it was in DA:O). This easily makes your party unkillable.

 

What imo should've been is limited # of potions/healing spells per encounter. And you needing all of them to survive a battle on nightmare. Alternatively, no healing spells, potions and barrier at all, but health fully restored between encounters.

 

It did change the pace of combat a lot.  After I beat DA:I, I've been replaying Origins (I hadn't played it in a while) and each battle definitely feels more intense.  I mean, the game still gets too easy after a while, but the enemies definitely pack more of a punch.  Every time you see an enemy mage you have that "OK, kill that fucker, otherwise he will just wipe my whole party" thought, which is fun.  

 

They also entirely got rid of tactics though, and gave us a tac cam that is so bad its annoying to use, so maybe the easier encounters are better, I would get really frustrated with this combat system and DA:O style encounters.

[MadDemiurg]

It did change the pace of combat a lot.  After I beat DA:I, I've been replaying Origins (I hadn't played it in a while) and each battle definitely feels more intense.  I mean, the game still gets too easy after a while, but the enemies definitely pack more of a punch.  Every time you see an enemy mage you have that "OK, kill that fucker, otherwise he will just wipe my whole party" thought, which is fun.  

 

They also entirely got rid of tactics though, and gave us a tac cam that is so bad its annoying to use, so maybe the easier encounters are better, I would get really frustrated with this combat system and DA:O style encounters.

That's exactly what I was talking about.

 

Also agreed on poor AI and controls points. Bumping the difficulty of combat up at this state of controls would likely make it frustrating.

 

Overall the combat system suffers from the following imo

• Poor balance and scaling
• Poor AI/tactics
• Poor controls
• Poor encounter design

Poor AI & controls kina work against poor balance and encounter design to add more difficulty . This is not how enjoyable combat system should work though.

[Falcon084]

On nightmare difficulty it makes the game impossible.

[StrangeStrategy]

Uh, are you sure about that? Maybe you're playing on Casual or something, but the game certainly isn't easy until you get the perfect team/build/items...

 

Your solution does not help: It means every single encounter is going to be the same difficulty, it can't exceed the (estimated) max number of potions/spells because then you'd be without resources. And since those resources would be replenished at the end of a fight, you actually make each random encounter so much easier (Imagine if after every fight, potions replenished instead of needing travelling to last checkpoint/camp)

 

You really didn't think that through. As for your other solution: Certain fights are impossible without Barrier/Guard and they'd have to do huge rebalancing to compensate for the lack of damage mitigation by buffing health/armor, removing guard/barrier generating abilities, completely changing KE (You monster, how could you?!) etc.

[Elhanan]

On nightmare difficulty it makes the game impossible.

Difficult indeed, but far from impossible. I recommend playing the prior games in the series on Hard or Nightmare as practice; helped this old man to get the first campaign completed on NM, though I did skip the Dragons until last (have two more to battle).

[Falcon084]

Difficult indeed, but far from impossible. I recommend playing the prior games in the series on Hard or Nightmare as practice; helped this old man to get the first campaign completed on NM, though I did skip the Dragons until last (have two more to battle).

I've done them both on nightmare. Just can't do this one it seems.

[MadDemiurg]

 

Uh, are you sure about that? Maybe you're playing on Casual or something, but the game certainly isn't easy until you get the perfect team/build/items...

 

Your solution does not help: It means every single encounter is going to be the same difficulty, it can't exceed the (estimated) max number of potions/spells because then you'd be without resources. And since those resources would be replenished at the end of a fight, you actually make each random encounter so much easier (Imagine if after every fight, potions replenished instead of needing travelling to last checkpoint/camp)

 

You really didn't think that through. As for your other solution: Certain fights are impossible without Barrier/Guard and they'd have to do huge rebalancing to compensate for the lack of damage mitigation by buffing health/armor, removing guard/barrier generating abilities, completely changing KE (You monster, how could you?!) etc.

 

I've beaten the game on Nightmare and I've beaten it on Nightmare up to Skyhold solo as a mage. So i kinda know what I'm talking about.

 

It would make each random encounter easier if replenishing potions after each encounter was the only change. However it would allow for bumping up the difficulty of each encounter much more. As for longer "boss" fights, there can be multiple solutions here. A pretty straightforward one is more usages of your per encounter items/spells in boss fights. Or multi phase boss fights where you're reset between phases. So I did think this through.

 

I'm not suggesting this change as a balance change for this game, it's too late and would require complete redesign, I'm merely pointing out why I think this is a bad design choice.

[NoForgiveness]

Uh... no. I am against the no healing thing but not because of anything you said and I don't think that's the solution.

[MadDemiurg]

Uh... no. I am against the no healing thing but not because of anything you said and I don't think that's the solution.

Very nice way to disapprove while contributing nothing to the topic . Maybe care to elaborate why you think no healing is bad and why my solution does not work?

[Elhanan]

I've done them both on nightmare. Just can't do this one it seems.

If you are having trouble learning the new controls, re-mapping the Keys to more familiar ones helped me, as well as some practice in the tutorial areas. As far as changes in healing, try re-setting Behavior on NPC's to decrease Mana/ Stamina use to 30%, and not to take potions until 20%. This leaves more for the Inq. For Tactics, perhaps setting Defensive actions to Preferred status will help (eg; abilities that add Guard for Warriors, keep Rogues away from melee, and Mages in Barriers).

As I have only played ranged Inquisitors thus far, I am considering allowing the AI to control my future Warriors; controlling from the rear with a NPC. Thus far, Cassandra is quite durable, though not as much as Aveline was in DA2. If the AI can keep her alive for that long, my Inq should do fairly well, at least with S&S.

Good luck!

[Gambit458]

The no healing spells but was probably one of the dumbest things they did. I never felt like I had to "rely" on my healing spells with the way Bioware said we did as to why they took them out. I'm replaying Origins right now and sure I use healing spells when I need to but it does have a cooldown and things can get chaotic if, I think someone already mentioned, you're fighting an enemy mage for ex. If Bio didn't like it then they could've just increased the cooldown on a healing spell instead of taking it out entirely. Instead of healing spells, I feel like we rely on barrier instead. Sure you don't "have" to have it but it makes encounters easier.  I just feel like it took away some identity from my mages. There's no real "support" or "healing" mage because everyone's pretty much DPS aside from barrier. 

[NoForgiveness]

Very nice way to disapprove while contributing nothing to the topic . Maybe care to elaborate why you think no healing is bad and why my solution does not work?

/sigh... fine. My problem with it is that at the end of the day they just traded heal spamming for barrier spamming. There really is nothing gained. So the solution is simple. Bring healing back and allow mages to have either that or barrier. Also bw needs to stop being so racist against healers, it's a legitimate role that people do like.

[Calders]

In many ways I think the bigger problem is that you don't heal at the end of combat.  What this means is that you go into casual combats trying to avoid taking any damage, so you always have to spam barrier and war cry.  This is far worse than healing spells that you would only use when you were getting low on life.  It means that mages don't use, much variety in spells because they have to cast barrier so much.  Which in turn makes combat less tactical and more repetitive.